7H Team for Foundry (and maybe more)

Plutoman

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2010

E/

I'd been using the DoA thread, but I wasn't getting much feedback. Not many people seem to be looking at it, so I figured.. Eh, may as well make a new thread. This cleared up through the first quest in the foundry, smoothly I might add, and I didn't continue further because of a 27sec lag spike that wiped me. My brother got on SC2, my internet's not good enough for that o.o



Here's my setup. As the ER Prot, I generally can keep the majority of damage off of the heroes, while the ST takes any excess when bonds go down. I micro Shared Burden onto mobs, which is particularly effective in mitigating damage and allowing interrupts. Not something I'm gonna remove; and for suggestions of stolen speed/arcane conundrum, they are only anti-caster - Shared Burden is also effective mitigation against large groups of Dervish's, Warrior's, etc.

It might be considered anti-synergy with TWE/Clumsiness, but they still get off attacks frequently. It just means half as many attacks = more attacks that are failed and deal damage as a percentage of the total. It's extremely effective against healer's, the Margonite Ki's that are annoying, and it stops Rage titans dead when they try to pull off Churning Earth with a 4 sec cast.

This also seems to me to suggest the power of the Mesmers - I couldn't get the same results running anything else, I had to substitute Necro's in. I dislike the increased casting/recharge times, but I can lose the extra energy management for hex/enchantment removal. I'd love to have Weapon of Quickening somewhere in here, but that's unlikely to fit.

This should be usable for any Caster class, just take an AoE damage build of your choice, and add in an ER Prot over a N/Me, most likely the E-Surge. Rangers, Dervish's, Paragons, and Warriors should use an AoE damage with SY (which honestly is probably more effective then this, as you get AoE damage, plus unstrippable protection). Untested, of course though.

The third room, you have to cross and flag in the corner of the room, and pull mobs. If you keep fairly close together (you have a little bit of room to move, but watch other patrols) you can keep with one mob at a time. I pulled a second, accidentally, when the first was almost dead, but I still managed fine. Just needs care.

Any input?

tuweky

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Oct 2010

Netherlands

A/

Got 2 questions:

1. Is this for Normal Mode or Hard Mode?

2. Why Splinter Weapon?

HigherMinion

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

N/

Don't bother with both Protective Bond and Shelter...
Need them; with just shelter, the ST rit runs out of energy trying to maintain all the spirits, or they go down before ST recharges.

With just bonds, they'll get stripped at some point by Despair Titans (chillblains) and Greater Dream Riders (Mirror Of Disenchantment), or you run out of energy trying to prevent spikes from multiple Rages.

I've been testing this for the past week, this is the first genuinely successful build that managed to keep up easily against the area. Key word, easily.

Also, gloom is relatively easy. If just doing gloom, there's many combinations that work. The set of builds I've put up should manage a FR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braxton619 View Post
I don't really care if you think RHG is easy. A lot of my friends who has good heroes still can't do it. Thats why I put the info up. No offense intended! Note I said 'relatively'. Compared to the Foundry, it's a cakewalk. Compared to the rest of NF, it's a pain in the.. yeah. Just working on Foundry in particular; the rest of them are easier to handle. Gloom is easiest with a tank to hold aggro at the front, or minions. Something such as 'Stand Your Ground!', SY, 'They're on Fire!', bonds of any kinds, will mitigate the damage long enough as long as you have some control of where the enemies are going.

Ideally, with the builds I put up, in the gloom; let the Order of the Whispers take the brunt of the first enemies, and use Shared Burden mercilessly to keep them in one spot. For extra safety, have the SoS put spirits up a bit ahead. Generally, all the casters/rangers will ball up together and go down fast. Once they're down, the rest goes down shortly.

Outside of the cave, clear the patrols before doing too much else. There's several strategies for the boss, too, that are effective.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

Way too much defense to be honest. You're running ER Ele yourself with Protective Bond, and yet every character other than the ESurge has some kind of defense to go along with it. Why bother? It's NM. Add more offense. Drop the ST Rit and go for SoGM, drop the UA healer and go for UA smite, switch out your build to whatever damage build you want and if you're worried you'll die switch out of one the Necros for a healer of some kind. Switch out the other Necro as well and put in another damage dealer of some kind - MM, Ranger, Para, whatever. Having so many 2s casts without Fast Casting is a death sentence to damage output.

I could give you micro build suggestions (e.g. take out Empathy for Mistrust), but I think at this point macro problems are more significant.

@Braxton619 - you posted a build for Ravenheart Gloom in a thread on Foundry? @_@

Plutoman

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2010

E/

Problem with that is.. Bonds get stripped. Easily. Mirror of Disenchantment, Chillblains (both of these can remove bonds from the entire party), massive AoE from Rage Titans. An ER Ele is not invulnerability, it's massive damage reduction for sure, but if several churning earth's go off, I can't hold up all the bonds. Two shockwaves can shoot it in the hole, too.

I've ran with an SoGM, and the team goes down. Fast. It wasn't until I added the ST Rit that it all went smoothly. I tried a damage build, but the ST rit didn't hold up enough.

It may be NM, but there's a lot of damage to go around in the foundry. The UA Healer + Rit healer are for sure needed. I still have deaths every so often, but with UA it's smooth and DP goes away fast.

I do agree with the Necro's - but I'm not entirely sure what to do about them. I need the blinds and damage from ineptitude; but I might swap the E-Surge. There's not a lot of viability from the Necro lineup for AoE armor-ignoring damage though. SS won't work with any of this. If you have input on the damaging portion, I'm welcome to it. The backline is solid and it has to hold up through a lot, and I'd rather have a bit extra and guarantee success than chance a bit less healing/prot and lose every other time (or more, particularly trying to use your suggestion of 2 healers and no prot - that wouldn't make it through the second room). The two Necro's can use work though. Ideally I'd want two more mesmers and the run would be easy.

Ah, to sum it up; the defense is needed. The idea was two prot, two healers, 4 AoE damagers. As far as AoE goes, mesmer is king on heroes. Might run a splinter barrage ranger as a hero, but I don't exactly trust melee heroes - same problem as minions. Aggro control. Have you done the foundry thoroughly here? As far as the damage differences go, there's little difference between HM and NM. Two levels of difference, that's it. Attack speeds, casting times, etc, are all increased, but there's little difference in damage.

Bear in mind I'm not using cons.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

It's because of the Mirror of Disenchant / Chillblains that you don't run the Burning Speed + Protective Bond template. It's because of Shockwave and Churning Earth that you flag heroes apart when fighting. The SoGM Rit does something like 90 DPS, way more than that of other heroes. I would not drop him, ever.

Yes I've done Foundry thoroughly, I even did it once in HM and posted the screenshot here on Guru. I firmly believe that the amount of defense you're bringing is overkill, but if you think the defense is needed, go right ahead.

Plutoman

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2010

E/

That build uses SY - what about something not using it? A caster profession?

It also uses an extra mesmer. Without extra mesmer firepower, or using SY, I don't see a lot of easy ways to manage.

I'll try a few other builds. This seems effective enough, but I'm open to trying other uses and ideas. If using cons it seems to manage HM.

I'm also wanting something to use for HM, but NM, no consets, and good speed is best. This should be something that can clear a full run, but anything that can manage foundry can usually manage a full run anyways.

I'll try your suggestions, and I'll make a few modifications of my own, and keep trying various ways. Ideally I want a full run NM in <2 hours. A full run HM in <2 hours, with consets.

I'll come back with my input after I've seen how all of it works together.. Yay, more testing.

Plutoman

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2010

E/

I gave it a shot as an SF ele + Paragon with various methods of damage, along with 'they're on fire' and 'stand your ground'. I also swapped in the SoGM Rit, and a UA Smiter. Failed, hardcore. Could barely go through the first room, wiped fast on the second.

Changed to a UA Healer, same result. Didn't change a thing. Swapped back in the ST Rit, and it went.. Well, though I had frequent deaths. Mostly manageable with UA. I went through the entirety of the first foundry quest in 17 minutes, rushing it. I'd see it as a viable approach of spreading burning + the para, along with an ST rit.

However, I beat the time at 16 minutes with my starting builds, with only one death the entire time. I bond only the healers, the Shared Burden Mes, and the ST Rit. So Shelter lasts much longer covering only the others in the group. It moves fast, and I can tank anything except Anguish titans - I cover ER with enough enchants to last through chillblains and well, mirror doesn't matter when it hits burning speed. If enchants go down, the ST Rit can more than cover it for the time it takes to start putting them back up. Hardest time is with large aggro's of Rage titans in small spaces; was more than manageable though.

If someone wants to try to beat that time? No consets. I'll record my team's time for a full foundry run soon. I'll see if I can manage a full DoA run with it.

I'm still open to more input, and I'm willing to try suggestions and test times out. I don't mean any offense to you, Jeydra, but as of all my times going through it are just showing me I need it. Feel free to assist in improving more, or try out my builds as a comparison I appreciate the input given albeit it not working as well as hoped.

aga

aga

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2009

England

A/

^ didn't manage to complete foundry with those builds?

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

No indeed. I got impatient, aggro'ed two mobs at the same time and had 3 people die on a Death Pact chain, including both Xandra and Livia. That was bad play. Why?

aga

aga

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2009

England

A/

It's not bad play . Getting impatient is the key to success, my style of play is very aggressive, I often pull 2 or more groups (even in DoA), or at the least let my heroes finish off the last few while I go off and pull another group, which is why I often run more defensive builds. I doubt I could manage such an offensive build as that.

greenough

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2009

A/E

is that the whole thing in 10 or just the first 4 rooms?

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

It's just the first four rooms. The entire area in 10 minutes is probably impossible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aga
View Post
It's not bad play . Getting impatient is the key to success, my style of play is very aggressive, I often pull 2 or more groups (even in DoA), or at the least let my heroes finish off the last few while I go off and pull another group, which is why I often run more defensive builds. I doubt I could manage such an offensive build as that. Lol, I thought the logical conclusion from "my style of play is very aggressive" would be "I love to run highly offensive builds".

I admit, running almost unadulterated offense like this one is very risky. Shove the build a little too hard and you'll see the red bars fall precipitously. Shove it just a little harder and you'll cause the Death Pact chain wipes that happened to me. The player who uses such a build must be prepared to concentrate, micro and aggro, because a small mistake can mean the end. In areas like DoA that's rather distressing, although it doesn't stop the build from returning fast times like this one.

I want to say I do this all the time, but to be honest, I usually do not play at this level. I often prefer to Leeroy straight from one group to the next. Someday I hope to find a build that can output as much (or nearly as much) damage as this one and still have everything else that I want. It might not be possible sadly, but I'll keep trying to fine-tune things.

In the meantime, I'll say that if two semi-healers, one Panic, one Aegis and one Prot Spirit suffice, then certainly combinations like two semi-healers, one Panic, one PI, one Aegis, one Prot Spirit and one "Stand Your Ground!" should be more than enough to allow some leeway to make mistakes and still live to tell the tale. 7 defensive characters, especially with one ER Ele maintaining Protective Bond, is simply way overkill.

greenough

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2009

A/E

just went and tried after i saw 10 in the first 4, first try and 0 dp.

FengShuiDove

FengShuiDove

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2007

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA]

A/

I didn't keep the build, but I should have. I cleared out the rooms in about 8 minutes the other day, and, with extremely careful aggro, managed to clear the entire Foundry. Wiped on the second rescue... got cocky and didn't put up spirits beforehand.

With consumables and a summon, I probably could have easily (grain of salt) cleared it. I'll do my best to reconstruct the build and post it.

Previously, I didn't think it was doable without extreme knowledge and skill. Now, I'm starting to think it's possible. I swear to you, one way or another, I will get Foundry done with 7 heroes

Plutoman

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2010

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by aga View Post
It's not bad play . Getting impatient is the key to success, my style of play is very aggressive, I often pull 2 or more groups (even in DoA), or at the least let my heroes finish off the last few while I go off and pull another group, which is why I often run more defensive builds. I doubt I could manage such an offensive build as that.
I do this; this is where Jeydra and I differ. I can't manage that below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeydra View Post
It's just the first four rooms. The entire area in 10 minutes is probably impossible.



Lol, I thought the logical conclusion from "my style of play is very aggressive" would be "I love to run highly offensive builds".

I admit, running almost unadulterated offense like this one is very risky. Shove the build a little too hard and you'll see the red bars fall precipitously. Shove it just a little harder and you'll cause the Death Pact chain wipes that happened to me. The player who uses such a build must be prepared to concentrate, micro and aggro, because a small mistake can mean the end. In areas like DoA that's rather distressing, although it doesn't stop the build from returning fast times like this one.

I want to say I do this all the time, but to be honest, I usually do not play at this level. I often prefer to Leeroy straight from one group to the next. Someday I hope to find a build that can output as much (or nearly as much) damage as this one and still have everything else that I want. It might not be possible sadly, but I'll keep trying to fine-tune things.

In the meantime, I'll say that if two semi-healers, one Panic, one Aegis and one Prot Spirit suffice, then certainly combinations like two semi-healers, one Panic, one PI, one Aegis, one Prot Spirit and one "Stand Your Ground!" should be more than enough to allow some leeway to make mistakes and still live to tell the tale. 7 defensive characters, especially with one ER Ele maintaining Protective Bond, is simply way overkill. I don't mind micro; in fact, I've found it extremely useful. There's just a limit to how much I'll do, and how careful I'll be. I'm not entirely sure.. And I'm perfectly fine with accepting that you're more talented, but then again, most people (you know guru's an exception because only players really into the game will come here >_>) can't even get through the DoA with heroes anyways at all, so I'm content with myself and how well I play.

How did you complete the second room? That's where I see issues.. The Terrorwebs don't get interrupted, and when they get lower on health, the team goes down fast.

Greenough has a similar style, two healers, ER prot, and SY, instead of my two healers, ST Rit, and bonds. Same effect. I'll try and beat my own time, it seems like maybe I just play a bit slower. I wonder if foundry <30mins is possible.

I also wish I had access to multiple mesmers; and what is that necro build there?

I'm glad to see a lot of input and thought into this.

Plutoman

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2010

E/

SY affects not the damage output, but it means you can move faster and with less stress, particularly when dealing with multiple spawns in a room; I usually have to pull them into me.

greenough

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2009

A/E

if your a caster, run one of these builds and either add a st rit with union shelter and maybe either some heals or offensive spirits while replacing splinter on other rit or keep splinter on other rit and just add defensive para and its pretty much same thing.

aga

aga

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2009

England

A/

It's not the same thing, get on a caster and try it yourself.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

Is this a race now? Because I just got one 9-minute screenshot, wondering if I should post it.

I think greenough can probably cut the UA healer and go for UA Smiter or something with Strength of Honour, but that's up to him.

Plutoman

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2010

E/

Not necessarily a race, though I'd say speed IS an issue. I've kinda looked at viability for others to run. Though, on second thought, I also might like to just leave it at those who can get it themselves. Prices will stay higher that way <_<

I got 11 minutes, didn't screen though. I found a bit of luck with a ele damage build based around intensity and etc. Was good and fast but unreliable.

Jeydra; how do you manage the torturewebs and dream riders? By going for damage I pretty much guarantee deaths from them. I'll also sometimes have issues with the third spawns in the fourth room, with the rage/despair/dementia titans. I'd love to go for more damage but they tend to kill anything that moves, and the mesmer interrupts just don't seem to be reliable enough to shut them down. 3 hits and the team's gone (which is 4 secs between two, a group of 4 can take the group down in 2 secs flat).

Valeria

Valeria

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Germany

PaRe

W/

Finally made it. It took me only 13 mins for the 4 rooms but 1:20 to clear the rest (got wiped once by a group of 6 titans. fortunately had a resurrection scroll THIS time)
I have to say that the groups of 6 titans are probably the hardest part. I usually have to run away a lot to separate these groups after the new titans spawn.
rescuing the frogotten ones is easy if you spread your party and set some spirits beforehand. (got wiped the first time by dryders because my team was bunched together)
The final boss was no problem if you try to hit them hard to kill one or two and then run away as soon as you take lots of damage.

I had two mesmers, two rits, one healer, a smite healer, one earth ele with wards and I was using a hundred blades warrior

A little tanking and careful luring is also importand.

Now i need to beat Mallyx and i have no clue how that can be done. I haven't tried this for years and just remember some old teleportation tricks to get most of the team outside of the citadel.

aga

aga

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2009

England

A/

Yes the group of 6 titans can be troublesome if you're unprepared. But I find the group of 6 anguishes much harder if I don't get a perfect pull, since they can steal UA or any other res from your heroes, which does get extremely annoying, since they only res in their first form. Meaning each time 1 gets ressed you have to kill 4 more...So those 6 orignal titans can easily turn in 8/9 or even 10+.

FengShuiDove

FengShuiDove

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2007

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA]

A/

10 minute rooms, 47 minute clear . I did cheat a little and use a summon only for Foundry Breakout. Got a Celestial Rat. Definitely could have done it without, I just wanted to be a pinch safer.





I'm usually a big fan of the N/Mo Prot Bomber Necro, but micro'ing your ST is absolutely essential on the Captain during Foundry Breakout. The 3rd Mesmer is probably not essential either, I ran Keystone for damage only. In fact, there's probably plenty of better builds for damage on that 7th hero.

EDIT: I also spent around 5 minutes DC'ed (you'll notice there aren't enough red dots in the screens), so realistically it's about 40 minutes.