How important is hex/condition removal to you?

I've been looking over a lot of the team-style builds on PvXwiki, along with discussions here on Guru about 7-hero teams people are putting together. A lot of the teams I see people talking about using to "faceroll" areas post-7-hero-update involve things like 3 discord or sabway, panic, prot-boon, etc. Pretty standard builds overall.

But when I go look at those builds, I notice a distinct lack of specific hex/condition removal on the bars. Entire team builds without either.

I've tried a few of the builds, even had two interrupt mesmers (panic & ineptitude or tease or PI) and a tease-prot monk... hexes and conditions still get through periodically (hello Sacnoth Valley).

Personally, I don't like going out without something like Extinguish & Hex Eater somewhere on my heroes... I feel kind of nekkid. LOL

What about you? How important is it to you to have some sort of dedicated hex/condition removal on a bar somewhere? Do you ever find yourself sacrificing something to bring it along? Do you feel it's a "must have" for you, especially in HM? Or can you take it or leave it?

Aside from hex/condition removal (which is obviously mine LOL), is there a specific skill that is on your "must be somewhere on my team every time I go out into the world" list, and why is it on your list?

Usually I'll have some Hex or Condition remover along just in case, if I know that the area is largely Hexes I'll bring more removers and likewise if the area is heavy in conditions.

For condition removal I just use Foul Feast and Mend Body and Soul on the resto necro, more isn't really necessary.

For hex removal I change my builds depending on the area. I usually just bring 1 hex removal, but for heavier areas I switch some skill around (e.g. Aegis for Convert Hexes on ER Prot, Shatter Hex on Panic). Shatter Hex will probably main-bar after the next update (from 15e to 10e).

I only bring hex/cond removal condition when it can shutdown my general team setup.

Anything else just gets mopped up by the heals.

Fortunately for us, PvE hexes base off of health loss; which can easily be mitigated with the healers in your party, which should be many.

So no, I don't bring hex removal. I find AoE ele spells or massive physical spikes more threatening than a hex. Unless that hex was Spirit Shackles pre-nerf (they should have just called it "If you are melee, you lose the game").

Hex removal not so important, but I do carry minor condition removal. Usually dismiss condition. :]

what i've seen in many random groups is that almost no monk bring a condition removal and only one hex removal. They just simply use pvx general UA or HB build with.

What i'm trying to explain is that in certain cases having hex removals is vital. Having conditions removal is vital also. The case of blindness of the imbagon in a very hard area is one of the most typical example to how the entire group wipe cos monk have no condition removal.

I always bring 2 hex removal and one condition removal at least, and this way should everyone do.

Mainly just to get rid of Dazed, Cripple and Arcane Conundrum / Migraine / Frustration. Not very common. I try to have a copy of each at least, but if I can't have them I won't worry too much.

I use them, I have around 4 or 5 condition removal/heal spells. Also have about 3 hex removal spells. Why? Because I'm one of the very very few who play a melee, and one of the even more few who play a Warrior and 85% of the enemies I face have some sort of hex spell that's intent is to annoy the hell out of me and one hex removal just doesn't do the job.

I think that most of those people, who bother posting their team builds, probably enjoy making and discussing their builds, but not so much playing them. These team builds are a good starting point or even a source of inspiration, but they all need to be tweaked for specific circumstances.

I generally bring a little hex and condition removal (Remove Hex, Pure Was Li Ming at 3 Restoration, the 2 spotless spells), and I add more (Hex Eater Signet, Revealed Hex, Mend Body and Soul, Dismiss Condition) if I think it's necessary depending on the area. I rarely feel like I'm sacrificing something in order to bring these skills because I'm generally happy with my damage output and wouldn't care if it's just a little lower.

Also melee, and hexes and conditions can really mess things up. Sure, my heroes can probaby outheal them...but why waste the time doing that when it can just be removed? I generally carry two hex removals and two conditions removals, sometimes more depending on the area.

With 7-heroes, I usually have one or more conditions remover and one or more hex remover. Why? Because I can afford to with so many available skill slots in the team.

It also depends on what profession you are playing. There are more shutdown hexes and conditions against melee classes than caster classes in general.

In the past, with only 3 heroes, many builds dont bring hex removers. Partly because Mhenlo usually carries one hex remover, and they bring heals to out heal the other hexes to save skill slots. There is no need to do that now with 7 heroes. It is cheaper to just remove the hexes than to have to out-heal them.

the only time in pve that i bring hex removal is when in frostmaws and i can use revealed hex on the monster skills and get an instant recharge.

I never leave home without mend condition if i use any build with protection points.

Yup, my main is a warrior and I bring a whole bunch of both hex and condition removal otherwise cripple/blind/blurred vision/snare hexes fill me with rage.

How important cleaning is to me depends on what profession I'm using and what areas I'll be playing in. It's perfectly fine to not include any cleaning if you're in an area where they can be ignored, but obviously not when there's blind spam or Blurred Vision all over the place while on a physical. Convert Hexes, Hex Eater Signet, Foul Feast etc. This topic feels pointless.

I never leave an out post without hex and condition removal. Para hero has party wide hex and condition removal. Mes has hex eater signet and monk has extinguish. Add a few prot skills and you're away.

Let's talk conditions first. For a lot of team setups, conditions barely slow them down. Physical damage dealers need to worry principally about blind, and occasionally cripple. Blind is nasty shutdown, but cripple mostly just slows the beat down. Its a well know fact that physical dmg dealers have more counters than spell-casters, which are mostly hurt by daze. Lots of team setups can deal with all other conditions via superior healing (in some case one ER infuser can handle this solo). If you look at some of the most commonly used builds (Sabway, Spiritway, Discordway) the often use rit healing skills, which involve conditional condition removal. So while specific condition removal skills aren't always used, the ability to remove conditions is often present.

As for hexes, it gets a bit different depending on what class you're playing. Melee often needs to worry about hex snares from Water Elementalists and mesmers. Adrenaline based bars are strongly affected by adrenaline denial mesmer hexes. Finally there are hexes which increase the chance of missing, or reduce damage done by attacks. All of these can (potentially) put a damper on physical damage (and some work for physical damage in general). So either such a player must bring some decent hex removal, or bring ways of getting around said hexes. One common approach is to bring spirit turrets, which can not be hexed. Another is to bring mesmers to interrupt the hexes (while also mitigating damage). Other hexes can usually be countered again by superior healing. For the caster classes most hexes don't pose a serious threat anyway, except in less commonly occurring situations (an example being an AoE snare combined with something like meteor shower).

When I play a melee class, I often bring either a Mo/Me or a Me/Mo with divert hexes, which is certainly one of the best hex removal skills in the game, just to help keep the snares off. That being ssid, if I plan my team well, I can rely on the heroes for the damage and not even have to worry about those snares. When I play a caster class (which is most often mesmer or rit) I tend to bring at most 2 hex removal skills (usually just one) because I don't feel that they impact me much.

AI skill choice is bad at any real synergy with hexes or conditions. Usually its nothing more than a mild inconvenience and some damage.

AI is even worse at choosing which hexes or conditions to remove, so even if you brought them on heroes it really wouldn't do much.

*uses Melandru's Resilience*
BRING ON THE CONDITIONS!

One or two copies of Mend Body & Soul
Smite Hex on Oggy.

Usually hex/cond removal can be ignored in favor of direct healing (especially with the new Asuran Scan), but some areas might warrant some empathic removal/divert hexes.

Pretty much this. The answer is it depends on which conditions/hexes the monsters have, and how much impact they have on my team. Are we talking about dazed or backfire on the casters or blind or blurred vision on the physicals or -10 degen on the entire party, or are we talking about bleeding, parasitic bond, lamentation, and mirrored stance? I'll also add this: Even when things like blind, crippled, and ethereal burden aren't happening at levels that really require removal, removing them can make the game go so much faster that it's worth doing.

[edit: I guess I'll add one more thing:
There really is no excuse not to run great condition removal, simply because it's so easy to do. Foul Feast has a fast recharge removes every condition from the target and moves it to a character who probably doesn't care much about conditions. Pair it with Infuse Condition on a minion guy and it's basically flat out removal. Pair it with Plague Sending on a curse guy and it's an offensive weapon. MBS still removes conditions at 0 spec. Even if your party has no resto, stick it on a SoS at 0 spec and it's still going to remove ~4 conditions for 5e on a fast recharge. So, in sum, you can be spending 1-3 non-elite skillslots out of your party's 64 slots and pretty much take care of condition removal. There's really no reason not to.

Hexes, on the other hand, are a bit of a problem since getting good levels of removal requires a bunch of slots or an elite slot.]

In PvE? I don't think about it. I let the heroes red bar push through hexes and for conditions well there removal is a nice bonus of my rit healing. I'd love some hex removal to remove that empathy some areas carry but it's not particularly important and enemies cast it on enemies more than they do on me.

So hex removal isn't important, and condition removal is, but I don't notice that I'm packing it, it's just on a skill I take to red bar push.

Mmmm...does this all mean the power and durations of hexes and conditions should be increased on hard mode? Just generating HP in industrial quantities should not be the perfect solution for every problem me thinks.

I had my fill of the "UA and HB or gtfo" mentality

Doesn't mend body and soul on the standard discords have mass condition removal?

I also bring smite hex and condition on my strength of honor buffer.

Degen doesn't do anything unless it is party wide, even then... so poison, disease and bleeding are out. Burning is iffy.
Cripple is annoying but stuff doesn't run for ever like it can in PvP so not that annoying. I mean, enemies don't keep running. Eventually they stop and I blow them up. Or they don't run at all.
Deep wound is temporary gray bar. meh
Blind, daze and euh, that's it. Those are the most annoying and most dangerous. But that just means that I'll remember beforehand that the area has blind or daze and I'll bring something. Don't remember daze ever being a problem though.

Nah,just blind, that gets smited... smitten, what? and actually deals more damage that way to the enemy. I also run a 20% blind reduction shield on my warrior


Hexes, meh. I know what SS looks like, I know what empathy looks like, I hardly ever see diversion, anything else I need to look out for?
I know what it looks like and I stop autoattacking.
Snare hexes are annoying and don't get smitified unless you're at the target already, or at least it feels that way. But that small delay doesn't do much. See my cripple comment.

PvE: Mend Body and Soul (x2), I simply ignore hexes on most areas, sometimes I bring a spotless mind or even an expel hexes para if the area is HEAVY on hexes.

PvP: can't live whithout dismiss + veil

No hexes are hell spawn enough as it is.

Well, all the monsters have higher attributes so they pretty much are.

If I'm playing a physical character, hex/condition removal is very important to me.

If I'm playing a caster, I almost couldn't care less.

The only dangerous conditions/hexes you might come across are few and far between for the most part. Some areas you absolutely need heavy removal to survive. Most of the time, you do just fine without much removal. 7 heroes is nice because I usually have room for empathic removal in somewhere. That skill alone is more than enough most of the time. I just stick it on a paragon hero along with other support stuff like gfte and fallback.

Conditions: I have 2 chars with extinguish since you don't need to put any points in the attribute for it be effective (especially good if your party is diseased) - other than that mend body and soul will take care of most of the conditions.

Hexes: I have 2 mesmers with Hex Eater Signet that takes care of most of the hexes.

I usually take 2 of each: 1 single target quick recharge removal and either one condition/hex stack removal or a party hex/condition removal.

Depends a bit on my team setup, but I usualy bring 2/3 copies of Mend Body and Soul with Divert Hexes and/or Cure Hex on my minion bomber or dedicated prot.

Rangers without Antidote signet (or mending touch but nobody uses it in PvE)... can't remove blind easily.

Hexes are usually lame because they come in bulk if multiple mobs use them. Unless you're pulling them off in bulk (deny hexes) it will just be a spot heal (cure hex). For Deep Freeze/ Ice spikes you want Hex eater signet. Hexbreaker aria doesn't work when the paragon using it doesn't get hexremoved.

90% of PUG monks run UA/HB and they don't run dismiss or any form of condition removal. Draw conditions is nice, but it's not even 1/2 as effective as foul feast.

The only conditions with heroes you care about are daze and weakness/blind on your ranger/paragons ...seeing how melee is also affected by cripple and melee heroes are bad. Poison/disease/bleed/burning and to a lesser extent, deep wound/cracked armor = lol redbar anyway (as long as you have prots).

Annoying hexes: Migraine, Stolen Speed, Diversion , Confusing Images,Blurred Vision/Calculated Risk/Reckless Haste, Arcane Conundrum, Soothing Images, Spirit Shackles/Clumsiness/Ineptitude/Wandering Eye (Paragons/Rangers), Arcane Languor,Atrophy, Ether Lord, Insidious Parasite, Panic, Mistrust, Power Flux/Power Leech, Shared Burden,
* Stuff like Faintheartedness, Shadow of Fear, Meekness are less annoying than miss %

Annoying but not strong on their own: Deep Freeze/Ice Spikes, Mind Freeze, Shard Storm, Freezing Gust, Backfire (prots), Barbs, Binding Chains, Crippling Anguish, Ignorance on non-Keystone signet builds, Scourge Healing/Soul Bind (when you're a UA and heal 5 people with this using Divine healing... your HP dips heavily), Shroud of Silence on casters (lasts a very short time)

Most hexes do damage or degen.

In PVE, I rarely, if ever, bring hex/condition removals. In majority of the game, there just aren't enough dangerous hexes/conditions to hurt my team overall.

If i'm solo with just h/h(or now just heros) i don't bother with hex or condition removal as it's a waste of a skill slot (except a few rare places). My team usually never gets attacked because foes are dead before they can cast anything worthwhile on us(thats what the minion walls are for). In the rare instances where minions are thin on the ground then i might chuck remove hex or foulfeast on my monk and necro.

When running around with PUG's or people who aren't familiar with the way my team plays then i will add something to cover the eventuality.

I find hex and condition removal very, very important. Especially in the elite areas such as Foundry (using as a prime example). I run a typical imbagon (SY, TntF, ToF), and Foundry holds many counters to this (Ulcerous Lungs, with its ridiculous length) and despite having 3-4 hex removals placed throughout the team build, I still find myself hexed with it after 20 seconds (or more, if they re-cast). It is also quite troublesome to target self and micro the hex removal. Therefore, Divert Hexes, to the rescue!

Note: Calling "I am hexed with.." could trigger some hero ai to remove it -_-

my roj team has smites for hexs and conditions.

Its important enough to make sure I bring a few. Nothing sucks more than taking out one of my melees and getting hex and condition stacked to the point your useless(you may live but youll be useless). I usually carry 2-3 of each type of removal at any given time, depending on the situation. You may be thinking 4-6 skill slots for hex/condition removal is excessive. But out of 64 skill slots, its a small amount and they often have added benefits associated.

The condition removal is easy to fit into most builds, cheap, and often beneficial in other ways. Mend Body and Soul and Foul Feast are perfect examples. MBaS is also a powerful heal. Foul Feast also gives a little health and energy back if your a necro. And they can both clean a stack of conditions and have a low recharge.

Hex removal is a little trickier to fit into a team build. However, Smite Hex is easy to fit onto your RoJ/Smiter and/or SoH. Shatter Hex will fit onto my Domination Heroes when the energy cost is dropped to 10. When using an ER Prot, I like to take Convert Hexes. It can strip a stack of hexes, and they have no issues with the 15 energy. At the very least, Shatter and/or Smite Hex are worth taking because they have AoE armor ignoring damage.

EDIT:
As of lately, I never go anywhere w/o at least one copy of MBaS, Foul Feast, Smite Hex, and Convert Hexes.

I just read through this thread after posting and realized I basically retyped alot of what other people have said. Thats what I get for not reading first.

In most areas of PvE it's just not important. I run all casters (and never play melee anymore), so tanking is done by spirits, minions and/or protted up casters. I adjust builds for different areas: if hexes/condis are problems, I drop in a hex removal on the messes, and maybe an empathic removal on the communing rt (who can also go shelter/union for some areas). I myself bring hex/condi removal as it warrants: otherwise, mend body and soul is more than enough.

Most areas in PvE just don't have that many areas that REALLY screw up casters (mobs of CoF-spamming wind rinders who rend enchants... ugh!). So, it's easier to ignore hexes and condis and just powerheal over them (MBaS is pretty imba too, with an SoS around). Hexes? Most are anti-melee, so can be ignored. Migraine and arcane conundrum are rare enough anyway.

I am a bit pvp orientated. Most builds are hybrid monk builds (prot + heal) that has around the same roll fullfilling as in RA (prot, heal, remove hex + conditions, e-management).
This build can compete with any teambuild whatever the area throws at you. 1-2 hex removals is fine. If you vanquish an area like Morostov tail (near vasburg armory) like today its handy to bring in extra hex removal (blurred, etc).