Ranger skill revamp - on the way?

Rangers are widely acknowledged as being in need of a skill buff at the very least, and ideally a complete re-working like the Dervish got.

Even in this last game update multiple professions saw skill balancing, but the ranger? Not one skill change. Ranger's been my main for as long as GW has been out and they're in a sad state of affairs. Remember how long it took just to get bringing a pet along only requiring one skill slot?

Fingers are crossed and I'm hopeful that a complete revamp of the ranger is in the works. Here is what I would love to see:

1. Quick traps - Like Dervish flash enchantments, rangers could really use traps that are faster to activate, harder to interrupt, and serve more as quick damage or escape to help turn the tide of battle
   
2. Pet buff - Pets are unique to rangers and yet they are so worthless you rarely see them. When you do see a pet it is usually a noob marker or someone filling out their Menagerie, not brining a pet along as part of a great build
   
3. Greater turret flexibility - Outside of a single elite bow skill (barrage) paired with a single secondary skill (splinter weapon), rangers and damage don't go together. What happens when you're a barrager facing a single enemy? Goodbye damage, spam conditions and hope the rest of the team can finish the job. Rangers shouldn't be limited to barraging and spreading conditions. They need greater flexibility in the types of damage they can deal out, and the interaction of that damage with their unique elements - pets and traps
   
4. Interrupting - Mesmers own this domain now and can beat a ranger at it every time. Flash traps could combine in interesting ways with interrupts, again to help shutdown an enemy or get the ranger out of trouble

My $0.02. I loved the idea of the ranger when GW came out and thought pets and traps had a lot of potential. Both of these are unique to the ranger but are weak and in niche builds at best. Show the ranger some love Anet!

Why? Who believes this and for what reason?

Everyone else still has not caught up with the damage to defense ratio a ranger has. Rangers are tankier than warriors, do massive amounts of pressure, and have huge amounts of utility.

Quick Traps... NO! That is way too powerful. R/A = shadow walk to target hit 1,2,3,4,5,6, and dash = AoE death ball of explosion and pain. You've got to be kidding...

Pet buff... NO! Pets are hugely useful for pressure. R/W Bunny Thumpers had to be nerfed down because of how powerful they were at pressuring out targets. Same concept goes for R/P. Increasing the damage on a pet would simply get abused beyond belief.

Greater Turret Flexibility... NO! Where have you been the past 2 years? You want a turret in PvE? Prepared Shot, Sundering Attack, Penetrating Attack, Hunter's Shot, Read the Wind, "I am the Strongest", Drunken Master, Death Pact Signet. GG! Turret Rangers were so imbalanced in PvP that the majority of those skills have (PvP) splits.

Interrupting... NO! Again, what planet are you living on? Rangers have expertise which means they can just spam interrupts on recharge... not to mention the vast array of ways Rangers can apply incredibly long lasting daze... which is perma shutdown on just about any caster. I mean... you've got to be kidding me.

Rangers are overpowered... I really don't see any reason to buff them even further. Rangers do everything better than anyone else... except dervishes... but those need to be nerfed.

This has been gone over multiple times now. With the exception of quick-activating traps, you haven't suggested anything specific, so there's not much that can be said here.

My only question is, why would you ever run Splinter Barrage on a Ranger, when Ritualists do it so much better? Use your secondary for something they can't do, like SY or GftE.

Also, very nice trolling by the person above me. Well done. Have a cookie.

*cough*exactly my reaction to flash enchantments and still arenanet implemented those?.

Powerful skills without being interruptable and only counter able by diversion is not good for the game.

I don't think we should fight powercreep with powercreep that way though. With every skill being decreased in cast time rangers gets less and less favor. Mesmers have no problem at all since their interrupts got both fast casting and no flight time. The latest on this front was the flash enchantments being indeed instant and thus practically only counter able by diversion (which belongs to the enemy monk or ritu anyways).

It's not so much of a spike as you say since they would get the disable flash enchants get but rather the problem in how to counter.

Ooops i realize that you are either utilizing hard core amounts of sarcasm or irony or trolololololing to the skies.

I mean seriously better than any class except dervishes? Dude i think hes talking pve and even in pvp the point of the ranger is faltering for every day with incredibly powerful options for both shutdowns and utility.

Oh dear rangers are secretly the second best at everything holy cow!
Best keep that to your self so you don't blow our conspiracy!

Wake up. The ranger got either a good survivor ability or a half decent single target damage output. elemental armor is always there but if survivor ability was the point you could avoid combat at all and claim you haven't died yet! Rangers are resilient in pvp thanks to their ability to counter elemental damage with a natural +30 armor, counter melee with natural stride for critical skills like knockdowns and eviscerate etc., remove critical conditions with mending touch and if dedicated splitter maintain self independence with troll unguent for unstrippable heals. And keeping critical targets crippled while pressuring the enemy team with apply poison which is nearly the only damage source for the typical ranger other than the conditional savage shot. In pve that isn't viable. Fast and fragile is the norm or rather fast and fragile but with an imbagon or soul twister to overcompensate. Even though you are the last to die you can't prevent others from dying (great you magebaned meteor shower on the terrorweb, now his 12 friends would like a word with you while the mesmer would have cake-walked over them with panic and at the same time outputted a gazzzililon damage in AOE with dual wastrels and mistrust. So the mesmer does not only shut down an entire mob instead of preventing the usage of one skill with a single elite but he can also kill them in a matter of seconds which gives him both better shut down and damage. He will do more damage with watrels on the mob than you could do on one target with a ranger turret build. How about the survivor ability then? Well that is of course taken care of by his friend the imbagon or soultwister or even a decent protmonk. If you can't kill and shutdown at the same time either your damage or your shutdown needs to be supreme. And rangers have no supreme roles.
Tanks without spellimunity is kinda pointless anyways.

Broad head arrow is okay with epidemic i suppose but dude this isn't pre-Eotn era, we got technobabble for spreading daze since that expansion you know? And it does not force you to roll a ranger at all, nor does it cost you two skill slots and a elite skill and limits your secondary to mesmer. Okay it does take a pve slot but whatever.

Pets are actually decent, but not for the reasons you mentioned. I haven't seen RAO in pvp for a loooong time (lololol if you think the main reason for RAO is to have a pet for more damage you are wrong, it was only used because combining IMS and IAS into a non stance skill was powerful. And now you can go check up Onslaugh if you want. And for pve... Even to mention it...*shudders*....

Pets hit hard even in hardmode when you go dedicated while being able to shrug of the usual blows easily. Oh wow didn't i say that single target survivability without spellimmunity was bad? Not when you can actually achieve something with it like for example have the damage as primary focus and absorbing some enemies as a bonus.

To op: These days i am actually mostly rolling a dedicated beastmaster for my survivor title and it is decent. Considering the massive nerf to all physical damage the pets damage with heal as one is decent.

EDIT: Even though you think this is suggestions for pvp have you ever heard about pressure in pve?

Other than fixing some small stuff (barrage could work better, traps, what you said, etc) I feel rangers are still decent in both pve/pvp.

The problem is that certain classes have their skill re-work priority over other classes. If (as an example) an Elementalist was to fight a Ranger the Ele would probably loose (resistance and damage, whatnot). And in pve Elementalists may outdamage Rangers. But in HM it is probably the other way around.

But heck. Mesmers/Dervish's got their time in the sun. The Ranger will get its own time to shine. But there may be some time to wait because most people feel other classes deserve it more.

In the mean time. May I suggest bunny-thumping?

I am fine with rangers the way they are, perhaps a few skills can be nerfed but a full revamp isn't necessary IMO. If your having trouble getting traps down use Trappers Focus or simple lay a few before you engage.

Lets not forget rangers can play SoS, Run most melee profs as secondy and have energy to spare.

Ummm... they're enchantments.

6 people spiking with spike trap in a different order = KD lock and cripple as the person explodes... fail. Flash Enchantments don't have spike potential like traps. That eliment of the dervish was removed for good reason.

Yeah... that's why they are used in almost every build since the game began.

Because Burning Arrow (and Point Black Shot) have never been used in PvE... and it got nerfed why? Because Rangers are too good at EVERYTHING. You need a great snare? Bring a ranger. Need shutdown? Bring a ranger. Need more pressure? Bring a ranger. Need splitability? Bring a ranger. They don't call them the team toolbox for nothing.

So are you suggesting that A-net make Rangers fast and fragile? We already have classes that do that. Because rangers are already excellent at spamming "Save Yourselves" like an imbagon...

No physical damage dealing profession can prevent others from dying outside of paragon and that is basically ALL that profession is good for. Seriously! Are mesmers excellent at preventing their team from dying? Not any more than a ranger! And even if they were, do the suggestions in the OP solves this problem? No! So why are you bringing it up?

So after 5 consecutive years of absolutely NO love in PvE, mesmers finally got a break and now rangers are whining because they aren't the ONLY profession capable of usefull interruption? Really?... stop sucking... learn to guild wars.

Broad Head Arrow one target and then immediately switch to another and shut that one down. Let the melee do the interrupting for you. You can't tell me BHA isn't useful in many key situations. Come on dude... think.

Ummm... Pets absolutely were used to pressure in those thumper builds. Thumpers were widely used way before RaO thumpers. They ate reversals and did tons of damage when applied to barbs as well as crippled using maiming strike. Seriously... learn to guild wars.

Frankly, who gives a f*** about PvE. The whole damn thing is easy mode. I mean, you've got to be kidding me. A-Net is not going to go out of their way to add a bunch of skill balances to make PvE better for rangers. Rangers are already useful in PvE. This post was made in response to the most recent skill balance. News flash, it wasn't meant for PvE. All of those updates were due to PvP balance issues. Why? Because PvE is balance-proof. PvE and skill balancing is almost entirely mutually exclusive (with exception to mesmers only). There is no possible way I could make an argument for or against buffing skills in PvE only. Who cares?

There's a few bow attacks, spirits and skills that could stand a buff to be 'useful' instead of stupid, and pets suck unless you use them for ias, triggering phys packets or healing, but an overhaul is unwarranted.

Even though I love the ranger a complete revamp of skills is a little much to expect.
Don't get me wrong there is a lot to fix because the concept of a jack of all trades character which the ranger is badly dated compared to other classes.
There are a number of skills that really need moving to different skill tracks.

Other classes mainly the Ele need a rethink too so I think a partial repair of both rather than spending six months on one followed by a nerf because they went ott like the dervish revamp.

Small change to ele casting times armor penetration and an exhaustion rethink while putting some of the ranger skills in some better order.
Because we have traps spirits running skills and bow attacks spread all over the place.

PVE players care that's why and to be honest pve is why the game was written not pvp.
If this was just a pvp game we wouldn't need lore missions a world strange creatures a plotline etc.
All you need for pvp are weapons skills a costume and a big room.

Who in their right mind would ever again write a pvp game its far too expensive in terms of man/woman hours.

Think up an rpg write it sell it go buy a ferrarri not so with pvp because you keep breaking pvp leading to loads of kidults running to mommy whining about how your toy is busted and sobbing loudly about other kids beating you up and how you didn't break it.

Sorry about this post but I obviously have issues with some players attitudes to pvp but its out of my system for now.

Rangers are stale, that's their problem. Classes have been buffed around them (especially in PvE) so that there are only a few build you can safely run. One of their main issues is energy management, it's either OP through expertise or poor.
They need to be given a new direction, origionally they were basically good at everything (casters management, DPS, condition spreaders) which is why there's a lot of hate for them.

Quick traps? No, traps were always going to be gimmicky. Something that GW2 will revamp properly. For GW1 it's best to just ignore then.

Pets are also more than a little gimmicky and were never going to work properly in GW1, as compression is still impossible and speccing purely as a beastmaster is just awful. Again something that is being reworked for GW2 and should be left alone.

A lot of their skills do need some love that is agreed, it would be nice if they were able to get more out of preparations. That and elite skills, as has been suggested before maybe something like Practised Stance allowing multiple preparations and extending their duration (so less fuss is spent maintaining).

Interrupting is also a fair point, mesmers are handsdown better at it. Sure rangers can provide some physical damage and conditions but mesmers can do it without failure. All you need to do though is give small buffs to the existing skills, especially the elites.

The PvE aspect though is radically different to PvP( much like the sin it's either weaksauce or OP with little). Most ranger nerfs have had PvP intentions so they definitely need some lovin' there.

Rangers' themselves are weak. Most of the Ranger's effective builds revolve around using the more powerful skills other professions posses; spirit spam, daggers, scythes, spears and W for "Save Yourselves!" and their weapons to an extent (all are good combined with SoH & Splinter anyway).

It's only due to expertise that Rangers' are able to make use of other professions more powerful skills to be effective. All the Ranger can do itself with its own skills is run mediocre/not very desirable builds that achieve less than what other professions can bring to a team.

I can only see three things a Ranger itself can bring that's not it just mimicking another profession:
1. Pet builds (Strong, but you have to pretty much dedicate your whole bar to it for it to be so. Has similar issues to W hero AI; acts retarded.)
2. Barrage builds (again it mainly makes use of other professions powerful skills e.g. Splinter Weapon & "Save Yourselves!")
3. Interrupt builds (Mesmer's AoE Panic and Psychic Instability interrupts say hi. Movement, walls, blocking skills and blind are no issue to those guys. That and they make whatever a Ranger brings a joke in PvE.)

I was going to add condition builds but then I lol'd. Well as long as the other professions stay nice and strong we can just keep making use of their skills instead of our own.

Just a note from a mesmer at heart: leave interrupting to us. Seriously. Rangers should have viable, useful pet builds, they should have useful traps... and no interrupts whatsoever.

Yes, Rangers could use some buffing.

No, they do not need a complete rework.

lolwut?

Interrupting is the primary purpose of the ranger. There is nothing saying that you can't have two classes with interrupts just as there is no restriction saying that there can't be more than 1 melee class.

Mesmers are for shutdown... (see Shame/Guilt/Power Block/Blackout/Diversion/signet of Humility and basically the entire Illusion line) interrupts are only one facet of shutdown.

Before the Mesmer PVE buff that WTF-ed half the mesmer skills... d-shot+savage shot was in just about every GvG team. The main reason for the change to this is because of the skills Mesmers got changed... cry of frustration used to be 15 energy with 20 recharge iirc; leech signet used to be higher recharge; PI used to be laughable. Unlike Mesmer interrupts, Ranger interrupts are two-fold (esp. Savage shot): you can spread conditions faster for degen and get a random interrupt out of it and do more damage on spikes because of fast attack speed. With d-shot, it's less energy than power lock or any other mesmer interrupt due to expertise , with a more potent effect.

All the 12 recharge and 15 recharge mesmer interrupts due to the recent PVE mesmer recharge changes (along with Panic/PI) are what led to rangers losing their interrupt status. (Web of disruption; complicate ; cry of pain ; cry of frustration ; tease). However d-shot is much cheaper and has a disabling effect you would only get with power lock , signet of distraction or Psychic distraction.

In short, the Mesmer PVE recharge change made power lock/signet of distraction compete with d-shot/magebane for spells and power spike on par with savage shot/magebane. Power lock/spike is largely useless against half the professions (i.e. non caster).

Here's what I'd like to see:

1. Buff bows. Make them deal higher damage or greater crit % or faster refire (not all of the above, mind you). This fixes a primary issue that deals with the only ranger-designed weapon and immediately makes every bow skill better, including many in the expertise line that only primary rangers can use.

2. Change Trapper's Speed to "Stance. (5...25...30 seconds.) Your traps recharge 50% faster and activate 50% faster. Ends if you hit with an attack." or 33% or similar buff and possibly alter Trapper's Focus to not just make traps "not easy to interrupt" but also speed up their recharge and activation.

3. Buff Pets. Merely improving pet AI and controls should do. Adding a separate flag for a pet would be totally sweet.

That'd make me quite happy.

Interrupting with arrows just doesn't make sense. Logic-wise. Sure, you got used to rupting with rangers, it might be fun, but it just plainly sucks.
It'd be fine if they had 1-2 skills to rupt, one being Chocking Gas, with long recharges and some penalties, or being elites. Leave mesmers' niche for them or give them pets.

Ranger Interrupts require much more skill to use than Mesmer interrupts and they're less reliable. You can't interrupt 3/4 casts easily with ranger interrupts unless you anticipate/time it.

It's quite plausible to be interrupted by an arrow whizzing past your eye while casting... or simple choking gas ala World War I.

This is patently false. Guild Wars was entirely motivated and inspired by Magic: The Gathering which is a PvP card game. It isn't like WoW which is based off of dungeons and dragons and other PvE role playing games. Sorry, but you are absolutely wrong about your assessment.

A lot of what you say here is true which is why GW2 is NOT a PvP oriented game design like GW1. A-Net realised that they didn't have the ability to manage such a complex system as GW1 so they literally burned the house down and built a new one from scratch.