This could fall under Q&A, but is more of an opinion/discussion type question.
I see lots of talk of balanced vs gimmick team builds, and I would like to know what you guys/gals mean when you say balanced.
To me, I see it as an equal mix of melee, ranged (casters,rangers), and heal/protect. I alternately play 2 accounts, one with Ele main, and one with Ranger main. My basic teams consist of one each melee, ranger, ele, and healer. As team size grows, and depending on bad guys in a given area, I add another caster, ranged, melee, and heal/protect. If the area has plenty of fleshy, I replace one melee with a MM. If there are lots of undead, the MM is replaced with a Smite monk. The first Ele is generally an Air/water and the second ele is most often an earth/warder. Also the second Ranger is often replaced with a mes.
What do you use as a balanced team? No need to discuss skills used, just team members.
What do you mean when you say balanced team?
Perkunas
Haxor
2x Front-line (Usually at least one warrior)
2-3x Offensive Mid-line (Spiritspammers, minion bomb with offense, mesmer etc)
1-2x Defensive Mid-line (Minion bomb with prots/rit heals, Earth ele, imbagon etc)
2x Monk (Usually 2 WoH Hybrids)
In NM there is no real need for defensive mid-line, and offensive mid-line would probably be IV necros, SF eles or something, depending on how far in the game and what you're facing.
2-3x Offensive Mid-line (Spiritspammers, minion bomb with offense, mesmer etc)
1-2x Defensive Mid-line (Minion bomb with prots/rit heals, Earth ele, imbagon etc)
2x Monk (Usually 2 WoH Hybrids)
In NM there is no real need for defensive mid-line, and offensive mid-line would probably be IV necros, SF eles or something, depending on how far in the game and what you're facing.
syronj
It looks as if you have it well planned. I've been playing for less than a year, to get that out of the way. These days I use 7 heroes where possible. At least one monk, often two in case the first monk gets ganked. Two dervishes lately, an assassin sometimes but not always, an ele, and one or two tanks. One ranger, usually Pyre as a ranger/necro. One or two ritualists, as secondary profession often. If I'm running out of room in the group, the assassin seems to be the first one to be left out. Hayda the paragon was lasting longer than many of the other heroes yesterday; I sometimes have one paragon in the group.
My groups seem to end up heavier on the ritualists and necros lately, but as noted above I try to have a variety. I know this isn't planned well enough.
My groups seem to end up heavier on the ritualists and necros lately, but as noted above I try to have a variety. I know this isn't planned well enough.
LifeInfusion
PvE
front:1 war/1 derv/1 assassin (derv or warrior usually if only one)
mid: necro, mes, ranger, paragon, rit
back: ST rit/resto rit/ ER ele if necro MM, party heal monk (UA+DH+HD)
PvP
front: warrior/derv/sin <-- pick 2
mid: necro, mes, ranger, paragon, ele <-- pick 3
back: 2x monk, party heal rit (rit flags usually)
see http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/w...t10453687.html ; http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Balanced
realistically the most balanced PvE build will be frontline-less unless you want to deal with melee AI, so you sub in a spear paragon for a melee, losing out on AoE.
for me, PvE balanced with heroes means:
1 Mo - UA with UA+HD+DH+Gift/Healing burst monk
1 Rt - Resto hybrid SoS w/ restor
1 N - Minion bomber w/ Prot Spirit or Soul twist rit in areas without bodies
1 Me - Panic Mesmer
1 P - Command Paragon / dervish running Avatar of dwayna and nothing melee <-- in areas with blind/miss hex swap for necro or mesmer
1 R - Ranger w/ d-shot + sloth hunter + barrage <-- in areas with blind/miss hex swap for necro or mesmer
1 Me - Keystone/Illusion Mesmer (damage)
1 (Class) - Player
unused: Warrior (heroes can only use Warrior's endurance); assassin (heroes fail hard at chains); eles (heroes suck at ER and everything else is meh)
Yes, I'd rather bring 2 mesmers than an ele + mesmer and I tried ST with offensive spirits but the single-targeted nature made me impatient and you need 13 spawning if you don't want to get owned by weakness (3 spirits every 15 vs 4 from SoS + Bloodsong every 30). I feel SoGM rits are too slow unless you sit in a certain place for 45 seconds (the recharge on some spirits in communing: Anguish, Dissonance). Without those 45 recharge spirits you only get Pain, Shadowsong, Disenchantment.
front:1 war/1 derv/1 assassin (derv or warrior usually if only one)
mid: necro, mes, ranger, paragon, rit
back: ST rit/resto rit/ ER ele if necro MM, party heal monk (UA+DH+HD)
PvP
front: warrior/derv/sin <-- pick 2
mid: necro, mes, ranger, paragon, ele <-- pick 3
back: 2x monk, party heal rit (rit flags usually)
see http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/w...t10453687.html ; http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Balanced
realistically the most balanced PvE build will be frontline-less unless you want to deal with melee AI, so you sub in a spear paragon for a melee, losing out on AoE.
for me, PvE balanced with heroes means:
1 Mo - UA with UA+HD+DH+Gift/Healing burst monk
1 Rt - Resto hybrid SoS w/ restor
1 N - Minion bomber w/ Prot Spirit or Soul twist rit in areas without bodies
1 Me - Panic Mesmer
1 P - Command Paragon / dervish running Avatar of dwayna and nothing melee <-- in areas with blind/miss hex swap for necro or mesmer
1 R - Ranger w/ d-shot + sloth hunter + barrage <-- in areas with blind/miss hex swap for necro or mesmer
1 Me - Keystone/Illusion Mesmer (damage)
1 (Class) - Player
unused: Warrior (heroes can only use Warrior's endurance); assassin (heroes fail hard at chains); eles (heroes suck at ER and everything else is meh)
Yes, I'd rather bring 2 mesmers than an ele + mesmer and I tried ST with offensive spirits but the single-targeted nature made me impatient and you need 13 spawning if you don't want to get owned by weakness (3 spirits every 15 vs 4 from SoS + Bloodsong every 30). I feel SoGM rits are too slow unless you sit in a certain place for 45 seconds (the recharge on some spirits in communing: Anguish, Dissonance). Without those 45 recharge spirits you only get Pain, Shadowsong, Disenchantment.
Lasai
Depends on the Main I am using.
For my ranger.. One monk, Panic Mes, SoS rit, Curse Necro, Earth Ele with wards, Mbomb Necro/resto. The last slot is Para, Derv, another Ranger..depends on mood and area. In non fleshy areas the Mbomber goes and is replaced by a smite/heal monk or another mes.
Sometimes I will run with a bow crit Assassin in the last slot. The constant interrupts amuse me, so I generally run a para with that.
On my War/Derv much the same, but I tend to run more with Para and Smite monk for the smite buffs on my melee. It is hilarious on my Derv to run in with splinter, go for the eyes, strength of honor and Judges insight etc.
To my recollection I've never run with 3 of any prof except when goofing off. I last ran consulate Docks with 3 Dervs, 2 Paras, Jora and a monk just to be silly. Was funny watching the groups of bowmen get eaten alive.
For my ranger.. One monk, Panic Mes, SoS rit, Curse Necro, Earth Ele with wards, Mbomb Necro/resto. The last slot is Para, Derv, another Ranger..depends on mood and area. In non fleshy areas the Mbomber goes and is replaced by a smite/heal monk or another mes.
Sometimes I will run with a bow crit Assassin in the last slot. The constant interrupts amuse me, so I generally run a para with that.
On my War/Derv much the same, but I tend to run more with Para and Smite monk for the smite buffs on my melee. It is hilarious on my Derv to run in with splinter, go for the eyes, strength of honor and Judges insight etc.
To my recollection I've never run with 3 of any prof except when goofing off. I last ran consulate Docks with 3 Dervs, 2 Paras, Jora and a monk just to be silly. Was funny watching the groups of bowmen get eaten alive.
Tyris Requiem
tbh: Axe, Hammer, Ranger, Mes, Ele, Prot, Fuse, Flagger.
IronSheik
7 mesmers, 1 paragon.
Perfectly balanced to me.
Perfectly balanced to me.
Chrisworld
Balanced amount of classes in your group.
Marverick
I define a team to be balanced when it is not unbalanced.
MithranArkanere
8 players. No assassin. No paragon. And 1 of each from the rest.
Who am I kidding?
Anything without gimmicks is enough.
As long as no one is using things like mantra of frost + winter, invincibuilds or bringing more than 3 skills from a secondary profession it's somewhat balanced.
Who am I kidding?
Anything without gimmicks is enough.
As long as no one is using things like mantra of frost + winter, invincibuilds or bringing more than 3 skills from a secondary profession it's somewhat balanced.
Horace Slughorn
balanced for me means no spell immunity (e.g. sf/obi/vos/sb)
Crom The Pale
For me, being a war, balanced has always been a split between offence, defence and healing.
5/1/2 generally speaking.
5 offensive classes are usually 1war/1ranger/1rit/1ele
1 defensive classes is most often mesmer
2 healing are usually a monk and either a rit or a necro/rit
The builds vary from map to map and even the roles switch up a bit with a smite monk in when I swap the ranger for second necro/rit.
5/1/2 generally speaking.
5 offensive classes are usually 1war/1ranger/1rit/1ele
1 defensive classes is most often mesmer
2 healing are usually a monk and either a rit or a necro/rit
The builds vary from map to map and even the roles switch up a bit with a smite monk in when I swap the ranger for second necro/rit.
Cuilan
Assuming it's eight players in a mostly human group, perhaps 0-4 physicals, 1-2 healing prot roles, and rest casters as either damage or stuff like FD/Orders etc. There can be a lot or no synergy. If it's a group of just heroes and a single player, I don't think it's an issue.
It's when you get unnatural things seen in speed clears with multi-mob balling and splits.
I was in a guild briefly that claimed balanced is not using skills that worked well together or PvE skills. I was kicked. ._.
It's when you get unnatural things seen in speed clears with multi-mob balling and splits.
I was in a guild briefly that claimed balanced is not using skills that worked well together or PvE skills. I was kicked. ._.
Bright Star Shine
7min Urgoz is pretty balanced if you ask me..
Ok, no, I don't play so much general PvE anymore, but when I did, I used to take 1/2 warriors, 1/2 Monks, 1/2 eles, 1/2 necro's, mixing however suited me. This was with heroes/henches usually..
Ok, no, I don't play so much general PvE anymore, but when I did, I used to take 1/2 warriors, 1/2 Monks, 1/2 eles, 1/2 necro's, mixing however suited me. This was with heroes/henches usually..
NerfHerder
Pretty much anything that is not a Gimmick Build. For example, anything that uses SF or can be considered a SC is probably a gimmick.
Balanced builds are much more open to variation. Random pug groups often try to form balanced groups for this reason. Basically, Healer/Prot, Damage, and a Tank/CC. Many different professions can substitute as one or the other. An MM or Spirit Spammer can sub as a tank in PvE. An Ele can go damage or Prot. The builds and professions arent as important. Whats important is that all the roles are filled.
In other words, Balanced builds are interdependent on roles. Where gimmick builds are interdependent on builds.
EDIT: As for myself, I bring 2 healers(one dedicated and one hydrid) in the form of an ER Prot and SoS Resto. An MM and SoS usually cover both damage and tanking. 2 Mesmers for crowd control/damage/damage mitigation. And the rest is whatever. Usually a Command Paragon and another caster for support or another hybrid healer for tougher areas. On my melee's its an RoJ divine healer with SoH. I consider that balanced, because I could substitute all of those with other builds with generally the same effect.
Balanced builds are much more open to variation. Random pug groups often try to form balanced groups for this reason. Basically, Healer/Prot, Damage, and a Tank/CC. Many different professions can substitute as one or the other. An MM or Spirit Spammer can sub as a tank in PvE. An Ele can go damage or Prot. The builds and professions arent as important. Whats important is that all the roles are filled.
In other words, Balanced builds are interdependent on roles. Where gimmick builds are interdependent on builds.
EDIT: As for myself, I bring 2 healers(one dedicated and one hydrid) in the form of an ER Prot and SoS Resto. An MM and SoS usually cover both damage and tanking. 2 Mesmers for crowd control/damage/damage mitigation. And the rest is whatever. Usually a Command Paragon and another caster for support or another hybrid healer for tougher areas. On my melee's its an RoJ divine healer with SoH. I consider that balanced, because I could substitute all of those with other builds with generally the same effect.
cosyfiep
balanced...hhmmmm, I always bring a healing monk, sos rit, mm, another monk of some kind, p/w (heck why not), interupter--either mes or ranger, ele and whatever I am playing replaces one of those.
I RARELY use melee other than paragon and rangers. (mox has yet to see the light of day)....unless required or for the lolz; the minions seem to do enough melee so no need to waste a hero slot.
I RARELY use melee other than paragon and rangers. (mox has yet to see the light of day)....unless required or for the lolz; the minions seem to do enough melee so no need to waste a hero slot.
FoxBat
"Balanced" is a gvg build consisting of two warriors, a ranger, ele, mesmer, 2 monks, and a flagger. I don't see it as anything but just another build name, much like "derv pressure", "hexway", "triple melee", "invoke spike", etc. There's nothing special about the build other than some people's nolstagic hard-on for it.
I don't really use the term "balanced" in reference to PvE. I do deal with random players from random professions ad-hocing a team instead of a speedclear quite often, but I don't consider that especially "balanced" compared to anything else, nor really care if it is or not. I just know that I'm not interested in repeating most content enough to really master a speedclear build, and even if I did for e.g. solo farming, I tend to get bored and move on once the build is mastered. Just too easy to farm zkeys on casual pvp zquests and get whatever I want that way.
I don't really use the term "balanced" in reference to PvE. I do deal with random players from random professions ad-hocing a team instead of a speedclear quite often, but I don't consider that especially "balanced" compared to anything else, nor really care if it is or not. I just know that I'm not interested in repeating most content enough to really master a speedclear build, and even if I did for e.g. solo farming, I tend to get bored and move on once the build is mastered. Just too easy to farm zkeys on casual pvp zquests and get whatever I want that way.
BladeDVD
Something to soak up damage (minons/spirits), something to prevent it (interrupts, prot), something to heal it and the rest to deal it.
Usually me as SoS, a MM w/interrupts or prot/heal, panic mesmer, necro resto w/dmg, ST rit, rest some kind of dmg.
I don't use melee hero/hench in PVE unless I have no choice due to AI, though I do want to eventually look into the physical-way teams I've heard about. I just don't play my melee characters much, so it's not as intuitive for me.
Usually me as SoS, a MM w/interrupts or prot/heal, panic mesmer, necro resto w/dmg, ST rit, rest some kind of dmg.
I don't use melee hero/hench in PVE unless I have no choice due to AI, though I do want to eventually look into the physical-way teams I've heard about. I just don't play my melee characters much, so it's not as intuitive for me.
Snograt
Balanced, for me, means:
- One guy afk
- One guy with a female ele, dancing naked
- One wammo with mismatched armor, running around in circles, crying "woowoowoowoo!"
- One guy drawing penises on the radar
- One guy wanting me to drop my BDS on the floor, just so he can "see the skin."
- One guy begging me to give him the ecto that just dropped for me.
- One guy saying how much this sucks in comparison to EQ.
TheGizzy
For me, and I only PvE, "balanced" basically means a team setup that I can generally take anywhere in standard PvE (non-elite) areas with very minor tweaking to any individual builds (extra hex removal, more holy damage, whatever), and doing so in such a way that the absence or replacement of one or more of those builds won't tank the team's ability to complete an area.
I play an elementalist, my husband plays a ranger, my best friend plays a necro, my friend Missy often plays a rit or mesmer and our other friend is usually a ranger. To my mind, I should be able to slide any or all of them into a team setup amongst the heroes I use regularly and still be able to achieve our goals without greater OR less difficulty. And that's without running something like a Discord team with an AP caller, a straight Sabway or Spiritway, an Imbagon, etc.
I don't want any one part of my team to be basically carrying the rest... we should all have our part to play, all be contributing to the achievement.
I play an elementalist, my husband plays a ranger, my best friend plays a necro, my friend Missy often plays a rit or mesmer and our other friend is usually a ranger. To my mind, I should be able to slide any or all of them into a team setup amongst the heroes I use regularly and still be able to achieve our goals without greater OR less difficulty. And that's without running something like a Discord team with an AP caller, a straight Sabway or Spiritway, an Imbagon, etc.
I don't want any one part of my team to be basically carrying the rest... we should all have our part to play, all be contributing to the achievement.
Carboplatin
balance for me is byob with 1-2 healers.
Improvavel
Balance for me is a team that has a frontline that has the job of dealing damage and body blocking; a mid-line that assists in dealing damage and defensive duties, either by means of disrupting the enemy or ensuring/complementing the backline and the frontline are able to do their role; and a backline that has the job of keeping the team alive and fighting ready.
It is true that melee AI is a bit retarded and that makes it harder to have a frontline unless you have human players.
It is true that melee AI is a bit retarded and that makes it harder to have a frontline unless you have human players.
bhavv
7 classes of different professions using builds based on their primary class 
chuckles79
Balanced means 1-2 frontliners, 4-5 midliners, and 2 healers of some sort.
This is great for NM.
In HM and more difficult areas (FoW) you have to pick a semi-gimmicky team build. Most popular and classic are 3 necros for a discordway or sabway. Very few areas where this isn't a noob-driven steamroller.
For the rest of the team (assuming all heroes) it's situational at best. I find the best results with 3 discords, 1 SoS/smite hybrid, 2 mesmers (one Panic/PI, one Ineptitude) and a warrior with Earthshaker. I also make sure one of the mesmers have hexeater signet for mesmer infested areas. I play an imbagon.
This is just what works for me and will not work in every area. I can breeze through FoW but got wiped VQ'ing the Sunjiang District. (lots of ele damage, bring more interrupts!)
A good rule for all hero teams, you either need two full time heroes or 3-4 part-time healers.
This is great for NM.
In HM and more difficult areas (FoW) you have to pick a semi-gimmicky team build. Most popular and classic are 3 necros for a discordway or sabway. Very few areas where this isn't a noob-driven steamroller.
For the rest of the team (assuming all heroes) it's situational at best. I find the best results with 3 discords, 1 SoS/smite hybrid, 2 mesmers (one Panic/PI, one Ineptitude) and a warrior with Earthshaker. I also make sure one of the mesmers have hexeater signet for mesmer infested areas. I play an imbagon.
This is just what works for me and will not work in every area. I can breeze through FoW but got wiped VQ'ing the Sunjiang District. (lots of ele damage, bring more interrupts!)
A good rule for all hero teams, you either need two full time heroes or 3-4 part-time healers.
Gift3d
looks like not a single one of you know what the word really means in terms of this game
that's overwhelmingly hilarious, it must SUCK being a new player in the pvx era. you think a "balanced" group has to have x amount of this, and x amount of that? my space key is starting to stick, i spewed pepsi right in the little crack. one of the funniest threads i've ever seen on guru, just to see people... so fooled, lol.
balanced means something that's able to handle any opposing builds. in other words not a one-dimensional build.
and does not, by any means, ever apply to pve. the word balance in general could never rightfully be applied to ANY aspect of pve. is that some kind of joke? you know exactly what you're up against 100% of the time in pve. give me a break, lmfao.
that's it.
it's that simple.
that's overwhelmingly hilarious, it must SUCK being a new player in the pvx era. you think a "balanced" group has to have x amount of this, and x amount of that? my space key is starting to stick, i spewed pepsi right in the little crack. one of the funniest threads i've ever seen on guru, just to see people... so fooled, lol.
balanced means something that's able to handle any opposing builds. in other words not a one-dimensional build.
and does not, by any means, ever apply to pve. the word balance in general could never rightfully be applied to ANY aspect of pve. is that some kind of joke? you know exactly what you're up against 100% of the time in pve. give me a break, lmfao.
that's it.
it's that simple.
NerfHerder
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gift3d
looks like not a single one of you know what the word really means in terms of this game
that's overwhelmingly hilarious, it must SUCK being a new player in the pvx era. you think a "balanced" group has to have x amount of this, and x amount of that? my space key is starting to stick, i spewed pepsi right in the little crack. one of the funniest threads i've ever seen on guru, just to see people... so fooled, lol. balanced means something that's able to handle any opposing builds. in other words not a one-dimensional build. and does not, by any means, ever apply to pve. the word balance in general could never rightfully be applied to ANY aspect of pve. is that some kind of joke? you know exactly what you're up against 100% of the time in pve. give me a break, lmfao. that's it. it's that simple. |
LordDragon
See? Perfectly balanced. If the Paragon had a big lunch you might have to swap them with the Warrior.
lemming
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gift3d
balanced means something that's able to handle any opposing builds. in other words not a one-dimensional build.
|
enter_the_zone
Quote:
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Originally Posted by chuckles79
Balanced means 1-2 frontliners, 4-5 midliners, and 2 healers of some sort.
This is great for NM. In HM and more difficult areas (FoW) you have to pick a semi-gimmicky team build. Most popular and classic are 3 necros for a discordway or sabway. Very few areas where this isn't a noob-driven steamroller. For the rest of the team (assuming all heroes) it's situational at best. I find the best results with 3 discords, 1 SoS/smite hybrid, 2 mesmers (one Panic/PI, one Ineptitude) and a warrior with Earthshaker. I also make sure one of the mesmers have hexeater signet for mesmer infested areas. I play an imbagon. This is just what works for me and will not work in every area. I can breeze through FoW but got wiped VQ'ing the Sunjiang District. (lots of ele damage, bring more interrupts!) A good rule for all hero teams, you either need two full time heroes or 3-4 part-time healers. |
Come to VQ the bugger today, I had to swap quite a few heroes, since the meta of 3 disco necs, 2 mes, 2 rit got raped, hard. By the mobs from the mission as well. Too many monks and rits removing hexes and conditions for discord to be reliable. In the end, I found adding a warrior hero helped immensely along with an ER ele protter, while I took over spirit spamming.
Marverick
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gift3d
balanced means something that's able to handle any opposing builds. in other words not a one-dimensional build.
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For PvE, no. 5 necro Discordway with an AP caller, 2 Mesmers, and 1 spirit spam Rit could probably handle any PvE area. Essentially if there's something that would give you trouble, you YMLAD + 5x Discord + FH it and it dies in 2 seconds. And I think everyone's intuition would say that such a build is not "balanced."
Astral_Nomad
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Perkunas
This could fall under Q&A, but is more of an opinion/discussion type question.
I see lots of talk of balanced vs gimmick team builds, and I would like to know what you guys/gals mean when you say balanced. To me, I see it as an equal mix of melee, ranged (casters,rangers), and heal/protect. I alternately play 2 accounts, one with Ele main, and one with Ranger main. My basic teams consist of one each melee, ranger, ele, and healer. As team size grows, and depending on bad guys in a given area, I add another caster, ranged, melee, and heal/protect. If the area has plenty of fleshy, I replace one melee with a MM. If there are lots of undead, the MM is replaced with a Smite monk. The first Ele is generally an Air/water and the second ele is most often an earth/warder. Also the second Ranger is often replaced with a mes. What do you use as a balanced team? No need to discuss skills used, just team members. |
Pleikki
Back line, Mid line, Frost line. Having no Gimmick builds at all. max 3 of Same profession
Overall sums up alot reading these. theyre quite right
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Balanced
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gimmick_build
Overall sums up alot reading these. theyre quite right
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Balanced
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gimmick_build
FoxBat
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gift3d
balanced means something that's able to handle any opposing builds.
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EPO Bot
Eight different professions.
And that's why monks had to go.
And that's why monks had to go.
Brian the Gladiator
A balanced philosophy is one which utilizes offense, defense, and special teams.... uh... wait...
Basically when someone wants to play "balanced" that means they want to be able to pressure monks on the other team, be able to focus fire on a single target for spikes, defend all of the above adaquately, have a strong team splittability, and have the ability to shut down anything that prevens a single player from accomplishing thier job. This is why "balanced" team builds are usually being refered to in high-end PvP and not in casual PvE. If a PvE team is talking about being "balanced" it is usually because they don't know what they are talking about and think that it makes them sound smart or superior... when really they just sound like a tool.
Basically when someone wants to play "balanced" that means they want to be able to pressure monks on the other team, be able to focus fire on a single target for spikes, defend all of the above adaquately, have a strong team splittability, and have the ability to shut down anything that prevens a single player from accomplishing thier job. This is why "balanced" team builds are usually being refered to in high-end PvP and not in casual PvE. If a PvE team is talking about being "balanced" it is usually because they don't know what they are talking about and think that it makes them sound smart or superior... when really they just sound like a tool.
Urcscumug
But Gift3d does have a point. In PvE you have all the information about every zone and mission, what every mob is running, and the AI is fixed in its ways. So you only have 2 real choices:
1) Read up on that and then you cannot help not putting some "gimmicks" in your team ie. take at least some advantage of what you're gonna be facing.
2) Voluntarily handicap yourself and your team, by choosing to ignore all that and making all-purpose builds that will (sort of) handle most of the zones (with wildly varying results) and get owned hard in some places.
So you either "cheat" or you enjoy being a masochist, that sums up PvE. Oh, but at least the 2nd variant is "balanced", whoopy. :/
"Balanced" is a self-delusion. Nobody really wants generic builds and to think on their feet, we all want to outguess the opponent and own him hard. It's human nature, we want to win. It applies to GW and it applies to any kind of strategic confrontation ever, from sports to business to war. In war it's called military intelligence. In GW, it's the wiki for PvE and the meta for PvP.
You want "balance"? Stop reading both the PvP and the PvE wikis and the forums and just go in blindly, in full "fog of war" mode. I'm betting most of us wouldn't enjoy it much.
PS: I'm not including people who don't read the wikis because they don't have a clue, or people (like me) who run generic builds because they're too lazy to research and tweak them all the time, or all the people who lucked out in some zone or mission or PvP game even though they ran crap builds. Those are "balanced" alright... if ignorance and lazyness and luck are virtues.
1) Read up on that and then you cannot help not putting some "gimmicks" in your team ie. take at least some advantage of what you're gonna be facing.
2) Voluntarily handicap yourself and your team, by choosing to ignore all that and making all-purpose builds that will (sort of) handle most of the zones (with wildly varying results) and get owned hard in some places.
So you either "cheat" or you enjoy being a masochist, that sums up PvE. Oh, but at least the 2nd variant is "balanced", whoopy. :/
"Balanced" is a self-delusion. Nobody really wants generic builds and to think on their feet, we all want to outguess the opponent and own him hard. It's human nature, we want to win. It applies to GW and it applies to any kind of strategic confrontation ever, from sports to business to war. In war it's called military intelligence. In GW, it's the wiki for PvE and the meta for PvP.
You want "balance"? Stop reading both the PvP and the PvE wikis and the forums and just go in blindly, in full "fog of war" mode. I'm betting most of us wouldn't enjoy it much.
PS: I'm not including people who don't read the wikis because they don't have a clue, or people (like me) who run generic builds because they're too lazy to research and tweak them all the time, or all the people who lucked out in some zone or mission or PvP game even though they ran crap builds. Those are "balanced" alright... if ignorance and lazyness and luck are virtues.
Mokeiro
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Originally Posted by Pleikki
Back line, Mid line, Frost line. Having no Gimmick builds at all. max 3 of Same profession
Overall sums up alot reading these. theyre quite right http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Balanced http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Gimmick_build |
Resume:
Balanced build: You need to be skilled and smart to get the 100% out of it.
Gimmick build: An epileptic monkey with down syndrome could beat any part of the game simply smashing buttons.
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by Marverick
For PvE, no. 5 necro Discordway with an AP caller, 2 Mesmers, and 1 spirit spam Rit could probably handle any PvE area.
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So let me know when you achieve a full run of that in Hard Mode using 5 Nec Discord. Or even the Underworld in HM.
A balanced setup is merely one that has some answer to most (ideally all) opposing setups (offensively and defensively).
This discussion isn't really relevant to PvE. In PvE you simply overpower most things regardless of what you're running with only a few groups posing a threat. I could trivially create an opposing setup that could beat a Discord team but is liable to collapse in the hands of the AI, although it is hard to account for the PvE skill nonsense.
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by Gift3d
looks like not a single one of you know what the word really means in terms of this game. You think a "balanced" group has to have x amount of this, and x amount of that? No, a balanced means something that's able to handle any opposing builds. in other words not a one-dimensional build.
A balanced build does not, by any means, ever apply to pve. the word balance in general could never rightfully be applied to ANY aspect of pve. You know exactly what you're up against 100% of the time in pve, it's that simple. |
Anyway Only thing I disagree with Gift3d on is you cant have a balanced build in PvE. While its not the smartest thing for sure, I'm actually working on a build that will do anything in PvE for the hell of it. I guess you could call it a balanced build
Moiax
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Originally Posted by Carboplatin
balance for me is byob with 1-2 healers.
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