Let's buff the Warrior to Dervish levels! - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

26 Apr 2011 at 15:51 - 161

Funny thread

Though for a more serious buff, I would suggest the following:

Strength - For each point in Strength, you gain +1% armor penetration and +1% damage.

Tactics - For each point in Tactics, you gain +1 Armor, and +2 health

Thats right, a little help for Mo/Ws too

. It still wouldnt bring warriors up to the same level as the dervs, but it would help them a bit more overall.

yum

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

W/E

26 Apr 2011 at 15:55 - 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

Goes back to my question on page four or five 'how is nerfing dervishes the solution to a lack of depth in their gameplay?'. It isn't, but introducing some depth into their gameplay might seem like a nerf to people who just want to spam abilities and win. To clarify my point about both this and bulls, giving dervs a 3s bulls would be a pretty big buff, but it would inarguably add depth to their gameplay and make it easier for a skilled derv to distinguish himself from your average faceroller. The problem, as I pointed out originally (although apparently not clearly enough), is that some of their abilities are so strong that bulls might not even get run. Bulls allows you to create situations that overcome a standard melee weakness that dervs simply don't have. It does more than that of course, but perhaps not enough more that it would see use.

Err.. not all classes are born equal. Some are retarded the day they were born (derv, paragon). Honestly, just nuke the derv. Like floor said, you don't have a class in pvp, you play whatever is required.

And no, giving an OP class a more OP skill is bland stupid. And this is just for the sake of "diversity"? I say &^(@! diversity then.

Azazello

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2010

26 Apr 2011 at 15:58 - 163

Quote:

Originally Posted by yum

Err.. not all classes are born equal. Some are retarded the day they were born (derv, paragon). Honestly, just nuke the derv. Like floor said, you don't have a class in pvp, you play whatever is required.

And no, giving an OP class a more OP skill is bland stupid. And this is just for the sake of "diversity"? I say &^(@! diversity then.

Well, I was trying to be realistic. I guess a lot of people are just venting though. Do you honestly think the dev team is going to put months of work into a dervish revamp so they can nuke them, or are you just blowing off steam?

BTW, since I'm over asking people, I'm going to assume you're using the definition of OP that others seem to be using, which is 'requiring no skill to use well'. I don't think bulls fits.

zan the healer

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2010

Mo/

26 Apr 2011 at 16:06 - 164

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

Battle Rage Shout. (for ims + ias) gain 20 armor and gain 33% more adrenaline. move 33% faster (Avatar of Balthazar)
.

going to stop you right here

avatar of balthazar
Elite Form. (10...74...90 seconds.) You gain +20 armor against physical damage, you gain adrenaline 33% faster, your attacks deal holy damage, you inflict Burning (3 seconds) on nearby foes whenever you lose a Dervish enchantment.
it only gives increased adrenaline gain, +20 armor against physical they still are vulnerable to eles and a aoe burning it
DOES NOT
^^^^ its on its own line so you can see it
give ims or ias
the skill you are looking for is
Onslaught
Wind Prayers
Elite Flash Enchantment Spell. For 3...13...15 seconds, you attack, move and gain adrenaline 25% faster.

if your too jealous of this skill it does not restrict your weapon to just scythes, and its in wind prayers so its not derv exclusive

Quote:

Originally Posted by floor

After spending the last 10 minutes reading this thread, people still seem to be failing to understand very basic concepts, amazing really.

Since everyone is fully aware of the pros of warriors and dervishes (i hope) let me quickly summarise the cons of each of the two professions.

Warriors: Take double damage whilst in frenzy. Cannot use IAS + IMS together. ALL KD skills are conditional or have drawbacks (shock gives exhaustion, bull strike target must be moving etc), the "good" warrior skills generally cost 5-8 adrenaline so cannot be spammed. warriors only have +2 energy regen. Interupt skills (d chop etc) must actually hit a target to function, they can be blocked.

Dervishes: none.

I am not opposed to dervishes whatsoever, I think its great that there is a frontline profession which essentially outputs "pressure" rather than just raw damage. Unfortunately dervishes in their present form output too much damage alongside this pressure, and they also need far more negative effects to using their skills, hitting buttons in order is not necessarily fun for most people. Its nice to have to select an appropriate skill for a desired effect, and then use it at the correct time, and if you mis time it, there is no/minimal effect - ie, skillful play.

I also do not understand this idea of "warrior is ur main so ur butt hurt". Sorry but in pvp you do not have a "main". You play frontline, this could be warrior, dervish, or assasin, (or paragon and ranger in some builds). It just so happens that some of these professions require more thought to operate the bars correctly than dervishes do at present. Most frontliners i know do not dislike dervish as a profession, what they are opposed to though is being forced to switch from bars which require mental thought to operate correctly, to brainless spam bars.

ALL KD skills are conditional or have drawbacks

Dervishes: none.

-from my knowledge dervs only have 2 kds reaper sweep and shield of force

shield of force requires someone to hit you... its a exact clone of shield bash but a little more op since its adjacent kd and does not require a shield

reaper sweep a derv wouldnt be caught dead with since its a elite that requires 8adr

so what are you complaining about

Interupt skills (d chop etc) must actually hit a target to function

our only interrupt skill like this is lyssas haste

it also has a 25 second cooldown (recently nerfed to that)

our other interrupt is lyssa's assault that actually has to hit

Cannot use IAS + IMS together

this i will agree with :P but you can easily take a shout/or run spell from the dervish tree since they are in wind prayers and not derv exclusive

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

26 Apr 2011 at 16:06 - 165

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

There's a pretty clear difference between spoon feeding and being unable to answer simple questions in order to clearly present your point of view. Continuing with the ad hominem line doesn't imply that you belong in the former camp, for reference.

That was an objective observation not ad hominem.

Then again, maybe you are just flat out trolling, which would make sense, considering that you've replied to almost every post in this thread.

Azazello

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2010

26 Apr 2011 at 16:24 - 166

The implication behind your use of inclusive language was fairly apparent, don't be insulting please

I think someone else already pointed out that most people have been replying to me btw, I've simply been conversing with them. The ridiculous thing about it is the antagonistic attitude people have taken towards the conversation, when I was actually just trying to get them to think through and clearly express what they have a problem with so that they can argue it coherently and not be ignored out of hand by the devs due to being unable to do so.

I've said it a million times, spamming 'derv op nerf plx' is pointless, except as some kind of group therapy session I guess.

yum

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

W/E

26 Apr 2011 at 16:36 - 167

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

BTW, since I'm over asking people, I'm going to assume you're using the definition of OP that others seem to be using, which is 'requiring no skill to use well'. I don't think bulls fits.

In the hand of right players, bull is OP. 3s kd and 100+ damage with no drawback (no e,adre lost nor exhaustion) only 5e and only 8s recharge.

And you want to add that on top of a pile of OP shit? The people who use bull well will abuse it to no end.

pinkeyflower

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2010

26 Apr 2011 at 16:41 - 168

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

The ridiculous thing about it is the antagonistic attitude people have taken towards the conversation, when I was actually just trying to get them to think through and clearly express what they have a problem with so that they can argue it coherently and not be ignored out of hand by the devs due to being unable to do so.

I've said it a million times, spamming 'derv op nerf plx' is pointless, except as some kind of group therapy session I guess.

If the devs don't know what needs fixing even though there are a plethora of skills then they are [insert adjective that you think is appropriate].

I have to agree with Ka Tet. Unless you a) don't play PvP, b) are a dervish, or c) are very slow you should be able to see what problems there are. The devs should know this, you should know it. And fixes have been suggested in a more appropriate thread, not a troll thread.

Still Number One

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2008

W/

26 Apr 2011 at 16:43 - 169

Quote:

Originally Posted by zan the healer

reaper sweep a derv wouldnt be caught dead with since its a elite that requires 8adr

Reaper's sweep isn't used currently because there are better options. The 8 adrenaline really isn't that big of a deal for an Elite KD, Magehunter's and Earth Shaker get along just fine.

I actually run a Reaper's Sweep bar quite often and completely wreck people with it. If you use Balthazar's rage as an enchantment to fuel the KD then it is almost as effective as using enraging charge to fuel another hammer KD. The adren gain to fuel reaper's sweep really isn't an issue at all.

The funny thing is that Reaper's sweep actually is kinda OP, but no one will see that because it will never be used while the Avatars, Onslaught, Ebon Dust, and Wounding Strike are in the current states they are.

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

26 Apr 2011 at 16:47 - 170

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

The implication behind your use of inclusive language was fairly apparent, don't be insulting please

I think someone else already pointed out that most people have been replying to me btw, I've simply been conversing with them. The ridiculous thing about it is the antagonistic attitude people have taken towards the conversation, when I was actually just trying to get them to think through and clearly express what they have a problem with so that they can argue it coherently and not be ignored out of hand by the devs due to being unable to do so.

I've said it a million times, spamming 'derv op nerf plx' is pointless, except as some kind of group therapy session I guess.

So, you're a s self-appointed, self-help guru and life coach. Good thing too, the internet needs more of those.

To analogize, people are saying, "2 x 5 = 10."
You're saying, "Show your work."
The few people who actually respond to you will be condescending because you're either making that request because you genuinely do not know that, "2 x 5 = 10," which means you have no place in the discussion, or you feel that people should justify themselves by overly elaborating something simple in order to win your approval.

Azazello

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2010

26 Apr 2011 at 17:10 - 171

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ka Tet

So, you're a s self-appointed, self-help guru and life coach. Good thing too, the internet needs more of those.

To analogize, people are saying, "2 x 5 = 10."
You're saying, "Show your work."
The few people who actually respond to you will be condescending because you're either making that request because you genuinely do not know that, "2 x 5 = 10," which means you have no place in the discussion, or you feel that people should justify themselves by overly elaborating something simple in order to win your approval.

To win my approval? Please.

You know what else should be obvious? The value of a coherent argument when you want something. You know what else is obvious? The people who like to argue 'it should be obvious' are the ones who can't/won't back up their statements with anything of substance. Several have in fact backtracked on their statements or have been unable to respond to direct questions. In nine pages I've seen all of two reasoned and rational statements in favour of dervish nerfs, and I'm inclined to agree with them.

Hell, even now you've got someone defining OP in a completely different way. I don't even know what they're complaining about. Too much pressure I assume, preferring longer matches and more viability for teams without a frontline.

The arguments that have stood up to even a flimsy inspection:
1. Dervish skills do not reward skillful play, or punish a lack of skill.
2. Dervishes put out enough pressure that they do not reward skillful play from the team, they don't need to capitalise well on small opportunities, because dervs create huge opportunities constantly.
3. Dervish pressure teams are shutting out other kinds of team.

pinkeyflower

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2010

26 Apr 2011 at 17:19 - 172

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

To win my approval? Please.

You know what else should be obvious? The value of a coherent argument when you want something. You know what else is obvious? The people who like to argue 'it should be obvious' are the ones who can't/won't back up their statements with anything of substance. Several have in fact backtracked on their statements or have been unable to respond to direct questions. In ten pages I've seen all of two reasoned and rational statements in favour of dervish nerfs, and I'm inclined to agree with them.

Hell, even now you've got someone defining OP in a completely different way. I don't even know what they're complaining about. Too much pressure I assume, preferring longer matches and more viability for teams without a frontline.

You're right, no-one cares about your approval. People have tried to help you understand but everytime someone gives you an answer you keep asking why and even when they have given satisfactory answers you either continue to say why or find something else to respond to. You've said you've found some arguments that you are inclined to. Good, now move along. Honestly, I feel like I'm talking to a door.

Last statement, ???????

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

26 Apr 2011 at 17:20 - 173

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

To win my approval? Please.

You know what else should be obvious? The value of a coherent argument when you want something. You know what else is obvious? The people who like to argue 'it should be obvious' are the ones who can't/won't back up their statements with anything of substance. Several have in fact backtracked on their statements or have been unable to respond to direct questions. In nine pages I've seen all of two reasoned and rational statements in favour of dervish nerfs, and I'm inclined to agree with them.

Hell, even now you've got someone defining OP in a completely different way. I don't even know what they're complaining about. Too much pressure I assume, preferring longer matches and more viability for teams without a frontline.

Give me your specific list of questions.

Azazello

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2010

26 Apr 2011 at 17:27 - 174

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ka Tet

Give me your specific list of questions.

Well, they've been answered, but sure, I can give you the one that started all the fuss. I guess the best way to phrase it would be: 'What are you hoping will be achieved by a dervish nerf?' I tried to phrase it in several different ways, but that seems to sum it up.

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

26 Apr 2011 at 17:35 - 175

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

Well, they've been answered, but sure, I can give you the one that started all the fuss. I guess the best way to phrase it would be: 'What are you hoping will be achieved by a dervish nerf?' I tried to phrase it in several different ways, but that seems to sum it up.

Balance.
There ya go. Now please quit trolling.

deluxe

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Monkeyball Z

S.K.A.T. [Ban]

Mo/

26 Apr 2011 at 17:37 - 176

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

Well, they've been answered, but sure, I can give you the one that started all the fuss. I guess the best way to phrase it would be: 'What are you hoping will be achieved by a dervish nerf?' I tried to phrase it in several different ways, but that seems to sum it up.

I don't really understand what you're trying to prove here, just stop posting please.
Floor's post says exactly what we want.

Azazello

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2010

26 Apr 2011 at 17:39 - 177

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ka Tet

Balance.
There ya go. Now please quit trolling.

Well that was one of the two initial replies I got, but it leads to the question 'How are you defining balance?'

People keep saying balance, but most have been unable to say what they're sitting on the other end of the scale, and that's filled a few with a fair bit of rage, which obviously gets pointed in my direction for asking the question in the first place (see below).

So what are you sitting on the other end of the scale? What do you want to see dervs balanced against?

pinkeyflower

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2010

26 Apr 2011 at 17:40 - 178

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ka Tet

Balance.
There ya go. Now please quit trolling.

No no no. You've failed to address the question fully. Next thing will be how will it create balance? What is balance? How does balance work with a dervish? This one word answer simply will not suffice.

Edit: Prophecy fulfilled.

Azazello

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2010

26 Apr 2011 at 17:43 - 179

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

I don't really understand what you're trying to prove here, just stop posting please.
Floor's post says exactly what we want.

Yeah Floor and Fate Crusher both presented really good arguments. The kind that convince people rather than just worsen that signal to noise ratio. Zan did present an interesting counterpoint to one of Floors points about KDs up the page a bit though.

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

26 Apr 2011 at 17:44 - 180

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

Well that was one of the two initial replies I got, but it leads to the question 'How are you defining balance?'

People keep saying balance, but most have been unable to say what they're sitting on the other end of the scale, and that's filled a few with a fair bit of rage (see below), which obviously gets pointed in my direction for asking the question in the first place.

So what are you sitting on the other end of the scale? What do you want to see dervs balanced against?

How are you defining sitting?
See what I did there?

deluxe

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Monkeyball Z

S.K.A.T. [Ban]

Mo/

26 Apr 2011 at 17:50 - 181

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

Yeah Floor and Fate Crusher both presented really good arguments. The kind that convince people rather than just worsen that signal to noise ratio. Zan did present an interesting counterpoint to one of Floors points about KDs up the page a bit though.

Zan? The guy that doesn't understand my OP is a troll-post? I don't read posts from people that don't get it.

Azazello

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2010

26 Apr 2011 at 17:51 - 182

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ka Tet

How are you defining sitting?
See what I did there?

Sitting is not a relative term. Balance is. You balance against something. A tightrope walker balances left and right. What do you want to see dervs balanced against? It seems like such an easy question doesn't it?

Essence Snow

Unbridled Enthusiasm!

Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

26 Apr 2011 at 17:53 - 183

Quote:

Originally Posted by deluxe

Zan? The guy that doesn't understand my OP is a troll-post? I don't read posts from people that don't get it.

And yet somehow this thread is still open.....everyone knew from start it was going to be a flame thread...only reason it's still open is b/c of Lemming....(watch...this post will be deleted and thread will remain open)

unchained

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2007

Under yer bed!

D/

26 Apr 2011 at 17:53 - 184

Dervs were never bad imo, they just had a poor design and enchant juggling wasn't great before, at least now I have a reason to play.

I understand people get pissed by the obvious buff of a class on a scale like its been done here and it makes there characters feel somewhat obsolete, but remember its just a game, who cares if the dervs are Oped? Just game on.

Gabs88

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2011

26 Apr 2011 at 17:55 - 185

I made this team build a few days back, and tested it with my brand new Dervish. The results were breathtaking, not even my Ritualist could effectively compete with that. But I figured that if I could tank just a little more, the results would get even better! So I made myself a warrior, tried it with swords, tried it with scythe, tried it with hammer. And each time, the results were the same. And no, they weren't much to write home about.

The group wide spikes and damage I could easily achieve using the Dervish just charging in and fighting. Required tons of planning out and tactics using the Warrior. And even then the efficiency just wasn't on par, so I tried a Tactics based 100b build instead. Designed to give me a little tank so that I could group up the enemies. But again, the results were disappointing. I had to resort to using subpar skills because of poor energy regen and it just didn't pan out. That beautiful new Warrior with 15k armor and a Q9 15^50 Colossal Pick I've been saving for ages for the day I would finally make a warrior just didn't pan out. At best it may be used a little in PVP and I guess it's nice getting the HoM points. It's retired

So yes, the warrior definitely does seem to be in need of a proper buff in PVE. If anything I'd simply put like it to be given a skill that adds some proper survivability to the character, and is tied up to strength. And it needs to be a shout, something along the lines of a I Am Unstoppable on steroids. Maybe even a self only kind of "Healing Seed". 8 sec duration @ 14 strength and 20 seconds recharge, enough for a warrior to do the job of a real tank and have enough alone-time to ball the group up before calling the rest of the team and after that be able to support the spike properly.

That said, Warrior is not as much in need of a buff as what Rangers and Paragons are.

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

26 Apr 2011 at 17:55 - 186

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

Sitting is not a relative term. Balance is. You balance against something. A tightrope walker balances left and right. What do you want to see dervs balanced against? It seems like such an easy question doesn't it?

Yes, but is it sitting on the left or right against what I'd be sitting. And, would I be sitting my thing on the left or right.
I'm trying to improve your signal to noise ratio right now.

Azazello

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2010

26 Apr 2011 at 17:57 - 187

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ka Tet

Yes, but is it sitting on the left or right against what I'd be sitting. And, would I be sitting my thing on the left or right.
I'm trying to improve your signal to noise ratio right now.

That's fine, like I said, a lot of people have been unable or unwilling to answer it.

Fate Crusher

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2006

Pie-land

Warlords Of The Underworld [WoTU]

Mo/

26 Apr 2011 at 17:58 - 188

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

Yeah Floor and Fate Crusher both presented really good arguments. The kind that convince people rather than just worsen that signal to noise ratio. Zan did present an interesting counterpoint to one of Floors points about KDs up the page a bit though.

Thanks for the acknowledgement.

Albeit, Zan is defending the Derv. The complaint he asks about is that the conditional pressure a Dervish gives out is irrelevant to a Warrior's Knockdown. Some builds have seen Hammer warriors getting involved to bring a new dynamic into the build. But for the KD to be strong and effective enough, it needs to be backed up by a strong ele/spike. Again, in HA all what the Derv train needs is 2 migraine mesmers and they can slowly outpressure a 3man backline. However, Lyssa's was nerfed so I don't know what the effect is on that yet (I haven't played since just before the latest update).

There are many other gripes I can assess for you and explain further (because I'm sure you would have asked me to, for the sake of arguing), but I'm frankly tired of posting the exact same posts only to explain in minor detail the problems PvP has at the moment, even putting it into context several times.

If one of the mods could weed out some of the trolling posts, maybe this thread could be beneficial for those who need to brush up on their PvP meta, because it's been explained to death.

deluxe

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Monkeyball Z

S.K.A.T. [Ban]

Mo/

26 Apr 2011 at 18:00 - 189

Quote:

Originally Posted by unchained

who cares if the dervs are Oped? Just game on.

I care.
When I get stomped by a warrior on my monk for example, I know the guy has skills. It is easy to spot a bad or a good warrior.
When I get stomped by a dervish, I get annoyed because I know the player is terrible, and even if he was good it doesn't matter.
Dervish require no skill to play, we want dervish to require skill.
Bad warriors get no kills, Bad dervishes do get kills.

Rangers, Mesmers, Necros, Monks, Rits, Eles, Warriors, Assassins all require skill, some more than others.
But what skill does a dervish require? Being able to roll his face over the keyboard.

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

26 Apr 2011 at 18:02 - 190

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

That's fine, like I said, a lot of people have been unable or unwilling to answer it.

You mean other than the ones who did and who you seemed to agree with?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

Dervish pressure teams are shutting out other kinds of team.

Azazello

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2010

26 Apr 2011 at 18:08 - 191

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

Thanks for the acknowledgement.

Albeit, Zan is defending the Derv. The complaint he asks about is that the conditional pressure a Dervish gives out is irrelevant to a Warrior's Knockdown. Some builds have seen Hammer warriors getting involved to bring a new dynamic into the build. But for the KD to be strong and effective enough, it needs to be backed up by a strong ele/spike. Again, in HA all what the Derv train needs is 2 migraine mesmers and they can slowly outpressure a 3man backline. However, Lyssa's was nerfed so I don't know what the effect is on that yet (I haven't played since just before the latest update).

There are many other gripes I can assess for you and explain further (because I'm sure you would have asked me to, for the sake of arguing), but I'm frankly tired of posting the exact same posts only to explain in minor detail the problems PvP has at the moment, even putting it into context several times.

If one of the mods could weed out some of the trolling posts, maybe this thread could be beneficial for those who need to brush up on their PvP meta, because it's been explained to death.

I never wanted to argue. People have been getting upset at me, and I can see why. All I did originally was ask some quite easy questions, but a few people had trouble with them and decided to take that out on me. All I really wanted was to see posts like yours on page 7 and Floors, going into some detail about where the problems lay.

Looking back over the thread, it's quite obvious too.

@ Ka Tet: obviously...

You do recall me saying that my questions had been answered right?

unchained

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2007

Under yer bed!

D/

26 Apr 2011 at 18:16 - 192

I've been playing a derv since nightfall was first released, and have watched as many other classes got buffs, waiting for the dervs turn, so I am a little biased towards the buff, cause I've waited long enough for it.

I do see your point, and i think much like anyone can 12345 on a sin dervs atm can be played by anyone with relatively little skill and achieve decent results. re-reading my first post I see how it came across, and i don't mean to be a arrogant arse, im just glad we FINALLY got an update, albeit it is abit too much.

PvP wise, I think HoF shouldn't give +25% IAS with no penalty, and i also think onslaught is just crazy and needs tuning down a bit.

PvE wise, i say leave them as they are, PvE's broken anyway.

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

26 Apr 2011 at 18:16 - 193

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

@ Ka Tet: obviously...

You do recall me saying that my questions had been answered right?

Then why do you keep repeating them?

Azazello

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2010

26 Apr 2011 at 18:17 - 194

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ka Tet

Then why do you keep repeating them?

You do recall asking me to... right?

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

26 Apr 2011 at 18:19 - 195

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

You do recall asking me to... right?

Then why do you keep repeating them?

See what I did there?

pinkeyflower

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2010

26 Apr 2011 at 18:19 - 196

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

I never wanted to argue. People have been getting upset at me, and I can see why. All I did originally was ask some quite easy questions, but a few people had trouble with them and decided to take that out on me. All I really wanted was to see posts like your first and Floors, going into some detail about where the problems lay.

Looking back over the thread, it's quite obvious too.

@ Ka Tet: obviously...

Please stop feeling sorry for yourself. You asked your questions, fair enough. People gave you relevant answers, fair enough. You ask a few more questions asking for some elucidation on the posts, fair enough. You get relevant answers to those questions, fair enough.

All your questions have been addressed and dealt with (I've read through every post since your first post on page 5), you should now step back think, maybe play some PvP if you still don't fully understand. Instead, you proceed to ignore what has been posted in regards to your questions and continue asking the same questions. Not detracting from floor or Fate Crusher but what they've written had basically already been written in previous posts. Surely you are able to read through a bunch of posts and extract from them some meaning and answers to your questions.

On the last page you posted what you learnt from this 4 page epic. Good, now with this vertiable nugget of knowledge obtained you can finally leave the discussion.

Azazello

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2010

26 Apr 2011 at 18:22 - 197

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkeyflower

Please stop feeling sorry for yourself. You asked your questions, fair enough. People gave you relevant answers, fair enough. You ask a few more questions asking for some elucidation on the posts, fair enough. You get relevant answers to those questions, fair enough.

All your questions have been addressed and dealt with (I've read through every post since your first post on page 5), you should now step back think, maybe play some PvP if you still don't fully understand. Instead, you proceed to ignore what has been posted in regards to your questions and continue asking the same questions. Not detracting from floor or Fate Crusher but what they've written had basically already been written in previous posts. Surely you are able to read through a bunch of posts and extract from them some meaning and answers to your questions.

On the last page you posted what you learnt from this 4 page epic. Good, now with this vertiable nugget of knowledge obtained you can finally leave the discussion.

Not feeling sorry for myself in any way. More for those who persist in attacking me. As I said, the reasons are obvious.

BTW, I don't see myself ignoring anything. I see people continuing to raise it with me after I posted agreement with Floor. Nor do I see any post before, or in fact, after, either of those, that coherently expresses what the problems are and why they are problems.

pinkeyflower

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2010

26 Apr 2011 at 18:27 - 198

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azazello

Not feeling sorry for myself in any way. More for those who persist in attacking me. As I said, the reasons are obvious.

This shall be viewed as an attack: The reasons that you are attacked are despite being given answers repeatedly and satisfactorily you persist in asking the same question. It is like talking to a door. I pity you for being so dim-witted.

Azazello

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2010

26 Apr 2011 at 18:30 - 199

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinkeyflower

This shall be viewed as an attack: The reasons that you are attacked are despite being given answers repeatedly and satisfactorily you persist in asking the same question. It is like talking to a door. I pity you for being so dim-witted.

Where have I repeated the question to someone who answered it? By the way, yes, calling someone dim-witted is generally construed as an attack

pinkeyflower

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2010

26 Apr 2011 at 18:31 - 200

Just in bold to stand out.

This thread has devolved into a flame war and really isn't worth keeping around any longer. Most questions that have been raised have been answered, people have had a chance to voice their opinions, the thread has run its course and is no longer worthwhile keeping open.