most effective monk hero build(s)?

Rence

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

28 Apr 2011 at 17:36 - 1
I'm having a difficult time figuring out the most effective build for my monk heroes. I've looked at several popular builds found on the internet but it seems that opinions are divided as to which is most effective .

I usually run with 2 monks in my party which consists of the basic NF heroes for now. I tried running one monk with a variation of the UA+DH+HD+gift build and the other with WoH and I've noticed that the UA monk would refuse to cast DH/HD as long as there's only one party member dying and makes the WoH monk do all the work. So I doubled up UA but it didn't seem to force them to act differently.

I also see a variety of dedicated healer builds where most of the skills are heal spells. I don't think bringing only one monk with this type of build would be sufficient healing, but seems two pure healers would be unnecessary as well.

Finally, there's the WoH hybrid with prots on pvxwiki which I haven't tried yet. I was wondering whether heroes are able to run this properly i.e not spam PS. Would running one of these plus a WoH/HB actually give the best result?

Would be great if anybody could share their experiences with me and suggest a build or pair of builds that heroes can use properly.

majoho

majoho

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Denmark

28 Apr 2011 at 19:09 - 2
For normal content one healer and a half protter should be enough.

Something like

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Mo/any_Generic_Healer
Doesn't matter that much which elite you take.

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_Sa...er_Necromancer
The first version that is with prot prayers.

You can run your other monk as a Smiter, obviously it all depends on what skills you have unlocked.

Gard

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2009

N/

28 Apr 2011 at 19:50 - 3
You should disable PS and micro it. Hero's tend to use it often, making them run out of energy quite fast.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

29 Apr 2011 at 00:59 - 4
The most effective Monk hero builds are this one and its variants:

12 + 1 + 1/2/3 Smiting Prayers
12 Divine Favour

Unyielding Aura [E] (or Ray of Judgement [E])
Smite Hex
Smite Condition
Reversal of Damage
Smiter's Boon
Castigation Signet
Divine Healing
Heaven's Delight

Dedicated healers are pretty bad in PvE, but if you want to use them use either an E/Mo Infuser or N/Rt healer.

Rence

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

29 Apr 2011 at 01:41 - 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gard View Post
You should disable PS and micro it. Hero's tend to use it often, making them run out of energy quite fast.
Yeah that's what I was worried about and I'm trying to avoid having to micro anything. So if I don't want to micro, then I guess a prot build isn't for me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeydra View Post
The most effective Monk hero builds are this one and its variants:

12 + 1 + 1/2/3 Smiting Prayers
12 Divine Favour

Unyielding Aura [E] (or Ray of Judgement [E])
Smite Hex
Smite Condition
Reversal of Damage
Smiter's Boon
Castigation Signet
Divine Healing
Heaven's Delight

Dedicated healers are pretty bad in PvE, but if you want to use them use either an E/Mo Infuser or N/Rt healer. Like I said, I ran a variation of this (Mo/Me with interrupts) and from my experience it seems heroes are willing to let a party member die than to cast DH/HD if no one else needs healing.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

29 Apr 2011 at 01:42 - 6
That's why Reversal of Damage is in the build ...

Rence

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

29 Apr 2011 at 01:59 - 7
The thing with enchantments is that I assume heroes will spam them every opportunity they get and I'm not sure if castigation with its 20 sec recharge would be enough to let them keep it up. And that's assuming they can even use it properly. Or am I thinking too much?

majoho

majoho

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Denmark

29 Apr 2011 at 15:12 - 8
Why not try it and watch?

hunter

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

29 Apr 2011 at 18:13 - 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeydra View Post
Dedicated healers are pretty bad in PvE, but if you want to use them use either an E/Mo Infuser or N/Rt healer. Are you nuts? UA healer (not your smite variant bullshit) is the strongest healer in the game with the strongest rez with the ability for both party (heavens delight x2) and single target heal (patient spirit, dwayna's kiss)

Combine dwaynas with a prot spamming E/MO and its supper effective

These 2 builds just took care of your backline. So now you can stack as much midline as you want.

UA
Patient spirit
Dwayna's kiss
Rejuv signet
cure hex
Heavens delight
divine healing
GOLE

Run this and tell me its in anyway inferior to N/Rt resto (lol)

Outerworld

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2010

UK

Gil Worz Is Srs [Bsns]

W/

29 Apr 2011 at 18:50 - 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter View Post
Are you nuts? UA healer (not your smite variant bullshit) is the strongest healer in the game with the strongest rez with the ability for both party (heavens delight x2) and single target heal (patient spirit, dwayna's kiss)

Combine dwaynas with a prot spamming E/MO and its supper effective

These 2 builds just took care of your backline. So now you can stack as much midline as you want.

UA
Patient spirit
Dwayna's kiss
Rejuv signet
cure hex
Heavens delight
divine healing
GOLE

Run this and tell me its in anyway inferior to N/Rt resto (lol) It's the prots you bring that are more important, the build Jeydra showed coupled with the common SoS/Resto hyrbrid is as much healing as you will need in PvE. Not only that, the UA/Smite bar provides damage as well, albeit only a slight amount but still more than a dedicated healer would.

Wenspire

Wenspire

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2008

USA - W.Coast

HiME

Mo/

29 Apr 2011 at 20:31 - 11
SoS restore hybrid would be sufficient healing as long as you had an MM along. Without an MM, I would be skeptical that it would be enough to keep a team alive long.

EFGJack

EFGJack

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2010

Finland

Pros At Inactivity [bleh]

W/

29 Apr 2011 at 21:44 - 12
Hunter, just because pvx recommends UA doesn't make it super-effective. A N Rt healer is miles ahead of UA and it doesn't need an E Mo bonder to make it worthwhile.

Mike Jack

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2011

A place where people like to emo bond.

[EMO]

E/Mo

29 Apr 2011 at 21:59 - 13
I liked how he emphasized that UA pumps out the most heals when coupled with an emo even though an emo pumps out more heals than UA (about 250 health healed per second, very unlikely on hero though)

Bandwagon

Bandwagon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2010

D/

29 Apr 2011 at 23:29 - 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by hunter View Post
Are you nuts? UA healer (not your smite variant bullshit) is the strongest healer in the game with the strongest rez with the ability for both party (heavens delight x2) and single target heal (patient spirit, dwayna's kiss)

Combine dwaynas with a prot spamming E/MO and its supper effective

These 2 builds just took care of your backline. So now you can stack as much midline as you want.

UA
Patient spirit
Dwayna's kiss
Rejuv signet
cure hex
Heavens delight
divine healing
GOLE

Run this and tell me its in anyway inferior to N/Rt resto (lol) Its inferior to N/Rt (lol), then again E/Mo heroes hog everything, the prot, the redbar, the energy consumption.

I love how people build bars based on the presumption that your going to die.
Self fulfilling prophecy? Honestly I only advise UA if its your first time in an elite area and you cannot stand getting party wiped from a screw up on your first few playthroughs.

Rence

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2005

30 Apr 2011 at 02:12 - 15
this is the kind of divided opinion I was talking about

so if we could all get back to the topic of a monk hero build...

I don't think one dedicated healer would be enough for my party but two would probably be inefficient. A lot of people like the UA+DH+HD build but I watch my heroes and they prefer waiting for the single target heal to recharge than to use DH/HD if only one party member needs healing. So I guess UA+HD+DH is better for areas with AoE damage?

I might try the smiter build and run 2 of them, but is RoD something I need to micro like PS? Or is the cost low enough that heroes can get away with spamming it?

Mike Jack

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2011

A place where people like to emo bond.

[EMO]

E/Mo

30 Apr 2011 at 02:44 - 16
They could get away spamming it if they gained 9 energy every time a non-spirit creature dies.

Otherwise, you'll need to run like Castigation+2 insp. skills or it kills your energy and is sadly one of the few things worth running with Smiter's Boon.

Wenspire

Wenspire

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2008

USA - W.Coast

HiME

Mo/

30 Apr 2011 at 05:05 - 17
I also noticed heroes not using DH/HD much.

Instead of running WoH or UA, try Healing Burst. The recharge is just 1 sec longer than WoH but you get the "splash" heal which helps out a lot. I'm not a big fan of healer/prot hybrids on a hero so I normally have a dedicated prot hero which seems to keep EN up very well without the use of EN management skills. The healer hero takes the brunt of the work on my hero setups.

LexTalionis

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2011

30 Apr 2011 at 05:45 - 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wenspire View Post
I also noticed heroes not using DH/HD much.

Instead of running WoH or UA, try Healing Burst. The recharge is just 1 sec longer than WoH but you get the "splash" heal which helps out a lot. I'm not a big fan of healer/prot hybrids on a hero so I normally have a dedicated prot hero which seems to keep EN up very well without the use of EN management skills. The healer hero takes the brunt of the work on my hero setups. Except that bit about Healing Burst you know, disabling all your smiting skills.

I wouldn't say N/Rt nor E/Mo are the "best" healers in the game - Restoration has a bad habit of being lazy with healing until the last minute and E/Mo with Infuse Health becomes a royal headache of having no concept of priority with Necromancer minions. Glyph of Lesser Energy on a hero is kind of ugh though. Personally I find it easiest just to take Blood is Power on another hero and then the main advantage of the N/Rt (Nevah runs out of energeee!) is mostly moot and I don't have to force my monks into /Me for Power Drain nor take stupid things like Signet of Castigation.

Also lets you secondary spec into Protection Prayers easily or use a few 10 energy skills. Healing Seed is surprisingly effective on heroes.

Other advantages of monks: access to strong version of Dwayna's Sorrow (probably the best cover enchantment in the game and super kiss buff), good hex removal (not a futile endeavour if you use enough mesmers).

I'm wondering if 7 heroes and the subsequent freeing up of an elite slot for the viability of Blood is Power will enable the revival of the BoonProt. Maybe I should do a test.

Edit: Boonprot still ugh.

Wenspire

Wenspire

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2008

USA - W.Coast

HiME

Mo/

30 Apr 2011 at 06:39 - 19
Easy solution... don't bring smiting skills on your healer. If you really want smite skills, put them on your protector. Healers are better off having all their energy available to perform their task of red-barring, rather than spliting it up doing something else then not having enough available to keep people from dying.

Just my $0.02...

Lodar Aric

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2006

Blackburn, UK

The League of Friends [LoF]

E/

30 Apr 2011 at 09:07 - 20
These days I tend to run Healing Burst on the monk hero, I find in most areas with a MM with prot spirit + aegis and a ST communing rit plus SOS rit with a couple of heals it works well. If I need extra healing I would probably add a necro/rit healer.

Not much of a fan of E/Mo prot/healer heroes.

LexTalionis

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2011

30 Apr 2011 at 09:33 - 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodar Aric View Post
These days I tend to run Healing Burst on the monk hero, I find in most areas with a MM with prot spirit + aegis and a ST communing rit plus SOS rit with a couple of heals it works well. If I need extra healing I would probably add a necro/rit healer.

Not much of a fan of E/Mo prot/healer heroes. Necromancer Minion Master + Protective Spirit = YUCK. He's going to be too busy during battles to use it effectively at all, and this is compounded if you use Death Nova.

Also, I've just finished extensive testing with ST + Prot Spi and Aegis and I can confidently say that while Aegis is still semi-useful since Displacement resilience is meh at best, Shelter and Protective Spirit is extremely redundant and only doubly so if you bother precasting Shelter (and precasting is frankly the only reason I'd put Protective Spirit on a Minion Master). Frankly, you'd get better results with Healing Seed or Shield of Absorption. It even creates issues with the AI where it will happily squander energy on Protective Spirit even though Shelter is up and healthy.

As far as supportive skills on Minion Masters go, I'm much more of a fan of "Stand your Ground!" or other shouts that can be effectively used while casting (multitasking). If you're going heavily into Healing Prayers, there usually is very little reason not to take Healing Seed - it's the closest thing Healing Prayers has to a Protection Spell, the duration is very respectable and it's a soft counter to splinter barrage, scythes, char arrows and many many more things, at least far too many to list offhand (Enemy AI is not very good at changing targets when one target is low on health).