6th Year Economist Bonus - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

October Jade

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

drifting between Indiana and NorCal

03 May 2011 at 03:37 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

I'm actually really fascinated by the economy of this game, so if you wanted to elaborate...

The GW economy isn't really that complex. You can boil it down to only a few concepts and see how they piece together:

1) Items are static. With a few exceptions, nothing you acquire in the game will ever disappear. That means that the supply of any given weapon/mini/tonic will only grow over time.

2) A component of the demand for a particular good is the availability of similar goods (call them substitutes). You can witness this every year when the birthdays happen... the prices of old minis drop when new ones are released. The more options that exist, the less money players are willing to exchange for any one of them.

The combination of these two factors means that, ceteris paribus, prices in the goods market will continue to fall in the long run. However, it does get a little more complicated when you introduce the money market, particularly due to reason 1 above. With so few marginal costs associated with gameplay, platinum has a tendency to just accumulate which can cause inflationary pressure. This is why goldsinks are implemented: to help drain resources from the game.

The magnitudes of these opposed effects is what determines price.

thedarkmarine

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

03 May 2011 at 04:17 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by October Jade

The GW economy isn't really that complex. You can boil it down to only a few concepts and see how they piece together:

1) Items are static. With a few exceptions, nothing you acquire in the game will ever disappear. That means that the supply of any given weapon/mini/tonic will only grow over time.

Not entirely true. Items "disappear" when materials are used for crafting, gold is lost to merchants (as you'll mention), weapons are customized, and mini's are dedicated. It slows the rate at which the quantity grows. Your overall conclusion is not affected, but I thought I'd just point this out.

spun ducky

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

WTB: q8 bows

R/N

03 May 2011 at 06:39 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedarkmarine

Not entirely true. Items "disappear" when materials are used for crafting, gold is lost to merchants (as you'll mention), weapons are customized, and mini's are dedicated. It slows the rate at which the quantity grows. Your overall conclusion is not affected, but I thought I'd just point this out.

I would assume that is why he added the few exceptions. In most high end gear people tend to not customize it out of fear of wanting to sell it eventually hence why q7 weapons and the like are still floating around most of the same from previous years.

Coast

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Belgium

Whats Going On [sup]

Mo/

03 May 2011 at 07:16 - 44

don't fear my man, they getting cheap alrdy(destroyer dropped with 400e alrdy as an example, could be lower by the time i typed this down alrdy!)

Mcsnake85

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2009

Italy

E/P

03 May 2011 at 08:24 - 45

I Still dont understand why ppl complain about those things...
Really...
All you need to play the game is : weapons and armors, that can be buy for cheap, just get the weapons/armors with max stats without care about skin and you are ready to do everything.
Minipets,Tonics,Rare-Skin Weapons/Armors ARE all optional things that dont give advantage in game...Minipets dont attack mobs,Tonic forms dont give you extra points to spend on build or extra powers,Cristalline Sword with max stats gold and r9 have the same stats of a blue/purple longsword....
So please stop complain,there is no sense on do it...

Swingline

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2010

Somewhere far away from you

The Mirror of Reason[SNOW]

W/

03 May 2011 at 08:26 - 46

as the days go by(and I mean just a few days) they will drop. Soon...

White = <100k

Purple = <30e

Gold = 75-100e

Green = 150-200e

and the less popular tonics will drop far below what I even said.

@ above... ppl like to look cool.

Gabs88

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2011

03 May 2011 at 08:55 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feathermoore Rep

200e is nothing compared to playing the game??? What game are you playing? Numerous people have played through the entire game HM and NM and haven't amassed nearly as much as that.

Quit trolling. Use moar facts.

Now if you had said that the tonics were given at random just like the previous gifts, and that the random odds of obtaining one that was worth 200e was still left up to chance, I'd give you more credit. However the price base for these tonics are nowhere near the value of the original oldest year/rarest minipets. But all of this can be attributed to new rares being introduced to the game, where the only way to obtain more is to wait for other characters to age and then randomly generate more. The prices of these will go down as market supply increase, but they still will be excessively expensive. Why? beacuse there is simply nothing left to buy in the game to people who have amased x000s of ectos.

200e is a very easy amount to amass.

AFK Vanquishing Services, pretty much any zone in EOTN will earn you 8e + your drops @ 125 per kill, very easy to find clients in EOTN or Tyria.
Mission runs 10-12e \ hour
Dungeon runs - 8-30e \ hour depending on how good you are and what dungeons you run.
AFK Glints Challenge - 1e every 20 minutes AFKing.
Farming Vaettirs or Raptors in holiday weekends, 10e per hour.
FoWSC or UWSC 8e \ hour easy, chance of drops worth much more
UW or FoW farming 8-12e \ hour
SoOSC - Random drops but can be extremely profitable
Dedicated GVG or HA play, 500-1000e per month
Running EOTN tours, 5 or 6k per person. 2 runs an hour in the weekends, 70-80k \ hour.
Feather Farming not in holiday weekends, 20-30k \ hour. In Holiday weekends 40-50k \ hour.
Powertrading - Almost unlimited amounts

All this said, it has gotten significantly harder to get rich just playing the game normally. But in return farming is more profitable then ever

majoho

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Denmark

03 May 2011 at 09:07 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verene

You know that Anet doesn't set the price for these things and that the players do, right? It's not like they can say "You cannot sell this item for more than 100k" or anything like that.

They'll drop in price - they already are dropping from what they were at Thursday night.

I think his point is more why are they tradeable at all.

Gabs88

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2011

03 May 2011 at 09:27 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

I think his point is more why are they tradeable at all.

Cause it would be RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing boring if you couldn't trade them? Imagine someone getting Everlasting Kuunavang or Destroyer and not even liking the damn tonic \ minipet.

Most players with a brain can figure out a way to make very good money in this game.

Bright Star Shine

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2009

Belgium

Club of a Thousand Pandas [LOD???]

E/

03 May 2011 at 12:15 - 50

To be honest, why is this a problem? I want to tank DoA as a Margonite, just for lulz, because I think it's funny to see ~30 margonites trying to bash another Margonite's head in. Just to really screw with things. The fact that I am not playing for 6 years should not be a restriction to this. Since the way you look is purely cosmetic, and it doesn't add anything to your gameplay except for some laughs you can have, why should then only 6th year people get it?

Also, if they couldn't be traded, and someone got an El Dunkoro, but he really wanted that El Miku, it would be totally unfair towards this person that he could not acquire his Miku tonic and would be stuck with a lame ass Dunkoro.

So, they should be tradeble, and unless they were all the same tonic, they should not be not tradeble (if that makes sense).

Lest121

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

Army of Darkness

A/Mo

03 May 2011 at 12:54 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinta_himura

Some of the new 6th Year tonics are 200+ ectos... What I'm wondering is, why are these tonics even tradeable? They're a 6th Year Anniversary gift to old players, but there are people who come in to the game, play for maybe 6 months, abuse the economy to become insanely rich and buy whatever they want.

The point of a video game is to play it. I'm sick of Arena Net catering to the rich. Almost every high-end or extraordinary item that has come into the game since EOTN is just a bonus for speed clearers or rich people.

The current system won't change, but I am praying they customize birthday gifts and gift giveaways in GW2, I was gonna make this thread few weeks ago, it's RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up when some random dude goes to a convention wins a prize and turns it into profit, while you can't even attend the same convention because it's half way around the world..

Dzjudz

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz

03 May 2011 at 13:49 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lest121

The current system won't change, but I am praying they customize birthday gifts and gift giveaways in GW2, I was gonna make this thread few weeks ago, it's RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up when some random dude goes to a convention wins a prize and turns it into profit, while you can't even attend the same convention because it's half way around the world..

Then you get the argument mentioned by Lasai in post #10, that people will complain that they can never get it because they can't even attend the same convention because it's half way around the world, so in that sense it being tradable would actually make it more accessible to people.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

03 May 2011 at 14:43 - 53

In GW2, I think that should be given an exclusive bound to account mini dhuum that also targets the nearest player character and dhuum slices them, causing a disconnect. Being a mini version, ofc its smaller banhammer wouldnt work very effectrively, and it wont do anymore than run around DCing people.

It should be completely untradable, and no one else should be allowed to get one, surely this makes complete sense in the spirit of the OP.

Bright Star Shine

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2009

Belgium

Club of a Thousand Pandas [LOD???]

E/

03 May 2011 at 14:56 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

FoWSC or UWSC 8e \ hour easy, chance of drops worth much more
UW or FoW farming 8-12e \ hour

I'd like to see you get 8-12e farming in UW for an hour.

Also, UWSC unless performed by experience guilds is very hard to yield you 8e/hour..

Best way is still DoASC imo.

40min runs, 80k/run, 1 run/day will yield you ~300-350e/month. That's only doing 1 run/day, in a dedicated DoASC guild you can get 3-4 runs/day easily if you have the time for it.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

03 May 2011 at 15:02 - 55

I really doubt that Gab's ecto rates are anywhere near accurate, but yes, shadow form did kill PVE farming.

If you are really bothered about the virtual economy in GW, then you should try focusing your efforts more towards the joke that is shadow form.

Painbringer

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

Minnesota

Black Widows of Death

W/Mo

03 May 2011 at 15:06 - 56

It shows how stupidly over infalted everything is after the shadow nightmare expliot Anet blinded eye ecto farm.

thedarkmarine

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

03 May 2011 at 15:43 - 57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Painbringer

It shows how stupidly over infalted everything is after the shadow nightmare expliot Anet blinded eye ecto farm.

Supply and...

you know what, i'm not even going to try any more.

You're right. I fully agree with you!

RedStar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

_____________________ (\__/) (\__/) (\__/)Help (='.'=)(='.'=)(='.'=)Bunny (")_(")(")_(")(")_(")

[Bomb]

E/

03 May 2011 at 15:47 - 58

Eternal Tonics are almost completely useless :
-you can't show off your character
-they can't be put in the HoM (the main reason for the sudden increase in minipets price)

Their price will more than quickly fall.

(And before someone goes "omg how dare you say they are useless, QQ moar, never happy, it's free stuff" : I didn't mean "useless" in a bad way but, well, they are almost useless. You use them to see a character for you own pleasure, they don't do anything else).

Voodoo Rage

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

Sacramento, CA

Geezers

R/

03 May 2011 at 15:52 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by October Jade

1) Items are static. With a few exceptions, nothing you acquire in the game will ever disappear. That means that the supply of any given weapon/mini/tonic will only grow over time.

Keep in mind that a lot of players are leaving the game, so over time there are more abandoned accounts (and permanently banned accounts too). So definitely items obtained in the past (like a mini-Kuunavang) are going to decrease in supply over time.

Tyrole

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2009

03 May 2011 at 16:50 - 60

I suspect 6th year tonics will drop in price quite consistently. Unlike minipets (which I actually expect to stay stable in price - or possibly rise - as GW2 approaches), the ELs can't be dedicated. The dedication aspect, along with the calculator to make it easy, adds instant value to an item because it, in a very slight sense, let's you "take it with you" to GW2.

And as someone who has been playing since the very beginning but doesn't like farming and has periods of inactivity, I can say it's nice to be able to sell my ELs to filthy rich collectors immediately when they come out and be able to now afford my 30/50 for GW2. If you're not filthy rich, then you should just be patient - ELs have nothing beyond cosmetic value.

Voodoo Rage

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

Sacramento, CA

Geezers

R/

03 May 2011 at 17:16 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrole

I suspect 6th year tonics will drop in price quite consistently.

Also as someone who used to blow my entire GW fortune on EL Z-chest tonics in the past. The novelty of the tonics wears off pretty quick, especially when there is nothing special about them at all at this point (remember when a Phantom floating around Kamadan was the most amazing thing ever?).

thedarkmarine

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

05 May 2011 at 00:28 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabs88

200e is a very easy amount to amass.

AFK Vanquishing Services, pretty much any zone in EOTN will earn you 8e + your drops @ 125 per kill, very easy to find clients in EOTN or Tyria.
Mission runs 10-12e \ hour
Dungeon runs - 8-30e \ hour depending on how good you are and what dungeons you run.
AFK Glints Challenge - 1e every 20 minutes AFKing.
Farming Vaettirs or Raptors in holiday weekends, 10e per hour.
FoWSC or UWSC 8e \ hour easy, chance of drops worth much more
UW or FoW farming 8-12e \ hour
SoOSC - Random drops but can be extremely profitable
Dedicated GVG or HA play, 500-1000e per month
Running EOTN tours, 5 or 6k per person. 2 runs an hour in the weekends, 70-80k \ hour.
Feather Farming not in holiday weekends, 20-30k \ hour. In Holiday weekends 40-50k \ hour.
Powertrading - Almost unlimited amounts

All this said, it has gotten significantly harder to get rich just playing the game normally. But in return farming is more profitable then ever

just to re-emphasize, that is far from "just playing the game"

Voodoo Rage

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

Sacramento, CA

Geezers

R/

05 May 2011 at 01:04 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedarkmarine

just to re-emphasize, that is far from "just playing the game"

Just playing the game in NM, you will usually make about 5-10k a day minimally even if you are just playing like an hour or so. Maybe playing like 200 days a year would get you 200+ ecto a year.

Araiia

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2009

USA

05 May 2011 at 16:28 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

Just playing the game in NM, you will usually make about 5-10k a day minimally even if you are just playing like an hour or so. Maybe playing like 200 days a year would get you 200+ ecto a year.

You gain 5-10k a day while going through the storylines, because most of the storyline quests (etc) give some gold and item rewards. What about when you run out of quests?

Granted this was a several years ago and prices were different, but my friend who got me into GW was a casual player and although he played daily he gained very little gold. Getting a set of 15k elite was a huge accomplishment for him and he basically sat back and quit the game after he was done.

One thing I'd like to point out is "casual" often also fits "not using Wiki." I've met a pretty high number of people in-game who specifically hate on wikibuilds (either want to be original, think they're overpowered, think they're stupid, or what not) -- a mission/quest/dungeon that would take 30-60 minutes with the "modern balanced team" (panic, ua/hb, imba, etc) could take many hours for a "casual" who is playing the game differently.

You could say its their fault for running "inferior" team setups, but the fact is it takes a certain degree of ambition or desire to min-max for people to go seeking out "the best" builds in the first place, and that soon crosses over the line of being "casual."

Voodoo Rage

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

Sacramento, CA

Geezers

R/

05 May 2011 at 16:37 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Araiia

You gain 5-10k a day while going through the storylines, because most of the storyline quests (etc) give some gold and item rewards. What about when you run out of quests?

I'd argue that if you've run out of quests, if anything, you are going to make MORE money because most players at that point have moved on to farming, more advanced areas, hard mode play etc... If someone is just hacking away at level 2 Termites outside of Kamadan for fun, then they are clearly the exception. Even in NM play, you are going to get a normal rate of drops. Even salvaging things like runes off of blue armor drops and selling them to a merch is going to earn you a significant stream of income as long as you are actually playing the game.

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

06 May 2011 at 00:45 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by shinta_himura

"It's a reward for having played for a long time."

Exactly. So why does anet give these things to the market?

Things like the CE miniatures, or the /bonus miniatures, should be like the /bonus weapons, customized and not tradeable, and you be able to spawn as many as you want.

But birthday presents are random, and you may get two of the same. That's the main reason why I don't think they should not be tradeable.

Otherwise I would be stuck with my 5 minotaurs, 4 harpies and only the six knows how many wallows.

w00t!

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Sorrow's Furnace Hot Tub

RoS

Mo/Me

06 May 2011 at 03:49 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

I'm actually really fascinated by the economy of this game, so if you wanted to elaborate...

Oh I agree Voodo, the economy is fascinating, partly due to the fact that most people don't understand the concept of supply/demand and marginal utility (you, and many on this thread, are clear exceptions). It doesn't approximate a real economy, but it has some very interesting dynamics.

The part that baffles me is that people continually complain about the obvious aspects of the economy, and either want something for nothing, or want to take away from others.

One place where Guild Wars does approximate real life is that many confuse the difference between equal opportunities and equal outcomes.

Ghull Ka

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Seattle, WA

Grenths Helpdesk

N/

06 May 2011 at 20:27 - 68

Read the release by the game developers.

A paraphrase of what ANet said about it:

"They're tradable so if you get one you like, you can keep it, but if you don't like it, you can trade it. That way everyone's happy."

VikingHaag

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2011

Rio de Janeiro

[Lost]

Mo/

13 May 2011 at 23:36 - 69

I think that this presents are quite okay, but i still keen on complaining, the tonics and minis should be tradeable, but ONLY after being opened. Would you sell your IRL birthday present without opening it and seeing what it is? It may sound kinda silly, but it makes sense imo. And btw, those who complain, i started playing again last week, i easily made over 80 ectos without powertrading, and pugs for speedclears are always available. So get your hands dirty and try speedclearing, it's fun, easy and profitable.

tummlykins

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2010

14 May 2011 at 02:40 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by FengShuiDove

...

It's the exact same as with any mini. It's a reward for having played for a long time. And in the grand scheme of things, 200e is paltry compared to what you can get just playing the game.

You mean farming the game. Playing the game rewards people with very VERY little. Playing the markets and farmign the tedious and monotonous SCs is how you get rich.

I agree that birthday presents are a rediculous source of free income for players who met a redundant condition. I deleted all of my toons when Factions came out and remade them because I liked the character appearances of Factions facial custmisation, I get my "presents" long after I originally got my account. Conversely there are people in pre-searing with several tonics on their toons because they had entire accounts full of pre toons (or got them from friends who didn't care about the game and didn't bother leaving pre on multiple characters) and thus have an incredibly rare and valuable item back there.

Hopefully in GW2 items that will be tradable for great amounts of money will be exclusive to in game achievements and not redundant conditions or competition prizes. At the same time it would suck to get a mini whiptail devourer and not be able to trade or buy a bone dragon if you wanted one (easy to fix though).