Other than grinding for Etcos in UW and SC, Would you consider Zquests as Endgame content?
Because from a certain discussion in GW2Guru, there was a discussion about endgame content.
EDIT: I should've put this in the title, but what would you consider as Endgame content in Guild Wars 1?
Would you consider Zquests as Endgame content?
Miteshu
lemming
UW/FoW, Deep/Urgoz, DoA, organized PvP.
Bright Star Shine
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Originally Posted by lemming
UW/FoW, Deep/Urgoz, DoA, organized PvP.
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cosyfiep
no, its additional content that rehashes content...nothing new or endgame about it. (you do the same missions, kill the same bosses....nothing new here--just incentive to do them repeatedly).
majoho
Well that again depends how you define endgame.
I guess quest listed as (Difficulty: Elite) could be considered the only real Endgame content in the game.
I guess quest listed as (Difficulty: Elite) could be considered the only real Endgame content in the game.
Kunder
Pugging is by far the hardest end game content I have ever encountered.
Miteshu
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Originally Posted by majoho
Well that again depends how you define endgame.
I guess quest listed as (Difficulty: Elite) could be considered the only real Endgame content in the game. |
Ok Dont Panic
Well I guess if you look at them as ONLY HM missions. HM Vanquishes HM Dungeons (boss bounties that are in elite areas dungeons) then yes. It is end game. But if you look to them as Nm missions NM dungeons then no.
Although having said that looking at dungeons.. you could class them all as end game content as only one (and after completing it once it becomes more difficult) dungeon is actually needed to be completed to finish EoTN.
I see end game as FoW/DoA/UW/Deep/Urgoz/Dungeons[HM]/Organized pve
Title grinds Missions/Vanquishes/Dungeons/Non organized Pvp.
So it's sort of a cross between the two. Generally speaking when you go to complete a campaign it will be in NM. So the Zmissions are an incentive to go and complete them in HM. You can only unlock HM by completing the game in NM so it could be very easily classed as End game. By this logic you can apply it to all missions/dungeons/vanquishes. But again its personal preference
Although having said that looking at dungeons.. you could class them all as end game content as only one (and after completing it once it becomes more difficult) dungeon is actually needed to be completed to finish EoTN.
I see end game as FoW/DoA/UW/Deep/Urgoz/Dungeons[HM]/Organized pve
Title grinds Missions/Vanquishes/Dungeons/Non organized Pvp.
So it's sort of a cross between the two. Generally speaking when you go to complete a campaign it will be in NM. So the Zmissions are an incentive to go and complete them in HM. You can only unlock HM by completing the game in NM so it could be very easily classed as End game. By this logic you can apply it to all missions/dungeons/vanquishes. But again its personal preference
gremlin
Endgame in pve is the last mission where the storyline finishes and everybody cheers and lives happily ever after or not.
Dunno about pvp I guess when you have beaten everybody which could take quite a while.
Repeating anything in the game be it hard mode or not isn't endgame content though it could be considered bonus content.
Just my opinion of course.
Dunno about pvp I guess when you have beaten everybody which could take quite a while.
Repeating anything in the game be it hard mode or not isn't endgame content though it could be considered bonus content.
Just my opinion of course.
Lord Dagon
its not endgame content.
UW/FoW and DoA are the hard endgame content then the easy endgame content Urgoz/Deep.
UW/FoW and DoA are the hard endgame content then the easy endgame content Urgoz/Deep.
Chthon
Arguably, anything that would normally be approached after the end of the NM mission line is "end game" content.
Accordingly, that would be:
(Obviously, some things are harder than others, and some things offer better rewards, but they are all "end game" content.)
Accordingly, that would be:
- Underworld
- Fissure of Woe
- Sorrow's Furnace
- Ruins of the Tombs
- Deep
- Urgoz's Warren
- Domain of Anguish
- Non-primary-quest EotN dungeons
- All of HM
(Obviously, some things are harder than others, and some things offer better rewards, but they are all "end game" content.)
Martin Alvito
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Originally Posted by lemming
UW/FoW, Deep/Urgoz, DoA, organized PvP.
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Either you're playing for wealth, you're playing to make title bars go up, you're playing for rating and capes (bragging rights), or you're playing for some combination of the above. We can lump storyline completion in with "make title bars go up".
ZQuests were designed to help players group by directing them to the same endgame content (mission/dungeon/vanquish) on any given day. Calling them "endgame content" is probably inaccurate. Completing them can be part of a title grind strategy, and they could in principle be used as part of a loot farming strategy but it would be horribly inefficient.
Darknes Lives Again
Imo Endgame content is the content, where organised teams make a difference compared to "pugs". Such as DoA/GvG/UW/FoW/Deep/Urgoz. Everyone can run any HM dungeon with the new hero update and a conset.
For the zqeust question: I think a bounty like killing "Black beast of aargh" is endgame, but killing a boss right outside a town or completing Chabehk Village is not.
For the zqeust question: I think a bounty like killing "Black beast of aargh" is endgame, but killing a boss right outside a town or completing Chabehk Village is not.
hitsuji182
HA and GvG is the endgame of Guild Wars.
majoho
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Originally Posted by gremlin
Endgame in pve is the last mission where the storyline finishes and everybody cheers and lives happily ever after or not.
Dunno about pvp I guess when you have beaten everybody which could take quite a while. Repeating anything in the game be it hard mode or not isn't endgame content though it could be considered bonus content. Just my opinion of course. |
Bright Star Shine
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Originally Posted by Lord Dagon
its not endgame content.
UW/FoW and DoA are the hard endgame content then the easy endgame content Urgoz/Deep. |
The Deep and Urgoz used to be incredibly hard to do, but thanks to powercreep, one can easily do both of them <20mins if you want.. Same goes for Sorrow's Furnace, that also used to be rather tough, now it's reduced to being a cakewalk most of the time..
Arduin
If going by MMO standards endgame is what happens after you reach the level cap.
So 90% of GW is endgame.
So 90% of GW is endgame.
floor
Winning a Gold Cape is the ultimate endgame imo.
I dont personally feel that there is any part of PvE that can really be thought of as a massive achievement. My own opinion is that if you can farm it, or complete it repeatedly, which almost every quest/mission/boss/dungeon in pve can be with practise, then its not enough of a challenge.
To go into GvG, win the monthly tournament and get a gold cape on the other hand, most people can gvg for years and never achieve it, and the number of people who went on to win more than 1 gold cape, is probably not much greater than 50. This is such a tiny fraction of the entire playerbase it shows what an achievement this is.
For me this is the ultimate challenge, its my idea of endgame content.
I dont personally feel that there is any part of PvE that can really be thought of as a massive achievement. My own opinion is that if you can farm it, or complete it repeatedly, which almost every quest/mission/boss/dungeon in pve can be with practise, then its not enough of a challenge.
To go into GvG, win the monthly tournament and get a gold cape on the other hand, most people can gvg for years and never achieve it, and the number of people who went on to win more than 1 gold cape, is probably not much greater than 50. This is such a tiny fraction of the entire playerbase it shows what an achievement this is.
For me this is the ultimate challenge, its my idea of endgame content.
gremlin
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Originally Posted by majoho
I would disagree with that, endgame content is what you do when you have done the main storyline in the game - that's how it is in every other mmo (raiding).
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Its all about the difference between the end of game and end game content ie things you can do only after you finish the game, I was confusing the two.
cthulhu reborn
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Originally Posted by Kunder
Pugging is by far the hardest end game content I have ever encountered.
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Considering that max level is 20 and 80% of the actual content is level 20 content (this is a rough estimate made by myself) I would say that most of the game is endgame content. It's also something that is a strong point about GW1.
The makers of the game really didn't expect people to put in as many hours as they would in a MMO and this created a few challenges for them. Some of the solutions were pretty handy but it still depends on who you talk to. Title hunting, filling the HoM etc. I agree that places like UW/FoW/DoA/Deep/Urgoz are more typical end game places but the whole zquest thing was a less successful thing in my view.
It lacks decent rewards and it is about repeating stuff you've done before. I think in basis the idea could work but it was implemented way too late for older players because they already rehashed it to help friends etc.
I used to be interested in equipment packs but, well, since my account got hacked and emptied out I don't have a need for them and well, the small sized ones (one or two rows) did me just fine as it was.
Embark Beach was a good idea as well, but also a little on the late side.
Still, I don't mind buying z-keys with balth faction to make some extra money in game. Also the last storyline that was added, didn't really do it for me because I don't like rangers and you didn't even have the option to do it with friends if you wanted to. Maybe they should make em soloable in NM and 4-man squads in HM or something.
All the flaws and opinions aside though, there are very few games that have this many things to do for max level characters and I think that's fair to mention as well.
Reformed
It's a way to bribe people into rehashing content for the nth time and to encourage grouping OP. Zaishen in and of itself is not endgame content but it can direct players towards the endgame.
Iuris
Depends on how you define "endgame".
In most MMOs, endgame is "what to do when you reach the max level". So they stuff in some extra hard areas/raids/dungeons and let you grind it out forever.
GW1 and 2 approach this differently. Here, it's "give players at max level" something to do (not that they don't have some elite areas, mind you, they do). GW1 does this by setting max level extra low and adapting most of the game to that level. GW2 does this with downscaling player level to keep even low level areas a challenge.
Looked at this way, Zaishen quests are intended to A) focus the community onto a single task and B) make players avoid repetition by making different tasks appealingly well rewarded.
So, yeah, I do consider them endgame.
In most MMOs, endgame is "what to do when you reach the max level". So they stuff in some extra hard areas/raids/dungeons and let you grind it out forever.
GW1 and 2 approach this differently. Here, it's "give players at max level" something to do (not that they don't have some elite areas, mind you, they do). GW1 does this by setting max level extra low and adapting most of the game to that level. GW2 does this with downscaling player level to keep even low level areas a challenge.
Looked at this way, Zaishen quests are intended to A) focus the community onto a single task and B) make players avoid repetition by making different tasks appealingly well rewarded.
So, yeah, I do consider them endgame.
Chthon
1. I realize belatedly that I forgot to answer OP's actual question. ZStuff is "end game" when the goal happens to be part of the end game content, and not when it's not. So, "Kill Duncan" ZB? End game. Kill Captain Wahli ZB? Not end game.
2. It seems that a lot of folks take a very narrow definition of "end game" that just doesn't square with the plain meaning of the term or how it's used in MMOs in general. What you're really describing is "really hard content" or "gives bragging rights content." It's fine to set this stuff off in its own category, but it should get its own label instead of a misdefinition of "end game content."
3. I left a few things off my prior list:
2. It seems that a lot of folks take a very narrow definition of "end game" that just doesn't square with the plain meaning of the term or how it's used in MMOs in general. What you're really describing is "really hard content" or "gives bragging rights content." It's fine to set this stuff off in its own category, but it should get its own label instead of a misdefinition of "end game content."
3. I left a few things off my prior list:
- Titan quests
- War in Kryta
- Winds of Change (coming soon)
majoho
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Originally Posted by Chthon
2. It seems that a lot of folks take a very narrow definition of "end game" that just doesn't square with the plain meaning of the term or how it's used in MMOs in general. What you're really describing is "really hard content" or "gives bragging rights content." It's fine to set this stuff off in its own category, but it should get its own label instead of a misdefinition of "end game content."
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Like I said previously ELITE Quests is the closest you get to Raiding which is THE PvE endgame.
I wouldn't consider doing daily quests in WoW endgame so doing zquests aren't really either (except ofc they ask you to go kill Duncan or Stygian thingies).
Cuilan
If you plan on doing Zaishen quests daily on a character, than you're likely "endgame" with most of the locations. Some Zaishen quests even have you doing things in elite areas. Even if it's something earlier in the game, the quests generally attract people who've at the very least finished the main story(s).
Darknes Lives Again
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Originally Posted by floor
Winning a Gold Cape is the ultimate endgame imo.
I dont personally feel that there is any part of PvE that can really be thought of as a massive achievement. My own opinion is that if you can farm it, or complete it repeatedly, which almost every quest/mission/boss/dungeon in pve can be with practise, then its not enough of a challenge. To go into GvG, win the monthly tournament and get a gold cape on the other hand, most people can gvg for years and never achieve it, and the number of people who went on to win more than 1 gold cape, is probably not much greater than 50. This is such a tiny fraction of the entire playerbase it shows what an achievement this is. For me this is the ultimate challenge, its my idea of endgame content. |
. Not many know or can perform the current speedclear records like DoA/UW/Fow. I think you need to see PvP and PvE totally apart from eachother in Guildwars.
Ghull Ka
Post 2 got it right.
Sadly this game doesn't have good endgame content like WoW raids.
The feeling of "tension and equilibrium" in WoW when a raid encounter starts is unlike anything I've found in another game. The "keep it all together" ritual that happens with damage in, damage out, and healing, combined with "individual jobs" that differ in each encounter -- tons of fun. Really feels good to know you're part of a cohesive unit, and that if this unit fails, then you don't kill the boss.
The rest of WoW's endgame, the "eternally chase gear upgrades" can kiss my blue furry butt... that kind of loot treadmill is NOT what I want in any other game.
But the "feel" of a WoW-style endgame boss encounter is something that GW definitely misses. Urgoz, Kanaxai and Mallyx all fail on achieveing this "feel". Dhuum pretty much does also. In GW, half the battle for "endgame content" is bringing the right team build before you leave town -- once you're in front of the boss, it's pretty much the same as every other fight in GW.
Sadly this game doesn't have good endgame content like WoW raids.
The feeling of "tension and equilibrium" in WoW when a raid encounter starts is unlike anything I've found in another game. The "keep it all together" ritual that happens with damage in, damage out, and healing, combined with "individual jobs" that differ in each encounter -- tons of fun. Really feels good to know you're part of a cohesive unit, and that if this unit fails, then you don't kill the boss.
The rest of WoW's endgame, the "eternally chase gear upgrades" can kiss my blue furry butt... that kind of loot treadmill is NOT what I want in any other game.
But the "feel" of a WoW-style endgame boss encounter is something that GW definitely misses. Urgoz, Kanaxai and Mallyx all fail on achieveing this "feel". Dhuum pretty much does also. In GW, half the battle for "endgame content" is bringing the right team build before you leave town -- once you're in front of the boss, it's pretty much the same as every other fight in GW.
enter_the_zone
Wait, I thought PVP was the endgame content and everything else was just stuff to keep us PVE noobs occupied?
I'd say Z-Quests and most everything else which has significantly greater rewards in, or requires, HM is effectively endgame because at least one of your chars has to have completed the game (ie. finished the storyline.... aka reached the end of the game) to access HM. For the most part, not especially hard endgame content, but that's the way it goes.
I'd say Z-Quests and most everything else which has significantly greater rewards in, or requires, HM is effectively endgame because at least one of your chars has to have completed the game (ie. finished the storyline.... aka reached the end of the game) to access HM. For the most part, not especially hard endgame content, but that's the way it goes.
gremlin
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Originally Posted by enter_the_zone
Wait, I thought PVP was the endgame content and everything else was just stuff to keep us PVE noobs occupied?
I'd say Z-Quests and most everything else which has significantly greater rewards in, or requires, HM is effectively endgame because at least one of your chars has to have completed the game (ie. finished the storyline.... aka reached the end of the game) to access HM. For the most part, not especially hard endgame content, but that's the way it goes. |
Companies are out to make money and a pvp game must be easier to program than a pve one.
Why on earth would they spend probably 90% of their total game programming time on something that is essentially just a preliminary to the real game.
GW is both a pvp and a pve game and though pve is easier than pvp it is in no way inferior.
Essence Snow
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Originally Posted by Ghull Ka
But the "feel" of a WoW-style endgame boss encounter is something that GW definitely misses. Urgoz, Kanaxai and Mallyx all fail on achieveing this "feel". Dhuum pretty much does also. In GW, half the battle for "endgame content" is bringing the right team build before you leave town -- once you're in front of the boss, it's pretty much the same as every other fight in GW.
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Reformed
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
My issue with Dhuum is that, for a boss he can be beaten very easily using niche setups and very difficult in other circumstances. Pretyy much takes the epicness out of it for me.
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