Early announcement of the skill update - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

X Dr Pepper X

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

The Mirror of Reason [SNOW]

R/

20 May 2011 at 02:32 - 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ka Tet

Doing one of my regular checks. Is it safe to say the game still sucks, and it's not worth returning?

Yes.

ANet does not even know where to begin to fix GW1.

Only high level players with intricate knowledge off how the game works can do that.

ANet should be scrapping their old Test Krewe and building another one but screening for qualifications of skill, knowledge, and insight.

Ka Tet

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Pita Bread And Scud Missiles Ai[iiii]

20 May 2011 at 03:46 - 82

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

Yes.

ANet does not even know where to begin to fix GW1.

Only high level players with intricate knowledge off how the game works can do that.

ANet should be scrapping their old Test Krewe and building another one but screening for qualifications of skill, knowledge, and insight.

Shame, it had the potential.

Essence Snow

Unbridled Enthusiasm!

Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

20 May 2011 at 04:40 - 83

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadar

Why are you still in this thread? That is quite saddening.

Very simple.....the pvp updates never soley affect pvp....the spill over in pve is what concerns me. Not too hard to understand I would assume....idk I might be wrong.

Elnino

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2008

In a house

Proof Of A Nets Laziness[HB]

A/W

20 May 2011 at 04:54 - 84

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Very simple.....the pvp updates never soley affect pvp....the spill over in pve is what concerns me. Not too hard to understand I would assume....idk I might be wrong.

You actually use AoB and Harrier's Grasp in PvE?

X Dr Pepper X

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

The Mirror of Reason [SNOW]

R/

20 May 2011 at 05:20 - 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elnino

You actually use AoB and Harrier's Grasp in PvE?

AoB isn't bad in PvE.

I run a SF ele and a Para w/ ToF when I use AoB on my Derv. It works well enough.

Its suitable enough as an alternative build on your character you want to run for fun.

Shadar

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2006

Croatia

[ACID]

Me/

20 May 2011 at 11:11 - 86

Quote:

Originally Posted by tealspikes

All damage is already converted into holy/dark/chaos damage depending on the Avatar. Conjure spells don't work, otherwise people would have stacked them on Grenth dervishes day 1.

That is true but someone suggested to change Avatars so each one converts dmg to a different element (Balthazar->fire Grenth->cold etc.) which would then lead to conjure abuse.
To that my fix was to make them all convert to earth dmg since there is no Conjure Earth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

the spill over in pve is what concerns me.

Yes, that is quite concerning since pve is hard and any "spill over" might make it impossible!

Destrudo

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2011

20 May 2011 at 14:19 - 87

Quote:

Very simple.....the pvp updates never soley affect pvp....the spill over in pve is what concerns me. Not too hard to understand I would assume....idk I might be wrong.

The two skills that have been nerfed... One is for cripple which is a minor condition in PvE, the other is still somewhat usable but never was that spectacular in that format.

The spill-over into PvE right now isn't that significant. The two are still viable if you want to use them, and cons and/or 7h makes the vast majority of PvE ridiculously easy.

Quote:

Doing one of my regular checks. Is it safe to say the game still sucks, and it's not worth returning?

Yeah.

In addition to what Dr Pepper said, as you probably know Dervs are still one-man armies capable of steamrolling most in PvP by button mashing to produce ridiculous amounts of pressure and damage. PvE always was a joke since late-Factions to early-NF, and nothing has been done to improve that.

There isn't any real point to return (or stay) aside from friends for most people.

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

20 May 2011 at 14:48 - 88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Krizan

damage types on dervishes are stupid; holy damage lol,
Avatar of Balth should be fire, Avatar Of Grenth should be cold, etc...
or give us inscriptions for +10 against holy damage etc...
don't destroy IAS, add penalty on it like frenzy
make fleeting stability prevent KD conditional like if you're wielding a shield...

I mean dervish is an All-in-one class: you can snare, lineback without penalty on DPS, have A LOT of armor while outputting A LOT of damage, you don't even need to switch weapons to fake people on shield switching because you have holy damage lol...

GMs should start playing the freaking game before they update skills.

I agree on the damage type thing but only to a point. We're talking about reducing every class by +10 armor from shield set if an Avatar is used. So you can't use a shield set to reduce damage unless it's from Ebon Dust Aura base damage.

Hate to say it but as far as lore goes, you don't want the avatars to be earth damage except for Melandru.

Krill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

America

20 May 2011 at 16:01 - 89

You'd think after repeating the same mistake of ridiculous buffs --> trash meta nobody likes --> nerf countless times anet would quit trying to jam a square peg into a round hole. Even if this does nerf dervs out of most PvP the damage has been done, there were not enough players left for another round of this crap. Hope I'm wrong and there's a bounce back in GvG / HA but it doesn't seem likely at all.

X Dr Pepper X

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

The Mirror of Reason [SNOW]

R/

20 May 2011 at 17:27 - 90

There aren't enough people left from ANet's already established trash meta of SC and SF abuse anyway. Not to mention the cold shoulder they've given to PvP formats.

Honestly, to save this game, ANet would have to fundamentally rework it from the ground up.

Its like a piece of artwork so mangled up and ruined that there's no way to restore it aside from starting over.

GW2 is the product result of GW1's failure.

Iuris

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

Crazy ducks from the Forest

W/

20 May 2011 at 18:02 - 91

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

GW2 is the product result of GW1's failure.

The product of GW1's success you mean.

GW1 is simply old and the developer's primary focus has moved on. It's still the great old game, we're just playing it way more than we're supposed to. That's why it feels stale. That's why it feels "easy" - because everyone has already drilled it through a thousand times.

Ghull Ka

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Seattle, WA

Grenths Helpdesk

N/

20 May 2011 at 18:12 - 92

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iuris

The product of GW1's success you mean.

GW1 is simply old and the developer's primary focus has moved on. It's still the great old game, we're just playing it way more than we're supposed to. That's why it feels stale. That's why it feels "easy" - because everyone has already drilled it through a thousand times.

I heartily agree.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

20 May 2011 at 18:18 - 93

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadar

Yes, that is quite concerning since pve is hard and any "spill over" might make it impossible!

These updates are quite concerning since PvP is hard and any "spill over" might make it impossible. PvP does have its effects on PvE. There, posted edited less poorly.

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

20 May 2011 at 18:40 - 94

I am still waiting for the WoC update to start playing again. As far as the update goes, I think the stuff Stumme has been doing the past few months has been fantastic really. It may not be the content that everyone wants, but he has hit upon a good number of things that needed fixing and has also given us stuff that we didn't know would be fantastic and they were.

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

20 May 2011 at 19:23 - 95

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

These updates are quite concerning since PvP is hard and any "spill over" might make it impossible. It's so unbalanced the solution is to add more power creep since it doesn't matter.

Wait, that's a lot of what I hear, but then primary PvP players suddenly complain about an imbalance.

wat

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

I am still waiting for the WoC update to start playing again. As far as the update goes, I think the stuff Stumme has been doing the past few months has been fantastic really. It may not be the content that everyone wants, but he has hit upon a good number of things that needed fixing and has also given us stuff that we didn't know would be fantastic and they were.

I hope Flux isn't in that category.

I'm all for everything he's done regarding the PvE side of things, but when the best PvP "balance" updates fall under the category of damage control, something is fatally wrong;.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iuris

GW1 is simply old and the developer's primary focus has moved on.

That's a godawful excuse for the poor balancing we've seen. If GW1 PvP really is being officially abandoned, why not leave it in a static environment that had a healthy amount of variation, like it was immediately preceding the dervish update?

Swingline

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2010

Somewhere far away from you

The Mirror of Reason[SNOW]

W/

20 May 2011 at 20:47 - 96

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

That's a godawful excuse for the poor balancing we've seen. If GW1 PvP really is being officially abandoned, why not leave it in a static environment that had a healthy amount of variation, like it was immediately preceding the dervish update?

I have to agree with this. IMHO Dervish was fine before it got buffed. I knew people that could play the dervish better than any other class I have seen before the update. Not to mention warriors have been dragged through the mud because of all this dervish nonsense.

AndrewSX

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2010

Italy, Turin

Lake

E/

20 May 2011 at 21:06 - 97

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

That's a godawful excuse for the poor balancing we've seen. If GW1 PvP really is being officially abandoned, why not leave it in a static environment that had a healthy amount of variation, like it was immediately preceding the dervish update?

I totally agree with this. Maybe before we had some profs easier to play at 100% (or decent pvp level btw) and some a bit harder or with more/less "Meta" builds for them, but everything was still balanced quite fine.

Now we have Dervs, OP and easy as ---- to use, vs all the rest. It's the size of gap which makes me say that's a problem.

If you ask me, the old derv was silly for the stop-must-cast-my-enchs ideas, which makes it less effective versus kiting pvp players.
The only really needed changes were imo:
-Introduce Flashench (but not so many and OP)
-the new mysticism, the armor addiciton is opinable thought
-change just the most underused/stupid skills.

Not give IAS+IMS+Adren gain+maintainable+cripple everything+pressure+....

DiogoSilva

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2011

Girl

E/

20 May 2011 at 21:16 - 98

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

I totally agree with this. Maybe before we had some profs easier to play at 100% (or decent pvp level btw) and some a bit harder or with more/less "Meta" builds for them, but everything was still balanced quite fine.

Now we have Dervs, OP and easy as ---- to use, vs all the rest. It's the size of gap which makes me say that's a problem.

If you ask me, the old derv was silly for the stop-must-cast-my-enchs ideas, which makes it less effective versus kiting pvp players.
The only really needed changes were imo:
-Introduce Flashench (but not so many and OP)
-the new mysticism, the armor addiciton is opinable thought
-change just the most underused/stupid skills.

Not give IAS+IMS+Adren gain+maintainable+cripple everything+pressure+....

Maybe that's why John Stumme had said that there wouldn't be any more "huge" profession updates.

Those updates change so much, and once they go on, a lot of imbalances are found and it takes months to adapt them to everything else.

I would prefer something more like tweaking a large number of interesting but underpowered skills, with small number changes, and the same in inverse regarding OP skills. Kinda like the nerfs they have been doing to the dervs since their update, but in buff form to the other professions.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

20 May 2011 at 21:22 - 99

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

wat

I just redirected the mindless comments often made about PvE back at PvP in how changes don't matter, PvE is always easy and skill changes for PvP never spill over (which I quoted).

Reverend Dr

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]

W/

20 May 2011 at 21:31 - 100

The more I think about it, the more I have become convinced that every major problem in GW (every single one of them) is either directly cause by powercreep or has powercreep as the major confound.

I was tempted to write up a big long post, but what is the point? Those that believe powercreep is a problem already think this way. Those that don't believe it is a problem are, at the end of the day, simply not going to have their opinions changed. No point in posting about it to the community.

Really it is more of an issue to direct to the group of Anet in charge of supporting GW1. Of course they legally cannot even read these forums (or some similar bullshit that is contradicted by their posting and responding on this forum). And if they were open to changing their balancing philosophy they would have done so long ago. So again, what is even the point of writing something up?

Arnold Killmachine

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2009

20 May 2011 at 21:41 - 101

Let dervishes have 3-pip energy regen to actually make them vulnerable to spamming aura thorns/onslaught, in other way it only targets secondaries not the derves themselves.

Shadar

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2006

Croatia

[ACID]

Me/

21 May 2011 at 01:20 - 102

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

These updates are quite concerning since PvP is hard and any "spill over" might make it impossible. PvP does have its effects on PvE. There, posted edited less poorly.

The effects of PvP balancing on PvE are miniscule considering you have PvE-only skills and consumables which are designed to make the game piss easy for everyone not good enough to play it otherwise.
Also, pretty sure this upcoming update won't make any SCs slower or whatever.

Please don't quote me again.

NerfHerder

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2010

21 May 2011 at 03:23 - 103

GvG skill balancing has a huge effect on casual PvP, and still manages to undermine effectiveness of many PvE builds. You cant compare GvG skill nerfs that overspill into PvE to PvE skills and SF SCs. Those are two totally different problems.

However, you can compare the effectiveness of an AoB Derv over the course of the last few skill updates in PvE. And you can see why PvE'rs are just as upset with skill balancing as GvG'rs are when balancing effects thier meta. ANet tries not to skill split, but its obviously more necessary than they realize.

Personally, the PvE Dervish nerfs wont effect me much. I'm more concerned over the current state of Rangers, Eles, Paras, and smite Monks. They dont need huge profession changing updates(that too could have disasterous effects on PvP), they just need a few skill changes to keep them balanced to other professions. Not to mention, we could use some more content to take advantage of the nice updates we got.

Essence Snow

Unbridled Enthusiasm!

Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

21 May 2011 at 03:28 - 104

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadar

The effects of PvP balancing on PvE are miniscule considering you have PvE-only skills and consumables which are designed to make the game piss easy for everyone not good enough to play it otherwise.
Also, pretty sure this upcoming update won't make any SCs slower or whatever.

Please don't quote me again.

Not always and there is the lil fact that it effects at least 4X the amount of people. That in itself makes it far from miniscule. Condsidering pvp is mainly meta vs meta it should be piss easy to figure out what the other teams are running...unless your not good enough to play it.....See what I did there.....quoted for fun

ErrantVenture

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2010

Social Darwinism [SaD]

A/W

21 May 2011 at 05:15 - 105

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

The more I think about it, the more I have become convinced that every major problem in GW (every single one of them) is either directly cause by powercreep or has powercreep as the major confound.

I was tempted to write up a big long post, but what is the point? Those that believe powercreep is a problem already think this way. Those that don't believe it is a problem are, at the end of the day, simply not going to have their opinions changed. No point in posting about it to the community.

Really it is more of an issue to direct to the group of Anet in charge of supporting GW1. Of course they legally cannot even read these forums (or some similar bullshit that is contradicted by their posting and responding on this forum). And if they were open to changing their balancing philosophy they would have done so long ago. So again, what is even the point of writing something up?

The developers definitely recognized this. That's why GW2 has been designed so that powercreep is more or less impossible. There's a very limited pool of skills in GW2. As long as they don't keep introducing new skills (like they did in GW1) or better equipment, powercreep cannot happen.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

21 May 2011 at 05:30 - 106

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErrantVenture

As long as they don't keep introducing new skills (like they did in GW1) or better equipment, powercreep cannot happen.

Just wait for the expansions. It might happen at a slower rate, but it's inevitable.

Aljasha

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2009

21 May 2011 at 09:52 - 107

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Simply put, the number of guilds that have some idea of how the game works but aren't yet in contention for anything has plummeted in Europe and is virtually zero in America.
[...]

This doesn't contradict my statement, though. I agree with your point(s), but I think the problem of the gvg crowd is the bad skill balance and not the age of the game or the departure of a major chunk of the gvg crowd. Anet has the chance to relaunch gvg with some good balance updates and decisions. If they accomplished this, they could reform that critical mass by hand.

One can wish.

Reverend Dr

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]

W/

21 May 2011 at 12:07 - 108

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErrantVenture

The developers definitely recognized this. That's why GW2 has been designed so that powercreep is more or less impossible. There's a very limited pool of skills in GW2. As long as they don't keep introducing new skills (like they did in GW1) or better equipment, powercreep cannot happen.

They announced GW2 in 2007, then kept powercreeping the game for 4 years.

But seriously "They are going to fix it in GW2" is a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO all useless argument. We are not talking about GW2, we are talking about this game. Also you are just flat out wrong. You can very much have powercreep without new skill additions (see the last 4 years). If Anet doesn't actually learn what contributes to powercreep then it won't take long for their "diversity" buffs to powercreep their next game into the shitter.

instanceskiller

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2008

Myst

A/

21 May 2011 at 13:58 - 109

Meh nothing really interesting. I hope they follow up on their recent string of slight buffs to elementalists in the next few updates.

AndrewSX

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2010

Italy, Turin

Lake

E/

21 May 2011 at 14:31 - 110

The "Recent slight buffs to eles" are just a fix awaited for 4+ years.
The fact of have the only e-management of the prof is locked on 2-3 skills of the bar was already stupid. Have the most important (Attunement) be a 2 sec cast, 45 recharge enchantement was even more stupid.

Bflash buff wasn't expecetd only because not needed. Invoke/chain were buffed in recharge, and then toned down in damage.

@ DiogoSillva: I understand that Stumme do not want another large update, but HM PvE Rangers and Eles must be fixed(i'm start thinking that they decided to ignore this issue btw).
And i don't think that "Fix 2 pve skills and you'll be fine" way will be enough. Change them 1 attribute line at time if you prefer, to be sure you're not creating a new derv-like monster( remember that next should be Smiters and Motigons. Changes based on lines), but DO a massive overhaul.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

21 May 2011 at 17:40 - 111

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadar

The effects of PvP balancing on PvE are miniscule considering you have PvE-only skills and consumables

If you knew anything about PvE, you'd know that PvE skills don't for the most part require attribute points and many aren't tied to a profession at all. Same with consumables. Balance does matter in PvE as it's more than being able to do a simple quest or not.

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

21 May 2011 at 21:24 - 112

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

Balance does matter in PvE as it's more than being able to do a simple quest or not.

Not disagreeing with that, but how specifically do those two nerfs that weren't split affect PvE balance?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aljasha

This doesn't contradict my statement, though. I agree with your point(s), but I think the problem of the gvg crowd is the bad skill balance and not the age of the game or the departure of a major chunk of the gvg crowd. Anet has the chance to relaunch gvg with some good balance updates and decisions. If they accomplished this, they could reform that critical mass by hand.

One can wish.

What are the odds of that happening, though? At some point, there needs to be a critical mass of lower-ranked players getting better. If you look at the GvG in Crisis thread, there's quite a few complaints from new players about playing against smurfs, or at the very least, guilds far better than them.

Cuilan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Me/

22 May 2011 at 00:54 - 113

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Not disagreeing with that, but how specifically do those two nerfs that weren't split affect PvE balance?

They don't, I'm replying to this person's silly posts.

Still Number One

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2008

W/

22 May 2011 at 03:52 - 114

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

( remember that next should be Smiters and Motigons. Changes based on lines)

Oh hell no. no. no. no. no. no. please please please please no. The two worst things to ever be introduced to the game getting buffed again? NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO.

Every single time those two attribute lines were useful, the game was a million times worse than it is in its current state. Smiting is only useful if dreadfully overpowered or if it has healing capabilities (smiters boon). Neither one of those scenerios is good. Armor ignoring damage is way too powerful a factor to be buffed to numbers above what they currently are. The only way to not make them broken would be to make it fire damage instead of holy and we already have fire elementalists. There is no reason to have two attribute lines from different professions do the same thing. leave smiters dead, they need to be dead, they only ruin the game.

Motigons are the same problem. They are useless unless the numbers are big enough to be effective and if that is the case they are overpowered. Paragons do far too much damage to be allowed to add party support and healing. Both smiters and motigons are destroyed for a reason. THEY RUINED THE GAME.

Giving healing/support abilities to characters that can also deal massive amounts of damage is the worst thing you could possibly do. Characters should only be able to do one or the other, not both. And don't try using the excuse that A.Net will be careful and find common ground between the two. They won't. They never have, and there is 0 reason to believe they ever will. You think the Dervish update increased powercreep, well then wait and see what a smiter and motigon update would do.

no no no no no no a thousand times NO!

NerfHerder

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2010

22 May 2011 at 07:25 - 115

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

-snip-

A Rt can heal/support/damage and they are pretty balanced. A lil OP in damage in PvE, but you get the idea. As long as you cant deal damage and heal really well at the same time, its balanced.

I have alot more faith in ANet balancing attribute lines than huge profession overhauls. In the case of the Dervish only about 10 skills were really OP, and thats mostly in PvP. Anet has taken too long to fix the OP Dervish skills, but as GW players we should expect to have to wait, and I never expected it to be perfect. Even still, most of the Dervish skills were well balanced. ANet is capable of balancing skills, it just takes a LOOONG time.

Paragons should have something to do in PvP, and more than one build in PvE.

Monks should have an offensive build, in thier own flavor. The smiting line is currently only used for SoH, SF/Secondary abuse, and RoJ. And RoJ isnt all its cracked up to be.

It has been over a year since they said they were going to work on non-Imbagon Paragons and Smite Monks, so I wouldnt hold your breath on that update. Even still, alot of players think those attributes could use some attention.

Artisan Archer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2007

Free Wind

R/

22 May 2011 at 08:54 - 116

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

I have alot more faith in ANet balancing attribute lines than huge profession overhauls.

You mean like they did to blood magic and hammer mastery? That wasn't a succes either... PvP-wise anyway.

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

22 May 2011 at 11:10 - 117

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cuilan

They don't, I'm replying to this person's silly posts.

His core point is still mostly correct, though, no? Is it that big a deal that some people have their pet builds impaired because a niche skill that sees minimal play in PvE gets nerfed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NerfHerder

Paragons should have something to do in PvP

They do. Just like curse necros and dom mesmers and earth eles, it happens to not be a niche function that's useful in the current metagame. That's not a sign that they either need to or should be buffed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artisan Archer

You mean like they did to blood magic and hammer mastery? That wasn't a succes either... PvP-wise anyway.

Seriously.

Urcscumug

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2011

UNO

W/

22 May 2011 at 14:16 - 118

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Paragons are a useless profession.

Plus, they're not realistic. I mean, where do they keep getting those spears from, thin air? Come on!

Lanier

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

[Pink]

P/

22 May 2011 at 15:32 - 119

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urcscumug

Plus, they're not realistic. I mean, where do they keep getting those spears from, thin air? Come on!

Hehe, paragons should have been a melee profession to start with. Most of the spears ingame arn't very aerodynamic anyway. Plus, how badass would it be to be able to fight like a spartan soldier

On a more serious note, paragons definitely need buffs in PvE. Rits combine support with damage and healing, and the only overpowered thing about them is spirits (which is another issue for another thread). As long as paragons dont recieve skills that allows them to summon more bodies like rits and necroes do, there is nothing wrong with allowing them to fulfill multiple roles.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

22 May 2011 at 15:49 - 120

Well a large part, if not the whole problem, with paragons is that Strength of Honor doesn't work on ranged attacks, which never made any sense anyways. (In the old days, ye it would've been concidered OP, but now? Who gives a sht?!)

If SoH worked on ranged attacks, paragons would be on par, if not better with warriors. Also, before you go: W/D scythe -> Paragons can take a scythe aswell, aight?