Warrior class is getting useless
FoxBat
Over 2/3rd the enemies in the game pull their armor from a simple formula: level * 3 + profession/race modifiers. This was never "carefully balanced" in the first place, nor is changing one universal formula all that complex.
Urcscumug
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Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage
It's kind of a chicken or the egg thing. If we didn't constantly buff everything in an attempt to make every single profession equally desirable for high end PvE (which only a tiny fraction of population probably plays), the power creep wouldn't exist in the first place.
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I think (hope) that's what they've planned for GW2.
Anaraky
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Originally Posted by Urcscumug
Sometimes I think that Hard Mode shouldn't have been about quantity (more damage, more armor) but about quality: better AI, thus forcing players to use smarts and teamwork instead of skill buffs. We wouldn't have powercreep and we'd see more players working together instead of H/h.
I think (hope) that's what they've planned for GW2. |
Elnino
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Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage
I'm guessing that he's referring to the flawed mechanic of elemental damage in general in relation to armor.
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Skyy High
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Originally Posted by Urcscumug
Sometimes I think that Hard Mode shouldn't have been about quantity (more damage, more armor) but about quality: better AI, thus forcing players to use smarts and teamwork instead of skill buffs. We wouldn't have powercreep and we'd see more players working together instead of H/h.
I think (hope) that's what they've planned for GW2. |
AndrewSX
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Originally Posted by Urcscumug
Sometimes I think that Hard Mode shouldn't have been about quantity (more damage, more armor) but about quality: better AI, thus forcing players to use smarts and teamwork instead of skill buffs. We wouldn't have powercreep and we'd see more players working together instead of H/h.
I think (hope) that's what they've planned for GW2. |
Mobs have better builds and use them effectively, instead of have massive armor/health/HMstuff. This meaning that in HM they're still challenging even w/o have 324235355345345 elemental armor....the problem is that is nearly impossible to apply to rest of HM PvE content. I expect HM WoC to follow this pattern-better builds over massive stats-but that's all.
tealspikes
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Originally Posted by Urcscumug
Sometimes I think that Hard Mode shouldn't have been about quantity (more damage, more armor) but about quality: better AI, thus forcing players to use smarts and teamwork instead of skill buffs. We wouldn't have powercreep and we'd see more players working together instead of H/h.
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Tshedd31
is getting more like has been useless. while 100b in fowsc is much stronger than VoS, and it is stronger > 1 hit vs 2-3 < Mes spike is faster and i'm unsure why pugs haven't picked it up since even when a run goes a little slow it's just under a conset, and i haven't had very many sub 1 conset manly's since sf nerf
Kunder
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| Funny! Yes, playtesting would probably be the big thing here definitely - you can't just do a blanket nerf on all armor and expect everything to remain balanced. The actual coding would be quite simple and probably not crop up any bugs unless something stupid was done (though this is always a possibility). But just because you can do something doesn't mean it is a good idea to do it. |
Needing to playtest making the game harder makes some sense, but not really the other way around.
TheRakeman
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Originally Posted by Kunder
The worst that could happen by nerfing enemy armor down to a baseline is that PvE becomes too easy. Clearly several months of testing are worth avoiding this horrible problem so that we can keep PvE balanced. Oh wait...
Needing to playtest making the game harder makes some sense, but not really the other way around. |
If the problem is that armor ignoring damage is the only way to go, maybe lowering armor and raising health would be the solution. Of course this too could lead to problems, but probably better off for eles and other non-armor ignoring damage sources.
qazwersder
Make all skills armor respecting in HM.
Thing is, whatever changes are made, unless very carefully thought out, will mess things up. If a change is implemented and ele's become the meta damage dealers, the mop necro's, the sos rits, the mesmers, (and the rest) all possibly become unused.
We'll have necro's everywhere telling us theres nothing useful for them to play anymore.
Thing is, whatever changes are made, unless very carefully thought out, will mess things up. If a change is implemented and ele's become the meta damage dealers, the mop necro's, the sos rits, the mesmers, (and the rest) all possibly become unused.
We'll have necro's everywhere telling us theres nothing useful for them to play anymore.
DiogoSilva
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Originally Posted by qazwersder
Make all skills armor respecting in HM.
Thing is, whatever changes are made, unless very carefully thought out, will mess things up. If a change is implemented and ele's become the meta damage dealers, the mop necro's, the sos rits, the mesmers, (and the rest) all possibly become unused. We'll have necro's everywhere telling us theres nothing useful for them to play anymore. |
Lanier
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Originally Posted by qazwersder
Make all skills armor respecting in HM.
Thing is, whatever changes are made, unless very carefully thought out, will mess things up. If a change is implemented and ele's become the meta damage dealers, the mop necro's, the sos rits, the mesmers, (and the rest) all possibly become unused. We'll have necro's everywhere telling us theres nothing useful for them to play anymore. |
Missing HB
The safest a build is ( read , the best it will abuse mobs) , the highest chances it has to be meta.. The way SoS rits and MM necros can tank easily mobs and pump good damage just says it will remain meta as long as they will remain unchanged...
These are quite " must profession " and to make a link with topic , warrior isn't really a must at " tanking " or " dealing damage"... You see on a mesmer how effective fast casting is , on a necro how effective soul is... however on a warrior , the gain from strengh isn't really an evidence... apart of a few skills , i don't notice a huge gain on damage to be honest....
These are quite " must profession " and to make a link with topic , warrior isn't really a must at " tanking " or " dealing damage"... You see on a mesmer how effective fast casting is , on a necro how effective soul is... however on a warrior , the gain from strengh isn't really an evidence... apart of a few skills , i don't notice a huge gain on damage to be honest....
Anaraky
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Originally Posted by Missing HB
The safest a build is ( read , the best it will abuse mobs) , the highest chances it has to be meta.. The way SoS rits and MM necros can tank easily mobs and pump good damage just says it will remain meta as long as they will remain unchanged...
These are quite " must profession " and to make a link with topic , warrior isn't really a must at " tanking " or " dealing damage"... You see on a mesmer how effective fast casting is , on a necro how effective soul is... however on a warrior , the gain from strengh isn't really an evidence... apart of a few skills , i don't notice a huge gain on damage to be honest.... |
Swingline
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Originally Posted by TheRakeman
Good points
If the problem is that armor ignoring damage is the only way to go, maybe lowering armor and raising health would be the solution. Of course this too could lead to problems, but probably better off for eles and other non-armor ignoring damage sources. |
The main problem is the classes that deal damage not checked by armor. IMHO nerfing armor ignoring damage in HM would be the best solution instead of power creeping eles.
TheRakeman
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Originally Posted by Swingline
Problems include degen being even more useless in pve.
The main problem is the classes that deal damage not checked by armor. IMHO nerfing armor ignoring damage in HM would be the best solution instead of power creeping eles. |
ruk1a
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Originally Posted by NerfHerder
I think the most important question is, how do you balance a profession/attribute line when they become underpowered due to powercreep?
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Skyy High
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Originally Posted by TheRakeman
Of course, pushing mesmers back to pvp only status would be a bit counter-productive... but then again, why should ele's be stuck in that position?
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Lanier
Mesmers were not a damage oriented class in the past - they were a shutdown oriented class. Iv played mesmer for awhile, and what I liked about them was their shutdown capability.
Nerf mesmer's damage output - with skills like Panic and PI and shared burden, they'll still be able to shutdown efficiently.
Nerf mesmer's damage output - with skills like Panic and PI and shared burden, they'll still be able to shutdown efficiently.
slowerpoke
There's no useless professions only useless players.
AndrewSX
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Originally Posted by slowerpoke
There's no useless professions only useless players.
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Just forget the "Lot of armor, skills to increase hp, i'm the ultimate tank!" idea, pick SY!, a sword elite(or any other good one of your choiche), some buff for your damage and steamroll trough pve.
And do not became a Wammo, lol.
Mireles
i haven't played my warrior since people on acid decided to make hammers better and effectively ruin all my good hammer bars...warriors not worthless there still usable... there just not over powered like sins and dervishes... Dervishes do more damage.. and perma sins can tank better.... what does a war do better than other classes?... not a damn thing....
Anaraky
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Originally Posted by Mireles
i haven't played my warrior since people on acid decided to make hammers better and effectively ruin all my good hammer bars...warriors not worthless there still usable... there just not over powered like sins and dervishes... Dervishes do more damage.. and perma sins can tank better.... what does a war do better than other classes?... not a damn thing....
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LifeInfusion
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
Your barrage build must be terrible. Also, barrage spike damage scales with number of foes because of a little skill called splinter weapon. MoD doesn't let you test that.
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reaper with no name
Awww...are da poor widdle warriors sad dat dey aren't always the best at everything anymore?
Their only problem in PvP is that Anet doesn't realize how broken they made the dervish there.
And in PvE, the warrior is, for the first time, equal to the dervish. The dervish gets VoS, the warrior gets 100B. The dervish gets Pious Spam, the warrior gets Earthshaker. The dervish gets 50 different ways to heal people with AoD, the warrior gets 50 different ways to keep a single target on the ground indefinitely.
Warriors just need to realize that with the exception of 100B, their strength lies not in all-out damage, but in keeping enemies on the ground so they can't do anything (while the warrior kills them). If a warrior (who was designed to be a balanced frontliner with KDs) can ever outdamage frontliners designed specifially for the purpose of doing damage, then there is a problem. The warrior has to do less damage than the dervish and assassin, because it has better knockdowns. The fact that most warrior builds worth using now force it to do it's own job (rather than someone else's) is a good thing. It means PvE's frontliners are becoming (at least somewhat) more balanced.
Their only problem in PvP is that Anet doesn't realize how broken they made the dervish there.
And in PvE, the warrior is, for the first time, equal to the dervish. The dervish gets VoS, the warrior gets 100B. The dervish gets Pious Spam, the warrior gets Earthshaker. The dervish gets 50 different ways to heal people with AoD, the warrior gets 50 different ways to keep a single target on the ground indefinitely.
Warriors just need to realize that with the exception of 100B, their strength lies not in all-out damage, but in keeping enemies on the ground so they can't do anything (while the warrior kills them). If a warrior (who was designed to be a balanced frontliner with KDs) can ever outdamage frontliners designed specifially for the purpose of doing damage, then there is a problem. The warrior has to do less damage than the dervish and assassin, because it has better knockdowns. The fact that most warrior builds worth using now force it to do it's own job (rather than someone else's) is a good thing. It means PvE's frontliners are becoming (at least somewhat) more balanced.
Killed u man
There is some truth in the last post, but the toughest foes in this game have immunity to knockdowns, in more recent history the Titans from the Titan-quest series.
reaper with no name
And it's less effective than usual to use them against those enemies without earthbind or something, just like using physicals against melee-hate without cleaning, or SF against those things with soul-rending shriek, or minions against monsters with RoJ, or pious spam dervs against things with chillblains ("hey! you made me strip AoHM by accident, you horror flick reject!").
X-Bomb
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Originally Posted by NerfHerder
I think they should give the PvE Warrior a better IAS, and thats about all I would change.
In PvP the Warrior is one of, if not the most, balanced class in the game and the Dervish and Assassin should be tweaked to a similar standard. (ie. consequences for IAS, punishment for miss timed skills, etc.) Aside from a few seemingly dartboard buffs/nerfs, I doubt the Warrior will recieve any skill updates. More than likely you will see changes fto non-Imbagon Paragons, Smite Monks, and hopefully Ranger and Ele Buffs. |
A lot of people are missing the point here, while I agree warrior class is well balanced - it does not help at all in terms of being picked, because u have better classes to fill the warriors job. Either buff warrior or debuff the other classes
Anime Divine
also can i point out warrior have the highest hp
i enjoy having 1500 hp in doa. minimum of 800 without sweets
and still do the same damage as if they had a normal skillbar.
i enjoy being smashed by the initial spike while my heroes far away trying to keep up with my sprint and come just in time to heal me.
and as some people said is not about highest damage or tanking.
its about how versatile you can be and put your playstyle to good practice.
for examble 1 warrior has 4 playstyles to be effective destroyer
sword hammer/axe/spear
a dervish has 1style scythe
sin 2 styles dagger scythe
of course im just giving a example i dont know many effective builds for other classes.
i enjoy having 1500 hp in doa. minimum of 800 without sweets
and still do the same damage as if they had a normal skillbar.
i enjoy being smashed by the initial spike while my heroes far away trying to keep up with my sprint and come just in time to heal me.
and as some people said is not about highest damage or tanking.
its about how versatile you can be and put your playstyle to good practice.
for examble 1 warrior has 4 playstyles to be effective destroyer
sword hammer/axe/spear
a dervish has 1style scythe
sin 2 styles dagger scythe
of course im just giving a example i dont know many effective builds for other classes.
Ximvotn
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Originally Posted by Anime Divine
also can i point out warrior have the highest hp
i enjoy having 1500 hp in doa. minimum of 800 without sweets and still do the same damage as if they had a normal skillbar. i enjoy being smashed by the initial spike while my heroes far away trying to keep up with my sprint and come just in time to heal me. and as some people said is not about highest damage or tanking. its about how versatile you can be and put your playstyle to good practice. for examble 1 warrior has 4 playstyles to be effective destroyer sword hammer/axe/spear a dervish has 1style scythe sin 2 styles dagger scythe of course im just giving a example i dont know many effective builds for other classes. |
Venus was her name
Never seen so much rubbish in my life. Players who suck will suck period, regardless of build. Does it matter to them what your opinion is? No. If they're having fun and enjoying the game it's job done as far as i'm concerned.
Warriors just attract less experienced players (they do in most games) because their mechanics are simple yet yield high rewards. I'd take an inexperienced Warrior over an inexperienced mesmer or ele any day, and your group will be better for it. This game doesn't even NEED tanks so it's not like your missing anything.
Warriors work if you want them to just stop mixing your skills and trying to be a jack of all trades. Stack your bar with damage skills and buffs and smash PvE to pieces like a warrior should.
I only just returned to Gw after years away and the warrior builds i've seen so far are the best i've ever seen.
Warriors just attract less experienced players (they do in most games) because their mechanics are simple yet yield high rewards. I'd take an inexperienced Warrior over an inexperienced mesmer or ele any day, and your group will be better for it. This game doesn't even NEED tanks so it's not like your missing anything.
Warriors work if you want them to just stop mixing your skills and trying to be a jack of all trades. Stack your bar with damage skills and buffs and smash PvE to pieces like a warrior should.
I only just returned to Gw after years away and the warrior builds i've seen so far are the best i've ever seen.
Anaraky
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Originally Posted by reaper with no name
Awww...are da poor widdle warriors sad dat dey aren't always the best at everything anymore?
Their only problem in PvP is that Anet doesn't realize how broken they made the dervish there. And in PvE, the warrior is, for the first time, equal to the dervish. The dervish gets VoS, the warrior gets 100B. The dervish gets Pious Spam, the warrior gets Earthshaker. The dervish gets 50 different ways to heal people with AoD, the warrior gets 50 different ways to keep a single target on the ground indefinitely. Warriors just need to realize that with the exception of 100B, their strength lies not in all-out damage, but in keeping enemies on the ground so they can't do anything (while the warrior kills them). If a warrior (who was designed to be a balanced frontliner with KDs) can ever outdamage frontliners designed specifially for the purpose of doing damage, then there is a problem. The warrior has to do less damage than the dervish and assassin, because it has better knockdowns. The fact that most warrior builds worth using now force it to do it's own job (rather than someone else's) is a good thing. It means PvE's frontliners are becoming (at least somewhat) more balanced. |
If the Warrior class deserve lower damage then Dervishes it isn't due to KDs, it is because how reliable a Warrior is. Apart from melee hate in general there is pretty much no way to stop a Warrior from inflicting or absorbing pain in whatever way he chooses while Dervishes have additional vulnerability to Enchantment-stripping.
hunter
Warriors useless? wut?
head over to campfire hero and AI and you will soon change your mind.
head over to campfire hero and AI and you will soon change your mind.
doomfodder
bring back a version of the previous dwarven battle stance with exception that it doesn't end when you use a skill! Rupts with every attack. Warriors would THEN have PvE utility on par with other melee
russiansteven
There really is no way pleasing you people.
You buff a class, in this case the dervish, you get unhappy and ungrateful players whining and complaining that their class can't overpower the other class.
Another example? The mesmer buff---Ranger players were unhappy due to the mesmer interrupting better than they ever could.
In the first place, Rangers were never meant to be masters of interrupts but rather tamers and masters of the wild, using pets to deal with enemies. The dervishes and warriors are completely different classes. I don't play this game anymore so excuse me if I don't understand the current meta but Warriors can KD better than anyone (Says hesitantly, looking at Panic mesmer) although they can still tank the hell out of most mobs. Just make your own builds and mix it up, you'll find something worth playing.
You buff a class, in this case the dervish, you get unhappy and ungrateful players whining and complaining that their class can't overpower the other class.
Another example? The mesmer buff---Ranger players were unhappy due to the mesmer interrupting better than they ever could.
In the first place, Rangers were never meant to be masters of interrupts but rather tamers and masters of the wild, using pets to deal with enemies. The dervishes and warriors are completely different classes. I don't play this game anymore so excuse me if I don't understand the current meta but Warriors can KD better than anyone (Says hesitantly, looking at Panic mesmer) although they can still tank the hell out of most mobs. Just make your own builds and mix it up, you'll find something worth playing.
Lishy
As a warrior mainer, I find they have the best synergy with heroes of any profession due to the versatility of weapons a warrior is capable of using, and the buffs available.
Our Virus
What I get from this is you aren't great at making warrior builds. Run derv until you can
cataphract
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Originally Posted by russiansteven
In the first place, Rangers were never meant to be masters of interrupts but rather tamers and masters of the wild, using pets to deal with enemies.
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EPO Bot
The most useless warrior i ever saw was one with nothing but tank skills who just ran into mobs and did nothing.
I'm shure he tought he was being totally meta.
I'm shure he tought he was being totally meta.