Armor vs Health Vs Energy

HigherMinion

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

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I look at it like this:

Instead of Armour mods, why not use Prot Spirit?

lursey

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

d2

R/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion View Post
I look at it like this:

Instead of Armour mods, why not use Prot Spirit?
it takes up a skill slot

ErrantVenture

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2010

Social Darwinism [SaD]

A/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion View Post
I look at it like this:

Instead of Armour mods, why not use Prot Spirit?
The point of armor mods is that it's very similar to permanently having a prot on yourself. By running armor mods you can (in effect) give your backline an extra skill slot by permanently maintaining a prot on yourself.

EPO Bot

EPO Bot

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Mo/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion View Post
I look at it like this:

Instead of Armour mods, why not use Prot Spirit?
I'm SO tired of always having to bring that skill with me.

HigherMinion

HigherMinion

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Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

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It is not enough for Hard Mode ventures anyway, you still NEED to take PS somewhere in your team; push heals don't cut it when luring as a caster.

Xenomortis

Xenomortis

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Join Date: May 2008

UK

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion View Post
I look at it like this:

Instead of Armour mods, why not use Prot Spirit?
You generally do both for, what should be, obvious reasons

Lanier

Lanier

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

[Pink]

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The problem with + armor mods is that, unless you plan on buying entire multiple sets of armor for certain situations (im not talking about seperate headpieces - im talking about seperate armor sets), + armor mods are often too situational. Some classes, like a paragon for example (a paragon should always be under the effects of an IAS echo) can use + armor insignias on their armor because every single viable build that a paragon could use will always have it under the effects of an echo, if not also under the effects of a shout, at all times. Same goes for an elementalist, who should always be under the effects of an enchantment and should, therefore, use blessed insignias. Many of the other insignias though, are too situational for me to consider buying an armor set for. For example, I don't always spirit spam on my rit, so getting the ghostforge insignias for his armor would'nt be smart. Instead, I stick with survivor.

Therefore, if you know that any and every build that you use will give the +armor benefit, roll with the +armor. If not, i go with survivor.

My question for everyone is whether it is better to use +armor on a weapon or +health. Having +10-15 armor from insignias is better than having +40 health, but is having only +5 armor better than having +30 health?

Xenomortis

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

UK

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanier View Post
My question for everyone is whether it is better to use +armor on a weapon or +health. Having +10-15 armor from insignias is better than having +40 health, but is having only +5 armor better than having +30 health?
If you're constantly holding the weapon then the armour mod is superior.
For a shield set on a caster it depends a bit more on how you use it; if you only switch when low on health then a fortitude mod might be more useful.

Ximvotn

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2011

Health for my Necromancer always. Armor when running a build that relies on spirits, minions, enchants for example. Energy is usually hard to find a use for because I believe having more health makes you less likely to be targeted by aggro and only solo builds or specific builds need that much more in their pool.

Pugs Not Drugs

Pugs Not Drugs

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruk1a View Post
Assassin

All Health on armor with 5e on wep, do the math ;p

I have this on my gear 90% of the time.

Energy is easy as hell to manage, having the health as opposed to conditional armor is always best for me.
wouldnt it be better to put radiants on chest and body, and put snh as the insc?


15% more damage>25 health imo.





to answer your question, armor, always armor.

(on warrior, my main) 100 phys and 100 ele (i run sentinels) +5 from wep, +16 from sheild, +10 from shield. total of 121-131 armor depending on the type of damage im taking, which effectively reduces all damage i take by like 70 percent.

Anaraky

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion View Post
I look at it like this:

Instead of Armour mods, why not use Prot Spirit?
What the hell kind of argument against armor is that? You can either a) reduce all damage that is below 10% of your health or b) increase your health and thus increasing the amount of damage a single packet can do to you. Yeah, I'll go with the first alternative thank you very much.

Quaker

Quaker

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Aug 2005

Canada

Brothers Disgruntled

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanier View Post
is having only +5 armor better than having +30 health?
I'd say they are about the same. Which is probably why that's the values used. On average, the reduction in damage from +5 armor has roughly the same effect as +30 health.
Some of my Heroes have weapons with +30 health, some have +5 armor (some have neither). I can't say I see any difference overall - I mean, it's not like the +30 health guys keep dying and the +5 armor guys don't.
One big advantage +5 armor mods have is that they seem to be more common than +30 health mods.

HigherMinion

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraky View Post
What the hell kind of argument against armor is that? You can either a) reduce all damage that is below 10% of your health or b) increase your health and thus increasing the amount of damage a single packet can do to you. Yeah, I'll go with the first alternative thank you very much.
Imagine a 55hp monk with PS on, he's poisoned and he watches his health drop and he dies in seconds, even while PS is active.

Now you have 600hp and you're poisoned with PS on. You live alot longer with more health. You're welcome.

Xenomortis

Xenomortis

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Join Date: May 2008

UK

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion View Post
You live alot longer with more health. You're welcome.
Yeah, when you're talking about an 1100% increase in health.

Premium Unleaded

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

+5ar works at all health values when against regular damage.
+30hp only does anything when your health without said hp mod drops below 30hp.

Using the 55 monk as an example of why fortitude is better is just retarded.

MArcSinus

MArcSinus

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2010

The Netherlands

Are We Friends [NLT]

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I always take Survivor insignia's on my heroes, except for the paragons obviously.

The way I see it it's health > armor, my reasons:

1. Most people run a copy of "Stand Your Ground!" anyway
2. It's a great way to counter the heavy health loss from major and superior runes.
3. The AI tends to attack characters with less health first, you generally don't want that.
4. More survivability against armor ignoring damage, weaken armor and cracked armor.
5. Armor mods only apply to that particular armor piece.

Ximvotn

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2011

Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion View Post
Imagine a 55hp monk with PS on, he's poisoned and he watches his health drop and he dies in seconds, even while PS is active.

Now you have 600hp and you're poisoned with PS on. You live alot longer with more health. You're welcome.
Protective Spirit works best between those two figures in groups. Not 55 nor 600, but 480-550. Shield of Absorption plus Aegis go well with Protective Spirit. I like Survivor mods even on Monks because if I do bring a monk it's HB and very energy efficient (inspiration skills added). Blessed Insignias goes well with farming. I haven't toyed around with UA hero because I usually bring a Xinrae's Necro.

garethporlest18

garethporlest18

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

[HiDe]

W/

In PvE I don't think the +5 armor or the +30 health matters and it's basically personal preference. I take that opinion from my own personal experiences. I've had weapons with both, if I'm going to die..neither of those mods will stop that from happening. I don't have close calls, I either die completely or don't die at all.

Reverend Dr

Reverend Dr

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion View Post
Instead of Armour mods, why not use Prot Spirit?
Even when you look at it like that two big things come to the forefront.

1. There is no damn reason to take more damage. Ever. If you think taking more damage is going to make you or your team play better... I'm not going to finish that.

2. Spirit Bond is still better than Prot Spirit.

Anaraky

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion View Post
Imagine a 55hp monk with PS on, he's poisoned and he watches his health drop and he dies in seconds, even while PS is active.

Now you have 600hp and you're poisoned with PS on. You live alot longer with more health. You're welcome.
Yes because we are totally talking about niche farming builds here. Assuming your backline isn't worthless there isn't enough degen / armour-ignoring damage flying around to warrant using Survivor since you should have enough health to survive that initial spike anyway. Especially if using PS. If your healers cannot cope with poison your insignia choice is the least of your problems.

Also;
Quote:
Yeah, when you're talking about an 1100% increase in health.
This.

Surgo

Surgo

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2011

Energy, armor, and HP are an interesting problem.

If you have energy that's higher than hovering around zero when under pressure (but never stopping you from using skills), you probably have too much in the way of energy and should remove any energy bonuses. Those bonuses should go elsewhere, on something that's actually helping you out instead of +energy, which is obviously doing nothing for you.

HP and armor is more interesting. If your job is to draw aggro away from your team, and you aren't a specialized build like a perma sin, having higher HP can actually be detrimental to the tanking process due to the way aggro works (#1 aggro priority being the person with the lowest current HP). So feel free to sacrifice this for some armor.

Armor is useless if you aren't being hit, or are being hit by armor ignoring damage. HP is useful in that it can stop you from getting aggroed. Outside of that though, remember that you only die at HP 0 and not at anything above it.