Reward Creep - Increasing the reward for the same amount of work
It seems like in the last year this game has recieved more and more reward creep.
Wintersday Quest a 5x increase of the reward in 2010 vs 2009
April Fools Quest rewarding an excissevely high reward for the short joke quest it was
Fort Aspenwood (JQ, AB) despite the rewards being buffed several years ago, another nearly doubling of rewards
Consumables (party for example) starting out as 1 point(hello sparkler requires 10,000 to max party) going to 3 point varieties (hello crate) going to 7(disco ball requires 1429) point varieties now 50 point varieties (jesus beam -requires 200 to max party)
PVP now rewarding strongboxes as a free bonus reward
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Is it going to far?
Will it just keep going and by gw2 the rewards will devalue everything to near worthlessness?
Is this a strategy to retain casual players longer?
How effective are these changes at meeting the developers goals and what are the developers goals by introducing reward creep?
What are the pros and cons to reward creep?
Thoughts?
Reward Creep
melissa b
My New Name
anet is just trying to devalue us people who got our titles "the hard way", and they are doing hell of a good job at it...
yes it is going too far, and it will keep going that way... just ignore that shit and play your game, that is what i am going to do
yes it is going too far, and it will keep going that way... just ignore that shit and play your game, that is what i am going to do
Plutoman
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Originally Posted by My New Name
anet is just trying to devalue us people who got our titles "the hard way", and they are doing hell of a good job at it...
yes it is going too far, and it will keep going that way... just ignore that shit and play your game, that is what i am going to do |
There's several reasons.
#1 - Guild Wars is a relatively old game. People enjoy the new content, and they want new rewards. People play games for rewards - but not the same rewards for 6 years. They're adding in more high value content, making GvG more competitive for the top emote, while simultaneously making the rest of the content easier and more approachable.
#2 - They want titles to be more approachable to players who may play before GW2.
#3 - They want more people involved in PvP. Rewards will do that.
Alvarez
Nope, I don't mind what they're doing. That's all I have to say.
Hobbs
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Originally Posted by Alvarez
Nope, I don't mind what they're doing. That's all I have to say.
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JSX
I wouldnt mind the RA rewards if they kept RA as it was, but I agree with the codex stuff, that arena is just plain terrible idea
LordDragon
I got a lot of my titles "the hard way" and I am overjoyed at the changes. This has breathed new life into the PvP areas. Well, at least for now, more people are getting involved with PvP which is certainly a good thing.
Then again, I am not consumed with jealousy because someone can now get their title with less work than I put in. Oh the horror.... lol
Then again, I am not consumed with jealousy because someone can now get their title with less work than I put in. Oh the horror.... lol
lemming
People like big numbers. Look at how many people play JQ relative to three years ago.
Shrug.
Shrug.
Reverend Dr
Most people play mmo's not for enjoyment, but for the carrot. To keep those people around you have to keep replacing the old carrot with a bigger, newer, shinier one.
Xsiriss
They basically try to make things less of a grind...by giving us new stuff to grind for. It's overall a bit easier but still doesn't seem to make it more attractive to be honest.
Fay Vert
Increasing the reward is also a very good way to bring areas back to life, hence the weekend events. If there is one thing worse than a high reward, it's a dead game.
btw, I got all my titles the hard way too so to hell with that stupid theory.
btw, I got all my titles the hard way too so to hell with that stupid theory.
thunder boy
I like the new changes it brought new interest in PvP arenas. I know allot of ppl that grinded titles prior to to the changes may feel different but you got to realize that anet is preparing for GW2 and the more of us that pursue 50/50 in our HoM will more than likely get GW2 its good buisness for them imo
Darcy
I also achieved all my titles the "hard way." Does that make me resent the new rewards? No. I think it is great that someone will be able to complete their faction titles by having fun in JQ and FA and AB instead of having to vanquish the same areas over and over.
I completed my Kurzick title in JQ where I had a great time. But, due to the lack of participants on the Luxon side, I was unable to do the same with my Luxon title. The new Imperial Faction means more fun and that can never be wrong.
I completed my Kurzick title in JQ where I had a great time. But, due to the lack of participants on the Luxon side, I was unable to do the same with my Luxon title. The new Imperial Faction means more fun and that can never be wrong.
cosyfiep
I see no problems with it other than I like to collect stuff--making more consumables means I need more storage space (good thing I got some whilst is was on sale)...so now I want that battle iced tea and the party starter and one of each strongbox and the delicious cake and...........you get the idea right??? (not to mention the new envoy weapons 
)
so no problems with it here...just more space requirements---
)so no problems with it here...just more space requirements---
makosi
Let's not forget those who did LDoA the old way. What a slap in the face.
Kanyatta
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Originally Posted by melissa b
PVP now rewarding strongboxes as a free bonus reward __________________________________________________ _________ Is it going to far? Will it just keep going and by gw2 the rewards will devalue everything to near worthlessness? Is this a strategy to retain casual players longer? |
The point of the strongboxes (in addition to RP's and Zkeys), I always felt was to offer some sort of bridge for people who want to exclusively PvP (which was GW's main selling point from the start) to get shinier, rarer PvE rewards. That's why HoH always had the chest. Then in Factions, they started introducing more high-end armors, rare-skinned weapons, etc. And it only got worse with Nightfall and finally the shiz hit the fan in EotN.
People who only PvP'd kind of got sick of having only one armor type to look at for every single profession, and every player was a clone of the other on the battlefield. People were pumping in hundreds of hours into PvE characters and filling their entire inventories with weapon sets and different armors just to look cool for when they GvG'd.
I think that doing stuff like strongboxes and Tournament RP's is mostly just to keep the good PvP'ers around longer, and also to give some incentive for the PvE community to jump into PvP, since that was always what Guild Wars was about (even check out the name of the game, it was always about GvG).
melissa b
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Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine
It's because of people like you that keep QQ'ing "this game is too hard for me, please give me everything I want". I think they call them 'casual players' nowadays..
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On topic Some areas may involve too much grind (treasure hunter). Increasing point rewards per chest open would be great. (reward creep)
Reward Creep...Do objective A get 1 point...update...do objective A get 2 points or get 1 point plus 1 item...comparable difficulty or time investment but bigger reward."
Another example would be the zrewards. Despite increasing the amount of coins per completion a while ago, they decreased the number of coins required for getting some items.
Now there has to be some balance point between providing not enough reward that no one bothers to do something and provided a reward thats so big that people reach their goals so fast that they quickly get board and quit.
What is that balance point?
Lortext
So many titles/achievements are about the journey and not the destination.
Bright Star Shine
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Originally Posted by melissa b
Offtopic Nothing in this game in pve is too hard for me. I'm not talking about power creep, or difficulty.
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http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...tml?t=10474105
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/b...tml?t=10473949
Also, of course nothing is too hard I guess, when you let everyone run your VQ's.. Gotta love the search button..
jackinthe
they also require less work for the same (amount of) reward.
survivor... how many times did everyone remake theirs the first time around?
drunkard... we spent 10k minutes drunk. now people spend 5 minutes with an autoclicker.
skill hunter... hunted down most every boss ingame. now you can get this without leaving town.
legendary defender of ascalon... /deaths. need i say more?
survivor... how many times did everyone remake theirs the first time around?
drunkard... we spent 10k minutes drunk. now people spend 5 minutes with an autoclicker.
skill hunter... hunted down most every boss ingame. now you can get this without leaving town.
legendary defender of ascalon... /deaths. need i say more?
Martin Alvito
There are only so many ways to promote activity without introducing new content.
One of the more effective ways is to reduce the cost associated with accomplishing a given goal. Players make an up or down choice on whether or not to pursue a goal, and the personal cost of pursuing the goal is a very large factor. Reduce that cost, and some players that would not have been willing to invest the effort suddenly will be.
ANet will continue engaging in this pattern of behavior because it works. All you can do personally is anticipate it and react accordingly. They don't water down all achievements, so it's best to focus on the ones they are unlikely to devalue and postpone working on goals that they are likely to cheapen later.
One of the more effective ways is to reduce the cost associated with accomplishing a given goal. Players make an up or down choice on whether or not to pursue a goal, and the personal cost of pursuing the goal is a very large factor. Reduce that cost, and some players that would not have been willing to invest the effort suddenly will be.
ANet will continue engaging in this pattern of behavior because it works. All you can do personally is anticipate it and react accordingly. They don't water down all achievements, so it's best to focus on the ones they are unlikely to devalue and postpone working on goals that they are likely to cheapen later.
vitorvdp_68
There's already a fair balance in the game of difficult titles and easy titles. Spoiling that balance would be silly.
melissa b
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Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine
I never said this was about powercreep either. I was talking about people that want everything handed to them, not specifically talking difficulty here..
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/p...tml?t=10474105 http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/b...tml?t=10473949 Also, of course nothing is too hard I guess, when you let everyone run your VQ's.. Gotta love the search button.. |
So to start listing some pros/cons
+less grind
-devalued achievements
Also, thanks for linking the box of luck, I really like that idea and maybe it will get some renewed interest.
Bright Star Shine
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Originally Posted by melissa b
I'm not against all forms of reward creep, just asking what is a good balance point! Would love some reward creep for treasure hunter and lucky.
So to start listing some pros/cons +less grind -devalued achievements Also, thanks for linking the box of luck, I really like that idea and maybe it will get some renewed interest. |
Treasure Hunter isn't by any means hard, mine is about to be maxed. I'm doing my last ~500 chests through casual play. Some chests I get in DoA, from doing VQ's (myself) etc..
I got 2,7k chests through casual play on my ele without chestrunning once, before I started actively doing it. Then I pushed up a lot due to some dedication and me actually liking it, and now I'm almost max..
Treasure Hunter is one of the few titles that still has some prestige left to it, screw that up and Anet will have become pure sellouts..
vitorvdp_68
If you don't want to put in the effort for Treasure Hunter then you just don't get it, simple as.
melissa b
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Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine
Wow, you are a master at selective reading. What was meant as a pure insult you saw as help to promote one of your many retarded ideas..
Treasure Hunter isn't by any means hard, mine is about to be maxed. I'm doing my last ~500 chests through casual play. Some chests I get in DoA, from doing VQ's (myself) etc.. I got 2,7k chests through casual play on my ele without chestrunning once, before I started actively doing it. Then I pushed up a lot due to some dedication and me actually liking it, and now I'm almost max.. Treasure Hunter is one of the few titles that still has some prestige left to it, screw that up and Anet will have become pure sellouts.. |
Lets clarify definitions...please....
Hard....takes skill to achieve, difficult, can require a short amount of time or a long amount of time.
Grind...easy, mindless, repetitive, takes a long time
Obtaining Treasure Hunter is a time-consuming but easy task
I wouldn't call it a title of prestige...I would call it a grind title, maybe some players from beta got it naturally as they went along without running chests.
Now what would be an acceptable level of reward creep for that title for example? Introduce golden eggs to strong boxes? Double points per open? Etc. Some reward creep might renew interest for some players but too much might hurt the title.
Bright Star Shine
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Originally Posted by vitorvdp_68
If you don't want to put in the effort for Treasure Hunter then you just don't get it, simple as.
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Also, I linked those threads because I said "there are people that want everything handed to them", like you. Everything you have shown here on these forums has been advertising to make everything either easier, or dumb it down, because you can't handle the game. If you could you wouldn't QQ about DoASC being unfair the whole time. If you could, you wouldn't QQ that titles are too hard to get. If you could, you wouldn't buy all your VQ's.
Get a grip, play the game.
melissa b
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Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine
Quoted for truth.
Also, I linked those threads because I said "there are people that want everything handed to them", like you. Everything you have shown here on these forums has been advertising to make everything either easier, or dumb it down, because you can't handle the game. If you could you wouldn't QQ about DoASC being unfair the whole time. If you could, you wouldn't QQ that titles are too hard to get. If you could, you wouldn't buy all your VQ's. Get a grip, play the game. |
What do you think about the reward creep in Fort Aspenwood? (hint - they didn't make it easier to win)
What about the reward creep for zcoins?
Do you think the trend will continue, more areas will see reward creep?
What areas do you think will be on Anets list to reward creep?
Personally, I think lucky and treasure hunter will be targeted sooner of later.
How is reward creep good for the game, how is it bad? What is the balance point? Has it been crossed? Or more is needed?
Reward Creep for PVP - despite beeing done before (zkeys, tournament reward points, ghostly hero) more was added (strong boxes)...how do you feel about that?
Consumables 7x the reward trend....1 point party items(initial introduction)....7 point party items (gifts of traveler)....50 point party items(strong box)....??350 point party items(future update if trend continues???)
Kawil
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Originally Posted by melissa b
Let me steer this back to topic....reward creep (not anything about buying runs, how hard something is, or your personal love for doasc or what not)
What do you think about the reward creep in Fort Aspenwood? (hint - they didn't make it easier to win) What about the reward creep for zcoins? Do you think the trend will continue, more areas will see reward creep? What areas do you think will be on Anets list to reward creep? Personally, I think lucky and treasure hunter will be targeted sooner of later. How is reward creep good for the game, how is it bad? What is the balance point? Has it been crossed? Or more is needed? Reward Creep for PVP - despite beeing done before (zkeys, tournament reward points, ghostly hero) more was added (strong boxes)...how do you feel about that? Consumables 7x the reward trend....1 point party items(initial introduction)....7 point party items (gifts of traveler)....50 point party items(strong box)....??350 point party items(future update if trend continues???) |
The talk of 'being hard' or 'earning' something no longer has any merit. It's all about the end-game. And by that I mean....shinnies. When titles started coming out we all rushed to max them. More titles came out and we maxed those too. After so many titles, I don't know about you all, but I got pretty tired of them. The only thing that affects a title now is more titles because the more you have the more grind you have. Thus...the less fun people have. Less fun = less people. Ratchet up the rewards so titles are easier = more players either starting new accounts or vets shoring up their already vast wealth. Either way...everyone and no one is happy.
melissa b
Yeah, I agree some of its a marketing strategy. One of which will be getting players in gw2 to backtrack, buy the original, get the hom rewards quickly and rejoin gw2. The more reward creep the more likely people will find incentive to buy gw1 and the faster they will finish and get back to gw2. Also, the established players can meet their goals faster and jump to gw2.
Lord Dagon
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Originally Posted by Alvarez
Nope, I don't mind what they're doing. That's all I have to say.
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so yes im cool with what they are doing
Our Virus
The only thing I wanna know is why does it matter if some titles are now easier to get? People still spend time getting them. Alot of people are going with anet made it easier bc some said "it's too hard for me boohoo." ...K? Let's now look at yourself saying "ouchies my pride hurts bc other people can now do what I did." How dare someone feed what's hungry, insane and unfair.
Gabriel of Ravn
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Originally Posted by vitorvdp_68
If you don't want to put in the effort for Treasure Hunter then you just don't get it, simple as.
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Leave treasure hunter the F alone.
Kegen
For those of you that had to climb 15 miles uphill in the snow to get your titles (tongue in cheek, don't rage), you can still relish the fact that you did it before X people who did it when it was easy. Those that care about titles for titles sake, probably are friends and knew when you did it and can take that into account. If some random twit doesn't believe you or gloats about their titles - then so what? If not about that, they'll gloat about something else.
As a side thought, Anet should add time stamps to when the title was earned... in a perfect world that is.
Since I've seen a lot of opinions from those that sound like they completed their titles back in the old days when men were men and women were women (tongue is now in the other cheek this time)... I thought I'd add a title newbies experience.
I'm glad they are adjusting the requirements. It reignites interest. Before HoM I just figured it was pointless to get titles given the time needed. After a two year break I find more energy to do them, but I really did want more of an incentive other than just showing it to about 10 friends who would give me a brief pity "awesome, well done".
But even at the levels they are now, I grind far too much. It's one things to work on a title that coincides with play or presents a tactical challenge. It's another to just grind for cash to get armor or drunk points you won't use.
I wish they would have rolled out ideas like drunk-boosted skills earlier and made the drinks easier to manage (know how long, bind a key to a drink, etc.) so it was part of the game and not something you did bouncing between zones.
One little thought. Cell phones use to be a status symbol and worth a pretty penny, now my neighbors 8 year old has one (better than mine, I might add). GW's economy changes like ours, I guess that means those that want to set themselves apart will have to find new ways - some of which Anet will add, others you'll have to do yourself.
Anyway, enough of my dribble. Kudos to those of you who have titles, whenever or however you got them.
As a side thought, Anet should add time stamps to when the title was earned... in a perfect world that is.
Since I've seen a lot of opinions from those that sound like they completed their titles back in the old days when men were men and women were women (tongue is now in the other cheek this time)... I thought I'd add a title newbies experience.
I'm glad they are adjusting the requirements. It reignites interest. Before HoM I just figured it was pointless to get titles given the time needed. After a two year break I find more energy to do them, but I really did want more of an incentive other than just showing it to about 10 friends who would give me a brief pity "awesome, well done".
But even at the levels they are now, I grind far too much. It's one things to work on a title that coincides with play or presents a tactical challenge. It's another to just grind for cash to get armor or drunk points you won't use.
I wish they would have rolled out ideas like drunk-boosted skills earlier and made the drinks easier to manage (know how long, bind a key to a drink, etc.) so it was part of the game and not something you did bouncing between zones.
One little thought. Cell phones use to be a status symbol and worth a pretty penny, now my neighbors 8 year old has one (better than mine, I might add). GW's economy changes like ours, I guess that means those that want to set themselves apart will have to find new ways - some of which Anet will add, others you'll have to do yourself.
Anyway, enough of my dribble. Kudos to those of you who have titles, whenever or however you got them.
Essence Snow
Guess what?......Most of the GW population is not like us(u know who I'm referring to). They are not addicts...and yes, I consider myself a gw addict. Even though I spent countless hours on 150+/- titles across my account, I certainly do NOT feel cheapened b/c others can achieve some of those titles via more casual play. That's great! I'll gz them for every last one they get and be happy for them. It is simply more valuable to me that they are happy about achieving the titles than my sense of "entitlement".
teh bestest is here
I feel like this is happening because there are way less people willing to actually farm titles themselves. I havent farmed during an event in over 2 years, just not interested. Why waste 10 hours farming when i have the ecto to just but the same stacks of items in 10minutes? Hence less people farm, so they increase supply to keep up with demand, or HoM pts would be through the rought in gp/pt.
tghoodoo
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Originally Posted by Gabriel of Ravn
Leave treasure hunter the F alone.
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EPO Bot
100 gold coins isn't exactly easy or quick.
Daesu
This is inevitable.
Anyway good luck trying to convince people to support a cutback of their rewards.
Anyway good luck trying to convince people to support a cutback of their rewards.
melissa b
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Originally Posted by Daesu
This is inevitable.
Anyway good luck trying to convince people to support a cutback of their rewards. |