[Team Build] Speed farm dungeons
Illion
I have been trying to figure out a build that can speed farm all end game dungeons relatively fast (FoW, UW, Urgoz etc). I have been working through all physical classes but it seems heroes have trouble using those efficiently. I ended up mixing two builds:
EFGJack's latest UW build 7 Hero Player Support I play ritualist as main but any class should be considered, whatever is the fastest. Also note that since the goal is farming a balance between speed and lazyway is desireable. I found two approaches interesting, please advice.
Variant 1:
Variant 2:
EFGJack's latest UW build 7 Hero Player Support I play ritualist as main but any class should be considered, whatever is the fastest. Also note that since the goal is farming a balance between speed and lazyway is desireable. I found two approaches interesting, please advice.
Variant 1:
Variant 2:
IronSheik
Rit primary will never be fastest. Assassin or similar melee with a physical support build would be the fastest in my opinion.
First of all, two earthbind copies with only 2 (?) knockdowns is relatively useless.
The FoC has many 2s cast skills, probably something I would try to shy from on a hero.
Dulled weapon and GoLE can be slotted better, and won't need painful bond with first commune dropped.
In the first build it might be risky slotting power drain on monk as you have a panic and rupts on the other mesmers as well.
Those just stand out right away at me
First of all, two earthbind copies with only 2 (?) knockdowns is relatively useless.
The FoC has many 2s cast skills, probably something I would try to shy from on a hero.
Dulled weapon and GoLE can be slotted better, and won't need painful bond with first commune dropped.
In the first build it might be risky slotting power drain on monk as you have a panic and rupts on the other mesmers as well.
Those just stand out right away at me
Jeydra
UW is not a typical dungeon, so there's a lot that you can do (and a lot that works there but is subpar elsewhere).
I'm no Rit specialist, so I cannot tell for sure how good my advice will be, but I would think that the player should go offensive SoS with Summon Spirits. You could also try things like Destruction + Gaze of Fury to kill your own Destruction; such things the AI cannot do. Alternatively if you want you can go AP with PvE skills etc.
For build 1: don't run the UA healer, use a UA smiter. If you use SoS, drop the other SoS Rit for SoGM. Take out the FoC and use another healer of some kind (Panic with Resto, Necro with Resto, etc). If you choose Panic, drop the Panic Mes for another ESurge. Drop also the Ineptitude Mesmer for an Invoke Ele. Don't use Earthbind on the ST; not necessary at all. In fact the ST is probably unnecessary. You can drop the ST entirely for a MM, or you can keep the ST and use only one semi-healer (UA or Panic Resto / Necro Resto etc). Make sure to keep two hard resses somewhere.
Build 2: same as build 1, lose the UA healer, change SoS Rit to SoGM, consider alternative semi-healers (or two UA Monks), lose the FoC Nec for something else e.g. Invoke Ele. If you use the Invoke Ele you can lose Command spec on one Mesmer, which allows you to bring Cry of Frustration (great skill). Again ST is probably unnecessary with two semi-healers; if you use the ST regardless try to run with only one semi-healer.
Finally it seems depending on area caster primary can be faster than melee primary, and vice versa.
Good luck.
I'm no Rit specialist, so I cannot tell for sure how good my advice will be, but I would think that the player should go offensive SoS with Summon Spirits. You could also try things like Destruction + Gaze of Fury to kill your own Destruction; such things the AI cannot do. Alternatively if you want you can go AP with PvE skills etc.
For build 1: don't run the UA healer, use a UA smiter. If you use SoS, drop the other SoS Rit for SoGM. Take out the FoC and use another healer of some kind (Panic with Resto, Necro with Resto, etc). If you choose Panic, drop the Panic Mes for another ESurge. Drop also the Ineptitude Mesmer for an Invoke Ele. Don't use Earthbind on the ST; not necessary at all. In fact the ST is probably unnecessary. You can drop the ST entirely for a MM, or you can keep the ST and use only one semi-healer (UA or Panic Resto / Necro Resto etc). Make sure to keep two hard resses somewhere.
Build 2: same as build 1, lose the UA healer, change SoS Rit to SoGM, consider alternative semi-healers (or two UA Monks), lose the FoC Nec for something else e.g. Invoke Ele. If you use the Invoke Ele you can lose Command spec on one Mesmer, which allows you to bring Cry of Frustration (great skill). Again ST is probably unnecessary with two semi-healers; if you use the ST regardless try to run with only one semi-healer.
Finally it seems depending on area caster primary can be faster than melee primary, and vice versa.
Good luck.
Illion
Thanks for your replies.
I have considered your input and made the following changes:
I am worried about spikes now when ST is not in the mix anymore. My testing area is the DoA CoT starting area, I try to pull two groups and see if I survive. Usually I die from spikes and aoe from the eles.
Also please advice on the attributes.
Thanks.
I have considered your input and made the following changes:
I am worried about spikes now when ST is not in the mix anymore. My testing area is the DoA CoT starting area, I try to pull two groups and see if I survive. Usually I die from spikes and aoe from the eles.
Also please advice on the attributes.
Thanks.
Essence Snow
On yout SoS and SoGM rits you have overlapping spirits....ie having two Anguish spirits and two Pain spirits is counter-productive as they will replace each other.
thetwistedboy
I vote not enough healing and you should put some pve in skills on your bar. Maybe EBSoW.
Illion
Thanks for your comments.
The new build looks like this:
Should I run Panic instead of Energy Surge on the second mesmer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeydra
The new build looks like this:
Should I run Panic instead of Energy Surge on the second mesmer?
Quote:
...Alternatively if you want you can go AP with PvE skills etc...
AP as in Armor Penetration? What would you suggest here?
Kabbu
mage767
You don't mix up bars from other team builds to create a new team build that will have the properties of the original builds. Rather, you start from scratch, by working on a new concept, and improving it iteratively by testing in many pve areas (dungeons HM, vanquishing, etc)
itiscurtains
I might reconsider the heals on the player bar. You'll likely want to bring Summon Spirits, and may as well bring Vampirism while you're at it. That leaves you with one free slot and a whole slew of spare attribute points. A PvE skill of your choice - or even another "FB!" - would fit well.
Also, if you're running a caster spear, I would drop A-Rage for Splinter. At 16 Channeling it is generally well worth bringing.
Also, if you're running a caster spear, I would drop A-Rage for Splinter. At 16 Channeling it is generally well worth bringing.
Jeydra
I'll suggest:
Move Fall Back! from UA Smiter to the Elementalist. He has more energy to use it. Whirlwind is not good; use Glyph of Lesser Energy (or the Elementalist will run out of energy - that's with 3 other energy management skills on the bar, too).
Use this N/Rt bar: Ravenous Gaze, Strip Enchantment, Oppressive Gaze, Spirit Transfer, Spirit Light, Mend Body And Soul, Kaolai, optional. You don't want 2s cast offensive spells on healers, but go ahead and run Flesh of my Flesh if you want (you can also drop Overload on a Mesmer for the hard res and then use Signet of Lost Souls here).
Definitely use more PvE skills yourself. Summon Spirits is too powerful to give up; Vampirism is another free spirit. But beyond that I don't know what's good on player Ritualists.
With UA Smiter and the N/Rt healer you don't need the SoS healer. I would run SoS yourself (which also gives you more room for more PvE slots, not to mention high spec in Channeling for Spirit Siphon = more energy management) and then move the SoGM template to a hero.
Good luck.
Move Fall Back! from UA Smiter to the Elementalist. He has more energy to use it. Whirlwind is not good; use Glyph of Lesser Energy (or the Elementalist will run out of energy - that's with 3 other energy management skills on the bar, too).
Use this N/Rt bar: Ravenous Gaze, Strip Enchantment, Oppressive Gaze, Spirit Transfer, Spirit Light, Mend Body And Soul, Kaolai, optional. You don't want 2s cast offensive spells on healers, but go ahead and run Flesh of my Flesh if you want (you can also drop Overload on a Mesmer for the hard res and then use Signet of Lost Souls here).
Definitely use more PvE skills yourself. Summon Spirits is too powerful to give up; Vampirism is another free spirit. But beyond that I don't know what's good on player Ritualists.
With UA Smiter and the N/Rt healer you don't need the SoS healer. I would run SoS yourself (which also gives you more room for more PvE slots, not to mention high spec in Channeling for Spirit Siphon = more energy management) and then move the SoGM template to a hero.
Good luck.
Illion
I really appreciate the support, thank you.
This is the current build I am running:
Thoughts:Should I be running panic or another energy surge? I guess panic helps a lot with spike damage. I decided inbetween Technobabble and Pain Inverter. I chose Techno to slow those casters in the back down, but maybe PI works better. With Fall Back! gone from the UA I decided to go for another interrupt and energy gain instead of Divine Healing. Does anyone know if the AI can handle having power drains on 3 different heroes? Else I might just go with Divine Healing, though I am just a little bit worried about the energy.
This is the current build I am running:
Thoughts:Should I be running panic or another energy surge? I guess panic helps a lot with spike damage. I decided inbetween Technobabble and Pain Inverter. I chose Techno to slow those casters in the back down, but maybe PI works better. With Fall Back! gone from the UA I decided to go for another interrupt and energy gain instead of Divine Healing. Does anyone know if the AI can handle having power drains on 3 different heroes? Else I might just go with Divine Healing, though I am just a little bit worried about the energy.
AndrewSX
Looks good. Only thing i'd say:
-Point 2: Your bar have 4 PvE skills, eheh(ward+tecno+vamp+summ spir) you'll have to get rid of one anyway.
-Considered that you're a rit, and thus running only a singles rit hero, you could take razah as mez and have him run another e-surge kicking out the invoke ele. Just random preference tho, dunno if this will improve so much the whole team. (this responding point1.)
-(Point 3)Take a look on the mes hero behaviour thread in this section about this: rupts are better to go on a single char. So, it's be better use WNWN over drain ench on one/both mes, or put in a fast recharge hex (aka: overload) and use drain delusion (take in mind that CAN happen that hero will drain a more important hex like panic or so, but shouldn't happen too mmuch often)
-Point 2: Your bar have 4 PvE skills, eheh(ward+tecno+vamp+summ spir) you'll have to get rid of one anyway.
-Considered that you're a rit, and thus running only a singles rit hero, you could take razah as mez and have him run another e-surge kicking out the invoke ele. Just random preference tho, dunno if this will improve so much the whole team. (this responding point1.)
-(Point 3)Take a look on the mes hero behaviour thread in this section about this: rupts are better to go on a single char. So, it's be better use WNWN over drain ench on one/both mes, or put in a fast recharge hex (aka: overload) and use drain delusion (take in mind that CAN happen that hero will drain a more important hex like panic or so, but shouldn't happen too mmuch often)
Illion
I dont know why but the last poster removed his post. I was lucky to remember it though.
Here it is:
All I have to say is that this build is insanely good, I have no idea why he deleted his post. If you gear your heroes similiar so they have the exact same armor and health the damage will be even. I have no problem in DoA so far, its almost like it was one of the game devs who came up with this one.
Here it is:
All I have to say is that this build is insanely good, I have no idea why he deleted his post. If you gear your heroes similiar so they have the exact same armor and health the damage will be even. I have no problem in DoA so far, its almost like it was one of the game devs who came up with this one.
Huiboo
Haha i bet the guy who posted it was a german
These are pretty much the most common meta builds you find in the hero teambuild threads of the german forum wartower.de
Just that the MM useally got OoU instead of AotL.
The other build thats frequently seen there is 3xKSS, 3xDiscord, ER E/Mo.
These are pretty much the most common meta builds you find in the hero teambuild threads of the german forum wartower.de
Just that the MM useally got OoU instead of AotL.
The other build thats frequently seen there is 3xKSS, 3xDiscord, ER E/Mo.
Jeydra
There are two reasons why you found that build "insanely good".
One: you're in DoA, in which there are lots of melee monsters that tend to clump (Titan spawns). This powers up Ineptitude. Since Dervishes can also deal pressure damage through block + blind now, the Ineptitude template is very strong at reducing damage and dishing it out.
Two: you're in DoA, where Enraged + Rage Titans can hit for huge damage. The original teambuild you had have to cope with that somehow - the standard method is either to slot in a ST Rit, or to slot in Stand Your Ground. With neither you CAN still do DoA HM, but you need a lot more finesse.
I strongly suspect this teambuild will be slower than the original in dungeons.
One: you're in DoA, in which there are lots of melee monsters that tend to clump (Titan spawns). This powers up Ineptitude. Since Dervishes can also deal pressure damage through block + blind now, the Ineptitude template is very strong at reducing damage and dishing it out.
Two: you're in DoA, where Enraged + Rage Titans can hit for huge damage. The original teambuild you had have to cope with that somehow - the standard method is either to slot in a ST Rit, or to slot in Stand Your Ground. With neither you CAN still do DoA HM, but you need a lot more finesse.
I strongly suspect this teambuild will be slower than the original in dungeons.
Rufus Deimos
Lol, i dont removed my Post. Dont know why its away. Maybe deleted bby a Mod.
Here´s the Builds again.
Build 1 is my favorite.
@ HUiboo
I like AotL more. With Build 1 i vanquished all and run every dungeon easy and fast.
€: And no, i am not at wartower.de .
Here´s the Builds again.
Build 1 is my favorite.
@ HUiboo
I like AotL more. With Build 1 i vanquished all and run every dungeon easy and fast.
€: And no, i am not at wartower.de .
Morte66
Mesmers with Symbolic Celerity and SOLS... that's a very interesting idea, I have to try that.
Third
Quote:
Originally Posted by Illion
I dont know why but the last poster removed his post. I was lucky to remember it though.
Here it is:
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/4233/powern.png
All I have to say is that this build is insanely good, I have no idea why he deleted his post. If you gear your heroes similiar so they have the exact same armor and health the damage will be even. I have no problem in DoA so far, its almost like it was one of the game devs who came up with this one. I used these builds in DoA (NM) and i died quickly. The emo was not able to effectively heal the group. I used the same skills and most of my heroes have runes. In addition, the heroes rarely used Symbolic Celerity and I think the builds are not effective in areas where the removal of enchantment is present. (Sorry for my english btw)
Here it is:
http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/4233/powern.png
All I have to say is that this build is insanely good, I have no idea why he deleted his post. If you gear your heroes similiar so they have the exact same armor and health the damage will be even. I have no problem in DoA so far, its almost like it was one of the game devs who came up with this one. I used these builds in DoA (NM) and i died quickly. The emo was not able to effectively heal the group. I used the same skills and most of my heroes have runes. In addition, the heroes rarely used Symbolic Celerity and I think the builds are not effective in areas where the removal of enchantment is present. (Sorry for my english btw)
Jeydra
Rufus Deimos
For big areas or areas where are the monster far away, i make the N/Mo to N/P.
Vanquish max 20 min but normaly ~16-17 min. Dungeons puuh not so fast as SC´s but faster then many other.
The Second Build with the KSS-Mesmer i normaly use to farm Kurzick/Luxon Points or doing HM Quests or fow hm, but for fow i change it a little bit.. Just run into the Mob, wait a few seconds and run to the next. The Heros does all themselves. And i run normaly as X/P with Stand your ground, Fall back, etc.
Vanquish max 20 min but normaly ~16-17 min. Dungeons puuh not so fast as SC´s but faster then many other.
The Second Build with the KSS-Mesmer i normaly use to farm Kurzick/Luxon Points or doing HM Quests or fow hm, but for fow i change it a little bit.. Just run into the Mob, wait a few seconds and run to the next. The Heros does all themselves. And i run normaly as X/P with Stand your ground, Fall back, etc.
Morte66
I tried tacking Symbolic Celerity and SOLS onto my usual Ineptitude mesmer. I don't know if he maintained it perfectly (can't watch all the time), but he certainly had much better energy than usual. He had no problem spamming Clumsiness in a prolonged fight, which is beyond most hero builds.
This does cost me a fast cast hard res compared to my normal build, but I think it's worth it.
This does cost me a fast cast hard res compared to my normal build, but I think it's worth it.
Rufus Deimos
@ Jeydra. If i am home i watch my screenshots,
@ Third. It´s normal that you have to change the build in a few skills in some areas like fow or doa.
@ Third. It´s normal that you have to change the build in a few skills in some areas like fow or doa.
Third
@Rufus Deimos
Ah okay, that's why it was not so effective ... What did you modify in your heroes builds before to go in DoA ?
Ah okay, that's why it was not so effective ... What did you modify in your heroes builds before to go in DoA ?
Illion
I really liked the mesmers and ele from Rufus build but I felt I had to throw in a ST in the mix. I cleared Gloom, Veil and City with even more ease than before with this new build. This is what my build looks like now:
I am atm deciding inbetween PI and Vampirism.
Its always a nice feeling when you feel a little bit overpowered
Anywho, I still have a hard time liking the BiP hero, it feels like gambling with him eating his own HP and spike damage.
I am atm deciding inbetween PI and Vampirism.
Its always a nice feeling when you feel a little bit overpowered
Anywho, I still have a hard time liking the BiP hero, it feels like gambling with him eating his own HP and spike damage.
Illion
I am thinking about this next build, since I am not playing a soaker myself I wanna try a physical build. This is what I am gonna try next:
All the signets are gonna be blocked and I am also trying to figure out how to fit in Aegis in this build. Skipping EBSoH for Summon Spirits might be a good idea for movement and healing the spirits.
[UPDATE]
This build just doesn't work, they eat too much damage and dont deal enough. Even if the enemies are balled they dont know where to swing their scythe to hit 3 targets. Well it was worth a try.
All the signets are gonna be blocked and I am also trying to figure out how to fit in Aegis in this build. Skipping EBSoH for Summon Spirits might be a good idea for movement and healing the spirits.
[UPDATE]
This build just doesn't work, they eat too much damage and dont deal enough. Even if the enemies are balled they dont know where to swing their scythe to hit 3 targets. Well it was worth a try.
Illion
After more testing in DoA I changed some small things with the build and now it looks like this:
I felt improvement with every small change.
What do you guys think?
I got 3 thoughts:Switching Clumsiness with Arcane Conundrum to make casters less dangerous. But that might interfere with the synergy between all the interrupts. Using Ancestors' Rage instead of Splinter Weapon, don't know which one is most beneficial. Switching Life with Well of Blood (as its not really necessary since we got lots of spirits and it's heal is not that good). I believe that wells work really well with a full caster team of heroes to counter AoE if you dont micro much. Strip Enchantment could be a possibility too.
I felt improvement with every small change.
What do you guys think?
I got 3 thoughts:Switching Clumsiness with Arcane Conundrum to make casters less dangerous. But that might interfere with the synergy between all the interrupts. Using Ancestors' Rage instead of Splinter Weapon, don't know which one is most beneficial. Switching Life with Well of Blood (as its not really necessary since we got lots of spirits and it's heal is not that good). I believe that wells work really well with a full caster team of heroes to counter AoE if you dont micro much. Strip Enchantment could be a possibility too.
Third
Belzebu
IronSheik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belzebu
SS cause damage when target cast a spell or attack, with Panic/Ineptitude you interrupt the targets so SS won't cause damage, at least on casters.
Small fix, you still attack with ineptitude, no interrupt there, but foe is blinded before attack connects, so 90%+ of time attack misses
Small fix, you still attack with ineptitude, no interrupt there, but foe is blinded before attack connects, so 90%+ of time attack misses
Illion
Thanks for comments.
I tweaked the build to handle more AoE damage, pumped up all heroes with max armor and som with 40/40. Had some problems in Fury but now it works perfectly. Now I dont have anymore thoughts about this build, I feel its very much complete. It works through all of DoA and I just started UW, did 4 quests this far without a hassle.
I tweaked the build to handle more AoE damage, pumped up all heroes with max armor and som with 40/40. Had some problems in Fury but now it works perfectly. Now I dont have anymore thoughts about this build, I feel its very much complete. It works through all of DoA and I just started UW, did 4 quests this far without a hassle.
shaygo
@ Illion:
do you really use superior runes for everyone ? is it worth it ?
it is an elite area after all and 75 hp are not something to disregard.
look at your Bip hero for example, imo, a spec 8 in blood is enough. it gives +5 health regeneration compaired with +6 if you have 13 blood.
and the PoD necro doesn't really need 16 curses (although the damage is higher...).
do you find reclaim essence good enough on the hero ? did you try to use ST instead ?
do you really use superior runes for everyone ? is it worth it ?
it is an elite area after all and 75 hp are not something to disregard.
look at your Bip hero for example, imo, a spec 8 in blood is enough. it gives +5 health regeneration compaired with +6 if you have 13 blood.
and the PoD necro doesn't really need 16 curses (although the damage is higher...).
do you find reclaim essence good enough on the hero ? did you try to use ST instead ?
shanaya
@Illion - what do you mean 'pumped up all heroes with max armor' ? Do you mean you added +armor insignias to every piece of hero armor?
Illion
Yes I mean insignias and weapon mods.
I changed my build a bit and I now run DoA + Mallyx without a problem and also all quests in UW except 4H, I died twice. The trick is to place your heroes in a diamond formation, I put the 2 mesmers and a curser in the front and the ball of heroes in the back.
Code:
I changed my build a bit and I now run DoA + Mallyx without a problem and also all quests in UW except 4H, I died twice. The trick is to place your heroes in a diamond formation, I put the 2 mesmers and a curser in the front and the ball of heroes in the back.
Code:
C M M B If I put the heroes like this I dont even have to move them whatever happens, AoE and what not. Its just lazy style, even tried 1st phase of Mallyx and Glints Challenge AFK. The enemy AI seems to get stuck on one person, I can just imagine how easy these isntances would be if you played a tank character.
Anyways here is my reworked build:
shanaya
I really like the way you have developed this 7H build over time, with constant testing and tweaking. I'm very much looking forward to trying it out soon (away from home atm), though I won't be able to buff my hero's armor 'cos of lack of money! I just have one more HM dungeon to do then I'll have Legendary Master of the North and thus my very first GWAMM. So, I'll be trying your build on Catacombs of Kathandrax HM - I'll report back with results in a few days time.
I see you've changed your Fallback Necro's elite to Spiteful Spirit. I take it that you don't find that running this with a Panic mesmer is counter-productive?
I see you've changed your Fallback Necro's elite to Spiteful Spirit. I take it that you don't find that running this with a Panic mesmer is counter-productive?