8 players at Maguuma Stade?

Spare me the "you can faceroll PvE HM already, why make it easier!" comments.

Seriously, you can reach any other part of the game with 8 players with minimal fuss but getting 8 heroes deep into the jungle on a caravan VQ is at best problematic and at worst an exercise in self-flagellation.

I'm the first one to champion the idea that this game doesn't need to be made easier however there are two mitigating factors to this idea:

1. Maguuma Stade is so remote that many most people don't even have it on their maps unless they are going for cartographer.

2. It's on the other end of the jungle if you will, meaning that it's still a hike to get to remote locations in the jungle.


Just one of those little things that I wouldn't mind seeing.

Mobs aren't as big down there as in 8man areas. I like the fact that we vq with 6man and even 4man for some areas. We can use other team builds than the usual 7heroes and whatever.

It's better to keep mob sizes rather than increase party to 8 and add more enemies.

I was actually VQing around Maguuma Stade earlier today, nice coincidence. As Maya said, the mobs aren't that big, so would you suggest adding more enemies too? I find it well balanced as it is, so if I'd up party size, I'd put bigger mobs too, otherwise as you said it'd be quite the ride in the park. Sad though that the jungle is isolated from 8-man outposts. So is this a matter of difficulty, comfort, or being able to hang out with seven buddies?

Pretty much your own comment. How much whining can this site take?

comfort and/or buddies.

You have a point about the size of mobs, but I wasn't talking about VQ'ing tangle root as much as I am about the greater area.
I'm thinking about the 15,000 popups in Ettin's Back and the fact that it's a huge grind with little reward beyond title progression.
Let me put it this way, I decided to caravan VQ from Yak's through most of Ascalon one time and another time I did most of Western Kryta (non Maguuma) from ToA and it was genuinely fun.
There was still some challenge, but I didn't feel like I had to white knuckle my way through it.

Given that the Plains of Jarin is the only location in Nightfall that can't be VQ'd with 8 players, and everywhere outside of noobie island in Factions has 8; that it's a long grind through the jungle.
Also considering that Maguuma Stade has no other purpose in the game...

I'm just throwing it out there and don't expect it to happen. I just genuinely hate that area of the game, with all the popups I think it would mitigate grind.

Remember, the area has 11 different explorable areas. It's the largest region in the game and considering that every 2 feet you popup scarabs, spiders, or devourers; it really is a pain.

you can faceroll PvE HM already, why make it easier!

/thread

I only hit 199 foes when I vanquished Ettin's Back. The bit about "hug grind/little reward" can be applied to all vanquishing, if that's your opinion.

Ever been to the Crystal Desert?

Did you even read the first sentence of the thread or did you just repost because you think it's cool?

The grind in Maguuma is a bit different. Easy to lose your way, many more popups than other areas, and it's 11 different explorables..

Crystal Desert is 7 explorables, a lot more open terrain and easy to navigate, and is accessible to 8 heroes via Crystal Overlook in NF. Additionally, the main campaign progression takes you around the desert in NM and 6 players is what the campaign was written for (think secondary profession quests).

With the exception of the hike from Silverwood to Ventauri's, then Aurora Glade, there is no logical quest progression in the main campaign that takes you through the Maguuma Jungle. No secondary quests will ever take you to Stade either.


In goes in hand with the theory I've held for a long time now that ANet originally had bigger plans for the jungle area and ran out of time in developing them. Why else is Denravi the largest outpost by far but with only one quest (no secondaries except Defend Denravi Titan Quest) starting from there?

While I agree that Maguuma Stade is out of the way, with the ability to take 5 heroes out there in HM, I don't see the need. *Uses old man voice* Back in my day we had to bring whoever wanted to VQ those areas and most of the time that meant taking people that wanted a VQ done on a character that wasn't even their primary.

It just seems a bit backwards. Vanquishing and hard mode were a gimmick, an afterthought implemented to keep players interested after the normal game. Have the original altered for the purpose of a little more convenience in a late game gimmick?

I need more then one facepalm for this

When the servers crash we'll know for sure. If I understand correctly the OP is starting from a place that allows 8 people and vanquishing through every zone that you can only leave the nearest outpost with 6? If that's right then I don't know what to say, 6 is fine with me because I know I'll bring armor and grails for jungle vanquishes. I guess make sure you're heroes are well thought out and can counter or defend against anything you can come up against. I don't think ArenaNet has plans to change any of the outpost's party size anytime soon. Also, go AFK, grab something to eat and drink (with heroes). If the vanquish takes four hours, so be it.

you can faceroll PvE HM already, why make it easier!

I'll give you the "easy to lose your way" point. As for Pop-ups, I think it's a toss-up between there and the desert. And there are only 9 explorable areas in the Jungle, not 11.

Majesty's Rest - not far from ToA, so an 8-person party isn't out of the question and you only have to cover half the area to Vanquish it - with a decent team it takes about 20 minutes to do (Including the fight with Rotscale). Mapping the rest can be done in NM.

Sage Lands, Silverwood, Ettin's Back and Tangle Root - an 8-person team isn't going to change the layout. Pre-planning your route is the key to cutting down the grind. (All doable in 45-50 minutes, with mapping)

Mamnoon Lagoon - 50 - 60 enemies, just don't over aggro. Easy-Peasy, VQ & Mapped in 20 minutes.

Reed Bog - Easily done it 20 minutes on the way to The Falls.

The Falls - I can see why one would want an 8-person party to do this one, as the chances of an 8-person party wiping would be much lower than a 6-person party. Rezzing back at the entrance can be such a pain!

Dry Top - Another tiny area easily completed (VQ & map) in 15 - 20 minutes.

I actually think your a million miles away from reality. When Nightfall was released it gave us a ridiculous amount of skills to choose from which made us overpowered in the old mode (which seemed slightly harder than NM but hard to judge when your using stronger builds). I think they acknowledged they would loose the playerbase if the game got too easy. we loved the new builds but HM gave us new challenges, better loot, titles, and motivation. you can call it a gimmick but that would just make every feature of the game a gimmick, not as though GW is the only game to introduce a HM. If its a gimmick its a welcomed gimmick, a gimmick in my eyes is pointless and adds nothing to the game, like costumes, HM was not a gimmick! I'm sure we'll find in GW2 that they've learnt their mistake in using so many skills and difficulty in balancing that came with it and we'll likely not get so many skills with new expansions and they'll likely follow the faction association. That said i wouldn't be against a HM in GW2, although it probably won't be needed if we're to be downgraded when we play in low level areas.

Vanquishing again didn't come until much later in the game, it wasn't something new, its something we used to do anyway as new players while exploring. They just turned something we did anyway into more of a challenge/job.

Remember GW was their first game, it went completely against the normal mmo in lots of way. In hindsight i'm sure they wish they could've added as many of the last 6 years updates on release. They had ideas for updates with links already within the game that never actually surfaced. They've learnt alot in the last 6 years about what worked or failed in GW and their competitors so we should expect a much more polished thought out game in gw2. Their biggest flaws for me have been failing to meet deadlines and some of the title formats, ie survivor was introduced just before factions as one of the first titles alongside cartographer, considering many of us already had our main chars and slots used up it should have been consecutive exp without dying from the start. Some titles should be obvious that they should be account based but again they were a bit slow on some of these. They should've recognised how flawed death levelling for LDoA was before they even made it a title, not to mention its just the wrong way to play a game, but i think they went a little too far with the new quests, i like em but the title is now far too easy

On topic, 8 players at Maguuma Stade? God knows how many people who've already completed it is enough to say its not needed. I'd rather see some team sizes reduced, for example i've never understood why Urgoz was a 12 man team other than to match the Deep, which it worked for, what with having to split at the start

Aha, now we know why they crashed the other day!

It is for me. It's promoting pure grind and nothing more. HM does nothing in terms of gameplay, its only purpose is to give better loot and facilitate getting extra titles.

Lies!

I accidentally achieved Savior of the Kurzicks and didn't even notice until a month later.

/ontopic: 8 man would be "nice" in the Jungle for vanquishing but it's certainly not required. I did it with h/h before the 7-hero (5 hero in this area) update and it wasn't too bad. Of course I also had a massive lag spike while I was at the falls staring at a group of Wind Riders. I thought I was going to go German kid if I 007'd. Thankfully, my ping settled back down.

I'm not sure how your trying to argue HM was a gimmick that didn't add any valued content, its a different experience to NM altogether, more so for new players. A handful of people on guru trolling over it doesn't reflect the majority of players. I enjoyed doing most of the HM stuff, i'm an avid farmer also and enjoy the variety i get from different farms in either mode. So what exactly do you want? They told us Nightfall was the last campaign when they announced GW2 and they'd give us EotN expansion as an introduction to GW2 ie the races and now they've started adding new quests that relate. I'm not sure we'dve survived without it. I'm getting seriously frustrated at the wait myself. I'd hate to ask what your opinion on the Z quests is lol your time would be better suited coming up with some good ideas for additional content, who knows maybe you'll get what you want (and let someone else complain about how pointless it was)

I consider new content to be EotN, WiK, BMP, WoC, the Galrath and Titans quests. HM by itself is just old content, rehashed with foes with more HP/armor/attributes. It see it promoting highly abnormal builds, grind, e-peen etc. I personally don't get any satisfaction out of doing HM/vanquish/Zaishen.

I understand that you do, and of course you can approach HM smartly, not just Discordway + C-space. But overall we're looking for very different things in this game. Me, when I'm bored of GW I close it and go do something else. Whereas you claim you depend on GW for "survival" (surely you exaggerate?) and describe yourself as an "avid grinder". Obviously, we're not going to see eye to eye on this. Leave it at that.

I never said required. As I've said, Maguuma is a backwater as far as Prophecies is concerned. If they hadn't but Zinn's lab in the falls, most people would have forgotten that it even exists.
Which is the whole point, the only reason to go to Maguuma (outside of Prophecies quest progression) is to cartograph and VQ.
There are no cappable elites, there are no farms there, there is no GW:B content...nothing.

It's 9 explorable areas worth of mazes filled with condition spreading popups, and stance happy centaurs.

The worst part, is that it's not that challenging. You can't brag about VQing Dry Top.

It's very unsporting, but I want 8 players so I can make a day of it, and be done.

Its 6 man because of the lack of skill variety and lack of elite skills on monster bars... vrs you and 7 fully loaded heroes would truly be a face roll

lack of elite skills....are you daft? It's HM, of course they have elite skills.

I wasn't requesting this due to exploring in NM, but for HM taks. As I said it's not the challenge; it's the grind that bothers me.

Back in the days before Factions I knew people who gave up on GW due to the jungle (almost as depressing as post-searing Ascalon).

Unless you speed boost yourself into 30 popups of spiders, you can beat the area with 6 heroes.

Once that's done, you will NEVER step into the jungle again unless it's like this week and you need mandibles for Nick.

Mossy Mandibles, Dry Top VQ?

Whether coincidence or ANet staffing saying "here, now STFU", it makes me wonder.

So wait... you are requesting this so that you can vq faster because you think its boring? Thats hardly reason to institute a change...

Back in beta times, it housed a pvp arena, 4vs4 if I remember correct.

I said lack didn't say non-existent. If you count the total elite skills used in the jungle compared to other areas.... jungle areas have an low elite skill count.. i agree with you the jungle has alot of unfilled potential... but saying its boring because its easy so make it easier by adding 8 man parties... doesn't seem like sound logic

I decided to stop QQ'ing about it and VQ'd Dry Top and Tangle Root last night.

I now FIRMLY stand by my request.

It's fitting that the area has so many trolls because I feel like the area is a troll itself.

Life pods with healing spams and knockdown, Thornwalkers with Mist Form, and Scarabs with Verata's. With trapping devourers and necrobombing ones as popups along with the pods and scarabs, this area is designed to do nothing but slow you down.

It's not hard, I rolled Dry Top without a single healer.

All the creatures do is annoy the hell out of you until you want to rage quit.
Bring Dway, Mend Condition, Smite Hex, and Verata's say hi.
Go Physicals, Mist Form says hi. Balanced with 6 players..
bang head against this target until you like the idea.

Whatever, I'll slog through it with 6 until by veins threaten to burst from my forehead; but I still believe the idea has merit.

What?!? You admit its not hard with 6 but you still want it changed to 8?

What exactly are you asking for. You already admit the areas are easy to vanquish with a party size of 6, so why do you want a party size of 8 to make it easier.

It honestly sounds more like you are fishing for hero build advice, then making a good argument for making Maguuma Stade an 8 person outpost.

If you read the first post, I suggest 8 player limit at Maguuma with the following logic:

1. There is even less reason to go to Maguuma Stade than the Temple of Ages. I know why ToA has 8, but I'd love to see a reason to go that backwater.

2. The Maguuma Jungle foes are not difficult to defeat in HM, but they are true adepts at slowing you down with piss off skills that are not part of any coherent build meant to challenge the player.

3. This would not affect the quest and campaign progression for Prophecies in any meaningful way.

4. It's a "sealed" off corner of Tyria in which you would have to walk quite a ways to make use of all 8 heroes in multiple areas...unlike ToA.


The grind of Maguuma is soul crushing. Large areas of confusing mazes, 50 enemies in an area, but 200 after popups. No elites to be captured, no rare weapons to farm, no reason to be there except for VQ'ing it and getting it out of the way.

By the time anyone did anything about it, I probably will have VQ'd the thing anyhow.

I'm just making an argument that compared to the other campaigns, and even the rest of Tyria, that a little change can make a non-challenging and non-enjoyable grind, go down a little smoother.

It's not about making it easier, it's more of an anti-grind stance.

Use Shining Blade Warhorns. BAM! Instant party of 9.

If you dont like grind why are you vanquishing in the first place, its a completely optional activity.


Maguuma Stade isnt as remote as you are trying to imply either, its only a slight detour from the primary quest path that leads from the Henge of Denravri to Riverside Province. There are also 2 green items that drop only in the Falls, in the past one of these greens was heavily farmed. There are also several skill quests that will lead you out to various areas of the Maguuma. The Henge of Denravi also used to house a pvp arena before Anet closed it down.


Your only argument seems to be " I can vanquish everywhere else with an 8 man party, but i dont want to walk out to the Falls from ToA, make a closer 8 man outpost ". You can already have 5 heros in your party and a summon stone can increase that to 7-9, and the summon sickness now goes away after 10 minutes instead of 60. With all this in your favor, why do you still want HM to be even easier in the Maguuma areas then it already is.

Actually, it is very possible to vanquish Plains of Jarin 8man.

Parties should have been of 4 in pre-Searing, of 6 in Ascalon, of 8 from Yak's bend onward and so on, but now it's too late to change all of that.

It would probably take too much time.

All enemy parties would have to change. Just increasing party sizes would change things to be too easy.

If Maguuma Stade is allowed to give players access to eight players, what about giving similar treatment to outposts such as Serenity Temple, Ice Tooth Cave, and Augury Rock? The first two at least are a fair distance off the beaten path, but would allow for insertion points of full parties in each region of Tyria. Augury Rock as a mission is done solo, so having it accessible to eight players would be no issue in that respect, and it doesn't make much sense to put such an outpost in one of the corners.

Finding other outposts to turn into 8-man outposts becomes much harder for Shing Jea Island or Istan, if you were to trying to allow party sizes in each area to be boosted to eight. No outpost available really sticks out as being viable.

All-in-all, with the tools available to players, I don't see the real point in trying to do something like this.

If you get on the boat to go to Riverside Province, you lose your 8 player team so I don't know why that matters.

Totem Axes go for what, 2k max on a great day. I have one on my MOX. I don't think anyone farms them anymore and 8 players at the Stade wouldn't change that.

You also point out that it's an optional task in an optional area, which is the whole reason behind my suggestion. It doesn't affect the campaign at all and only affects VQ'ing.

It's funny the most valid argument against this idea is the one I haven't heard.

That it would change the now HM titan quest in the area.
That's the only reason that this would be a huge negative to play.

I caravan'd from Yak's past Serenity and it went well, Diessa Lowlands was a pain but that was at the beginning. Other than the "Grawl Bowl" just outside Surmia, there are no mobs whatsoever.
The only part of the N. Shiverpeaks that intimidate me is the Deldrimor Bowl when I tried it with 5 heroes. I may hike from ToA to do just that part.

The Crystal Desert would affect the main campaign and quest progression. Besides, I find the enemies challenging without being complete pissoffs there and I'm going to make an epic NF to Proph. Trip with 8 and try to knock it out in a single day (probably will have to make it two)

It's not my intention to make VQ'ing easier across the board.

I just see an outpost with no reason to be there, and an area that saps your will to live.


I don't know if ZVs are picked ahead of time on rotation and it's amazing coincidence, or if someone saw this thread and wanted to make it a mute point.
With the Falls and Reed Bog already off the list, they added Dry Top and Ettin's Back this week.
If I do EB (I probably will when I have time later today) then my whole reasoning from a self-interest point is rendered moot, since the rest of it will be in reasonable ToA range.

I won't say that this was a bad idea, but given how many people didn't like the idea, it's safe to say this idea is dead in the water.