Guild Wars Guru

AI, heroes, and resses

1 pages • Page 1
R
Relyk
Lion's Arch Merchant
• #1
I've only noticed this more recently but enemy AI seems to prioritizes heroes with a res on their bar. Most of the time, I notice this if I'm doing an elite area without res shrines and the 1-2 heroes that die first have res while the rest of my team is just fine. One problem that confounds this is fomf, dps, ua, etc. is usually on the healer, so I can't be perfectly sure; however any hero with res will usually be targeted. Also seems this can take as much priority as lower health or armor on heroes. Anyone else make similar observations?

I think it would be useful in suggesting which heroes should have what resses.
Bladed Tribble
Bladed Tribble
Academy Page
• #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Relyk View Post
One problem that confounds this is fomf, dps, ua, etc. is usually on the healer, so I can't be perfectly sure; however any hero with res will usually be targeted. That's your mistake. Healers are usually targeted first by the AI, plus they are squishies (low armor, higher priority on monster target list). You should try to keep your resurrection skills (UA is fine on monks, since it's pretty much an instant res) on other party members and not your healers. Think about it, when your whole party is pressured and/or being spiked, healers need to do their job to keep everyone alive, but if they stop for a good 3 seconds or so to resurrect the first person to die, chances are, more party members will die since the healer is no longer healing

As long as you keep the resurrection skills on any non-healer you shouldn't run into too many problems with them being killed. In regards to whether or not the heroes with resurrection skills are targeted first, I don't think they are, but I'm no expert :P
Marty Silverblade
Marty Silverblade
Administrator
• #3
Yeah, pretty much the above. Your testing has failed to distinguish between different variables. Saying 'my healers get attacked first because they have rezzes' is insufficient because there could be any number of reasons as to why your healers are getting attacked. Switch the rez to something else, and if the healers get targeted like they did before, the link between having a rez and being made a higher priority target is false.

PS: To save you the effort of doing the above (you can of course do it anyway just to see for yourself), the answer is that just having a skill on your bar will not cause aggro to change. See here: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Aggro

PPS: Rezzes should generally be on midline characters. A decent 7 hero build will not need more than three hard rezzes.
S
Spiritz
Forge Runner
• #4
I got a question on same thing - only recently have i noticed that heros now seem to wait before they rez you.Ive had my hero team kill all the foes in range then decide to rez me quite a few times and i never recall it happening in the past - i recall the usual bad timing for a rez by heros in past.
Either they tweaked the ai slighly or tweaked how the ai deals with certain rez skills - i just dunno lol.
t
timbo_3101
Ascalonian Squire
• #5
Whenever i play with my 7h teams, I bring an UA hero and two mimicry (primary or secondary Me). Therefore if someone dies, there is no noticeable effect (instantaneous and repeatable resurrections). It requires minor micro control, and I tend to use one or two Blood Rituals for my caster-based teams to accommodate the -1 energy regeneration effect.

It is still possible to wipe based on poor tactics/execution/defence, but for the most part this is fundamental to how I construct my 7h teams.
Lanier
Lanier
Desert Nomad
• #6
The 3 ressurects (I always aim for exactly 3) should be on midliners. Backline should never have a rez as it just cramps up their skillbar and either takes time during a battle to cast or wastes your elite skill. Yes, this applies to UA too. It is a pretty bad skill, and instant rezzes are not worth using if they take up your elite skill or either hurt your energy regen or provide a negilible second benefit (only useful with DH/HD since HB is superior in all other cases).
t
tcratty
Frost Gate Guardian
• #7
healers/protters shouldnt have rezz skills so they dont have to stop healing/protting in the middle of a battle but thats just my opinion
Mouse at Large
Mouse at Large
Jungle Guide
• #8
I generally run an all caster team in HM - 3 necro, 2 rit, a smite/hybrid monk and either a keystone or panic mesmer with me as an earth ele. One necro and one rit have resses and I carry a couple of scrolls.

Imho, if you need much more res capacity, you are doing it wrong
J
Jeydra
Forge Runner
• #9
I notice that the hero that dies most often in my teams is the MM (who isn't carry a res), so I think your conclusion is premature.
c
chuckles79
Wilds Pathfinder
• #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade View Post
t
tcratty
Frost Gate Guardian
• #11
in my exp they seem to attack the party member with least amount health in my case my MM cause she (livia) has the least amount due to the only hero i use a super rune (death) on
K
Kunder
Desert Nomad
• #12
Quote: Originally Posted by chuckles79 View Post
I beg to differ greatly. Play an imbagon in a plant area in Nightfall or rider area in Asura areas.
They suicide dive in to get soothing images on you, even if you haven't used any adrenal skills yet.

I have to admit though, that I haven't experimented by bringing a para without adrenal skills to see if they behave similarly. It might be a "profession lock" AI method. Also curious to see if they just react to the weaponry (priority spear, and shields).

I encourage anyone who currently has time to try this out and report back. I tested a long way back (shortly after HM was implemented) and found that there does seem to be some hierarchy of professions. That is, any monk automatically gets targeted more than other professions even with the exact same equipment/stats. This is only initial targeting though, not deciding what skill to use.

I don't believe enemies are more likely to target you based on weaponry other than the direct effect said weapons give in terms of +health and +armor. However, once they do target you, the weapon you are holding influences what type of character the AI thinks you are and what they cast on you. Hold a martial weapon, you get Empathy on you, hold a caster weapon and you get Backfire. Same goes for some spells allies cast on you, Splinter Weapon is equally fair game for anyone with a martial weapon even if they aren't attacking with it.

As to your specific example with Soothing Memories, if you are one of the only characters with a martial weapon in the group and an enemy is looking for something to use Soothing Memories on, you are the only valid target in the area. Keep in mind it is AoE as well, and if multiple enemies in the same group have it then you are getting hit no matter what unless you have lots of interruption to suppress their skill usage.
M
Morte66
Academy Page
• #13
I find that NPCs go after targets with low health and/or low armour. That tends to mean casters -- they have lower base armour, are more likely to have superior runes, are more likely to have caster mods in place of fortitude/defense mods, and sometimes they sacrifice health.

Minion masters are especially trouble prone. They're the most popular hero to carry superior runes and they often sacrifice with Masochishm and Blood of the Master. Once that's earned them aggro, they stand still to cast the 3 second Animate skills and 2 second Death Nova instead of running from melee. Giving them Dark Bond can help quite a bit.
R
Relyk
Lion's Arch Merchant
• #14
It doesn't really have to do with having res on healers. I think the answer is the heroes with res resurrect my other heroes during the wipe and subsequently die. It's happened enough but I have a hard time explaining why.

In the related topic, I bring 2 hard resses, one on st rit since he's away from the action and one on an offensive character. Bringing 3 hard res or ua is reserved for DoA.
P
Premium Unleaded
Wilds Pathfinder
• #15
Enemy AI does prioritise certain skills on certain professions afaik; things like shame/mark of subversion are only ever placed on monks & rits, whereas guilt/mistrust only on the other 3.
P
Plutoman
Krytan Explorer
• #16
Mobs won't prioritize based upon skills on a hero or player's bar. They will, however, prioritize by profession, by weapons, and by the types of skills they use.
Quaker
Quaker
Hell's Protector
• #17
All of my heroes carry a rez(usually Rez Chant), so I guess that eliminates any target bias based on rez.

Btw, it's not that I particularly want a rez on each Hero, but they always have a spot available. Or, to put it another way, the rez doesn't replace a skill - it simply fills an empty slot. I find that the Heroes are very good at using the rez only when appropriate.
m
moralfallacy
Ascalonian Squire
• #18
Quote: Originally Posted by chuckles79 View Post
I beg to differ greatly. Play an imbagon in a plant area in Nightfall or rider area in Asura areas.
They suicide dive in to get soothing images on you, even if you haven't used any adrenal skills yet.

I have to admit though, that I haven't experimented by bringing a para without adrenal skills to see if they behave similarly. It might be a "profession lock" AI method. Also curious to see if they just react to the weaponry (priority spear, and shields).

I encourage anyone who currently has time to try this out and report back. I normally do vanqs on my warrior and in plant heavy area's go with a non-adreno build, they still maintain soothing images as usual.
M
Malganis
Academy Page
• #19
Sorry for the late replay, but I've noticed that if you're a warrior or paragon primary or secondary, you will get Soothing Images cast on you every time, no matter what. I have not tested this with a dervish yet since the update.