Summer Project: My First Build

Well the current computer I have is about 5+ years old, so I figured it was time to do an upgrade. Instead of buying a new one, I've decided to build it myself. However, since this is my first build I would like some comments from experienced builders about the parts I have selected.

Goal: Build a mid-range gaming PC (see graphics card section for more info)

Budget: I would like to keep it around or under $1000

Alright, here we go with my parts list...

Computer Case
Cooler Master Storm Scout

Comments: I've heard Cooler Masters have good airflow, so I thought it would be a good choice for a case. Plus I like the look of it. From reading the feedback, only con is that it's heavy; though that's not that big of a deal for me.

Motherboard and CPU
ASUS M4A87TD EVO AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition Deneb 3.4GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache 6MB L3 Cache Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor

Comments: Decided to go with AMD over Intel because the price of AMD is cheaper for the same performance. Only negative feedback was that the CPU runs a bit hot when OC'ing (overclocking) and the stock fan/heatsink doesn't keep up. This won't be a problem for me since I won't be OC'ing anything since this is my first build.

Graphics Card
GTX 460

Comments: First off, I know that I'm buying an AMD board and that they bought ATi, so I know that I won't be able to dual card with NVIDIA. But as I stated in my goal section, I'm building a mid-range gaming PC. I don't do a lot of PC gaming, so I just need something that will handle current games as well as some new ones coming out. Games that I plan to play on this include:
Portal
Portal 2
Morrowind
Oblivion
Skyrim (when it releases)
Diablo III (when it releases)
GW
GW2 (when it releases)
Crysis
Crysis 2

I'm also not that big on graphic settings. I would like all of these games, plus other random ones that I'm sure I'll play to run at least on medium settings or better. I don't need every single setting to be uber maxed out. By reading posts on these boards it seems like the GTX 460 would suit my needs. As a reference I have a Geforce 8800 in my laptop and I'm happy with the graphics I get off of that.

HDD
Western Digital Caviar Black WD1001FALS 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive

Comments: 1 TB should be enough storage space for me. Only con from the feedback is that it doesn't come with cables, again a small detail that has no effect on me.

RAM
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL

Comments: Looking at the supported memory web page of MOBO all of the ones listed were no longer being sold, but I believe as long as the pins are correct I can use any memory I want. I'll probably throw in a total of 8GB of RAM just to make sure I can run everything at a decent speed. Feedback says this is a good choice for RAM, though trying to tweak it to make it run faster is a hassle. Like I said before, I won't be doing much OC'ing/tweaking so that isn't a problem

Optical Drive
ASUS 24X DVD Burner - Bulk 24X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 12X DVD+R DL 24X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM Black SATA Model DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS - OEM

Comments: Just need a basic drive. Since most newer games come on DVD's this seemed like it would fit the bill. I can always install a Blu-ray drive later, but right now I have no need for one.

PSU
CORSAIR Professional Series HX850 (CMPSU-850HX) 850W ATX12V 2.3 / EPS12V 2.91 80 PLUS SILVER Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

Comments: I don't know much about PSU's, but I've heard that Corsair is a good company to buy from. From using a couple online calculators that estimate wattage, 850W should be enough. The fact that it's silver certified is an added benefit.

So that's my part list. To any experienced builders out there give me your honest opinions about what I've picked. I don't want to be building my new PC using crap parts, but also keep in mind of what I'm trying to do with it. I'm not building a top of the line gaming machine, just a mid-range one that I will do a decent amount of gaming on, but probably 60% of the time will be used for everyday things such as school work and web surfing.

Looks good to me. I should upgrade to 6x2GB RAM with the triple-channel memory option, mine's only in dual-channel with 4GB.

Not on that board/chipset.

Hi,

That is similar to my last Build.
Seeing as you are using that board I would use a SATA 600 drive. My personal choice would be Western Digital as well, something along the lines of- WD Caviar Green WD10EARX - Hard drive - 1 TB - internal - 3.5" - SATA-600 - buffer: 64 MB.
I personally would go for an ATI card (bad experiences with Nvidia).
Also if using 64Bit OS go with as much Ram as you can afford, DDR3 is cheap as chips at the moment (excuse pun).
Also if using 32 Bit OS whatever graphics card you use the memory will count towards the 4GB limit.

Best of luck with your first build.

I would look at a gtx560ti over the gtx460.

I would also look at other case since the Scout is very tight on space for longer graphics cards i would look at one of the CM HAF cases. Been looking at the Cooler Master HAF 912 myself.

Also buying a AMD cpu with their new ones coming later this summer from what i heard is not very smart since intel and amd will hopefully come back into a prize war over that.

Just coming off the headache of building two new boxes myself, ATI cards are not immune to bad experiences. I've just RMA'ed a 4850 that does nothing but crash while my $30 cheap nVidia card is running just fine in the same machine. So, I gave up and returned the sucker. I got nothing but driver error after error. To the point where I could't even get the PC to POST at some points without flipping the PSU breaker switch on the back.

Funny you should mention the space issue. One of the reviewers of the Scout did mention space issue with bigger graphics cards. I was also looking at the HAF 922, but thought the side mesh panel would allow dust to easily get inside the case. Any thoughts on this?

Any reason to pick the 560 over the 460? Looking at Newegg, the 560 is going for about $250, and that is a little more than I want to spend right now on a graphics card. Is the GTX 460 that bad of a card?

Are you saying that I shouldn't be buying an AMD CPU? If so, why exactly shouldn't I buy AMD? For the same performance as an Intel chip AMD is a lot cheaper.

Looking at the WD Green drives, I couldn't find one that had an RPM of at least 7200 and from what I heard 7200 is the slowest speed I should consider for a HDD. Any other reason to pick a Green drive over the Black ones? Also I think 8GB of RAM is more than enough right now for what I plan to use it for. I can always throw in more RAM later if need be. But is the RAM I picked a good brand/stick to use?


Um....were you saying I picked a bad MOBO/CPU combo, or were you merely commenting on the triple channel post?




Sorry for all of the questions and whatnot. Like I said in my first post, since this is my first build I want to make sure I'm using good parts and have this go smoothly for me.

That will depend of if you get a low pressure in the case and that will only happen if you change the fan setup.

Only that the Gtx560 is quite a bit faster. If it's not within budget then gtx460 is a great choice.

Just saying you might want to wait until AMDs new series comes out because intels prizes might drop and the new AMDs might be cheaper then the current offers. It will be out earliest September if you are up for waiting.

Only reason for a lower rpm drive is lower power consumption and lower heat. So the green drives are great for confined spaces like a external drive case.

RAM is pretty easy to pick try to get at least 1333Mhz. Won't be much difference if you go higher. Even the CL(CAS latency) of the memory don't matter much unless you are looking at benchmarks. This board you will have to buy sticks by two.


Last take alook at this mobo http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128490 It's a smaller board with less features but it does support AMD new cpus if you later decide to upgrade the reason is because it says AM3+ and not AM3.

If you want to get a mobo more comparable to the one one picked then here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813128510

I got Gigabyte GTX 460 OC 1gb...can say it's really good atleast for now.
Can run GW at full graphics Full hp 1080p at +200 fps

Even Battlefield Bad Company 2 runs max graphics full hd greatly. +60fps atleast.

Purely commenting on the ill-informed triple channel post

Looking some more on the build i see a 850W psu which is pure overkill on a system with only one graphics card and 750W is enough to run two gtx560TI in sli without problems with a good brand psu like corsair. If you are also prepared to go non modular on the psu you can take $60 of the psu without any problems.

It can be a good investment for the future if you decide to build a more power hungry system. Also modular is really good so you don't need to hide a stack of cables in your case but that's also the cost issue.

Frankly, I think your priorities are a bit off. I think you should be concentrating on getting the best performance you can get at that price. Therefore, I'd like to comment on your choices based on that idea.

The Storm Scout may be a nice case, and have some nice features, but it does cost $90. True, it's probably well built, etc., but you could save a lot of money to put towards a better CPU and graphics card, by just getting any old $25 case that you like the looks of. Yes, the $25 case will be relatively flimsy, but again, it's a matter of priorities - it's probably just going to sit on your desk or on the floor and be ignored anyway.

AMD processors can't be beat for price/performance at the low to mid-range level, but with your budget you can go for better if you cut in some other areas. Unfortunately for AMD, on the higher end of the performance spectrum these days, you can't beat Intel, and for a gamer all you need is an i5-2400 or 2500K (and appropriate motherboard) for the best performance you can currently get. (You don't need the hyperthreading of a 2600K)
This is only true at the low to mid-range end, but as I said, with a few changes you can easily afford better.

The GTX 460 is a good card. You may be able to do better, but you may not need to.

Take a look at the size of hard drive you have now, and how much of it you really use and then decide if maybe a 500Gig isn't large enough.

If you're not going to be overclocking, you don't need anything except 4Gigs of plain old "value" DDR3-1333 RAM.

This is way overkill. With just one GTX 460 you would only need a 450watt power supply. Even allowing for a more powerful card, you wouldn't need anything over 600watts. A larger power supply does not make your computer more powerful.

So, bottom line, If you are only concerned with building a "mid-range" gaming rig, you could do it a lot cheaper using less expensive parts in a few places, but sticking with the AMD setup. If you want to get the most gaming performance you can for $1000 or so, you really should put the money into a better CPU and motherboard and cut back on the pricey case, RAM and power supply

Change the fan setup? What exactly do you mean?

Just don't feel like spending $250 on a graphics card at the moment, so I'll stick with the 460 for now.

@Draco:
As far as the MOBO is concerned, I think I'll stick with what I have since from what everyone is saying it's not a bad board. Looked at your suggestions and I like what I picked out better. They both only have one PS/2 port and I'm using my old keyboard and mouse and need 2 of those ports. But I still appreciate the suggestion.

I also know that the PSU I picked out is a bit overkill, but it's nice to have more than you need as a future investment. Looking at Corsair's 750w modular PSU I'd only save about $30.

@Snograt:
That's what I thought, but just wanted to be sure.

@Quaker:
I think you might have misunderstood what I meant in my first post. I am building a mid-range gaming PC (because I don't really do much gaming) but as far as the $1000 goes that isn't my goal price, just the max I would be willing to spend. I am trying to keep it under that and not really spend that if I don't have to for what I want. So I'll comment on your suggestions.

Case:
Seeing as the case houses everything, I would like a well built one that will do a decent job of protecting my parts as well as provide good airflow. CM is known for airflow so I thought that would be a nice choice. Plus seeing as the case is the thing that is seen a good looking one doesn't hurt.

MOBO/CPU:
You said it yourself that AMD is better at the low/mid range. Since I'm going for a mid-range, shouldn't I buy AMD? I'm not trying to build a beast gaming machine and the iX series is just a bit too expensive at the moment. Looking at the i5-2400 you suggested, I would be paying more than the AMD processor.

Graphics card:
Take a look at the games I plan to play (mainly Crysis since that is still the most graphics intenstive), does a 460 handle those? Also I'm not looking to max out all of the settings. From what other threads have said, the 460 should be sufficient.

HDD:
I plan to upgrade to Win7 so that's 10-20 gigs right there. Plus with me throwing games on it, storage space will slowly be eaten. 1TB should be a good investment and should last a long while, don't you think?

RAM:
Again with using Win7, if I remember from my OS class I had this past semester, it is recommended to have at least 2 gigs. So that would only leave me with 2 gigs for everything else. I was originally only going to put in 6, but since the G.SKILL comes in 4GB packages I was just going to throw in the other stick and make it 8.

PSU:
I know a bigger power supply doesn't mean a more powerful system, but again it's an investment for the future. When I upgrade sometime down the road I will already have a big enough PSU to handle those upgrades and that will be one less thing I will need to buy later.



Keep the feedback/comments coming guys. I appreciate all of it. Want to make this first build go as smoothly as possible.

Both the haf case and the scout can have more fans installed then comes out of the box and if you wanted you can move those that comes with the case. That would change airflow in and airflow out. If out is bigger then in both cases will draw in air from the side panels which would make dust come in. in the intake fans take enough in all that dust will have to pass the dust filter.

After the dx11 and high res texture gtx460 will not run Crysis 2 on max. All other games should be no problems. Reserving the right to be wrong about the unreleased games

1TB is large enough if aren't going to tell me you plan to A: Do 3D graphics B: edit HD movies C: rip all your dvds D: download the internet (or just a lot of torrents).

@Draca:
I probably will leave the fans as the are for now.

As far as the 460 goes, will it run Crysis 2 at decent settings? Like I said before, I'm not trying to max out settings just something that is decent and playable. So like medium settings or above.

Will run on decent settings..ATLEAST.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3qF-9Gd8Ew

AND
You processor 965..it's same as 955, just factoryclocked if im right, why not save some money and just clock 955 to 965 at home?

Graphics card:
Take a look at the games I plan to play (mainly Crysis since that is still the most graphics intenstive), does a 460 handle those? Also I'm not looking to max out all of the settings. From what other threads have said, the 460 should be sufficient.

When you stat Cyrsis do you mean cyrsis 2

Cyrsis 2 is a hog on performance ~especially with the texture packs and DX11 engaged. I would look to higher card or you may be disappointed.

I have just a 6850 factory over clocked and it groans at ultra dx11 ~ choppy but I see all the graphics (They are awesome) but it is a choppy mess sometimes. You have to tame them down to get the playability.

This is the time to go bigger before you get stuck

BTW no problems for you to run it in DX9 but going to dx11 ?

Got a gtx470 myself playing Crysis 2 @ high dx11 high res texture. Depending on the overclock of the GtX460 (Almost no 460 run at stock speeds) it will come close.

It's not that I misunderstood, it's that you weren't clear.
I did say that you could either build a cheaper mid-range system OR go for more performance (at $1K). It is, of course, up to you.

Almost any case will protect everything and provide good airflow. A lot of the "airflow" stuff is just marketing hype. IF you were building a high-end system and/or severely overclocking things, you might need the extra airflow from a fancy case, but in a typical mid-range system, you don't need it.
Again, it's your choice as to what you want to buy, but you asked for opinions, so I'm giving them. And my opinion on the case is that you can get a good looking, adequate airflow case a lot cheaper. I'm not suggesting that you get the cheapest case you can, but there are a lot of $25-$50 (without power supply) well built and good looking cases.
For example:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16811133094
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product...82E16811147023
Btw, I can tell you from experience that the high airflow cases with the mesh fronts can, depending upon how dusty your place is, be a real pain as far as keeping them free from an ugly layer of dust in the front.

That is correct. Here's some good info:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...-cpu,2971.html

Probably. Don't forget to take into account your screen rez. Here's some more good info:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...card,2964.html

It may depend upon the relative cost of the hard drives. If the 1TB is not that much more then go for it (but they seem to cost almost twice what a 500GB goes for.)
I have Windows 7, plus lots of apps, plus thousands of mp3's, plus hundreds of videos and I still only use about 250Gigs. (I have 1 500Gig split into a 200G C: drive and a 300G D: drive, plus 2x500Gig in a RAID1 config for backup - so some of that 250Gig is duplicates.)
So, I think 500Gig would probably do for years - and you can always add more HDD later.

That 2Gigs is the recommendation for Win7 plus average apps.
I have Win 7 64-bit and 4Gigs of DDR3-1333. While running GW, plus Firefox, plus a Ventrilo server, plus a Ventrilo client, plus Skype, plus all the little apps for my G19 keyboard, I still only use about 50% of my RAM - as indicated by the G19's Performance Monitor.
So 4Gigs is enough for most uses.
In any case, I was mainly suggesting you use plain vanilla "value" DDR3-1333 RAM instead of 1600 RAM, without regard to the quantity of RAM.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231253

So buy a 600-650watt power supply. That would handle any likely future upgrade, especially given the general downward trend to power usage. Plus, of course, with the way things go these days, by the time you want to upgrade, there will be new connectors you'll need anyway.

I'm not looking to run games on ultra high extreme uber graphics settings. I'm just looking for decent frame rates with decent graphics.

@Quaker:
I do appreciate your opinions, seeing as you have more building experience I'll take all the advice I can get.

Case:
The "mesh" part I was talking about was the side panel on the HAF 922, where it's open for installation of two more fans. Was wondering if dust would easily get into that section.

Thanks for the links to the articles, some good info in them.

Graphics Card:
My monitor is a 17" or 19" (don't exactly remember off-hand) with a rez of 1024 x 768. So I should be able to pull decent settings with a 460 right?

Ram:
Hmm.....seems the big difference between the one I linked to in my OP and the one you linked to is that mine has a heat spreader. Is that something I really need, or is it just more mark-up stuff to get more money out of me? lol

I wasn't commenting about that particular case, just high-airflow cases with mesh fronts in general. I use an older CM Centurion case which has a mesh front. The front is constantly covered in dust trapped in the mesh and requires constant vacuuming with a handy-vac. For my next case I'd like to have one without so much mesh.

It's time to enter the 21st century. Get yourself a nice 22-24" 1680x1050 or 1920x1080 monitor - you won't regret it. I couldn't imagine going back to so little screen space.
But, in any case, at 1024x768, a GTX 460 would get fat from lack of exercise.
P.s - are you sure it's not 1280x1024 at least?

Heat spreaders started out as aids to overclocking where the RAM may dissipate extra heat, then, of course, they became eye candy. But no, if you are not overclocking, or even mildly oc'ing, you don't need heat spreaders.

Unfortunately, I currently don't have any extra space for a bigger monitor at the moment. Taking a quick look at my graphics center, I can go bigger (1360 x 1024 to be exact), but I like this current rez since nothing is either super tiny or super big. Also I'm guessing by that exercise comment your saying the GTX 460 will suit my needs quite well?

After doing a bit of internet search after making my post, I came up with the same thing. Heat spreaders are only needed if you are either a)OC'ing your RAM or b) Trying to run some sort of server that is doing a lot of processing. Since I'm not running a server and I'm not going to be OC'ing anything because this is my first build and I don't want to screw anything up I'll probably save myself a few bucks and go with those 1333 G.Skills you linked to.

With that low res monitor the gtx460 will be overkill if anything.

Well I ordered my parts. Changed a few things from my first post (new case, smaller PSU, and different RAM). I appreciate all of the input from everybody.

Next question...

Anybody have any tips for when I'm actually building it?

Don't put it together in an area where you generate static and make sure you are discharged before handling anything electronic.

Make sure you don't have any excess standoffs under the motherboard when you install it. There should only be one standoff for each corresponding mounting hole in the mobo.

Have as light grip on the sides of the cards as possible. Do not the alarmed some components like the ram might need some force to get in place.

Have another question...

So last week I got my parts and built my system. However, when I turned on the computer I got no image on my monitor. It seemed like it went into a power save state of sorts. I reseated my vid card and all of the other troubleshooting things and narrowed it down to either a bad card or the PCIe slot on my mobo was bad. After talking to Nvidia tech support they said it was probably a bad card so I RMA'd it since that would have been the lesser of two evils instead of having to dismantle the whole thing if it was a bad PCIe slot.

So today I got my replacement card in the mail and now I'm looking at the DVI/VGA adapter that came packaged with it. It was missing a few pins and I was at first shocked. But after looking at the Wikipedia page I saw that it is normal for some pins to be missing. However my connector does not look like any of those shown. Here's what it looks like:

I talked to Nvidia tech support about this and all I got was a response that different manufacturers make different pin layouts. Ok, I can get that maybe but then why does this pin layout not match anything online that I searched for. I can't find anything that shows this same pin layout in an adapter.

I haven't tested this new card out yet because I haven't had the time, but before I do I want to ask if this adapter could be defective with this pin layout. Should I buy a new adapter instead of trying this one? I'm just trying to narrow possible things to look at if this new card doesn't work and does the same thing as the first.

Just for quick reference:
My monitor has a VGA cable
Vid card: GTX 460 which only has DVI slots

First if your monitor support dvi use it, it's better for signal noise.

However the vga/dvi should atleast have the pins shown in dvi-a in this picture from the same wiki article clicky.

Also try both outputs sometimes one is the "first" connector and only that will show a picture monitor. Also make sure the card is fully resting in the top pci-e slot and has all the power connectors inserted.

1. If the motherboard you got has on-board video, make sure (in the BIOS/setup) that the on-board is disabled or set to "auto".

2. Did you remember to connect the PCIe power connector(s) to the GTX460? I think the GTX 460 needs two 6-pin connectors.

3. There are several different configurations of DVI connectors. Almost any DVI-to-VGA adapter should fit. The adapter does not need to have all of the DVI pins to work - just the ones needed for VGA - however there is a possibility that it may not pass all the wanted connections - specifically, the connections related to P'n'P detection of the monitor.
In any case, you don't have to use the specific adapter that came with the card.

I personally think you should save up more and build something decent. With any iX processor that intel offers. I have been building (and overclocking) for years, starting with AMD. Everytime I switched to intel I was very impressed. As others have mentioned, you don't need to worry about airflow with your current system. I would recommend saving more money to build it right the first time, as I am currently doing. 2k budget for mine, but im saving to meet the budget.

EDIT: Late on my post Anyway, make sure to read your mobo manual. Sometimes you have to disable particular PCIe slots in order for a single GPU to be recognized properly.

Problem is, it's a decent system. Just not a amazing one.

Bit hard to tell from that, but one of the problems with DVI is that video cards often have DVI-I sockets whereas monitors generally have DVI-D sockets (Or is that vice versa?)

A DVI-D plug will fit into a DVI-I socket, but the reverse is not true.

Well it turns out the PCI-E slots on my MOBO were dead. Tested this with a friend's card that I new worked and still no picture. Also just to be sure I plugged my card into his system and it worked. So I'm currently waiting on a replacement MOBO atm...