Just re-installed guild wars again after some time of not playing and have been trying to come up with a decent hero setup.
Here is what I currently have.
Me (R/Rt)
[Barrage][D-shot][Savage Shot][Favorable winds][winnowing][EBSoH][Lightning Reflexs][Summon Spirits]
3 Barrage heros (R/P)
[Barrage][D-shot][Savage Shot][Find their weakness][Go for the eyes][Stand your groud][Lightning Reflexs][Rez Sig]
[Barrage][D-shot][Savage Shot][Fall back][Bladeturn Refrain][Anthem of Envy][Lightning Reflexs][Rez Sig]
[Barrage][D-shot][Savage Shot][Hexbreaker Aria][Anthem of Weariness][Sloth Hunters shot][Lightning Reflexs][We shall return]
Orders (D/N)
[Avatar of Dwyana][Order of Pain][Dark Fury][Mystic Healing][Meditation][Imbue Health][Whirling Charge][Fleeting Stability]
UA (Mo/E)
[Unyeilding Aura][Divine Healing][Heavens Delight][Mend Ailment][Shield of Absorption][Prot Spirit][Aegis][Glyph of lesser energy]
HB (Mo/Me)
[Healers Boon][Dwyana's Kiss][Ethereal Light][Sig of Rejuvenation][Cure Hex][Waste not, want not][Power Drain][Arcane Mimicry]
Bomber (N/Rt)
[Jagged Bones][Sig of Lost souls][Animate Bone minions][Death Nova][Putrid Bile][Masochism][Ancestors Rage][Splinter Weapon]
Any suggestions on how to optimize this or is the idea just no good and id be better off with something else?
Thanks
Help with my 7 Heros
Silvia Shadowback
Prestige
I'd give up a Barrage Ranger for a Panic mesmer. Their`s more Caster-Mob control if you want my opinion by adding a Panic Mesmer. :P!
Quaker
Just off-hand, I don't see the purpose in Summon Spirits in your build. You only have FW and Winnow, which have such a large area of effect there's not much need to pull them around with you. You'd be better off carrying something like Pain Inverter or Technobabble, imho.
If you are concerned about having FW up, you could replace Savage Shot on one of your R/Ps with FW.
Another off-hand thought - I'm not a big fan of minion bombing Heroes and since you have a number of rangers but no pets, I would use just a standard MM build such as:
N/Mo - DM 12+2+1, SR 10+1, HP 8 - [Animate Flesh Golem or Jagged Bones][Animate Bone Horror][Animate Shambling Horror][Deathly Swarm][Putrid Bile][Heal Area][Blood of the Master][Rez Chant]
Thought #3 - Modify the UA as:
Mo/Rt - HP 9+2+1, DF 9+1, Resto 12 - [Word of Healing][Recuperation][Rejuvenation][Signet of Rejuvenation][Healing Breeze][Spirit Light][Mend Body & Soul][Rez Chant]
Thought #4
It's best to have your healers set as "Avoid Combat" and putting Power Drain and Arcane Mimicry on your HB is asking for trouble.
Thought #5
One of your R/Ps could carry Broad Head Arrow instead of Barrage.
If you are concerned about having FW up, you could replace Savage Shot on one of your R/Ps with FW.
Another off-hand thought - I'm not a big fan of minion bombing Heroes and since you have a number of rangers but no pets, I would use just a standard MM build such as:
N/Mo - DM 12+2+1, SR 10+1, HP 8 - [Animate Flesh Golem or Jagged Bones][Animate Bone Horror][Animate Shambling Horror][Deathly Swarm][Putrid Bile][Heal Area][Blood of the Master][Rez Chant]
Thought #3 - Modify the UA as:
Mo/Rt - HP 9+2+1, DF 9+1, Resto 12 - [Word of Healing][Recuperation][Rejuvenation][Signet of Rejuvenation][Healing Breeze][Spirit Light][Mend Body & Soul][Rez Chant]
Thought #4
It's best to have your healers set as "Avoid Combat" and putting Power Drain and Arcane Mimicry on your HB is asking for trouble.
Thought #5
One of your R/Ps could carry Broad Head Arrow instead of Barrage.
pakhavit
I would move one of the spirit to hero and bring the 3rd pve skill, and a hard rez on rit instead of Ancestor rage because I hate rez sig.
Pugs Not Drugs
on my ranger, I run either a r/a dagger spam with an enraging lunge pet or a r/w axe with enraging lunge pet depending on whether i want single target damage or aoe. my heroes are
sos/resto rit with splinter
st rit in hard areas, sogm in easy
panic mesmer
ineptitude mesmer
AotL mm with prots
Roj monk with party heals
roj monk with party heals
one of the rojs also carries soh, the other a hard rez
sos/resto rit with splinter
st rit in hard areas, sogm in easy
panic mesmer
ineptitude mesmer
AotL mm with prots
Roj monk with party heals
roj monk with party heals
one of the rojs also carries soh, the other a hard rez
Xenomortis
Healing Breeze is useful but its energy costs make it impractical for a Monk. Recuperation on a hero monk is just asking for trouble.
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Originally Posted by Quaker
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Also, keep in mind that, at the current attribute levels, Recuperation gives a constant +3 health regen for 39 seconds with no additional energy costs. It also means that the monks need less additional healing, thereby allowing them to use smaller, less energy hungry heals.
Not really. See, damage can't really be modeled as constant pressure; in PvE you get nuked and you need something to push bars up right now. Recuperation isn't the skill you want. And ultimately, due to the nature of heroes, Recuperation might save your heroes one or two heals at best. Similarly, Healing Breeze doesn't really save your heroes an extra heal at all.
Recuperation does have uses, but they are nowhere near good enough for me to invest in when dealing with heroes.
Recuperation does have uses, but they are nowhere near good enough for me to invest in when dealing with heroes.
Outerworld
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Originally Posted by Quaker
Actually, no, it's not "just plain terrible" - it works very well. But, you have to keep in mind that this is used in conjunction with a regular HB monk.
As far as energy management is concerned - given that it carries a high energy staff and uses two signets (which need no energy), plus normal energy regen, energy is not a problem.
Also, keep in mind that, at the current attribute levels, Recuperation gives a constant +3 health regen for 39 seconds with no additional energy costs. It also means that the monks need less additional healing, thereby allowing them to use smaller, less energy hungry heals.
I know that Healing Breeze is one of the skills that "leet" players like to crap on, but it does an excellent job of combating degen.
Think outside the PvXbox.
In the situations where I want health back I'd rather have it instantly and not over time. Your point on degen is valid but there are better skills than Healing Breeze that can be used to combat it.
Perhaps it's actually you should that think outside whatever box you're in if you think what you posted was good advice...
As far as energy management is concerned - given that it carries a high energy staff and uses two signets (which need no energy), plus normal energy regen, energy is not a problem.
Also, keep in mind that, at the current attribute levels, Recuperation gives a constant +3 health regen for 39 seconds with no additional energy costs. It also means that the monks need less additional healing, thereby allowing them to use smaller, less energy hungry heals.
I know that Healing Breeze is one of the skills that "leet" players like to crap on, but it does an excellent job of combating degen.
Think outside the PvXbox.
In the situations where I want health back I'd rather have it instantly and not over time. Your point on degen is valid but there are better skills than Healing Breeze that can be used to combat it.Perhaps it's actually you should that think outside whatever box you're in if you think what you posted was good advice...
Wenspire
If you are going to use multiple barrage rangers, your healing monk would benefit greatly with Vigorous Spirit equipped.
Belzebu
If you are going as a barrager I would remove the HB monk and add a SoS Resto Rit with splinter.
Also the idea of give the spirits to your heroes are a good idea, then change your build to r/w for "Save Yourselves!"
I agree with Pugs, builds with pets are good ranger builds, barrage at HM makes the mob scatter and then it lose all its power.
Also the idea of give the spirits to your heroes are a good idea, then change your build to r/w for "Save Yourselves!"
I agree with Pugs, builds with pets are good ranger builds, barrage at HM makes the mob scatter and then it lose all its power.
Wenspire
Barrage doesnt cause enemy scatter. Ignite Arrow with any multi-shot skill does though.
Quaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maver1ck87
- there are only 2 Rit "heals" in the build. Spirit Light gives more healing than most monk heals, even with +50%. MB&S is mostly for the multiple condition removal.
- It doesn't really matter how many Monk skills you have, if the 2 you do have are enough (given recharge time, usage, etc.)
Quote: 3) same applies to heal breeze! It's a good skill in some situations - BUT has negative synergy with UA! Might as well take cure hex if ur worried about degen as it not only removes some of the degen but the heal benefits from UA! Sorry, my mistake. I thought there were other sources of degen besides Hexes.
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In the situations where I want health back I'd rather have it instantly and not over time.
It's a combination of Recuperation/Rejuvenation and "instant" heals. The regular HB monk is mostly responsible for the "instant" heals, plus the UA Mo/Rit helps with the signets. (Note that I said that the UA Mo/Rt is used with a regular HB Monk.)
Going pure "redbar" with instant heals is not a good idea.
Going pure "redbar" with instant heals is not a good idea.
Xenomortis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaker
- there are only 2 Rit "heals" in the build. Spirit Light gives more healing than most monk heals, even with +50%. MB&S is mostly for the multiple condition removal.
- It doesn't really matter how many Monk skills you have, if the 2 you do have are enough (given recharge time, usage, etc.)
The good monk heals are going to quickly beat Spirit Light, especially under UA. Remember that Monk spells get the benefit of Divine Favor whereas the Rit heals do not so your second point is largely false. MBAS is excellent condition removal however, but even so it's not generally worth putting this on a Monk when other templates can so easily take it.
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Originally Posted by Quaker
Sorry, my mistake. I thought there were other sources of degen besides Hexes.
Conditions aren't scary; you have MBAS after all.
Quaker
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Originally Posted by Xenomortis
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You're right, I forgot about that. So, the UA is only for the instant rez. So just think of it as a rez, like if it was Rez Chant and don't get all twisted up about the +50%.
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Conditions aren't scary; you have MBAS after all.
Make up your mind, should it have MB&S or not! But, seriously, I find Healing Breeze to be the most misunderstood Monk skill. Too many people look upon Healing Breeze as if it was the only skill in a build. But, in reality, I find that the Heroes use HB very appropriately. I also find that the MOnk Heroes tend to use certain spells over and over again, so just giving them more skills doesn't change much. HB can be used on all allies, including the caster. It can be used to counter degen and it can be used as just a bulk heal. It gives significant regen even at low levels of Healing Prayers.
Quaker
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Originally Posted by Outerworld
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My HB monk has Cure Hex and Mend Ailment and the UA has MB&S - Breeze is not the only degen counter, nor is it only for degen countering, nor is it the only heal skill in the bars.
Healing Breeze is not misunderstood at all, it's a 10e skill on a 2s recharge and probably more of a drain on energy than something actually useful.
If you think that 10e is too much for 15 seconds of +8 health regen, you certainly do misunderstand it.  @Lanier - BS! If you were to actually monitor what your heroes are doing, you'd see that they don't just randomly rez people. Actually, they do a very good job of only rezzing when they have the time and energy to do it safely. Also, except for a few specific builds, there is no advantage to loading up a whole bunch of skills in your Hero's bars. Again, if you observe them in practice, particularly the monks, you'd see that they primarily use only 4 or 5 main skills - so they usually have room for a rez, unless you micro-manage them. P.S. Keep in mind that we're talking Heroes in PvE here. Many players carry over a lot of unnecessary stuff from PvP. Outerworld
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaker
Considering +8 regen isn't that impressive at all, then yes I do think 10e is too much and please...don't reply with something like "but 8 regen over 15 seconds is 240 health!" for it doesn't actually mean anything.@Lanier; it's not just that UA resses a party member, it's that it resses a party member at both full health and energy, no other res does that except DPS at a high resto spec. Now granted it would be better to not die at all, but Heroes aren't perfect so it's nice to know that when someone does happen to die that they can be brought back instantly to stop the situation for escalating. Elfblade
granted but people do, 2 resses is the limit but ua isnt a bad monk skill considering it gives 50% extra healing on all spells also on all spells. I do not bring ua myself but it isnt a bad skill as it prevents wipes when you need an instant ress.
Edit: xenomortis stated it much better
Lanier
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenomortis
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Quaker
@Lanier - BS! If you were to actually monitor what your heroes are doing, you'd see that they don't just randomly rez people. Actually, they do a very good job of only rezzing when they have the time and energy to do it safely.
Also, except for a few specific builds, there is no advantage to loading up a whole bunch of skills in your Hero's bars. Again, if you observe them in practice, particularly the monks, you'd see that they primarily use only 4 or 5 main skills - so they usually have room for a rez, unless you micro-manage them. Didnt see this post earlier so i'll respond to it here. I don't know how much experience you have with monks, but it has been the consensus for the past several years that bringing rezzes on the backline is a bad idea when you could bring them on the midline. I'm also going to call BS on the latter half of this quote. I don't micro my heroes, and they use all 6 of their heals or prots (+ their 2 inspiration e-management skills) quite well. They don't just stick with "4 or 5 main skills". Maybe you need to observe your heroes more (or change their skills)? Heroes use some skills more than others - the trick is giving them skills that they will use often while staying within the bounds of their active and passive energy management. And FYI, I closely observed my monk heroes when I was creating their builds. I'm not just pulling this out of my ass.
Quaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanier
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They don't just stick with "4 or 5 main skills".
I probably wasn't too clear on that, so let me put it this way - in PvE there is not as much need for Heroes to carry a variety of skills to counter a large variety of situations. Naturally, if you equip them with a larger variety of skills, they will use more skills. In some builds (mostly non-monk) you need more skills to get the proper mechanic. But, in PvE, a monk Hero only needs 2 or 3 spam-ish-able heals or prots, and a couple of condition/hex removers. There is always room for a rez. Despite what some people may claim, I find (my) Heroes to be very good at using skills at the proper times. I find that the "mid-liners" as some would call them - the Necro, Ele, or Mesmer - do most of the rezzing. The Monks only rez if they have enough energy and the team is not receiving much damage at the moment (usually after the battle). So, there is no particular reason to actually prevent the Monks from rezzing. NOTE - In any case, the UA build I had posted earlier was one I had only recently changed to UA. Because I had forgotten about UA not working with signets, the UA becomes counter-productive unless micro-managed. (UA's energy regen loss doesn't matter if you only use it to rez and don't maintain it.) So, I changed my original post to reflect the latest changes, which essentially puts the build back the way it was, with no UA. In that build, if you don't want a rez, you could substitute Signet of Devotion or whatever. Missing HB
The problem with your build is that, the way it is, you don't really have a tanker and because of that, you will probably end up being facerolled in 10 sec in some areas( elite ones in HM especially and 2-3 dungeons...)
You surely at least need pets, but then you might find that a r/p bar would be much better ( otyugh and all pet attacks , with barbed + burning spear...)... Both builds would work, but you would need to play melee yourself for barrage heroes as R/W with save yourself and sword attacks then to make it optimal in my opinion.
Xenomortis |