I'm glad I VQ'd Cantha before starting WoC. I stepped out there with a group of relatively experienced players and we got our asses handed to us. I'm all for a challenge for the fun of it, but I feel bad for everyone that has to VQ during WoC... I'd cry. There should be some sort of alternate way to vanquish the area in a pre-WoC format.
Does the same thing happen when trying to VQ parts of Tyria after starting WiK? I've been away a LONG time and haven't started either chain yet. I want to catch up with the lore between GW and GW2, but I'll definitely put it off if it means it'll make VQing Tyria even more of a pain in the ass than it already is.
WoC issue: Fix unreasonable Minister Cho's Estate spawns
NYC Elite
ChrisCo
/Signed
Its insanely hard and NEEDS to be fixed. The groups are wayyyy too powerful no matter what builds your using.
hopefully it gets done soon also.
Its insanely hard and NEEDS to be fixed. The groups are wayyyy too powerful no matter what builds your using.
hopefully it gets done soon also.
Attiq
How many of the people who say they've done it have actually done it after completing the WoC content...... I think the people who are saying they've done it are talking about characters that havent even started doing the WoC.
If you have managed to do it set a link up with video on U-Tube or somewhere showing your build and your actual completion of the area....
I've done a fair bit of reading about this to the point of also going to the official GW's bug forums and one QA person said in reply to someone that they are a aware of it and have no plans to fix it.
So I decided at that point to email support and got the reply that they are aware of it but don't have a time frame of when it will be fixed.... Better than the first answer but still annoying.....
What, to my understanding nobody has addressed yet is, that with Cho's estate in the fix it is right now, it stops four titles in their tracks..... You will not be able to complete four titles...... Canthan Vanquisher, Canthan Cartographer and the two Legendary versions of those titles..... Well maybe Cartographer in NM but forget Vanquisher.
I would really appreciate some build links to manage the area..... I'm a Derv and my fellow player is a monk.... suggest away
If you have managed to do it set a link up with video on U-Tube or somewhere showing your build and your actual completion of the area....
I've done a fair bit of reading about this to the point of also going to the official GW's bug forums and one QA person said in reply to someone that they are a aware of it and have no plans to fix it.
So I decided at that point to email support and got the reply that they are aware of it but don't have a time frame of when it will be fixed.... Better than the first answer but still annoying.....
What, to my understanding nobody has addressed yet is, that with Cho's estate in the fix it is right now, it stops four titles in their tracks..... You will not be able to complete four titles...... Canthan Vanquisher, Canthan Cartographer and the two Legendary versions of those titles..... Well maybe Cartographer in NM but forget Vanquisher.
I would really appreciate some build links to manage the area..... I'm a Derv and my fellow player is a monk.... suggest away
Otah
If it was intentional then they are having a joke. Maybe mocking the complaints about Hard Mode being a breeze nowadays..
All areas affected by WoC have become harder. Which is good - Haiju Lagoon, Zen Daijun and Shadows Passage for example are all now an actual challenge. They are harder but they are still doable.
Cho's Estate on the other hand... They must have thought it was a 6 man team area or something. I wonder if any of the team actually bothered testing the area before releasing the updates.
It is a lot harder than the other WoC updated areas. Pretty much impossible.
I'd like to see some evidence of anyone vanquishing the area.
I still need that area for vanquisher. I've only completed the NM quests in WoC and I've seen that vanquishing during the HM 'Cleansing Cho's Estate' is doable, having mobs of 5 Afflicted rather than 6+ Scavengers.
But I really don't want to go through all the prerequisite HM quests in the other areas just to unlock this one. The NM quests were grindy enough...
C'mon ANet sort it out!
All areas affected by WoC have become harder. Which is good - Haiju Lagoon, Zen Daijun and Shadows Passage for example are all now an actual challenge. They are harder but they are still doable.
Cho's Estate on the other hand... They must have thought it was a 6 man team area or something. I wonder if any of the team actually bothered testing the area before releasing the updates.
It is a lot harder than the other WoC updated areas. Pretty much impossible.
I'd like to see some evidence of anyone vanquishing the area.
I still need that area for vanquisher. I've only completed the NM quests in WoC and I've seen that vanquishing during the HM 'Cleansing Cho's Estate' is doable, having mobs of 5 Afflicted rather than 6+ Scavengers.
But I really don't want to go through all the prerequisite HM quests in the other areas just to unlock this one. The NM quests were grindy enough...
C'mon ANet sort it out!
Jeydra
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Attiq
How many of the people who say they've done it have actually done it after completing the WoC content...... I think the people who are saying they've done it are talking about characters that havent even started doing the WoC.
If you have managed to do it set a link up with video on U-Tube or somewhere showing your build and your actual completion of the area.... I've done a fair bit of reading about this to the point of also going to the official GW's bug forums and one QA person said in reply to someone that they are a aware of it and have no plans to fix it. So I decided at that point to email support and got the reply that they are aware of it but don't have a time frame of when it will be fixed.... Better than the first answer but still annoying..... What, to my understanding nobody has addressed yet is, that with Cho's estate in the fix it is right now, it stops four titles in their tracks..... You will not be able to complete four titles...... Canthan Vanquisher, Canthan Cartographer and the two Legendary versions of those titles..... Well maybe Cartographer in NM but forget Vanquisher. I would really appreciate some build links to manage the area..... I'm a Derv and my fellow player is a monk.... suggest away |
This vanquish can actually get harder if you have more humans, because coordination suffers. Tips for you:
1. Pay close attention to aggro. The moment you aggro too many mobs, scram.
2. Use spirits. The vanquish can be done with one Ritualist hero, but there's little reason not to use two. Set up spirit walls before aggroing any mob, and Longbow pull them.
3. Leave the healing to heroes. Both you and your Monk friend should play for damage. Some emergency healing isn't a bad idea, but the primary aim should be damage. Bring YMLAD and EBVAS; the mobs tend to have only one healer and that's easily spiked out. Once the healer dies the mob is a lot easier to kill. Frozen Soil is not necessary.
I'm sure my view is biased towards AP casters, because I use an Elementalist primary, but there's no reason why any other profession cannot do the vanquish.
OChunx
Jeydra, I think a good reason to actually vanquish the area is to prove that it's actually doable. You're the only person in this thread who says that it's doable (even with two rangers) yet you haven't actually killed anything, besides for the "first few mobs". Considering that all the mobs in this 200+ mob area are composed of essentially random spawns of groups, a few mobs don't determine the overall difficulty. It only takes one unlucky spawn of Witches and Chaplains to effectively end the entire vanquish if you can't kill anything.
Seriously, you claim an area to be "borderline easier without Afflicted" to vanquish after you only kill a few mobs, and then ask for a reason to do the vanquish at all.
Seriously, you claim an area to be "borderline easier without Afflicted" to vanquish after you only kill a few mobs, and then ask for a reason to do the vanquish at all.
Gli
I'm quite astounded at Jeydra's "mobs tend to have only one healer".
The mobs don't appear balanced across professions and builds like the WiK mobs seem to be. Some groups come at you with overwhelming offense, some are practically unkillable in normal engagements because of the insane amount of protection and healing. I've seen groups with 4 healers/protectors, groups with 4 tricksters, and most funny of all, groups with multiple heal party spammers. It's luck of the draw.
While scouting the place to get a handle of how the groups are composed, I've been able to practically kill anything I've come across by cheap aggro tactics, pulling mobs beyond their reach and cutting off individuals. It would take an insane amount of time to do that until the entire place has been vanquished though, because the area is a giant maze of walls and hills, making that kind of pulling time consuming and annoying.
The mobs don't appear balanced across professions and builds like the WiK mobs seem to be. Some groups come at you with overwhelming offense, some are practically unkillable in normal engagements because of the insane amount of protection and healing. I've seen groups with 4 healers/protectors, groups with 4 tricksters, and most funny of all, groups with multiple heal party spammers. It's luck of the draw.
While scouting the place to get a handle of how the groups are composed, I've been able to practically kill anything I've come across by cheap aggro tactics, pulling mobs beyond their reach and cutting off individuals. It would take an insane amount of time to do that until the entire place has been vanquished though, because the area is a giant maze of walls and hills, making that kind of pulling time consuming and annoying.
Brega
It was known well in advance of the WoC update, that its content would affect permenant changes to various zones around Cantha. It really seems that ppl working on Vanquishing/Cartographer titles were, extremely foolish to start new content w/o first making sure how or if it would effect them.
It is a long known fact, that having certain quests active/completed can make vanquishes harder or easier. Everyone crying about how hard the spawns are, could have saved all their heart ache if they had bothered to check the quest locations of the WoC content, before they started it.
It is a long known fact, that having certain quests active/completed can make vanquishes harder or easier. Everyone crying about how hard the spawns are, could have saved all their heart ache if they had bothered to check the quest locations of the WoC content, before they started it.
OChunx
That's very true Brega, but it has also been known for a long time that the spawns reset after you complete the quest, just like how there's no more peacekeepers in Kryta after WiK (unless you have a bounty). This time however, on the support forums, Anet has stated that they have no intention of reversing the spawns even AFTER the completion of WoC.
Although I may be wrong since I was gone from GW for the couple months leading up to WoC, but I'm pretty sure if Anet didn't post all the info about WoC (what mobs and maps were to be affected) before the content was released. Just as Gli said, harder was to be expected, but not borderline impossible.
I just think people need to actually go and try to vanquish the area before coming and blaming the problem on hindsight issues and lack of skill.
Link of Anet's statement: https://forum.guildwars.com/forum/fo...age/1#post4115
Although I may be wrong since I was gone from GW for the couple months leading up to WoC, but I'm pretty sure if Anet didn't post all the info about WoC (what mobs and maps were to be affected) before the content was released. Just as Gli said, harder was to be expected, but not borderline impossible.
I just think people need to actually go and try to vanquish the area before coming and blaming the problem on hindsight issues and lack of skill.
Link of Anet's statement: https://forum.guildwars.com/forum/fo...age/1#post4115
Jeydra
Another way to get me to do the vanquish is to provoke me in some way.
You shall have your screenshot in 18 hours. I'm going to ask you this though. If I do upload the screenshot, what will you do / say?
PS: Note I said "tend" to have one healer. So much for qualifying words ...
You shall have your screenshot in 18 hours. I'm going to ask you this though. If I do upload the screenshot, what will you do / say?
PS: Note I said "tend" to have one healer. So much for qualifying words ...
Gli
If you do the vanquish, I'll say you wasted a lot of time doing something mindnumbingly dreary.
Jeydra
Then why should I even bother?
Gli
I don't know. I don't need proof that it can be done, because it obviously can. Even the groups most incompatible with someone's particular party setup can be taken down with silly aggro overextension tricks. (If the party setup is decent enough.) I just wanted to draw attention to the unreasonable difficulty of the vanquish when I posted this thread. It stands out like a sore thumb compared to every other vanquish in the game.
Not saying this kind of content has no place in the game, but it should be labeled as 'elite' and have proper rewards. It should not be a silly and annoying roadblock for people going for their vanquish titles.
Not saying this kind of content has no place in the game, but it should be labeled as 'elite' and have proper rewards. It should not be a silly and annoying roadblock for people going for their vanquish titles.
OChunx
I'm gonna say you are incredible Jeydra. Looking at your other end game PvE guide, I'm already sure that you are a very skilled player indeed.
As to why should you bother, I ask why are you bothering to post in this thread at all? My only qualm is that you are arguing for something that you have little to no experience of, and subsequently, very little credibility in. With your refusal to even learn about the subject you are posting about, I don't get why you're posting. If the vanquish is as easy as you say, then it shouldn't even be a "bother".
I'm 100% sure that someone out there has vanquished Minister Cho's estate post WoC, its just that the practicality of it is insane. Consumables, Powerstones of Courage, and maybe even summoning stones seem like a MUST, and even then success seems unlikely. The caliber of skill that this vanquish requires is the unreasonableness that Gli and the fact that it takes a super pro person in order to complete a task so usually simple doesn't help the fact that the VQ is seriously difficult.
As to why should you bother, I ask why are you bothering to post in this thread at all? My only qualm is that you are arguing for something that you have little to no experience of, and subsequently, very little credibility in. With your refusal to even learn about the subject you are posting about, I don't get why you're posting. If the vanquish is as easy as you say, then it shouldn't even be a "bother".
I'm 100% sure that someone out there has vanquished Minister Cho's estate post WoC, its just that the practicality of it is insane. Consumables, Powerstones of Courage, and maybe even summoning stones seem like a MUST, and even then success seems unlikely. The caliber of skill that this vanquish requires is the unreasonableness that Gli and the fact that it takes a super pro person in order to complete a task so usually simple doesn't help the fact that the VQ is seriously difficult.
The Drunkard
Decided to try the vanq with VoR instead of Pinstability, worked well until I DPed from 3 groups that I couldn't split (Yes, these groups all immediately aggroed. No, I could not spiritshit and focus them down while running away) .
Again, something like a HB+MoP spike with splinter support might be able to breeze through, but with heroes you may want to pop cons.
Basically all my pulls revolved around one technique- split up the spirits and let the minions grab agro. Clean up melee with VoR and PI, then focus on the casters.
Again, something like a HB+MoP spike with splinter support might be able to breeze through, but with heroes you may want to pop cons.
Basically all my pulls revolved around one technique- split up the spirits and let the minions grab agro. Clean up melee with VoR and PI, then focus on the casters.
Jeydra
Quote:
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Originally Posted by OChunx
As to why should you bother, I ask why are you bothering to post in this thread at all? My only qualm is that you are arguing for something that you have little to no experience of, and subsequently, very little credibility in. With your refusal to even learn about the subject you are posting about, I don't get why you're posting. If the vanquish is as easy as you say, then it shouldn't even be a "bother".
I'm 100% sure that someone out there has vanquished Minister Cho's estate post WoC, its just that the practicality of it is insane. Consumables, Powerstones of Courage, and maybe even summoning stones seem like a MUST, and even then success seems unlikely. The caliber of skill that this vanquish requires is the unreasonableness that Gli and the fact that it takes a super pro person in order to complete a task so usually simple doesn't help the fact that the VQ is seriously difficult. |
No, you do not need consumables, DP removals, summoning stones, etc to clear the area. You do need a fair amount of skill, yes, but I do not think the area is difficult enough that only a "super pro person" can do it - the toughest area to 7H is UW HM, 7H without cons, and only the best players succeed there.
I have no firm opinion on the idea that this vanquish is "unreasonably hard", because that is necessarily a subjective opinion. I'll point out though that saying things like "I can't do this vanquish when my friend and I are both Rangers" is flawed. Raisu HM is arguably "unreasonably hard" with 8 Rangers too, but the mission as a whole is hardly difficult.
Do you still want a screenshot of the area vanquished?
Attiq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
Tips for you:
1. Pay close attention to aggro. The moment you aggro too many mobs, scram. 2. Use spirits. The vanquish can be done with one Ritualist hero, but there's little reason not to use two. Set up spirit walls before aggroing any mob, and Longbow pull them. 3. Leave the healing to heroes. Both you and your Monk friend should play for damage. Some emergency healing isn't a bad idea, but the primary aim should be damage. Bring ; the mobs tend to have only one healer and that's easily spiked out. Once the healer dies the mob is a lot easier to kill. Frozen Soil is not necessary. |
fires element
YMLAD = you move like a dwarf
EBVAS = ebon vanguard assassin support
EBVAS = ebon vanguard assassin support
Attiq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by fires element
YMLAD = you move like a dwarf
EBVAS = ebon vanguard assassin support |
Jeydra
Dealing with:
Minions - they cannot create minions unless people die, so Longbow pull the minions and kill them. Once you gain in experience you can try fighting them head on, pulling back once you start taking too much damage (that's why you have spirits / minions of your own - they can take damage for you and give you room to run).
Spirits - they're immobile. Execute a pull and they'll just stand there doing nothing.
Prots - one copy of Rend Enchantments somewhere in the team is very helpful; without it you can still wear the monsters down.
Elementalists - as always, flag heroes apart before engaging.
You need Assassin's Promise (that's an Assassin Deadly Arts elite) for YMLAD and EBVAS to work well, just saying.
Minions - they cannot create minions unless people die, so Longbow pull the minions and kill them. Once you gain in experience you can try fighting them head on, pulling back once you start taking too much damage (that's why you have spirits / minions of your own - they can take damage for you and give you room to run).
Spirits - they're immobile. Execute a pull and they'll just stand there doing nothing.
Prots - one copy of Rend Enchantments somewhere in the team is very helpful; without it you can still wear the monsters down.
Elementalists - as always, flag heroes apart before engaging.
You need Assassin's Promise (that's an Assassin Deadly Arts elite) for YMLAD and EBVAS to work well, just saying.
Attiq
Unfortunately Scavenger Soul Binders have Aura of the Lich so no bodies required and their skills recharge faster than ours and for some weird reason they attack any of the capturable pets around and make minions out of those.... and if I dont get those in the first group I always get them in the second......
Arrrg I guess I'm out two titles cause I cannot manage to get past the second group........
It could all be luck as well you may get really good easy to kill spawns and I might get crappy impossible to kill spawns..... its my kind of luck in this game....
Arrrg I guess I'm out two titles cause I cannot manage to get past the second group........
It could all be luck as well you may get really good easy to kill spawns and I might get crappy impossible to kill spawns..... its my kind of luck in this game....
Jeydra
AotL 45s recharge animates one minion, nothing you shouldn't be able to handle. Tameable pets don't respawn, too. You CAN handle the minion masters, you just have to do pulls and take out the minions.
Gli
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Attiq
It could all be luck as well you may get really good easy to kill spawns and I might get crappy impossible to kill spawns..... its my kind of luck in this game....
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Attiq
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
With the amount of enemies you need to take down, you're pretty sure to get some tough groups. You really need to be able to take anything they can throw at you to complete the area.
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Gli
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Attiq
I wasn't meaning Jeydra wouldnt get hard groups I mean I generally get worse groupings against me than normal people.... you might not believe me but it is true..... i have very bad luck in games.....
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If anything, it seems to me you're the lucky one if you run into a group you can't kill very early. It would be a much harder pill to swallow if you run into something you can't kill when you're 400 kills into the vanquish.
Basically, you should work to be in a position where luck doesn't matter.
Attiq
Hmmmm never thought of myself as being lucky to not get far in a Vanq lol probably a good statement...... Fact remains for me tho I have not made it past the 2nd group at all...... And I really have tried..... Pulling, Blocking, Grouping, Solo with Heroes, Monk and me and heroes..... Skill changes, armor changes, attacking style changes..... bout the only thing I haven't tried is getting the Monk to take agro.... lol that would be funny if it worked....
jazilla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
/ambivalent
I found vanquishing Minister Cho's Estate (at least, the first few mobs; I didn't go for the full VQ) to be about as difficult as the original mission itself - in fact, borderline easier without Afflicted explosions to decimate minions. Once I identified which monsters were the healers / MMs / hard res, everything just fell into place. I did use aggro techniques as a matter of course, but then aggro techniques are already required in so many areas so ... That said, I'm much more skilled than most people, so my experience may be extremely polarized. |
I agree with the OP. The only harder VQ in my opinion would be to to a VQ while having "The Last Day Dawns" quest active in the Ascalon region. I can't remember exactly the map it's in, but doing that is brutal as well.
Jeydra
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
/ambivalent
I found vanquishing Minister Cho's Estate (at least, the first few mobs; I didn't go for the full VQ) to be about as difficult as the original mission itself - in fact, borderline easier without Afflicted explosions to decimate minions. Once I identified which monsters were the healers / MMs / hard res, everything just fell into place. I did use aggro techniques as a matter of course, but then aggro techniques are already required in so many areas so ... That said, I'm much more skilled than most people, so my experience may be extremely polarized. |
Attiq, I can show you how to get past the first few mobs. Message me in-game.
Jeydra
Near the end of the run Jurah got himself heavily DP'ed (I wasn't really paying attention zzz), Xandra would DPS him and then Jurah would die again, forcing me to kill myself. Was pretty frustrating, but I blame myself.
I change my mind on this vanquish though. It's not too difficult, but it's way too goddamn long. 400 monsters makes it one of the biggest around, yet these aren't monsters you can just cspace through. I would support a cut to ~200 monsters.
Swingline
Why are you still here Jeydra? Great, /clap you can do it, but the fact remains a lot of people can't do it and many of the people who have done it still think its too difficult for a vanquish including myself. All people want is to bring the mobs down to 4 which is perfectly reasonable given the fact it is a 4 man area, you just seem so adamant about keeping it the way it is. You have claimed the reason you don't want it to be changed is you want harder content but lets get serious here you're not going to do this vanquish over and over like a DoA nerd. This just seems like an attempt to put people, with less skill than you, down and stroke your own e-peen.
Fluim
in Zen Daijun are smaller groups, although 6 people are allowed there.
Jan Breydel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
As it stands, we were too late, we should've done so before doing any WoC quests it seems. If the spawns of Cho's place don't change, we'll get that vanquish done eventually, but each of us will have to do it alone with a completely optimized set of 3 heroes. This kind of nonsense has us not wanting to play again for the moment though, which can't be the point of new content.
Before posting derogatory responses to this, please take a moment and actually have a look at the MCE explorable on HM with scavenger spawns. And try to vanquish it with a party of 2 human rangers, one of whom isn't exactly an 'elite' player, no cons, and any 2 heroes you like. |
Fact remains that this is a vanquish you can't just do with a random composition of professions.
OChunx
I think we can ALL safely say at this point that this area needs to be changed in one way or another. 
Man W/ Club
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
In which case I more or less destroyed your argument, because I showed (well, without screenshots anyway) that the VQ can be done using two Ranger heroes, and your main problem with it was that you can't do it with two player Rangers (shows just how narrow your vision of Guild Wars is btw).
You could say the area is "unreasonably difficult to vanquish", but if we accept that we'd also have to say that "UW is unreasonably difficult to do 7H" or maybe "Gates of Morah is unreasonably difficult to do with 8 Ranger parties" and after nerfing everything we'll end up with "ANet is retarded, they made everything too easy". You basically fall directly into the description I made earlier. You are bad at this game, yet instead of getting better you are choosing to complain. Well, ANet made this game with people like you in mind. Use cons pcons summoning stones DP removal and don't even think about complaining that you have to use them, because you're already choosing not to get better. Regards. |
2 rangers and VQ cho's estate? lol.
Xenomortis
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Man W/ Club
2 rangers and VQ cho's estate? lol.
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Man W/ Club
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Xenomortis
Two Rangers and two spirit spammers? I don't see why not.
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anyways, the point that of this thread was not to prove this is an impossible vanquish, it's just a huge pain in the ass.
sure zombie vanquishes aren't dynamic, but is clearing a 400 monster zone with 4 people having to pull every single mob and hide behind minions fun to the average gamer?
Xenomortis
I was assuming player rangers because otherwise, what's the point?
I see no reason as to why succeeding with two hero rangers isn't possible though, at least for some of the professions and I would say the Elementalist (Jeydra) is one of them.
I see no reason as to why succeeding with two hero rangers isn't possible though, at least for some of the professions and I would say the Elementalist (Jeydra) is one of them.
Jeydra
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Man W/ Club
We will believe you when you prove it, until then your full of crap.
2 rangers and VQ cho's estate? lol. |
As for having to use optimized builds, I wonder how much of the game can really be done with random professions. Can Ascalon be vanquished with 2 Warriors 1 Dervish 1 Assassin? Can Varesh be killed with 1 Derv 1 Sin 3 Rangers 2 Paragons + Morgahn? And while we're raging against having to use optimized builds, why stop there - if we accept "areas need to be doable with random professions" as a criterion for difficulty, why shouldn't it be random skills or random attributes?
This vanquish is hard, but it is also doable before consumable / summoning stone / DP removal support, and there is more leeway with builds than some seem to think. Therefore I'll hold to my viewpoint: it's too long, but not too hard.
Jette Antral
...1904x1002? What the hell kind of monitor are you using?
AngelWJedi
/sign
change the vanq and the quest please >> both are really hard and i tried all sorts of builds.with heros with humans and i cant seem to get it so ill be forever 32/33 ><
change the vanq and the quest please >> both are really hard and i tried all sorts of builds.with heros with humans and i cant seem to get it so ill be forever 32/33 ><