Casual Player build templates?

I'm looking for basic build templates for a casual non-hardcore player, PVE only. I just need a guideline on what to bring with me when I play mostly solo with Warrior (or general melee) elementalist (or general caster) ranger, ritualist, and paragon... or if there is a general template that works for all classes.

What I'm looking for is something like this:

SK1 - IAS if you have it X if you don't
SK2 - Attack skill
SK3 - Attack skill
SK4 - Adrenaline attack skill
SK5 - damage mitigation (X is usually better than Y, but bring Z if you have it)
SK6 - Healing skill
SK7 - Utility skill (some examples of helpful utility skills)
SK8 - Utility skill (some examples of helpful utility skills)

There are lots of build threads and while I've run across a few that cater to players who do not have every elite in the game and have not opened up all the expansions, I have only found a few basic guidelines (mostly for melee) on what "types" of skills to bring instead of what exact skills to bring.

So I'm trying to improve my game a bit with some helpful guidelines. Right now my warrior for example has:

SK1 - Cyclone Axe
SK2 - Swift Chop
SK3 - Keen Chop
SK4 - Dismember
SK5 - Endure Pain
Sk6 - Defy Pain (My only Elite skill)
SK7 - Troll Ungent
SK8 - Sprint

I think I'm doing ok, but is that a good variety of skills? What about for my other characters?

The template is/should be specific to each class. Check the stickies in each of the profession specific subforums in The Campfire and I'm sure you'll find what you seek.

Warrior example taken from the warrior sticky.

Quote: Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Mine's almost identical to the one from the warriors sticky, though a little more specific.

Attack Skill
Attack Skill
Attack Skill
Attack Skill
Flail/Frenzy (my increased attack speed skill)
Enraging Charge/Rush (my cancel stance and increased movement speed skill)
For Great Justice
Enduring Harmony/Another utility skill if the build calls for one.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kaiden So I'm trying to improve my game a bit with some helpful guidelines. Right now my warrior for example has:

SK1 - Cyclone Axe
SK2 - Swift Chop
SK3 - Keen Chop
SK4 - Dismember
SK5 - Endure Pain
Sk6 - Defy Pain (My only Elite skill)
SK7 - Troll Ungent
SK8 - Sprint Well, my template has been quoted already so there's no point doing that again, so I'll critique your current build instead.

Dismember is a good skill. Cyclone Axe is decent. The rest is trash, unfortunately. I understand that you've only got Prophecies skills now, but there are core things you aren't understanding.

-Warriors are pure damage machines. It's not like other games where you should be focused on tanking. Remember, if you do your job (kill things) and let the monk do his job (keep you alive long enough for you to do your job) then everything should work out nicely.
-You should have one skill for keeping yourself alive, but only if you really really need it. Troll Unguent is ok, but there are better things to do with the attribute points and the casting time really hurts (time spent activating heals is time spent not hitting things). Endure Pain is crap. It doesn't heal you, it just increases your max health, which means you'll be screwed when it runs out. Defy Pain probably justifies itself if you haven't got any better elite skills yet.
-You need an IAS. NEED IT. It's the single most important skill on your bar. A build without an IAS is a bad build.
-Neither Swift Chop nor Keen Chop deal enough damage to justify being used.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kaiden I'm looking for basic build templates for a casual non-hardcore player, PVE only. I just need a guideline on what to bring with me when I play mostly solo with Warrior (or general melee) elementalist (or general caster) ranger, ritualist, and paragon... or if there is a general template that works for all classes.

What I'm looking for is something like this:

SK1 - IAS if you have it X if you don't
SK2 - Attack skill
SK3 - Attack skill
SK4 - Adrenaline attack skill
SK5 - damage mitigation (X is usually better than Y, but bring Z if you have it)
SK6 - Healing skill
SK7 - Utility skill (some examples of helpful utility skills)
SK8 - Utility skill (some examples of helpful utility skills) GW generally does not work like that.

The two largest flaws in your thinking are:

1. Builds work at a "functionality" level, not a skill level. The goal for your attack skills is to provide high sustained DPS and/or spike; not that you need to have X attack skills on the bar. The goal for your energy management is to have enough energy to fuel your other energy-using skills; not that you should have X e-management skills on the bar. And so on. The correct questions to be asking are "What functionalities do I want this build to provide for the team?" and "What is the best way to provide those functionalities using only 8 skills and 200 attributes?" Sometimes those questions can be reduced to a simple general rule (example: Every warrior build should have Frenzy or Flail because every warrior build should seek to provide high DPS, and IAS is an incomparably good source of added DPS for the cost of one skillslot, and Frenzy and Flail are the best two skills that provide IAS.), but often no such generalization is possible.

(To give you a hint on the first question: At least when it comes to warriors, the answer to "What functionalities do I want this build to provide for the team?" is always: DPS, more DPS, maybe spike, mitigation (always via SY!), maybe disruption (via knockdown).)

2. A "skill by skill" approach to bar building overlooks synergy. Most of the "good skills" in GW are only good in combination with certain other skills. Taken alone, they are mediocre or even bad. Sometimes you can treat a group of synergistic skills as an indivisible "block" (example: Power Attack and Warrior's Endurance go so well together that you should never use one without the other.), but often the synergy effects are smaller and only serve as an additional plus factor to be considered when weighing multiple choices (example: Warrior's Endurance makes all energy-based attacks more somewhat appealing, but not so much so that you could automatically choose them over adrenaline attacks without comparing +dmg, cycle time, secondary effect, and so on.).

If you *really* want a template build, start with this:
1. Save Yourselves!
2. Whirlwind Attack
3. Frenzy or Flail
4. - 8. stuff to do a, b, and c
a. DPS
b. gain adrenaline quickly enough to achieve good uptime ratio with SY!
c. whatever utility is necessary and proper for accomplishing a and b.

Other classes are much less reducible.

Thank you all for your replies, even though I've had GW for several years, I haven't even finished prophecies yet (stuck on the Ice cavern and unable to continue). My Warrior is my only level 20, although I do have level 19 Ritualist who hasn't made it to Kanneig Center yet.

In other words, I'm still a newb, broke, elite equipment less, and still learning how to play.

The Warrior build template is really the only one I've found that has a template like that, and I think Chthon answered why.

So I guess it all depends on what "role" I want to fill in the groups whether they be hero groups, henchmen groups of pugs?

Is there a specific type of skill like IAS that applies for other classes? A don't leave home without it ability?

With a Monk, it would probably be hex removal, healing or mitigating would be the primary functionality of the class, but hex removal is something not to leave out.

@Marty - ok regarding my Warrior build, I have Frenzy so I can use that, I haven't been because of the downside, but I can. I think I have Save Yourselves, so I can replace Troll Ungent with that.

Quote: -Neither Swift Chop nor Keen Chop deal enough damage to justify being used. I'm a little short on Axe skills so the 4 on my bar IMO are the best ones I have. I started using Keen chop because I was being blocked a lot so it made sense.

Hi Kaiden - Marty and Cthon are experts in the field, so basically 'what they say', but as a fairly new player to GW (started about a year ago) there are a few things I can add as I'm just about getting my warrior character to PvE end-game level now, and have learnt a lot recently.

Watch out for Defy Pain and similar defensive skills on a warrior build - if you are not careful they can become a security blanket that can hold up your development in the game for months - I speak from personal experience, I'm afraid to say. Once you ditch them and try some pure DPS builds you quickly start to realise what you have been missing - the best defence is to kill the bad guys really quickly. The one exception to this is the skill 'Save Yourselves' which is so powerful that it would be silly not to take it, at least for anything in hard mode.

If you have not done so already, look at your team build as well - whether that means sorting out your heroes or your friends. If you have a properly balanced and equipped team, then you can concentrate on the warrior stuff and they'll keep you alive. Also remember that as a warrior, sometimes your job is to go in and die for the team, it's not the end of the world, and preventing yourself from ever dying is a) likely to prove counter-productive and b) not worth losing a damage skill for.

Finally, one interesting twist on the build mentioned above is the Sunspear skill Necrosis (possibly for later in your case, if you're not yet at Nightfall). This actually works very well with a warrior build as an additional attack skill, especially if you play with one of the casterway team builds such as discord or sabway, where conditions are being spammed around. It does 80-90 damage for only 5 energy and the best thing is that it is a ranged attack so for running enemies and those behind walls, you can now join in with your team in tackling them.

My current build, which is the most effective I have found so far for general use, but I admit is not much different to the standard ones on PVX:

Warrior/Necro - attributes in Axe-Mastery and Strength only...
<Save Yourselves>
<Enraged Charge> or <Lion's Comfort> if you really need a self-heal
<Warrior's Endurance>
<Flail>
<Dismember>
<Power Attack>
<Cyclone Attack>
<Necrosis> - or you could put <Whirlwind Attack>, <You Move Like A Dwarf>, or other PvE skill here.

Thanks for the info Godrik,

Also I checked my skills and I do NOT have Save Yourselves yet. I also checked the wiki for elites and I'm not to where Warrior's Endurance is yet.

I did take a trip to Cantha though and got a few better (I think) Axe attacks. They at least do more damage.

While I meant for this to be a thread about my characters in general, it's really turning into a Warrior thread and should probably be moved there. But here is my bar now:

Cyclone Axe
Furious Axe
Executioner's Strike
Dismember
Defy Pain
Signet of Strength
Tiger Stance (IAS with no downside? Or is there one?)
Sprint - because I move like a dwarf.

Better I hope. I will replace Defy Pain with Warriors Endurance when I get to it, but it really did come in handy against the Murrssat in the Ice cave... Those guys HURT. It kept me alive long enough for my monks to get a handle on it. But to be honest that is the only time I used it in the whole map.

Quote: Originally Posted by Godrik Gandolfi

The one exception to this is the skill 'Save Yourselves' which is so powerful that it would be silly not to take it, at least for anything in hard mode. Not necessarily true. I find that using SY often enough for it to be a useful addition on my skillbar eats up lots of adrenaline that could be spent on attack skills. It is very powerful, but one must keep in mind that using SY will lower dps, and will do so significantly the longer a fight lasts. It is hardly necessary anyway, considering the OP passive protection that exists nowadays in the form of minion walls and additional spirit bodies.

I'm probably one of the only ones who like the IAS skill 'burst of agression', which I find pretty good if you are observant on the timing of it's expiration. The 'Build and release' aspect of the skill makes it enjoyable in trying to use effectively. No 2x damage take or movement speed reduced side-effect is nice.

Quote: Originally Posted by Godrik Gandolfi Watch out for Defy Pain and similar defensive skills on a warrior build - if you are not careful they can become a security blanket that can hold up your development in the game for months - I speak from personal experience, I'm afraid to say. Once you ditch them and try some pure DPS builds you quickly start to realise what you have been missing - the best defence is to kill the bad guys really quickly. The one exception to this is the skill 'Save Yourselves' which is so powerful that it would be silly not to take it, at least for anything in hard mode. Agreed. Remember, you can't just add more defense to a build. It's adding defense at the cost of offense. There is a point at which you'll take less damage by killing more quickly than by increasing defense.

Quote: Originally Posted by Godrik Gandolfi Finally, one interesting twist on the build mentioned above is the Sunspear skill Necrosis (possibly for later in your case, if you're not yet at Nightfall). This actually works very well with a warrior build as an additional attack skill, especially if you play with one of the casterway team builds such as discord or sabway, where conditions are being spammed around. It does 80-90 damage for only 5 energy and the best thing is that it is a ranged attack so for running enemies and those behind walls, you can now join in with your team in tackling them. Bad advice. Assuming R10 Sunspear, you're getting 90 damage every 1.75 seconds (don't forget the aftercast). During this time you could have hit twice (which should end up being more than 90 damage). Also, spells require you to stop moving throughout the entire cast+aftercast, whereas attack skills can be used against a moving target. Losing a PvE skill slot hurts too. There are much better things to use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiden Cyclone Axe Furious Axe Executioner's Strike Dismember Defy Pain Signet of Strength Tiger Stance (IAS with no downside? Or is there one?) Sprint - because I move like a dwarf. Better than before, but there are still improvements to be made: Signet of Strength: Meh. The recharge is massive, and when you factor it in the damage increase overall isn't that high. Perhaps try dropping Furious Axe or Cyclone Axe and SoS for "For Great Justice" and another adrenaline attack. Tiger Stance: Is a poor IAS. Uptime is horrible (less than half the time) AND it ends when you fail to hit, which is a massive problem. Drop Tiger Stance and Sprint for Frenzy and Rush (try to get Flail as soon as you can though). Tiger Stance isn't really worth using. Quote: Originally Posted by Kaiden Better I hope. I will replace Defy Pain with Warriors Endurance when I get to it, but it really did come in handy against the Murrssat in the Ice cave... Those guys HURT. It kept me alive long enough for my monks to get a handle on it. But to be honest that is the only time I used it in the whole map. You're not meant to fight any mursaat in the Ice Cave (assuming you're talking about the Ice Caves of Sorrow mission). In the next mission (Iron Mines of Moladune) you'll complete an objective which results in your armor being infused, which makes the mursaat's special attack (Spectral Agony) much less powerful.

Thanks Marty, I made the appropriate changes.

I swapped out cyclone axe and Signet of Strength for "For Great Justice!" and another adrenaline attack. I have Frenzy for my IAS and Balanced Stance for cancel/anti-knockdown. Can't remember the name of the new attack, but it's the one that weakens if they have a deep wound so I follow Dismember with it

I do have another question though, sometimes it's difficult to click on the enemies when they are chasing my casters. I know I can tab/space, but occasionally I get there with no attack spell/skill ready and still have to click to start attacking. I checked "options" but couldn't find an attack key... is there one?

Quote: Originally Posted by Kaiden Thanks Marty, I made the appropriate changes.

I swapped out cyclone axe and Signet of Strength for "For Great Justice!" and another adrenaline attack. I have Frenzy for my IAS and Balanced Stance for cancel/anti-knockdown. Can't remember the name of the new attack, but it's the one that weakens if they have a deep wound so I follow Dismember with it Regarding Axe Twist, you're better off with Penetrating Blow. I'm not sure how much extra damage it'd do, but the weakness provided by AT isn't really worth it (not to mention that you NEED to hit Dismember before AT whereas PB can be used independantly... it's nice that you looked for synergy but it's not worth it in this case (consider Dismember getting blocked - AT is essentially an empty skill slot until you recharge it)). Generally speaking, if I want weakness, I'd put Enfeebling Blood on a Necro hero or some other midline character, but that's getting a bit off topic.

Regarding Balanced Stance, I think you missed the point somewhat. The point of a cancel stance is to have something on hand to quickly overwrite your IAS (you can only have one stance active at a time) in the case that the downside (double damage in the case of Frenzy) is really about to screw you over (for example, you're attracting too much attention or about to get nuked heavily). BS is on a 30 second recharge... one of the reasons why people recommend Rush is that it's 4 adrenaline, which means it'll always be available except for the few seconds right after you use it (in which case you don't need to use it anyway). The other reasons are that the speed boost is a nice thing to have for all melee professions and that it doesn't cost energy (refreshing Frenzy every 8 seconds pretty much negates your natural regeneration). I agree that getting knocked down is annoying but there are few places where an anti-kd skill is justified.

I re-adjusted again Thanks for your continued feedback Marty And your patience, you would think I'd know how to play this game by now even if I don't play it regularly.

So I am now using Penatrating Blow and dropped Axe Twist.

On the cancel stance I just didn't understand how often you might need to cancel it. I don't have Rush, but I swapped out Defensive Stance

Quote: Either that or your space bar is broken (which wouldn't make much sense anyway given you've responded). Now I feel kind of stupid, being the top of the list in options, I completely missed it. I can't always see what my character is doing because NPCs and bushes and rocks get in the way and I mistakenly thought [space] was follow... On the same note I also thought tab was target closest... I might just be a lost cause