EotN, and Winds of Change
Cryshal
These are harder quests and I can't do the final Vanguard and Dwarf quests. I tried the Winds of Change and it too was too hard. The only way to get through the hordes of enemies is to kill a couple, respawn, kill a couple, repeat until they are dead. Then you are at -60% and expected to kill the final boss.
Frankly, I'm very disappointed. I know a lot of players do like the harder quests and do manage to find ways to do them. I find it tedious. I do like Guild Wars, and still continue to adventure, but I would like to be a better player. I have read guides, I've gone through all the tips, changing heroes, changing skills, getting more runes, etc. I see players saying you need 600 skill points for your heroes, but I have no idea how they do that.
I started Winds of Change with my Ritualist, bad move. I can't use the spirits because the enemies steal them. It's just all discouraging.
Frankly, I'm very disappointed. I know a lot of players do like the harder quests and do manage to find ways to do them. I find it tedious. I do like Guild Wars, and still continue to adventure, but I would like to be a better player. I have read guides, I've gone through all the tips, changing heroes, changing skills, getting more runes, etc. I see players saying you need 600 skill points for your heroes, but I have no idea how they do that.
I started Winds of Change with my Ritualist, bad move. I can't use the spirits because the enemies steal them. It's just all discouraging.
Elfblade
are you using heroes? if so maybe it helps if you post your builds? are you using correct tactics like pulling and balling so that you only fight one group at the time. Some quests in WOC can be hard if you do not run a decent build on you and your heroes. You have 200 skill points per hero and you can use 7 heroes ( 600 is impossible). You dont need the best runes to complete the content.
For now post your team build and maybe explain the tactics you use.
For now post your team build and maybe explain the tactics you use.
Arduin
As already been explained to you, the 600 people are talking about is 600 hp, not armor or skill points:
That said, you already have a thread on the final EotN quests, have you already taken a look at the suggestions posted there?
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People say to have heroes with 600armor. How do you get that high? If I have to pay, I can't afford it.
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Iuris
Ayyyy, don't just give up! Kryta and Cantha need you! It is true, however, that the WiK and WoC groups are quite a bit more difficult than the ones you've met up till now. Still, normal mode at least you should be able to do quite well.
I guarantee you that a set of proper builds WILL let your heroes kill all enemies on their own, even with you AFK.
Tell us what heroes and builds you use, so we can see where there's room for improvement.
I guarantee you that a set of proper builds WILL let your heroes kill all enemies on their own, even with you AFK.
Tell us what heroes and builds you use, so we can see where there's room for improvement.
Venganza
If you PM me with your IGN, I would be happy to contact you in-game and lend a hand or provide some advice if you like.
Incidentally I did WoC on my Rt in both normal and hard mode (most HM I did with heroes only) and had little dificulty.
You are correct some of the foes can devastate spirits, however this is not uncommon, the unded in CoF can wipe spirits in seconds. It all comes to being aware of initial enemy spikes and recasting spirits as needed at appropriate distance while properly managing energy.
Don't lose heart, if something is too easy to do where is the challenge?
Incidentally I did WoC on my Rt in both normal and hard mode (most HM I did with heroes only) and had little dificulty.
You are correct some of the foes can devastate spirits, however this is not uncommon, the unded in CoF can wipe spirits in seconds. It all comes to being aware of initial enemy spikes and recasting spirits as needed at appropriate distance while properly managing energy.
Don't lose heart, if something is too easy to do where is the challenge?
Nereyda Shoaal
I'm adding Cantha to that too.
I've been trying to VQ Minister's Cho Estate for over an hour and finally hit Alt+F4 because I couldn't stand it anymore.
To put it in other words... since the WoC and mob update I'm finding it basicaly impossible to VQ this area. I have tried pretty much everything with no effect.
Stuck on 32/33 in Cantha now
I've been trying to VQ Minister's Cho Estate for over an hour and finally hit Alt+F4 because I couldn't stand it anymore.
To put it in other words... since the WoC and mob update I'm finding it basicaly impossible to VQ this area. I have tried pretty much everything with no effect.
Stuck on 32/33 in Cantha now
Zebideedee
Nereyda if WoC is like WiK then if you abandon the WoC quests the mobs in Minister Cho's should return to the normal pre-WoC ones. Then after you vanq. it go get the WoC quest again.
Gli
Unfortunately, it isn't like WiK. After doing the Rescue at Minister Cho's quest, the spawns in that area change and there's currently no way to get back the originals. Even joining up with someone who hasn't started WoC yet doesn't help.
cruzer
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I guarantee you that a set of proper builds WILL let your heroes kill all enemies on their own, even with you AFK.
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3 discord necros
panic mezmer
ineptitude mezmer
SoS Rit
SoGM Rit
I find with this I can do nothing and my heros will kill almost any mob in the game. The only place I have any real trouble is in DOA. My heroes have good runes and weapons but not perfect.
drkn
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Unfortunately, it isn't like WiK. After doing the Rescue at Minister Cho's quest, the spawns in that area change and there's currently no way to get back the originals. Even joining up with someone who hasn't started WoC yet doesn't help.
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WiK and WoC, as the Beyond content, are meant to be harder than the normal campaigns. If you haven't beaten EotN yet, and more so have trouble with it in normal mode, you should reiterate your gameplay and builds, and focus on dealing with the easier things first.
Cryshal
You players amaze me with your abilities. You think it's simple, from what you say, and yet it isn't for me.
Useless to post my heroes or builds since, as I said, I change them out over and over trying to find a good group for a quest. I have my heroes runed as best I can. I have Jora, Koss, Master of Whispers, Vekk, Jehd, Tahlkora, Ogden, MOX, one other Necro, Paragon and two Rangers. My EotN, main character, is Ranger. My Factions character is Ritualist, and my Nightfall character is Paragon.
I have as many skills as I could find. I don't have Pain Inverter, can't get it. I did read my post on EotN and tried the tips from the replies. From what I see with the final quests is that you need to do them enough times to understand what's going on, what you need to do. And for me that means hours. After I've tried three times, I'm too frustrated to continue. The Vanguard isn't hard to get to, but so much going on and I'm lost there. The Dwarf quest has the boss at the end who kills you just by looking at you. You can't use the heroes there. To get the kegs you have to run all the way back to the Dwarves?
Winds of Change. My Ritualist can't use spirits. They are used against me. Or immediately killed. Too many high level enemies swarm me. That I guess is my main complaint about the harder quests. My heroes and I are level 20, and the swarms of enemies are level 28. It doesn't make sense to me.
Thanks to all who have replied. I guess my final answer is just that I'm not going to finish EotN, nor do Winds of Change or War in Kryta. I hope GW2 will be different. I will have a guild, so perhaps together we will be able to do the harder quests, and I assume there will be harder.
I also don't have Discord, can't get it.
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For cruzor: I can guess at panic and ineptitude, but what are SoS and SoGM?
Also, do you use all heroes or mix in mercenaries to get two or three of any one class?

Useless to post my heroes or builds since, as I said, I change them out over and over trying to find a good group for a quest. I have my heroes runed as best I can. I have Jora, Koss, Master of Whispers, Vekk, Jehd, Tahlkora, Ogden, MOX, one other Necro, Paragon and two Rangers. My EotN, main character, is Ranger. My Factions character is Ritualist, and my Nightfall character is Paragon.
I have as many skills as I could find. I don't have Pain Inverter, can't get it. I did read my post on EotN and tried the tips from the replies. From what I see with the final quests is that you need to do them enough times to understand what's going on, what you need to do. And for me that means hours. After I've tried three times, I'm too frustrated to continue. The Vanguard isn't hard to get to, but so much going on and I'm lost there. The Dwarf quest has the boss at the end who kills you just by looking at you. You can't use the heroes there. To get the kegs you have to run all the way back to the Dwarves?
Winds of Change. My Ritualist can't use spirits. They are used against me. Or immediately killed. Too many high level enemies swarm me. That I guess is my main complaint about the harder quests. My heroes and I are level 20, and the swarms of enemies are level 28. It doesn't make sense to me.
Thanks to all who have replied. I guess my final answer is just that I'm not going to finish EotN, nor do Winds of Change or War in Kryta. I hope GW2 will be different. I will have a guild, so perhaps together we will be able to do the harder quests, and I assume there will be harder.
I also don't have Discord, can't get it.
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For cruzor: I can guess at panic and ineptitude, but what are SoS and SoGM?
Also, do you use all heroes or mix in mercenaries to get two or three of any one class?
Elfblade
i would refrain from using discord, as far as i can guess your trouble lies mostly at tactics. if you want i can help you in game. for what i now suggest is to finish EOTN first before you move on to Wik or WoC. (also you can get the xandra(ritualist) and razah(can be changed into any primary proffession) they are not hard to get (at least xandra but razah can be a tad more difficult).
I certainly think it is not impossible for you to finish EOTN and beyond content. You finished nightfall, which certainly is not easy in the realm of torment.
I certainly think it is not impossible for you to finish EOTN and beyond content. You finished nightfall, which certainly is not easy in the realm of torment.
Cryshal
What is strange is I finished Nightfall but none of the Realm of Torment is showing up on my map, beyond Gate of Destruction.
Katastroff
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Winds of Change. My Ritualist can't use spirits. They are used against me. Or immediately killed. Too many high level enemies swarm me. That I guess is my main complaint about the harder quests. My heroes and I are level 20, and the swarms of enemies are level 28. It doesn't make sense to me. |
Spiritleech Aura
I did all those quest as R/Rt running:
3 disco necro (2 are MM) all 3 of them also heal
1 Panic mes
1 Emo prot
1 Ele Order
1 Either a Para (buffer) or Ineptitude mes
The Estate was pretty stiff the first few times, but i did manage it with 2 necros and 1 Mes. ( must admit it added a few points to my sweet tooth title

About being swarmed, Flagging and using a long bow is recommended
Beliarchia Targon
Why can't you get it? Go to Kerrsh in Tarnished Haven, do his quest chain. It's a little time consuming but sooo worth it. I seriously regretted not doing it sooner than I did.
Flameseeker
SoS - Signet of Spirits
SoGM - Signet of ghostly might
I can assure you that you can get legendary guardian/vanquisher or any other PVE title with no hero runed and their crappy starter weapons. Even WiK and WoC are doable,at least in NM, that way.
Since you're a Rit you're the best SoS since you can just heal over and over your spirits with summon spirits. And even if they get destroyed you should be able to replace them timely.
With that build you can use the spirits to bodyblock any melee mobs by building a spirit wall, but also quickly save them from aoe by summoning them.
Discord really is the easiest way to go, just bring some conditions and hexes with yourself and the heroes will do everything for you. WiK and WoC will be more troublesome since they were designed to counter such gimmicks, but they'll still work but a little less effective. (Not bothered with HM WoC but I guess it would be insane with my kind of hero setup)
From my understanding you don't have enough practice in gw play-style.
For general vanquish and missions you can almost overagro the entire map and still not die (save few exceptions).
For WiK, WoC and those exceptions a longbow for pulling the groups away, and sometimes pulling monsters apart from their own groups, are the key to quickly deal with the area.
You should actually start by unlocking several skills and, if you have the money, capture all elites. That way you'll have an easier time modifying your builds for anything that you might need.
And you'll also need some patience. Most of us are giving you wisdom from 6 years of gameplay so you shouldn't waste the advices, but use them to improve yourself.
You can't expect to just breeze through an area or even not having to repeat it a few times. You probably breezed through prophecies campaign (or if you didn't you'll probably will most of it), but a few years back we had to repeat THK or Hell's Precipice enough times to make us sick of the game. Not mentioning the insane hours of waiting for monks.
Hope you really have the patience for my wall of text, but as you improve you'll notice that what you now find insane will soon just be easy enough to do it without actually put much effort.
SoGM - Signet of ghostly might
I can assure you that you can get legendary guardian/vanquisher or any other PVE title with no hero runed and their crappy starter weapons. Even WiK and WoC are doable,at least in NM, that way.
Since you're a Rit you're the best SoS since you can just heal over and over your spirits with summon spirits. And even if they get destroyed you should be able to replace them timely.
With that build you can use the spirits to bodyblock any melee mobs by building a spirit wall, but also quickly save them from aoe by summoning them.
Discord really is the easiest way to go, just bring some conditions and hexes with yourself and the heroes will do everything for you. WiK and WoC will be more troublesome since they were designed to counter such gimmicks, but they'll still work but a little less effective. (Not bothered with HM WoC but I guess it would be insane with my kind of hero setup)
From my understanding you don't have enough practice in gw play-style.
For general vanquish and missions you can almost overagro the entire map and still not die (save few exceptions).
For WiK, WoC and those exceptions a longbow for pulling the groups away, and sometimes pulling monsters apart from their own groups, are the key to quickly deal with the area.
You should actually start by unlocking several skills and, if you have the money, capture all elites. That way you'll have an easier time modifying your builds for anything that you might need.
And you'll also need some patience. Most of us are giving you wisdom from 6 years of gameplay so you shouldn't waste the advices, but use them to improve yourself.
You can't expect to just breeze through an area or even not having to repeat it a few times. You probably breezed through prophecies campaign (or if you didn't you'll probably will most of it), but a few years back we had to repeat THK or Hell's Precipice enough times to make us sick of the game. Not mentioning the insane hours of waiting for monks.
Hope you really have the patience for my wall of text, but as you improve you'll notice that what you now find insane will soon just be easy enough to do it without actually put much effort.
Elfblade
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Since you're a Rit you're the best SoS since you can just heal over and over your spirits with summon spirits. And even if they get destroyed you should be able to replace them timely.
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for a new player i dont think discord is the way to go as it learns you absolutely nothing about how to play the game its just c-spacing. I am not saying he should go micro heavy but a build like discord is of no value to him.
note: i think he got that people can beat the game with empty skill bars, i dont think it is needed to emphasize on what is possible but rather give suggestions.
Spiritz
Cryshal - The thing about gw is that its level of difficulty affects ppl`s gameplay and some its easy and some its hard.No one is calling you a bad player - remember the saying your as strong as your weakest link.
You can be a damn gd player but if your heros are not setup correctly with either weapons/runes/skill bars then that will really affect you.
Quite a lot of us have probably done all campaigns and eotn quite a few times ( only done prophs once myself as i prefer the other campaigns/eotn.
Dont sit back and think "arghh this is impossible" - my sin was a prime example , she had factionss done but i went kurz route and ignored the lux area.Why did i do that ? - because i had it in my head that gayla hatchery was going to be a pain to do and so i left it for almost a yr.When i did gayla with a guildie - it wasnt as bad as what i thought and since then ive done it on multiple chrs.
Just keep at it - check on guru / gwpvx.com for builds , tips etc , infact if you get stuck then make a new post in right section with your hero builds listed and the mission/quest your having probs with as that way we can see what builds are used and offer advice
You can be a damn gd player but if your heros are not setup correctly with either weapons/runes/skill bars then that will really affect you.
Quite a lot of us have probably done all campaigns and eotn quite a few times ( only done prophs once myself as i prefer the other campaigns/eotn.
Dont sit back and think "arghh this is impossible" - my sin was a prime example , she had factionss done but i went kurz route and ignored the lux area.Why did i do that ? - because i had it in my head that gayla hatchery was going to be a pain to do and so i left it for almost a yr.When i did gayla with a guildie - it wasnt as bad as what i thought and since then ive done it on multiple chrs.
Just keep at it - check on guru / gwpvx.com for builds , tips etc , infact if you get stuck then make a new post in right section with your hero builds listed and the mission/quest your having probs with as that way we can see what builds are used and offer advice
Cryshal
Thanks all for your tips. I will copy and save and study.
My small guild is up to my quests now in EotN and we did Heart of the Shiverpeaks last night. The first one through was a disaster, so the group took another look at their skills to decide what would work better. The second run through really surprised us. We killed the worm boss instantly, that is within two minutes. We will have to discuss it to see what we think worked.
My small guild is up to my quests now in EotN and we did Heart of the Shiverpeaks last night. The first one through was a disaster, so the group took another look at their skills to decide what would work better. The second run through really surprised us. We killed the worm boss instantly, that is within two minutes. We will have to discuss it to see what we think worked.
Iuris
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You players amaze me with your abilities. You think it's simple, from what you say, and yet it isn't for me.
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Useless to post my heroes or builds since, as I said, I change them out over and over trying to find a good group for a quest. I have my heroes runed as best I can. I have Jora, Koss, Master of Whispers, Vekk, Jehd, Tahlkora, Ogden, MOX, one other Necro, Paragon and two Rangers. My EotN, main character, is Ranger. My Factions character is Ritualist, and my Nightfall character is Paragon. |
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I have as many skills as I could find. I don't have Pain Inverter, can't get it. I did read my post on EotN and tried the tips from the replies. From what I see with the final quests is that you need to do them enough times to understand what's going on, what you need to do. And for me that means hours. After I've tried three times, I'm too frustrated to continue. The Vanguard isn't hard to get to, but so much going on and I'm lost there. The Dwarf quest has the boss at the end who kills you just by looking at you. You can't use the heroes there. To get the kegs you have to run all the way back to the Dwarves? |
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Winds of Change. My Ritualist can't use spirits. They are used against me. Or immediately killed. Too many high level enemies swarm me. That I guess is my main complaint about the harder quests. My heroes and I are level 20, and the swarms of enemies are level 28. It doesn't make sense to me. |

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Thanks to all who have replied. I guess my final answer is just that I'm not going to finish EotN, nor do Winds of Change or War in Kryta. I hope GW2 will be different. I will have a guild, so perhaps together we will be able to do the harder quests, and I assume there will be harder. |
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I also don't have Discord, can't get it. |
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For cruzor: I can guess at panic and ineptitude, but what are SoS and SoGM? |
SoGM: Signet of ghostly might, an elite signet that makes all allied spirits attack faster and do more damage. If you've already got many spirits around, this can make them 50% more aggressive - that's basic team building.
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Also, do you use all heroes or mix in mercenaries to get two or three of any one class? |
Flameseeker
Just to clear a bit from what i said before.
I didn't want to imply SoS or discord are the best builds out there.
SoS might be easier to learn compared to SoGM since he can make his spirits last longer. That way he might be able to pay more attention to positioning and learn the timing for each situation, which he should work before some skills that require a little more to manage.
Discord is just a skill that provides a huge bar compression. That has the only damaging skill can spike down targets easily, while the rest of the bar can be used for utility purposes, be it minions/hexes/heals.
There are other more effective solutions, and with the mercs now you have even more freedom to abuse the strengths of each profession (though thei're not required for anything), but discord is just a lazy easy mode since you can just think a little about pulling and positioning in the more difficult areas.
Don't know if you already read something about zaishen elite, but it's quite easy to get there 6k faction/day and use it to unlock skills. I wouldn't bother unlocking elites unless it's absolutely necessary. You'll probably try legendary skill hunter so you'll unlock them all.
Another advice, you might have noticed something about that already, is that melee heroes AI is just awful compared to caster heroes (and those have some problems too).
One last thing is don't focus only on healing, in NM that might be fine in most cases but your team will just get stomped in HM.
Prot is a great way to keep yourself safe, a Soul Twist/Shelter Rit can keep you alive through difficult enemies spikes. And if you bring a monk with you, you can use protective spirit in yourself to grab agro while distanced from your team, preventing disastrous spikes that would take your team down in seconds.
Good luck in adventures and try to learn from your mistakes, even older players still learn a thing or two no matter how good they are.
I didn't want to imply SoS or discord are the best builds out there.
SoS might be easier to learn compared to SoGM since he can make his spirits last longer. That way he might be able to pay more attention to positioning and learn the timing for each situation, which he should work before some skills that require a little more to manage.
Discord is just a skill that provides a huge bar compression. That has the only damaging skill can spike down targets easily, while the rest of the bar can be used for utility purposes, be it minions/hexes/heals.
There are other more effective solutions, and with the mercs now you have even more freedom to abuse the strengths of each profession (though thei're not required for anything), but discord is just a lazy easy mode since you can just think a little about pulling and positioning in the more difficult areas.
Don't know if you already read something about zaishen elite, but it's quite easy to get there 6k faction/day and use it to unlock skills. I wouldn't bother unlocking elites unless it's absolutely necessary. You'll probably try legendary skill hunter so you'll unlock them all.
Another advice, you might have noticed something about that already, is that melee heroes AI is just awful compared to caster heroes (and those have some problems too).
One last thing is don't focus only on healing, in NM that might be fine in most cases but your team will just get stomped in HM.
Prot is a great way to keep yourself safe, a Soul Twist/Shelter Rit can keep you alive through difficult enemies spikes. And if you bring a monk with you, you can use protective spirit in yourself to grab agro while distanced from your team, preventing disastrous spikes that would take your team down in seconds.
Good luck in adventures and try to learn from your mistakes, even older players still learn a thing or two no matter how good they are.
Elfblade
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Just to clear a bit from what i said before.
I didn't want to imply SoS or discord are the best builds out there. SoS might be easier to learn compared to SoGM since he can make his spirits last longer. That way he might be able to pay more attention to positioning and learn the timing for each situation, which he should work before some skills that require a little more to manage. |
another try: i think both are great options and offer the same value as a player in a hero team. i just think that the sogm can be better kept up by a human player and you have acces to summon spirits to heal and tp them (as they have a long recharge and higher cost). I think both offer the same learning value as you said he can just poop down the spirits and pay attention to his surroundings both builds offer that.
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Discord is just a skill that provides a huge bar compression. That has the only damaging skill can spike down targets easily, while the rest of the bar can be used for utility purposes, be it minions/hexes/heals.
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Your suggestion on the zaishen elite is great, i totally forgot you can earn easy faction and use it to unlock the skills needed for heroes instead of going out to cap them.
afya
The only thing I found WoC hard is the overlapping of petrol groups, which makes you really easy to get sandwiched or to over-aggroing 3 groups.
Longbow is a must, and don't try to ninja pass groups, they WILL come to you.
Longbow is a must, and don't try to ninja pass groups, they WILL come to you.
Cryshal
afya, yes, those patroling groups do me in. What is maddening is to go so far and wipe, and end with -60, but I see that many players do finish with -60 because of the way you have to whittle whittle on enemy groups to get past them and on to the next whittle whittle.

ChaoticCoyote
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afya, yes, those patroling groups do me in. What is maddening is to go so far and wipe, and end with -60, but I see that many players do finish with -60 because of the way you have to whittle whittle on enemy groups to get past them and on to the next whittle whittle.
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Heck, even with overpowered heroes and mercenaries and whatever, crap happens, and I sometimes wipe. I keep various candy canes and connsumables (available from faction vendors in EoTN after your reach level 3 rep with tme).
The key, in my opinion, is to have enough skill unlock to build good heroes and mercenaries. That means buying skills, using Balthazar faction for unlocks, and capping elites. In my opinion, having the best skills unlocked is the key to the end game and hard mode.
Cryshal
I have picked up all the better skills. I can't use some of the best ones because of my profession, Ranger, and Heroes can't use the elites.
I would like to know more about getting Balthazar faction, where to start, how, etc.
I would like to know more about getting Balthazar faction, where to start, how, etc.
BenjZee
Cap some of the skills anyway and it will unlock them over your account so your heroes can use them, it will also progress in your title for Skill hunter. This game has difficult parts but i wouldnt want it to be simplier, though i do advise vanquishing Cho's estate before you do WoC.
They made WiK last battle easier and that was before we could even have a full team of heroes, i say stick at it and get used to the game mechanics and diverse yourself into more builds. Your heroes being upgraded aren't essential but i have to say if you get more in to it your'll learn alot more about the different upgrades and weapons available to you.
Balthazar faction need not be got to unlock skills as there may be a lot more convenient methods, though i would look up Zaishen Elite mission in the battle isles as a really conveniant way of gaining them.
Quick note on Signet of Spirits: Somewhat lazy but you can make a pretty efficent spirit spammer on any proffesion and dude to ranger's experitse attribute they are almost as good as ritualists.
They made WiK last battle easier and that was before we could even have a full team of heroes, i say stick at it and get used to the game mechanics and diverse yourself into more builds. Your heroes being upgraded aren't essential but i have to say if you get more in to it your'll learn alot more about the different upgrades and weapons available to you.
Balthazar faction need not be got to unlock skills as there may be a lot more convenient methods, though i would look up Zaishen Elite mission in the battle isles as a really conveniant way of gaining them.
Quick note on Signet of Spirits: Somewhat lazy but you can make a pretty efficent spirit spammer on any proffesion and dude to ranger's experitse attribute they are almost as good as ritualists.
Da Kenster
As the previous poster stated, the Zaishen elite is a great way to farm balthazar faction, with a cap of 6k a day. As a ranger, you can easily do this with a trapping build. With a team of players, a single run can be completed relatively fast, with henchmen it will take longer. The trick is finding a group at the right time from my experience.
Good luck to you.
Good luck to you.
Tom Swift
Forgive me if I misunderstood but when you say that heroes can't use the elites, did you mean because you have not yet capped or unlocked elites you want them to use? Or did you mean the PvE only skills?