Returning player finding the game EXTREMELY hard, advice appreciated.

I played GW:Prophecies when it was fresh and new and got myself quite far in the story but stopped before ever actually finishing it. Didn't do much else. I then returned for a couple of months with Nightfall and got quite far in the story as well but again never finished it.

Now I return, several years later, and obviously I've forgotten almost everything I knew about the game and I do NOT remember it being this hard.

I'm overwhelmed by the amount of different skill/build options and I've spent hours reading forums and wikis trying to find a build (which I at least have most of the skills of) so I can start looking for new skills and get some practice. But as soon as I step out of that swirling portal I get slaughtered, giving me no chance to get those essential elite skills.

It would seem I'm stuck.

I have two characters, first an Elementalist at the Ring of Fire mission in the Prophecies campaign that I haven't played with since Prophecies. And second a Dervish at the Gate of Madness mission which is the one I'm currently playing with.

I really enjoyed this game when I used to play it and I look forward to get back to the stories, see the end of the campaigns and hopefully also get some HoM points for Guild Wars 2 goodies, but as it looks right now I'm seriously struggling to make even one tiny step forward.

Is it really meant to be this hard?

I'd be very grateful for any advice you can give me.

If you're rusty, the game would of course be hard. There's been a serious power creep over the years. Get up to speed with that and you'll be fine.

Take a look at http://www.gwpvx.com
That's the new home for builds (avoid any wikis with "Wikia" in the URL -- the community has moved away from Wikia). I'm not necessarily suggesting you just slap some cookie-cutter builds on your bars and go, but examining some meta bars might catch you up to what skills are favored right now.

Your elementalist -- stupid question, but you're not running a fire build, are you? You might mop things up a little easier in the Ring of Fire with cold damage (or bringing Winter). Are you running with heroes or henchmen? If henchmen, you might consider going to Lion's Arch and taking the quests to Nightfall and Eye of the North (assuming you have it -- you mentioned your HoM) to grab a few heroes.

On the subject of heroes, have you tweaked the bars of your dervish's heroes? Are they fully equipped with runes and insignias? That can make a huge difference as you get into the upper areas of the campaigns.

Just some general hero tips: You can play with a full party of them now. A minion master will help soak up a lot of damage. Panic mesmers are great at taking the heat off. There are a lot of choices in healing right now -- N/Rt party-wide stuff, Ether-Renewal E/Mo protters, and of course old-school protection/healing monks. That's a personal choice up to you.

Good luck!

Thank you Star_Jewel, that was a very helpful reply.

Now, let me be a bit more specific. http://gwpvx.com is the site I've been checking out for builds, and the official wiki more for campaign and mission information. Now, the problem with the builds on pvx is that I rarely have the skills needed for them, there's so many gaps in them that the builds just don't become viable, or at least that's what it feels like. So going out to hunt for elite's is almost impossible.

Now, I do have EotN (and all other campaigns) and yes, I have been playing with 7 heroes but only with their default equipment/builds. I'm struggling enough to get my own character specced that I couldn't muster to go through every single hero and try to build them. Oh, and how do you get new elite skills for your heroes?

As with runes and insignias, aren't they really expensive or hard to find? I don't think I even have that for my own character. I'll look for a guide for that as well. But damn, that adds to the complications!

Thank you for the hero build suggestions, but I didn't find the "minion master" hero build on pvx, should I use just a normal (i.e. non-hero) minion master build?

And finally, between Dervish and Elementalist, which one would you suggest as the easiest to get going with?

Again, thanks a lot for all the help.

First of all welcome back to the game.

Like said before looking carefully at your hero's bar might offer sucess. What was very good 4 years ago can now be plain rubbish due to buffs and nerfs of skills. Beside that your prolly fighting area's that are too hard given your inexperience. Both ring of fire and gate of madness are difficult missions, specially if you haven't played in years.

You might wanna consider jumping back in the story and redoing early missions (e.g. the missions on the nightfall island or in the ascalon region). Things like chabeck village are very easy and gives you time to get the basics again

Thank you akelarumi! I haven't even touched the missions yet as I imagined them being far too hard for me yet. When I mentioned I get slaughtered, it's from mobs in explorable areas, I'm that weak .

All I've been doing at the moment is trying to hunt down elite skills so I can get a try at at least one build from PvX but it's all a vicious circle. I'll keep trying though, and I know I can't avoid looking at my heroes a bit more closely so I'll do that next, hopefully it'll help.

If your heroes don't have the best builds you might need to use hench in the short term to get things done until you have unlocked all the skills needed to spec them properly.

Don't forget there there are Hero Skill Trainers that will teach them skills in Nightfall. These trainers require Hero Points that you earned by leveling up your heroes.

Another method for teaching heroes skills is to change your own secondary profession and learn the skill yourself. Any skill you have unlocked on your account will be usable by your Heroes. So even using Balthazar Faction to unlock skills will free them for Heroes to use.

Be sure and speak with a Zaishen Scout and visit Embark Beach. That might be a good place to find live people to help with missions. Just find one that is a Zaishen Mission of the day and you should find lots of people doing that misssion as well.

Oh, almost forgot, I would suggest the Dervish is the one you should focus on. With their new redesign they are very powerful.

Lol both of those missions would be terrible for a new/returning player no wonder you are having a hard time. I would suggest playing your Derv unless you really enjoy the Ele as they are not very viable using their elemental magic to destroy shit in hard mode these days, but they can be great for support. Seeing as how heroes do 90% of the work usually it really doesn't matter what you play to be honest.

You really shouldn't need pvx to complete anything on normal mode I recently went through the game fully without heroes in proph and went pretty smooth, then again I've been playing for years so I know the mechanics of monsters and how to pull correctly. Just try to be smart about who you target first for example monks or ele's are usually my first and call out your target so your heroes help you (hold ctrl & use a skill).

Pay attention to your surroundings, if you're standing in a rain of fire that may be why you are taking too much damage etc. simple things like this can be game breaking. In some cases you might just want to use henchmen instead of heroes if you don't have a variety of skills for them. When using heroes you can flag 1, 2, and 3 apart from each other before taking on big mobs to prevent them from taking adjacent/aoe damage. For example the skill fireball will hit it's target and foes adjacent to it, not good for you if you are bunched up.

I don't agree that ele's are not good at hard mode. There are enough builds out there that can roll hard mode easily (and not only support builds). It's true most foes in hm have high armor against damage, but there are enough ways to nuke them anyway. I have played all professions both in normal mode and hard mode. but my ele is still my main and only one that did everything in hm (and most of the time using a firebuild with two ele hero's using firebuilds as well).

To OP, you actually only need one good elite skill to have a solid build that gets you through normal mode most of the time. So you might wanna consider asking someones help for it (I might be online later today). Like being said, don't bring hero's when their builds aren't ready yet, henchman can put out a good fight in normal mode.

For your dervish I would recommend one of the avatar's as your elite skill. For your ele there are several options, depending on the element you pick (seering flame is my favourite, but some foes are immuun to burning so it's not alway good to go fire).

I'd avoid pvxwiki if it was me, I had a nosey the other day and most of the 'Hero' builds I looked at had player only pve skills in the bars, oh dear

If you aren't in a guild it might be worth joining one to ask for builds or help. Almost every guild/alliance I've been in you get numerous people posting various builds when someone asks for a player or hero build.

More thanks to all of you! Loads of great advice. And a bigger thanks to Crom The Pale who helped me go through the Gate of Madness mission and gave me some great builds to start out with.

I actually prefer my Dervish so I'm glad to hear it's a good class at the moment. Also great to know henchmen are viable still, I was sticking with my heroes thinking they were loads better even if badly specced. So I will go ahead and try to go skill hunting with them and see how it goes.

@Zebideedee: I've been thinking of joining a guild but I'll postpone that since I'm going away for a couple of weeks and don't want to commit fully to the game just yet.

@akelarumi: I might take you up on that offer for help. Much appreciated .

I hope you don't mind I keep asking questions here. I'm baffled by the support of this community, very, very friendly!


So next step I've been thinking about is armour and equipment in general. I still carry the basic armor (55 armor rating), should I upgrade asap? I think I can actually afford the Vabbian set.

Also, when it comes to loot and salvaging. I know this might be a wide question, but just as a general guide, should I be salvaging a lot or mostly vendor stuff? Any quick hints on that would be appreciated.

Thanks!

@Zebideedee: yeah thats because they are used by people too, but if you scroll down there usually is a hero version too, assuming the build has the hero tag.

@Nelien: If you don't have max armor that should be a priority, I wouldn't go with elite armor since looks are the only thing that separates the elite armor sets from 1k sets if they are max, and you can use that money to buy runes and equipment.

About the armor: YES! Having max armor will definitively make a difference especially if you're currently near the end. In you case, a Dervish would have 70 armor instead of your current 55. All normal armors can be bought with max stats and are a lot less expensive than the prestige ones (like Vabbian). However, prestige armors can be dedicated in your HoM. You can see prices by clicking on the armor's name here: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dervish_armor

As for loot/salvage, I usually salvage anything that gives iron, granite, feathers, plant fibers and glittering dust -- basically all those that are worth quite at bit more. It takes a little while to learn which item gives which material, but once you do it a couple of times, you'll see a pattern (e.g. martial weapons often give iron). Same principle for runes; you can have a look at the prices at a rune trader and see what's worth salvaging and what's not. When merch'ing stuff, remember that identifying white items will raise their value a little -- every gold piece counts!

No wonder you've been finding it hard!

Yes, you should upgrade your armor ASAP. You don't need to get any fancy armor, just plain, cheap - but max level (AL 70 for a dervish) - armor from Consulate Docks or the Command Post.

And yes, Heroes need to (ideally) be fully outfitted to be effective. That means a full set of Runes and Insignias (with Major Vigor), max & usable weapons (no random green crap), and a workable build. I'd also recommend that you start with the Hero build types you can't get as Henchmen, such as an MM Necro and SoS Rit, and I always prefer Hero Monks to Henchmen because they can be set to "avoid combat" to keep them out of trouble.

Salvaging materials - generally speaking it's best to salvage for the materials needed to make your new armor. Eventually you will know more about what salvages into what and what's worth salvaging.
At this time, except for the materials you need for new armor, it's generally more cost effective to sell things to the merchant than to salvage them.

-andy- and The Guildless: I had completely forgotten about the "normal" max armour. I thought the elite ones were my next step. But looking at the prices, the normal armour would cost me about a third of the Vabbian one based on the materials I have, and considering I'm going to working towards those HoM points it might be worth it to go directly to the Vabbian one so I don't actually waste those 7-ish plat the normal armour costs.

On loot/salvage: I'm actually checking every single item I have with www.gwauctions.com to see if they're worth selling or vendoring. Is that website a reliable source of prices? Do people use it for trading?

Identifying white items? Sounds silly . I'll try that next time, as long as the increase in value is higher than the cost of an id-kit .

The 7-ish plat would not be wasted - it would immediately increase the ease with which you complete things and you'd have the 7 whole plat back in no time. Also, have you actually figured out what Vabbian armor costs? With the materials, gems and gold required, it's one of the most expensive sets.

(Lol, it's been a long time since 7k was worth worrying about spending.)

I usually use GwEstimator to find out the going price of whatever items I'm fixing to sell. For example if you want to sell a stack of feathers, just put in WTS Feathers and you will see what people are selling them for, or WTB to see what they're buying for.

It also shows the dates and it's all recent traffic, the information is taken straight out of people spamming in Kamadan which is basically the main trade hub in the game.

In case you didn't know, WTS = want to sell and WTB = want to buy.

@Quaker: Missed your post when I was replying. I did not realise it was possible to add runes to my heroes.. Nor change their weapons.. I guess I have a long way to go to get them suitable.

With runes and insignias, should I always go with those that add health? Vigor/Survival? Those are preeeeetty expensive. Will not be able to afford a full set in a very long time. And weapons... Damn. All my heroes have their default stuff, don't think it's max damage and all baby blue and probably worthless. *sigh*

Oh, and yes, I did check the price for Vabbian armour but mistook the "value" of the materials for the actual price! So, hell no, I'm not even close to affording it . Normal armour it is!

EDIT: @ruk1a: Thanks I'll try that.

You should always have some level of Vigor Rune, but the rest can depend upon the class of character and the build. There are lots of class-specific Insignias that you can use, that are cheap. I would also recommend a Major rune of the builds main attribute (on the headpiece) and a minor of the classes primary attribute - for example, on an MM hero you would have Major Death Magic and Minor Soul Reaping (and maybe, Minion Master insignias). You can improve them as you gain money and/or salvage runes from dropped armor.

Honestly, my advice: if you don't remember anything, go back and start a new character to relearn the game. Seriously, don't try to play end-game areas if you're having trouble just putting a build together. There have been a LOT of skill changes in the past few years, and even if there weren't, you'd be having a difficult time getting re-used to the combat system. I'm not going to say the low level areas are exactly teeming with life, but there are new players getting started in the game (see: the steady trickle of threads around here from new players asking for help) to play with.

A word about runes (I didn't see anyone else mention this). You do know you can get good basic, very usable runes, by salvaging unidentified blue armor. The tengu in North Kryta province in NM tend to drop a bunch of vitaes and survivors, usually on the same armor. It's where I'll go farm if I need runes for a new hero. I have boatloads of vitae, survivors, decent runes for specific classes, etc... all great runes for your heros and you. In the time I've played, I've only found two superior vigors, but the major vigor runes are fairly easy to get and are better than nothing if you don't have the money for superiors.

I do agree with someone who said you may want to make a new character and replay through to get used to all the new additions to the game. Then, when your confidence is up and your knowledge is refreshed, you can go back and finish those last missions.

Oh, and I've always found the last few missions in Prophecies to be one of the hardest, so don't feel too bad. I did it with heros and henchmen on my ele with a water build but it took me long time of careful pulling after several failed attempts and building/rebuilding my heros. (This was before the 7 hero party)

I'm going to echo the people suggesting you start a new character to get a grip on earlier, easier parts of the game for that reason plus this: New characters spend less on skills. A cheap way to get some skills unlocked for your heroes is to create some temporary newbies of each profession (preferably in Factions or Nightfall), do some of the starter quests to level a little and get some skill points, then visit the local skill trainers. Unlock what you can up to it costing ~700-800g each, then do it again. You'll also unlock a lot of the freebie training skills this way. It can save you some plat in the long run.

While playing a new character is not something I feel like doing I do plan on getting started with the Prophecies and Factions stories soon on my Dervish which has only done Nightfall so far so that should give me a smooth start.

As for runes, I've been crunching and cramming information and I think I have a fairly good idea now of what to choose. Noticed that good information can be found on the class specific forums. I imagine runes that would work well on a player would work similarly well on a hero.

I tried running, now with 70 armor, with a full henchman group except for one hero monk (so that I could put him on "avoid combat") and it went surprisingly well on a little bit of exploring. Again, thank you all very very much for the help!

As far as weapons go, don't underestimate collectors. You can get a bunch of max weapons with good mods from collectors - Prophecies is especially good for getting good weapons for caster professions.

And yes, upgrade your armor ASAP! Even though Dervishes have increased armor with active enchantments, 55 armor is far too little. Sure, it might be tempting to just keep with your current armor until you have enough for Vabbian, but you should really just spend the money and materials on a set of max Sunspear/Elonian/Istan armor. The ~7k or so that it costs is really just small change, and with being able to stay alive better because you have max armor you'll be able to make it back fairly quickly.

You'll also be able to get a lot of runes for your heroes simply by IDing colored armor drops from enemies and salvaging off the runes. Virtually free (just the cost of an ID kit and salvage kit) if not a bit time consuming, and you'll make money on selling off the stuff you don't need.

A good way to make money and get lots of runes is to farm the Sensali in Jaya Bluffs in Factions; you should be able to do this fairly easily with either your Ele or Dervish. Collect all of the feathers and scalps (salvage the latter) and sell those in stacks, while also picking up all the armor they drop. They drop a lot of runes, as well as dyes. It's a quick easy farm that's normally done in normal mode, and very profitable. So long as you've got a way to do damage and heal yourself, you're pretty much good to go.

Actually, you get hero skill points by ranking up in the Sunspear, Lightbringer, and EOTN title tracks.

Actually, blue, purple, or gold armor.

Some good stuff in this thread for a true noob like me (i.e. not a returning player). I wanted to get back to the salvage a bit:

Is there a general guideline on when to use a standard salvage kit vs. an expert? The wiki states that the expert gives a higher chance of rare materials or more common materials. Should I just always use expert and call it a day? Or maybe some guideline like 'use expert if it dropped off level x mobs'?

You could check the item on wiki to see what it can be salvage into. Some things, like for example, most bows, only salvage into wood, so there's little point in using an expert salvage kit (I don't find that the chance of getting more common materials is worth the extra cost of the Expert kit).

I would recommend that you only salvage things if you want/need the materials. Most of the time the value of the materials you get (if you were to sell the mats to the trader) is less than the value the merchant would give you for the un-salvaged item. But, conversely, it can be cheaper to salvage for materials than to buy them from the trader - because of the difference in buy & sell prices.
Selling materials to other players is somewhere in between. It also varies depending upon the value of the materials. A stack of (250) feathers is worth a lot more than a stack of wood.

One thing though, if you get a blue item (without an inscription) that is "highly salvageable", it is always cost effective to salvage it. "Measure for Measure" (highly salvageable) inscriptions are best used on inscribeable items that can be salvaged into rare materials like gems, etc.

I'm not sure if anyone have mentioned this before, I just skimed through the responses. Anyhow, roll a pvp only ranger, put on the best trapperbuild you can muster and do zaishen elite. This way you'll earn 6k balthazar faction per day (that's the cap). First use it in order to unlock a really good trapper's build, then start unlocking skills for your heroes. Before you know it your heroes will have decent builds as well.
You could also unlock skills for yourself and then use tomes to learn them.

Related liks to elaborate on my post: http://www.guildwiki.org/Zaishen_Elite and http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_Ba...aishen_Trapper

I always use the superior salvage kit because I'm lazy and don't want to buy a new kit all that often, it also saves storage space. But it is indeed more expensive, that doesn't matter to me though.
However, when I had little money I went with normal and expert alternating depending on if I wanted rare or common material. If you want bolt of cloth for example it's easier to just use the common one because then you don't risk getting linen or other stupid rare crafting material

I guess the answer depends on how lazy you are and what you want to accomplish.
On a sidenote: always salvage runes that are more expensive than 100g at the runetrader, it can pay off pretty neatly when you get the right runes.

About salvaging and selling runes - there's only a handful that are really worth anything at the rune trader. Most purple and gold runes you might be better off IDing and selling to a regular merchant. There are always exceptions to this, though, so see what the rune trader is offering before going that route. But if you've got, say, a rune of Superior Motivation (to name one that's completely useless), the rune trader will only offer 10g. IDing it and selling it at a regular merchant will get you much more than that. Still small change, all things told, but it does add up.

Though it has likely been stated before I will say it once again, make certain you have runed your Heroes (minor runes only is often the best route) before merching any. It can be tempting to just sell off a minor vigor once you have a major on your armor but check our your heroes, they can certainly benifit from it as you will likely be using them a fair bit.