Update: August 25th 2011 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Horus Moonlight

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Me/Mo

26 Aug 2011 at 20:09 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

quality>quantity

Delusions of grandeur are very hard to standardize.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

Never noticed one of these bug and smiters boon needs to be reverted back for RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO sake. All I can say is I hope there is a big update besides WoC part 2 that satisfies most of us, but chances are slim.

Reverting Smiter's Boon would be 1 of the dumbest decisions they'll ever make.

Kunder

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2010

26 Aug 2011 at 21:48 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

If bugs are being fixed, I'd have hoped that they'd get around to tackling the one bug that has an actual impact on the competitive metagame.

What bug? If you are referring to the "anomaly" of + damage being armor ignoring, its the same way for every other skill in the game. If you want a nerf to a skill then say so, because its perfectly normal behavior and in no way buggy.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

26 Aug 2011 at 21:50 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

What bug? If you are referring to the "anomaly" of + damage being armor ignoring, its the same way for every other skill in the game. If you want a nerf to a skill then say so, because its perfectly normal behavior and in no way buggy.

It says + cold damage, and should thus respect armor. It even triggers on Mantra of Frost, so it's definitely glitched.

Then again, so are conjures.

Kunder

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2010

26 Aug 2011 at 22:25 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

It says + cold damage, and should thus respect armor. It even triggers on Mantra of Frost, so it's definitely glitched.

Then again, so are conjures.

The type of the damage has nothing to do with whether it is armor ignoring or not. You can change the damage type of every source of damage in in the game to cold through usage of GC + Winter, doesn't mean they can't ignore armor.

October Jade

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

drifting between Indiana and NorCal

27 Aug 2011 at 02:02 - 45

Dust Trap is another example of armor-ignoring elemental damage.

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

27 Aug 2011 at 02:12 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

The type of the damage has nothing to do with whether it is armor ignoring or not. You can change the damage type of every source of damage in in the game to cold through usage of GC + Winter, doesn't mean they can't ignore armor.

Yep, it does. Only undefined damage is armor ignored, aka true damage, with the exception of Holy Damage of skills and Shadow Damage. By definition, every form of elemental damage should respect armor, unless stated otherwise in the description.

Also GC and Winter only convert only physical and elemental damage to cold damage.

DiogoSilva

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2011

Girl

E/

27 Aug 2011 at 03:19 - 47

If you people want them to give higher priority to more important bug fixes, then it's very simple. Go to the official forums and report those bugs.

So far, almost all the bug fixes reflect the reports posted on their forums. So clearly, they are giving priority to whichever one is posted there first.

Here's the link:
https://forum.guildwars.com/forum/forums/gamebugs

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Dr Pepper X

They don't even give news or information- the least common denominator of game balance and maintenance for the game's community

Actually, they'll be at the PAX today.

So expect some news later on. Maybe a preview for WoC part 2.

Kunder

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2010

27 Aug 2011 at 03:20 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Yep, it does. Only undefined damage is armor ignored, aka true damage, with the exception of Holy Damage of skills and Shadow Damage. By definition, every form of elemental damage should respect armor, unless stated otherwise in the description.

Except for weapons, which can inflict Holy armor-scaled damage (either on their own or with attack type changing skills. And a few Holy damage skills that check for armor. And except for every single physical skill in the game, which are almost all armor ignoring. And except for plenty of elemental skills that are armor ignoring, though the only one reasonably important currently is Ancestor's rage. Then, there is the obvious distinction between -% damage and +armor, even though effectively they work exactly the same (+40 armor being worth -50% damage), so there is clearly a different point in the damage formula at which damage type and armor bypassing happen. Your "definition" doesn't exist, there is no Guild Wars dictionary. Type and relation to armor levels are wholly independent of each other.

Quote:

Also GC and Winter only convert only physical and elemental damage to cold damage

*derp*

makosi

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

"Pre-nerf" is incorrect. It's pre-buff.

Requirement Begins With R [notQ]

Me/

27 Aug 2011 at 07:17 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

You can change the damage type of every source of damage in in the game to cold through usage of GC + Winter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Also GC and Winter only convert only physical and elemental damage to cold damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

*derp*

I hope that was self-derprication.

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

27 Aug 2011 at 08:10 - 50

They seem like small fixes about inconsistencies in the text and the skill behavior.

The 'fix' in Smiter's Boon is kind of amusing, though.

drkn

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2009

Wroc??aw, Poland

Midnight Mayhem

Me/

27 Aug 2011 at 09:25 - 51

I'm with DiogoSilva on this.
I suggest the knowledgable people to edit and fill this wiki page with as many glitched skills as possible, then report the list and explain why its buggy to ANet via their support forums. It might be a good idea to split the list above into two parts, with proper armor-ignoring skills and with bugged ones.

impulsion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2008

Terra Noise [Zraw]

N/A

27 Aug 2011 at 09:43 - 52

Untyped dmg, dmg from attack skills, hoyl dmg from skills, and shadow dmg are armor ignoring.
Physical/elemental/holy from weapons/dark etc. are not.

Some skills contradict this and they are anomalies/bugs. I think we should mark these bugged skills with a bug thing on the wiki, and update the list like drkn said.

Lishy

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2008

27 Aug 2011 at 13:51 - 53

This is sweet. Hopefully they fix armor clipping eventually!

Dzjudz

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

gwpvx.com/user:dzjudz

27 Aug 2011 at 14:13 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lishy

This is sweet. Hopefully they fix armor clipping eventually!

Sorry to disappoint you, but that's in all likelihood never going to happen. Art bugs will not be fixed.

AndrewSX

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2010

Italy, Turin

Lake

E/

27 Aug 2011 at 15:14 - 55

About "buggy" or so stuff with actual impact on game...

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ancestor%27s_Rage

This is one as is labeled should work exactely like any Ele's spell. Just saying.

Lanier

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

[Pink]

P/

27 Aug 2011 at 16:03 - 56

Is that really a bug though, if a skill that does ligntning damage or cold damage ignores armor in-game? I mean not every source of elemental damage is affected by armor. Maybe these are intentional.

AndrewSX

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2010

Italy, Turin

Lake

E/

27 Aug 2011 at 16:17 - 57

I really doubt that is intentional...i mean, why Ancestor's Rage and not Channeled Strike/Clamor of souls(etc) and why Mirror of Ice but not Deep Freeze/Ice Spikes(etc)?
Is a nonsense.
Also, this should mean that is intentional having the "Master of caster Dmg"(read: Ele) reduced as it is in pve enviroment?
Those are most probably bugs imo (or i really do hope, cause if not would be true the above sentence, meh).

impulsion

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2008

Terra Noise [Zraw]

N/A

27 Aug 2011 at 18:05 - 58

Ancestor's rage is intentional. The dev's said it was going to be armor ignoring on the Developer Update page. It's more of an anomaly since there are only like 3 skills that are armor-ignoring and elemental.

Kunder

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2010

27 Aug 2011 at 18:14 - 59

Should Splinter Weapon then become armor-affected along with Ancestors' Rage? Because "fixing" both of those will essentially nerf the only useful rit builds that aren't retarded spirit spamming by 50% in PvE. Clearly Anet has always balanced these skills with full knowledge that they have been armor ignoring. If anything we should have more armor ignoring skills (seeing how that actually makes them useful for PvE), the problem with certain skills in PvP can easily be addressed by actually balancing them.

Lanier

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

[Pink]

P/

27 Aug 2011 at 22:02 - 60

If you want to nerf MoI in PvP, then why not just reduce the armor-ignoring damage in PvP? That way you arn't unnecessarily nerfing the skill in PvE.

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

27 Aug 2011 at 22:32 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

If you want to nerf MoI in PvP, then why not just reduce the armor-ignoring damage in PvP? That way you arn't unnecessarily nerfing the skill in PvE.

Why would anyone use Mirror of Ice in PvE?

Alay

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2010

27 Aug 2011 at 22:55 - 62

Oh sweet! I can finally use Smiter's Boon!

Killed u man

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

27 Aug 2011 at 23:38 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Should Splinter Weapon then become armor-affected along with Ancestors' Rage? Because "fixing" both of those will essentially nerf the only useful rit builds that aren't retarded spirit spamming by 50% in PvE. Clearly Anet has always balanced these skills with full knowledge that they have been armor ignoring. If anything we should have more armor ignoring skills (seeing how that actually makes them useful for PvE), the problem with certain skills in PvP can easily be addressed by actually balancing them.

Well, I'm not arguing as to wether or not these skills should be nerfed. All I said was that these skills are "glitched" as in: the skill description does not represent the skill correctly or the skill ignores certain game mechanics.

Reverend Dr

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]

W/

27 Aug 2011 at 23:40 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

If you want to nerf MoI in PvP, then why not just reduce the armor-ignoring damage in PvP? That way you arn't unnecessarily nerfing the skill in PvE.

Because I have the authority to make skill changes.

Kunder

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2010

28 Aug 2011 at 03:28 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Well, I'm not arguing as to wether or not these skills should be nerfed. All I said was that these skills are "glitched" as in: the skill description does not represent the skill correctly or the skill ignores certain game mechanics.

Its no glitch if skills are working as intended, and the majority of armor ignoring or armor respecting skills don't state so in their descriptions. You are simply conjuring up some imagined rules for how you think guild wars should be that do not exist.

Lanier

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

[Pink]

P/

28 Aug 2011 at 05:00 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by MisterB

Why would anyone use Mirror of Ice in PvE?

Its the only way to even kind of do damage with a water build, and I occasionally enjoy running water builds.

Regardless, you're post is kind of beside the point. Is the fact that MoI is not commonly used in PvE a reason to nerf it in PvE? Of course not. If you want to see it nerfed in PvE, then fine. I mean its not all that big of a deal to me since I still don't use it that often. Still, you should at least give an actual reason.

This reminds me of the situation when Mind Wrack was nerfed in PvE and PvP due to PvP issues. It was never that big of a deal, but no justification was given to the PvE nerf, and it seemed kind of silly to nerf a skill in a format where it wasn't OP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Because I have the authority to make skill changes.

Huh?

DiogoSilva

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2011

Girl

E/

28 Aug 2011 at 05:45 - 67

MoI can be nerfed for pve easily, because it's already "nerfed" for pve enough to the point that it no longer matters.

The only way to "save" MoI in pve is to make a buffed split. For now, it's a skill that does little in one format and has consequences on the other.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

28 Aug 2011 at 05:46 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Its the only way to even kind of do damage with a water build, and I occasionally enjoy running water builds.

The best damage builds with Water are based on AP + PvE skills + Deep Freeze + Maelstrom ...

I've got nothing against a MoI nerf in PvE. It's a useless skill, so making it even more useless can't hurt. Unless of course ANet wants to split PvP / PvE versions of the skill as well, when they should just buff the PvE version.

I'm not convinced MoI (PvP) is overpowered, though.

AndrewSX

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2010

Italy, Turin

Lake

E/

28 Aug 2011 at 08:59 - 69

Well, i'm just saying that MoI or A-Rage dmg is labeled as "lighting" and "cold". Any other spell with this kind of dmg respect armor. If those do not, or is wrong the description, or they do not work as they were intended....or at least remove the dmg type from skill, like now looks just like a bug.

Lanier

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

[Pink]

P/

28 Aug 2011 at 15:25 - 70

Inferior =/= useless. Sure its inferior in PvE, but its not useless.

Quote:

The best damage builds with Water are based on AP + PvE skills + Deep Freeze + Maelstrom ...

I'm referring to builds that rely on the water skills for damage as opposed to the eotn PvE skills (which I never use as an ele anyway due to none of them actually making sense for an ele to use - I mean really, an ele that can summon assassins?)

I don't understand this logic that because a build isn't top-of-the-line in PvE, it is ok to nerf it. I mean I know that MoI is sub-par... but yea, I haven't actually seen any arguement as to why it should be nerfed. Not everyone uses the OP crap that we see nowadays, some like to have fun with somewhat-less-useful-but-more-fun builds.

Plus, I don't really think its prevalence is a bad thing in PvP anyway. Haven't PvPers been whining about the OPness of dervishes recently? Why would you want to nerf a build that counters frontliners, and one that doesn't even seem all that OP anyway?

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

28 Aug 2011 at 16:05 - 71

If a skill isn't used in a format, there's no reason to split it to save it in that format. Splitting should only be used in a situation where there is a good reason to save a useful skill from being otherwise destroyed.

Outerworld

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2010

UK

Gil Worz Is Srs [Bsns]

W/

28 Aug 2011 at 16:48 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

I don't understand this logic that because a build isn't top-of-the-line in PvE, it is ok to nerf it. I mean I know that MoI is sub-par... but yea, I haven't actually seen any arguement as to why it should be nerfed. Not everyone uses the OP crap that we see nowadays, some like to have fun with somewhat-less-useful-but-more-fun builds.

Try and think of it more like "What benefit would there be to splitting a skill that gets little to no use in PvE?". It would just be more work for no apparent reason.

Reverend Dr

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]

W/

28 Aug 2011 at 17:08 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Huh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

If you want to nerf MoI in PvP, then why not just reduce the armor-ignoring damage in PvP? That way you arn't unnecessarily nerfing the skill in PvE.

We've proposed many changes to MoI since it was changed. Ball is not in our court.

Lanier

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

[Pink]

P/

28 Aug 2011 at 23:58 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

If a skill isn't used in a format, there's no reason to split it to save it in that format. Splitting should only be used in a situation where there is a good reason to save a useful skill from being otherwise destroyed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Outerworld

Try and think of it more like "What benefit would there be to splitting a skill that gets little to no use in PvE?". It would just be more work for no apparent reason.

Valid points. I guess I have always been under the impression that actually instituting a split took a (relatively) small amount of time.

betterjonjon

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2006

Knights and Heroes [Beer]

Mo/

29 Aug 2011 at 03:08 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Valid points. I guess I have always been under the impression that actually instituting a split took a (relatively) small amount of time.

I think the main reason isn't that it takes a small amount of time, but that they have said that splitting skills actually reduces the effectiveness of the game engine

Kunder

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2010

29 Aug 2011 at 03:46 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewSX

Well, i'm just saying that MoI or A-Rage dmg is labeled as "lighting" and "cold". Any other spell with this kind of dmg respect armor. If those do not, or is wrong the description, or they do not work as they were intended....or at least remove the dmg type from skill, like now looks just like a bug.

At the same time, every other spell (even ones that do physical/elemental damage) that buffs another effect's damage has always done so by buffing with armor ignoring damage. See Conjures/Splinter Weapon/Attack Skills. When you try to maintain symmetry one way you break it another, as MoI will suddenly be the ONLY buff in the game that isn't armor ignoring. Heck, there may even be engine issues getting MoI to be armor respecting. If the damage equation only lets effects that buff damage come in after the armor check currently, making the change may require a lot of effort delving into what has to be one of the most complex parts of the game.

OTOH, we can simply nerf MoI because its overpowered. You know, like we do to every other skill that is overpowered (laugh with me here OK?).

Quote:

Originally Posted by betterjonjon

I think the main reason isn't that it takes a small amount of time, but that they have said that splitting skills actually reduces the effectiveness of the game engine

Yeah, bullshit. There is absolutely no conceivable reason it would be so unless the Guild Wars engine was a project for someone's Computer Programming 101 course. Yet somehow I have seen this little "fact" repeated dozens of times with absolutely no evidence other than wishy washy unsourced "I heard someone say Anet say it". Even in the unlikely case that anyone can procure a quote, chances are 100:1 that it was them making it up on the spot to get annoying people to stop asking them to split every skill in the game for no real reason.

Coast

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Belgium

Whats Going On [sup]

Mo/

29 Aug 2011 at 09:44 - 77

simple: make the dmg half of what it currently is, or 66% if 50% is too harsh

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

29 Aug 2011 at 17:00 - 78

I don't think the game engine "issue" is worth arguing over (except, possibly, if someone were to suggest splitting every skill in the game). The reason that I say splitting should be done only when necessary is because I play both PvP and PvE, and it's already frustrating trying to remember all of the differences.

Lanier

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

[Pink]

P/

29 Aug 2011 at 18:07 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

I don't think the game engine "issue" is worth arguing over (except, possibly, if someone were to suggest splitting every skill in the game). The reason that I say splitting should be done only when necessary is because I play both PvP and PvE, and it's already frustrating trying to remember all of the differences.

I hardly think that the ability to memorize skills should affect skill updates.