So I am trying to H/H Duncan in Normal Mode with my primary ranger, but I don't have Nightfall meaning I don't have swap, and I don't have Signet of Sorrow...
(Note I do have prophecies, factions and GWEN...dont ask)
I've tried just about every other solution or combination I can find including Rit Lord, spirit spammer, BHA, RoJ Nukers, Degen combos, touchers...
The most successful so far has been 2 BHA rangers with poison, a sword warrior with deep wound, Consume Soul Rit, Panic Mesmer, Minion bomber Necro (mostly to get to duncan), healer monk, and ele nuker (again to get to duncan).
The BHA rangers + the deep wound warrior were successful in getting him down to 1/3rd hp, but once the DP goes up the spirits just become too much.
I have been approaching duncan from the north west corner. Meaning I go around from the right and can avoid the spirit group on the stairs and on the left, until the warrior starts attacking duncan.
I am going to swap the sword warrior for a hammer with knockdown, and I might swap the necro with a protection hench...but apart from that...
Has anyone got any tips on how to beat this guy without swap or SoS?!
Help on Duncan the black without Swap or SoS
Sube
Marty Silverblade
I did this in HM without either of those skills earlier this year (or maybe late last year; I don't remember). Anyway, I ran a standard DSlash War build (with SY, of course), an SoS Rit with Curse support, an ST rit, and an N/Rt RoJ Smiter with Prots. Not sure on the henchies, but it probably would have been a monk or two, an interrupter, and one or two extra AoE nukers. Tactics were fairly simple, just ball everything up (you can pull the dwarves a long way and there are plenty of walls so it's not difficult) and nuke.
When I got to Duncan (and realised I forgot Swap) it took me a couple of attempts to figure out what I could do. Stay on the upper level. Kill the group of spirits as quickly as you can, then throw as much damage at Duncan as you can. When the spirits have come back and are pumping out threatening levels of damage, withdraw. Heal up, recharge, do whatever else you need to and repeat. If your builds/tactics are good enough you'll be able to start whacking away at Duncan again before he's regained all the health you took off. It took a while, but it got the job done (and considering you're only in NM and have 7 heroes, it should be even easier). I'd recommend taking some DP removal just to be sure/if you stuff up.
PS: There are possibly easier/better ways to do it than I've described; that's just my experience.
When I got to Duncan (and realised I forgot Swap) it took me a couple of attempts to figure out what I could do. Stay on the upper level. Kill the group of spirits as quickly as you can, then throw as much damage at Duncan as you can. When the spirits have come back and are pumping out threatening levels of damage, withdraw. Heal up, recharge, do whatever else you need to and repeat. If your builds/tactics are good enough you'll be able to start whacking away at Duncan again before he's regained all the health you took off. It took a while, but it got the job done (and considering you're only in NM and have 7 heroes, it should be even easier). I'd recommend taking some DP removal just to be sure/if you stuff up.
PS: There are possibly easier/better ways to do it than I've described; that's just my experience.
akelarumi
like posted before, SoS and swap is an easy fool proof way of killing duncan. He can be killed head on by any hero team with enough heal/prot to withstand the damage and enough damage to take him down. If you can't make it next week (the 15th) he is the Zaishen bounty and it should be relativly easy to find a pug to do it in HM.
Maya Cerestiez
Last few times I've done duncan with heroes only I've just went straight for him ignoring spirits. By flagging a ST shelter rit outside Duncan aggro you should be able to survive if you have effective healers. Sometimes when Duncan runs away you'll have to flag heroes back to you so they don't catch aggro of second spirit group. Bring Signet of Spirits on a hero too.
Xenomortis
Use Spirits; all the important Rit skills are Factions ones so just take a Signet of Spirits Rit with some Restoration heals and a SoGM Communing Rit and you're sorted.
Then just flag your heroes (Rits should be on their own flag) with the MM back (make sure his minion skills are disabled) and go fight him. You want to angle your attack so you only fight one set of spirits; the ledge to the right of Duncan is a good place to come from; setup your heroes just round the corner. If you start to take too much pressure you can simply back off; Duncan doesn't normally chase too far. If you see Spirit Rift cast, it's advised that you move the flag of whatever hero it's targeting (the bright blue orb is very easy to spot), that thing hurts, especially if it hits the 4 heroes that are flagged together.
And then buy Nightfall and curse yourself for not doing so earlier.
And never take a melee hero.
Then just flag your heroes (Rits should be on their own flag) with the MM back (make sure his minion skills are disabled) and go fight him. You want to angle your attack so you only fight one set of spirits; the ledge to the right of Duncan is a good place to come from; setup your heroes just round the corner. If you start to take too much pressure you can simply back off; Duncan doesn't normally chase too far. If you see Spirit Rift cast, it's advised that you move the flag of whatever hero it's targeting (the bright blue orb is very easy to spot), that thing hurts, especially if it hits the 4 heroes that are flagged together.
And then buy Nightfall and curse yourself for not doing so earlier.
And never take a melee hero.
Sinny survivor
When I did duncan i also forgot to take swap, and sat in the to the right of the stairs, and just had my two mesmer's nuke him down(slowly) while the rest of the group dealt with the spirits behind. I think I had protective spirirt cast on me and stood mid way up the stairs to tank all the Spirit rifts/whatever or that duncan just kept running back. This was in HM aswell.
Xenomortis
Where I'm standing is approximately where I recommend fighting Duncan.
The group of spirits that pop up on the other side of him shouldn't spawn unless you or your heroes get too close to him so avoid melee combat.
If you're still struggling then you can safely attack Duncan at longbow/flatbow range. He won't aggro and you can wear him down that way (the spirits shouldn't overwhelm you). However I don't know if a single ranger or even two can do out-damage his natural regen plus what he gets from Recuperation.
If you choose to fight him at spell-casting range (so he will aggro) then it's important to stay spread out; you must use the hero flags.
Edit: I had Swap but I didn't use it; I accidentally had Gwen in the fourth hero slot instead of the third so I couldn't flag her by herself.
The group of spirits that pop up on the other side of him shouldn't spawn unless you or your heroes get too close to him so avoid melee combat.
If you're still struggling then you can safely attack Duncan at longbow/flatbow range. He won't aggro and you can wear him down that way (the spirits shouldn't overwhelm you). However I don't know if a single ranger or even two can do out-damage his natural regen plus what he gets from Recuperation.
If you choose to fight him at spell-casting range (so he will aggro) then it's important to stay spread out; you must use the hero flags.
Edit: I had Swap but I didn't use it; I accidentally had Gwen in the fourth hero slot instead of the third so I couldn't flag her by herself.
Sube
Thank you for the replies everyone.
I have made progress...but still can't beat him.
I am running:
Me as SoS Spirit Spammer
BHA Ranger with interrupts and conditions
Interrupt Hench
Healer Monk
Protection Hench
Command Paragon
Rit Lord with Consume Soul
Ele Nuker
This was working well, the constant interrupts kept us safe and his health was slowly going down. Getting rid of the melee hero was a big help too.
But then when a fresh group of spirits spawn he sneaks through a few spirit rifts and henchies start to die
After a little while the dp builds up and there is no chance.
I might try replacing the Ele with a power draining Mesmer to stop his spirit rifts, or a RoJ smiter to try and take him down quicker.
I have made progress...but still can't beat him.
I am running:
Me as SoS Spirit Spammer
BHA Ranger with interrupts and conditions
Interrupt Hench
Healer Monk
Protection Hench
Command Paragon
Rit Lord with Consume Soul
Ele Nuker
This was working well, the constant interrupts kept us safe and his health was slowly going down. Getting rid of the melee hero was a big help too.
But then when a fresh group of spirits spawn he sneaks through a few spirit rifts and henchies start to die
I might try replacing the Ele with a power draining Mesmer to stop his spirit rifts, or a RoJ smiter to try and take him down quicker.
Xenomortis
You have a Mes hero (Gwen), give her Panic (prophecies) and some of the other Dom stuff and ditch the henchmen.
And you really need to use the flags to spread your heroes out and you need to focus on moving the flags when Spirit Rift is cast, don't worry about anything else.
And you really need to use the flags to spread your heroes out and you need to focus on moving the flags when Spirit Rift is cast, don't worry about anything else.
Sube
Well I had gwen as a panic mesmer but the ranger hench seems to interrupt better. Either way they both seem to be the first to die!
Man how do you manage to flag them away after you see spirit rift? Its only got a 2 sec casting time ffs!
I can't do it that fast (i am old).
Man how do you manage to flag them away after you see spirit rift? Its only got a 2 sec casting time ffs!
I can't do it that fast (i am old).
Xenomortis
Practice; you get used to moving hero flags. Have them bound to some spare keys on your keyboard if you struggle to click in time.
If you have a Ranger hero then you may be able to give him a flatbow and have him attack outside of Duncan's aggro range. If you give him Burning Arrow (BHA really won't do all that much work, especially if you bring Panic (which is pretty good for the AI)) then you should be able to break through his natural regeneration. It'll be very slow though.
Edit:
Not Burning Arrow, that's Nightfall.
Guess you can use Incendiary Arrows and hope the burning will wear him down enough along with whatever damage you get from the arrows.
If you have a Ranger hero then you may be able to give him a flatbow and have him attack outside of Duncan's aggro range. If you give him Burning Arrow (BHA really won't do all that much work, especially if you bring Panic (which is pretty good for the AI)) then you should be able to break through his natural regeneration. It'll be very slow though.
Edit:
Not Burning Arrow, that's Nightfall.
Guess you can use Incendiary Arrows and hope the burning will wear him down enough along with whatever damage you get from the arrows.
Jk Arrow
You should also be able to fit YMLAD on your SoS bar along with possibly another rupt. That way you can make sure Spirit Rift doesnt get off. When you see your team taking a lot of damage or the spirit group pops up, retreat. You are better off rezzing a hero or two than wiping and having to run all the way back.
Other option is to find someone with Swap. I actually need this on NM for a book so PM me here if you want help.
Other option is to find someone with Swap.
Sube
Holy crap...I finally got him!!!
I think I actually got a bit lucky but this is what worked:
The 2 things that seemed to make the difference were:
1. I focussed on the spirits while I let the heroes work on Duncan.
2. Flag placement - having duncan focus on one hero who could easily be healed.
For whatever reason Duncan didn't seem to be casting at all. He just decided to attack with his wand so then it was just a matter of time. Probably about 10 minutes of me spamming spirits to take down his ones.
Livia and Vekk ran a bit closer to him and he just decided to focus on her. Then the degen + my spirits stealing every now then got him down.
The build was:
Me Ranger/Rit Spirit Spammer
Pyre - BHA + bleeding, poison and interrupts
Gwen - panic mesmer
Ogden - Healer
Livia - Discord Necro + protection (although i dont think she was casting it and the one time she did she died from DD)
Hayda - Buffer/Healer
Vekk - Mind Burn Nuker
Menhlo
Thank you to everyone for your help! Damn I'm happy! I set myself the task of beating this without buying Nightfall
I think I actually got a bit lucky but this is what worked:
The 2 things that seemed to make the difference were:
1. I focussed on the spirits while I let the heroes work on Duncan.
2. Flag placement - having duncan focus on one hero who could easily be healed.
For whatever reason Duncan didn't seem to be casting at all. He just decided to attack with his wand so then it was just a matter of time. Probably about 10 minutes of me spamming spirits to take down his ones.
Livia and Vekk ran a bit closer to him and he just decided to focus on her. Then the degen + my spirits stealing every now then got him down.
The build was:
Me Ranger/Rit Spirit Spammer
Pyre - BHA + bleeding, poison and interrupts
Gwen - panic mesmer
Ogden - Healer
Livia - Discord Necro + protection (although i dont think she was casting it and the one time she did she died from DD)
Hayda - Buffer/Healer
Vekk - Mind Burn Nuker
Menhlo
Thank you to everyone for your help! Damn I'm happy! I set myself the task of beating this without buying Nightfall