Bots in JQ. Pure Incompetence.
Xherken
Tons and tons of bots in JQ. What seems to be entire teams of them. This has been going on for a looooong time. Whats the problem here? Don't give me that crap that they too busy with GW2 that they can't at - least - send a GM down there, its not hard to tell a bot. So much work being put into costume and uselesss crap, not enough works in real issues. I am not impressed.
Missing HB
Agreeing with entire post, especially costumes...Every problem in the game today is mainly due to incompetence and especially lack of answering the community( stillwaiting their stuff about codex arena and fluxes)..
But you know, the costume part isn't entirely their fault...So many people did buy it, whereas i still find it a bit expensive for what it is( check any game with no monthly fee...usually costumes or extra characters are about 0.99 and you get bonus missions for 5.99 or so....)
However, i don't believe that bots in JQ is the main problem due to incompetence.. probably inactivity in whole PvP is the main issue
But you know, the costume part isn't entirely their fault...So many people did buy it, whereas i still find it a bit expensive for what it is( check any game with no monthly fee...usually costumes or extra characters are about 0.99 and you get bonus missions for 5.99 or so....)
However, i don't believe that bots in JQ is the main problem due to incompetence.. probably inactivity in whole PvP is the main issue
makosi
This is a long-term nuisance. They introduced the /report system with a 'botting' feature and I believe Gaile's botwatch wiki page is still open for posting.
It makes playing a chore, though. :|
Mod presence is the way forward.
It makes playing a chore, though. :|
Mod presence is the way forward.
Gwendolyn the Jinx
I prefer MQSC to JQ mainly because of bots & leechers. Sure I can get them TEMPORARILY banned for the next few games (if I can convince the team to report them) but it'd be too late to do anything about it for this round.
betrayal
I don't get why they can't just send a staff to spend a day in JQ. They could probably get rid of 90% of the bots, it's not hard to detect one at all.
chullster
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by betrayal
I don't get why they can't just send a staff to spend a day in JQ. They could probably get rid of 90% of the bots, it's not hard to detect one at all.
|
Abedeus
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by chullster
Because they don't care about GW1, GW2 is the new cash-cow, and they're a business, money comes first.
|
Arduin
How is posting about this on this forum going to help?
Support is over here:
http://www.guildwars.com/support/
Support is over here:
http://www.guildwars.com/support/
Mascu
They really don't care at all...
Even thought this didn't happen in JQ, i recently came across a few bots I had already seen and reported a few months ago, so i build a new list of bots and send the list to NCSOFT's Customer Service and this is what i get:
How's that for "Get off our backs and go play the damn game, ignore those bots, we know they're there but we don't want to do anything about it and they're not doing harm to you..."?
Even thought this didn't happen in JQ, i recently came across a few bots I had already seen and reported a few months ago, so i build a new list of bots and send the list to NCSOFT's Customer Service and this is what i get:
| --Me: |
| Well, months have passed and I once again came across these bots, some of them I had already reported in the case [case-number] when they were botting in Ice Tooth Caves... |
| This time is Augury Rock and a new list of bots along with some already reported(as I already mentioned) and apparently are still botting without punish... |
| Here is the list: |
| 16 bot names here |
| This time, their VERY obvious bot actions begin with entering Augury Rock as Mo/Me, few seconds later they become Mo/W, do a few "stupid" walks and head forward the exit, just so they return to Augury Rock as Mo/Me and begin their routine all over. |
| 5 minutes is all you have to wait in Augury Rock, America, English, D1 to see how obvious this is. |
| One thing I cannot understand is how some of these already reported bots are still going on unpunished? What is the point of reporting if nothing gets done about it? No tool is necessary to see that these are bots... all that's necessary is to see them move and repeat the same movement between characters.... come on... |
| --NCSOFT: |
| Thank you for reporting a potential rules violation. |
| We will use the information you have provided to investigate whether a violation of the rules has occurred. Please let us know if you have any additional problems or questions. |
| Regards, |
| GM Jessica |
| The Guild Wars Support Team |
| --NCSOFT: |
| I reviewed the logs of this incident and could not find a violation. While we do our best to investigate every reported violation, we cannot take action unless we have proof beyond a reasonable doubt. |
| Thanks for your report and please do not hesitate to contact us again! |
| Regards, |
| GM FruitSnake |
| The Guild Wars Support Team |
| --Me: |
| How about showing presence in the outpost instead of reading logs so you can see for yourself the obvious bot activity, i can even tell you what they will do next because EVERY monk with scalp armor does the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. How's that for proof beyond a reasonable doubt? |
| --NCSOFT: |
| First, I want to thank you for your enthusiasm. I know that these kinds of players really ruin the enjoyment of PvP. There is nothing like winning when you've worked really hard for it. Second, I want you to know that we really are trying to find these players and close their accounts. As gamers ourselves we are more than aware of the detriment they bring to the entire gaming community. However, we cannot take action against a player unless we have proof beyond a reasonable doubt as substantiated by the game logs. |
| Please let me know if you need assistance with any other issue. |
| Regards, |
| GM FruitSnake |
| The Guild Wars Support Team |
How's that for "Get off our backs and go play the damn game, ignore those bots, we know they're there but we don't want to do anything about it and they're not doing harm to you..."?
Gill Halendt
I really don't understand why people keep using the costumes as arguments in these cases.
Do you really think that graphics and 3D artists have anything to do with bug fixes, development of playable content... or, even, the enforcement of the RoC?
That said, I agree, something should be done, but please put things into perspective.
Do you really think that graphics and 3D artists have anything to do with bug fixes, development of playable content... or, even, the enforcement of the RoC?
That said, I agree, something should be done, but please put things into perspective.
ruk1a
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by chullster
Because they don't care about GW1, GW2 is the new cash-cow, and they're a business, money comes first.
|
The only reason I can muster up from my imagination for this is that they only hire specific people that they trust to work on their games... and they do care about GW1 if you think otherwise you are just ignorant however they do neglect it nowadays. The unfortunate reality is that JQ and other formats will probably remain total shit until GW2 release or perhaps further. Who knows, I'll not care anymore.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gill Halendt
I really don't understand why people keep using the costumes as arguments in these cases.
Do you really think that graphics and 3D artists have anything to do with bug fixes, development of playable content... or, even, the enforcement of the RoC? |
You also need to take into account that staff might not have anything to do with it, WoW for example has a huge staff and bots run just as rampant in random battle grounds as they do in JQ in GW. Every game has bots and they are extremely annoying yes but the lower population of GW makes them stand out more than usual.
Gill Halendt
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ruk1a
Lol, right? I'm sure those graphic designers are highly competent with C++ etc.
|
Programmers are there for a reason, and while artists do what they do, programmers work on the code... and likely GMs do something about the bots.
Still, costumes are no way subtracting resources to either content development, bugfixes or even game surveillance.
Missing HB
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gill Halendt
Even if they do, it's not their role.
Programmers are there for a reason, and while artists do what they do, programmers work on the code... and likely GMs do something about the bots. Still, costumes are no way subtracting resources to either content development, bugfixes or even game surveillance. |
You can't deny the fact that noone ever noticed bug fixes they're doing( whereas known ones still happen) and that costumes are today a nice substitute and excuse to introduce " not so good " content...
Besides bots, i could quote the inactivity problem in PvP tthat's happening for months today and that NEVER got any try of fixing..
Gill Halendt
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Missing HB
His point was that updates we get aren't dealing at all with game problems, whereas it's supposed to be the point of updates
|
Not getting costumes doesn't equate getting more bugfixes or better vigilance over botters: likely the guys creating the costumes aren't even enabled to do anything about this issue.
The problem is not the "work put into costumes", but rather the perceived absence of any control over this kind violations, which is the job of GMs.
The two things are not related in any way tough.
Quaker
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by chullster
Because they don't care about GW1, GW2 is the new cash-cow, and they're a business, money comes first.
|
Next time, if you are going to QQ, say something more sensible like "Mercenary Heroes is the new cash cow".
Spiritz
On one side i feel that anet`s proof beyond doubt is better than a report which anet bans straight away.
For eg - some idiot is messing around in pvp , say he is pretending to be a bot , several players for diff reasons decide to report him and probably just stick bot on the report.
That player would get an instant ban for wrong reasons - now think how you`d feel if it were you.
Bots are bad enough without a few thousand innocent players getting banned by accident - and no1 can honestly say they have never seen someone in an outpost bragging they reported xxxx as being bot because they were annoying players - i have several times.
Bots and gold sellers need to be wiped out again - specially the gold sellers who often bugger off directly after spamming their gold selling website.
For eg - some idiot is messing around in pvp , say he is pretending to be a bot , several players for diff reasons decide to report him and probably just stick bot on the report.
That player would get an instant ban for wrong reasons - now think how you`d feel if it were you.
Bots are bad enough without a few thousand innocent players getting banned by accident - and no1 can honestly say they have never seen someone in an outpost bragging they reported xxxx as being bot because they were annoying players - i have several times.
Bots and gold sellers need to be wiped out again - specially the gold sellers who often bugger off directly after spamming their gold selling website.
dsielschott
I do agree that bots do need to be banned but in JQ I often see people sayin that so and so is a bot because they are doing dumb things over and over and over again with a basic JQ build..... .then when they complain the "bot" talks to them and proves they are a real person that is just playing the game their own way.....
sooooooooo when you say you are watchin entire teams of bots in JQ i hesitate to believe you based off of my own experience....
people like you are to quick to jump to the "bot" title and just because you think its a bot doesnt mean that it really is.....
That being said I do know there are bots and I do know that it is an issue.... but just not THE issue.... actually the botter is better than the leecher IMO....
sooooooooo when you say you are watchin entire teams of bots in JQ i hesitate to believe you based off of my own experience....
people like you are to quick to jump to the "bot" title and just because you think its a bot doesnt mean that it really is.....
That being said I do know there are bots and I do know that it is an issue.... but just not THE issue.... actually the botter is better than the leecher IMO....
ErrantVenture
Part of the problem, I think, is that Arenanet GMs are required by their own policy to have some sort of evidence in the game logs before they can block someone. Simply observing some sort of bot-like behavior (however obvious it may be from observation that the player is botting) simply isn't enough for them to terminate the account.
The other part of the problem is that there's STILL no detection system in the client for the most powerful botting tools: GWCA and its offshoots. GWCA is still completely viable (though now it is available only privately and by purchase instead of publicly) because there was never any method for actually detecting the use of GWCA. Even the big banwave a year and a half ago was done COMPLETELY on the basis of player reports and GM observation of popular botting spots. What's even worse is that there's a new, completely free and public botting API that's identical to GWCA available. The only difference is that the new API was coded in AutoIt instead of C++ so it's moderately less powerful. Arenanet won't stop the botting the problem until they implement a way to detect third parties injecting commands into the packet queue and in six and a half years they've never shown the willingness or the capability to do this.
The other part of the problem is that there's STILL no detection system in the client for the most powerful botting tools: GWCA and its offshoots. GWCA is still completely viable (though now it is available only privately and by purchase instead of publicly) because there was never any method for actually detecting the use of GWCA. Even the big banwave a year and a half ago was done COMPLETELY on the basis of player reports and GM observation of popular botting spots. What's even worse is that there's a new, completely free and public botting API that's identical to GWCA available. The only difference is that the new API was coded in AutoIt instead of C++ so it's moderately less powerful. Arenanet won't stop the botting the problem until they implement a way to detect third parties injecting commands into the packet queue and in six and a half years they've never shown the willingness or the capability to do this.
Ka Tet
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mascu
They really don't care at all...
Even thought this didn't happen in JQ, i recently came across a few bots I had already seen and reported a few months ago, so i build a new list of bots and send the list to NCSOFT's Customer Service and this is what i get:
How's that for "Get off our backs and go play the damn game, ignore those bots, we know they're there but we don't want to do anything about it and they're not doing harm to you..."? |
Chrisworld
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ka Tet
ahahaha This is great. You can tell that they are familiar with the game by the reference to PvP in regards to Augury Rock bots. Gogo quality support team.
|
Swingline
JQ is the travesty that is Anets incompetence at dealing with player abuse of the system they created. Players are manipulating GvG matches for the strongboxes they put in to get new players into GvG, bots run rampant in JQ for zkeys and they think banning 3000 accounts was enough? Doesn't look like anet even cares to win the battle against RMTs.
Wyndy
Just keep sending your reports in about JQ. I do it a lot in FA for chronic leechers and it sometimes gets a suspension for a few days. Sometimes it actually makes them go away!
Fluffy Kittens
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Chrisworld
I noticed somehing fishy about that too. "gamers ourselves...." statement makes it more sad. Looks like GM Fruitsnake is just an employee collecting the paycheck. If you don't even know what Augury rock is then you didnt play your own companies debut game title, who the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO hired this guy?
|
That has nothing to do with this topic
Anyway, JQ bots were there for a long time and will prolly stay there for a long time... even if they get banned or Anet comes up with an anti-bot system players will just press "enter battle" and go afk, doesn't take them much time.
Sync bots in HA and Codex are way bigger problem but theres pretty much nothing Anet can do against that
Missing HB
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole
Sync bots in HA and Codex are way bigger problem but theres pretty much nothing Anet can do against that
|
The diference to me if people abusing effictively the format rather than those not... For me, i don't find such a diference between a bomber bot in JQ or not... even, i usually do find bots easier to deal with ....
wilebill
Been in JQ a lot recently. Seen no bots, just a lot of dumb players with rotten builds, including me. Non problem.
FoxBat
The same bots play 24/7, regardless of what fun they are having. Must humans don't. Ergo you're less likely to encounter the bot hordes when humans are actually logging, and more likely to get entire teams of bots when no-one else is playing.
Lithril Ashwalker
thats strange because i take a screenshot of the violator in JQ(both k&L) and i also screenshot the party window after dragging it to the center, i demand the logs be checked and they get back with me with the people who actually had violations with botting.
IE: 3 of the accounts you posted were closed due to a violation, thank yo ufor keeping guild wars a nice place to play*blahblahblah*
i do this almost everyday, they even give me the names back
the report feature takes longer tbh, ur better off making a direct ticket
[email protected]
Subject line: violation;botter check
attach the screenshots with whats going on and then insist on checking the entire party if not just a targeted enemy for botting.
then send- they ALWAYS answer back if not within 24 hours
i personally guarantee they will take action this way, just report requires more to autoban, its about 30 reports for an autoban, then the devs check the logs and choose to keep ban or remove it depending. each player has 50 reports per 24 hours available so dont use them up and dont abuse them.
iv gotten over 30 accounts closed due to botting alone based on this method and without a doubt most have a jumbled up character name thinking they cant be reported after creation(i have news for ya, i type 400 words per minute blindfolded)
IE: 3 of the accounts you posted were closed due to a violation, thank yo ufor keeping guild wars a nice place to play*blahblahblah*
i do this almost everyday, they even give me the names back
the report feature takes longer tbh, ur better off making a direct ticket
[email protected]
Subject line: violation;botter check
attach the screenshots with whats going on and then insist on checking the entire party if not just a targeted enemy for botting.
then send- they ALWAYS answer back if not within 24 hours
i personally guarantee they will take action this way, just report requires more to autoban, its about 30 reports for an autoban, then the devs check the logs and choose to keep ban or remove it depending. each player has 50 reports per 24 hours available so dont use them up and dont abuse them.
iv gotten over 30 accounts closed due to botting alone based on this method and without a doubt most have a jumbled up character name thinking they cant be reported after creation(i have news for ya, i type 400 words per minute blindfolded)
Verene
I swear, I'm so sick of people going "but they make COSTUMES!" when whining about other stuff. Costumes are not made by the Live Team. The people making costumes do not necessarily know how to deal with bug reports or bots or content creation. They're artists, not programmers. They're paid to draw and make 3D models.
This is very, very simple. Some bugs are larger than others. Some are easier to fix than others. If they have a choice between a handful of small bugs that will take a half hour each to fix, or a pretty big one that people have been butting their heads against with no luck for ages, which do you think they'll decide to do first? Seriously, now. The ones that are quick fixes will be prioritized before they dedicate more time and resources to the ones that are proving difficult/impossible.
"Not so good" content is subjective, not to mention the fact that they are greatly limited by the fact that they're working with a game that was created - and hence coded - over six years ago. They're limited to what the aging engine can do.
PvP inactivity really isn't something they can fix, that's up to the players. How would you expect them to be able to fix that? They can't force people to play.
Support is handled by NCSoft, not ArenaNet.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Missing HB
His point was that updates we get aren't dealing at all with game problems, whereas it's supposed to be the point of updates....
You can't deny the fact that noone ever noticed bug fixes they're doing( whereas known ones still happen) and that costumes are today a nice substitute and excuse to introduce " not so good " content... Besides bots, i could quote the inactivity problem in PvP tthat's happening for months today and that NEVER got any try of fixing.. |
"Not so good" content is subjective, not to mention the fact that they are greatly limited by the fact that they're working with a game that was created - and hence coded - over six years ago. They're limited to what the aging engine can do.
PvP inactivity really isn't something they can fix, that's up to the players. How would you expect them to be able to fix that? They can't force people to play.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Chrisworld
I noticed somehing fishy about that too. "gamers ourselves...." statement makes it more sad. Looks like GM Fruitsnake is just an employee collecting the paycheck. If you don't even know what Augury rock is then you didnt play your own companies debut game title, who the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO hired this guy?
|
Missing HB
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Verene
PvP inactivity really isn't something they can fix, that's up to the players. How would you expect them to be able to fix that? They can't force people to play.
|
Verene
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Missing HB
Why do they remove heroes from PvP while they're supposed to help players to team and play PvP when they want to ?... I'm pretty sure a lot of players would stop complaining about so called " elitism " and inactivity if we were able to pick 7 henchs and go in...
|
It really wouldn't change the elitist attitude nor the complaints about it at all, because then you'll just find people snubbing those who have to fill their party with h/h.
ErrantVenture
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Missing HB
Why do they remove heroes from PvP while they're supposed to help players to team and play PvP when they want to ?... I'm pretty sure a lot of players would stop complaining about so called " elitism " and inactivity if we were able to pick 7 henchs and go in...
|
ruk1a
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gill Halendt
Even if they do, it's not their role.
Programmers are there for a reason, and while artists do what they do, programmers work on the code... and likely GMs do something about the bots. Still, costumes are no way subtracting resources to either content development, bugfixes or even game surveillance. |
Damian Greenthumb
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by wilebill
Been in JQ a lot recently. Seen no bots, just a lot of dumb players with rotten builds, including me. Non problem.
|
I've been hearing lots of "bot" talk in JQ but asided from the usual leach here and there, I havent seen them. The last thing a crap player with a crap build is going to do is speak up, especially if they are new to pvp, say due to the Zaishen Quests...
----------
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ErrantVenture
You're obviously too inept to actually recognize a bot or have not been playing the arena enough. There are absurd numbers of (horrendously poorly coded) bots in JQ.
|
Lithril Ashwalker
oh youve seen them...some have names like gfdsa gaghf
and usually run the same damn build...usually on the lux side.
and usually run the same damn build...usually on the lux side.
RedDog91
The issue becomes that many people who complain about bots aren't able to tell the difference between a bad player and a bot.
Botters need to be banned, but not at the expense of innocent players who just happen to not understand the game format. And this sentiment is why ANET wants to make sure, without ANY doubt that the user is indeed a bot before they ban them.
If you can't understand this, you obviously are just too butt-hurt about the situation to think clearly.
Botters need to be banned, but not at the expense of innocent players who just happen to not understand the game format. And this sentiment is why ANET wants to make sure, without ANY doubt that the user is indeed a bot before they ban them.
If you can't understand this, you obviously are just too butt-hurt about the situation to think clearly.
Mascu
So if you see a W/A rushing to you in JQ and before reaching to you, the warrior uses Healing Signet followed by Shadow Refuge and continues rushing to you, you run away, the warrior keeps following you non-stop, the skills get recharged, he uses both skills again, with full HP, you need pro skills to tell if this is a bot or not? Or be ingame for 48-60 months or have been gaming online since there was an "online" to be able to tell the difference between a bot and a player? Come on...
Chocolate_Prayers
Could have been a troll. Also, there's no real way of telling someone is a bot from a screenshot so sending screenies in to NCSoft or whoever in a report (or using /report ingame) will yield little results since it requires human resources to investigate these reports; Which as we know NCSoft and ANet seem to lack for this purpose.
Premium Unleaded
You know what the worse thing about these bots in JQ is? They are utterly, utterly retarded compared to the older bunch of bots. At least the old ones were scripted to go cap the nearest ranger shrines, whereas these lot just sit in the middle area being wasters.
Damian Greenthumb
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Lithril Ashwalker
oh youve seen them...some have names like gfdsa gaghf
and usually run the same damn build...usually on the lux side. |
----------
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mascu
So if you see a W/A rushing to you in JQ and before reaching to you, the warrior uses Healing Signet followed by Shadow Refuge and continues rushing to you, you run away, the warrior keeps following you non-stop, the skills get recharged, he uses both skills again, with full HP, you need pro skills to tell if this is a bot or not?...
|
engage players in JQ or FA. I concentrate on winning not tangling with players, bots or otherwise.
I'm not saying there are no bots in PvP or PvE. There are. I'm saying in PvP folks are wayyyy to quick to call "Bot!" There are not nearly as many as are claimed and sadly, reported. PvE, yup I see farming bots in certain outposts. Been to ToPK lately? Now that was infested, not anymore. The bot patrol does what it can and we do what we can. Just don't be so quick to call "Bot!" at someone whose keeping quiet in chat and runs a cookie cutter build and plays like crap. Report if it makes you feel better, or just focus on YOUR game and play on.
Mascu
I also concentrate on winning/focusing on the objectives of JQ and that doesn't change the reality that more than once I've seen a warrior rushing to me while protecting a shrine as a monk with all 5 NPCs with full health.
And focusing on winning doesn't change the fact that there are many bots out there making tons of zkeys and beating the "game log system" used to identify this bot activity.
Putting others down by saying that because we/they haven't spend that many months in-game or haven't played since "online" gaming started (and therefore indirectly calling us/them stupid) does not help this thread and does not change the fact either that bots do exist.
They exist even if some people decide not to believe it, even if some people have not seen them in action.
And focusing on winning doesn't change the fact that there are many bots out there making tons of zkeys and beating the "game log system" used to identify this bot activity.
Putting others down by saying that because we/they haven't spend that many months in-game or haven't played since "online" gaming started (and therefore indirectly calling us/them stupid) does not help this thread and does not change the fact either that bots do exist.
They exist even if some people decide not to believe it, even if some people have not seen them in action.