Sabway/Endgame

1. I'm currently trying out a Earth Shaker Warrior build, and am constructing a Sabway necro team as well. However, I just need to know - is Sabway worth it?

I see the value of it, and it says that it can even be used for vanquishing in HM. But I haven't fully tried it out yet. What exactly is the best way to use it? How do I anticipate if skills need to be switched out in certain areas? Are the items and runes vital to the build?

2. I would call myself a decent player, but HM and post-game missions and soloing ridiculous mobs has always seemed a bit beyond me. If the whole Sabway-thing doesn't work out, are there any other builds that are better?

There has always been a bit of a disconnect, between my skill level and that of the elite players. How do you (or people in general) get that good?

Just looking for help here.

Sabway is outdated, run something that abuses 7 heroes/mesmers like http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Player_Support .

Sabway may be outdated but still works fine. Back before Anet started spoon feeding titles and we had 3 heroes to choose from sabway was a godsend. I vanqed the whole game and got gwamm using sabway straight out of the box. I played bha ranger with a couple of pve skills (pi and evas) and a utility bar. Only a handful of times did I actually change a skill or two on sabway or my bar (except for certain mish that required other heroes). Bottom line is sabway was fine then as it would be now but there are even more efficient solutions now that 7 heroes are available. Shit there were prolly players running things just fine with just henchies back in the day lol. /rant

Only a minor portion of success in HM can be contributed to player skill. If you know how to pull a group by itself, gather them on a choke point, and call key enemies (like monks), you are ready for the majority of HM content. Other useful techniques include microing some heroes, particuarly pre-casting spirits/enchantments and more effectively using hero aoe skills (Panic, Meteor Shower, etc). But, by and large that is not necessary. The only exceptions are the elite areas, which require extensive micro and careful aggro control.

The larger factor of HM success is the hero builds. I remember first trying to vanq with some random hero builds I made myself - it was slow and painful. Using the meta builds or some modified version of them makes it so much easier it's not even funny. I recommend looking at some of the posted hero builds here or on pvx and running something similar- at least until you get more experienced. Sabway is pretty old, but still effective. Mesmers, ritualist, and necro based teams are currently popular and easy to use. Once you get a good team, you can use it with only minor modifications for 99% of HM missions and vqs.

For runes/weapons, generally a +2 attribute on the headpiece is fine. For casters, a +20 energy or +60 hp staff works decently. There are a lot of cheap greens (DoA and ToPK has a bunch) with those stats. For melee, you'll generally find a useable weapon as a drop during your travels. You don't have to fully mod it. Note that these aren't the ideal setups - you'll probably want better runes and 40/40 sets if you plan on vanqing everything to save some time over the long run.

For modifications to the hero builds, they can be organized generally into five categories: 1) more anti-melee or anti-caster 2) more or less defense 3) more aoe or single target damage 4) more condition or hex removal 5) special circumstances. The first four are pretty self-explanatory, just having the proper mix of defense and offense. The last one is for the more unique fighting situations. For instance, for Slavers you want Frozen Soil. For the Secret Lair of the Snowmen, you want small damage packet protection like Shield of Absorption and massive aoe damage. For the second to last NF mission, at the end bosses you'll probably want heavy anti-melee skills. And so on. If you are having trouble with an area, try to isolate the enemy weakness and build around that.

Bonus tip- for low man areas, summon skills are exceptionally powerful. Minion masters, asura summons, spirits, and stone summons help a bunch.

I run modified Sabway, very modified. The healer is pure Sabway except I found room for a Spirit of Recovery. Two spirits better than one, but if you have another source of spirits in your heroes you can just stay with vanilla Sab healer.

The mm is OANEUstX82A0OqohuAmoegHQjA which will strike everyone as noob because of the flesh golem. I put this together to do Battle for Lion's Arch but it works good everywhere. Wells help in narrow areas, but also out in open. And Olias stays alive! Minions start off slow, but soon you will have a horde of Shambling Horrors running in to confuse the AI.

Master of Whispers, Curses Sabway usually gets replaced by Gwen running a Panic and Interrupt build with some energy management. Rest of heroes, up to you.

I put together what works for me; and it changes around a lot depending on what I am up against. Another Mesmer in the mix is often helpful. As is an E/N orders hero. Razah with some protective spirits can save the day and the healer N/Rit will love him.

Rarely use Master of Whispers. E/N works much better. For melee classes, a hero P/W with Anthem of Fury build can be just what you need; if combined with a Dervish hero running Avatar of Melandru build to take care of conditions, something like:

OgGlUJpqasys4cd5vy31b2V7Sflu zealous scythe helpful

Curses Necro might be helpful, don't use him much myself because he died a lot. E/N orders build dies some, but not nearly so much.

Gear? Usually what you can manage to dredge out of your storage or mules, or just anything really. Some exceptions, like zealous scythe on dervishes; really works noticeably better. Most of the gear requirements are dotting the i's and crossing the t's. You can manage without the ideal gear usually.

As people before me have said, it isn't really the players that are good, they just created good hero builds (or ripped it off of pvx). That aside, you will be fine running sabway in hard mode/missions/whatever else you want. It is one of those cookie-cutter builds that work pretty much everywhere.

Next, you can't really know if some skills need to be switched out before you try an area. The best thing you can do is try and prepare for the worst, but don't go overkill on it and bring 3 healers or something crazy. If you go into an area and find you are always hexed and die a lot, bring more hex removal.

A good way, but sightly expensive way, to improve your heroes is equip them with good equipment, as well as rune their armor. This will help so much.

Next, as you are a warrior, I wouldn't go through the trouble of bringing an E/N orders hero as most of your hero damage is from spells. But a http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Mo/any_PvE_Smiter to boost your damage by about 25 damage per hit, is worth it, in addition to sabway.

Finally, if you are having trouble with sabway, you can always run http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Player_Support as a user above me said.

Hope this helped.

I used a variation of Sabway (I was necro myself, so I dropped one) to get legendary guardian/vanquisher back when the hero limit was 3. What I like most about it, is how it thought me the basics of hero synergy and the concept of loading a couple of support skills on bars that have place for it.

Sabway will help you do whatever you want to do, but also try changing stuff around a bit to see if you can find something in particular that you like or don't like. Building your own hero team and figuring out where to make changes (even if it's based on someone else's) is jolly good fun ^^

Quote: Originally Posted by Doune

1. I'm currently trying out a Earth Shaker Warrior build, and am constructing a Sabway necro team as well. However, I just need to know - is Sabway worth it?

2. I would call myself a decent player, but HM and post-game missions and soloing ridiculous mobs has always seemed a bit beyond me. If the whole Sabway-thing doesn't work out, are there any other builds that are better. Being a warrior player myself(I currently run an Axe build but have had a lot of fun with the Earthshaker setup as well), I can give you a few insights.

When I want to have fun, I change up my lineup, especially now with 7 hero parties available. This can lead to some chaos and failures, but that's why I do it...to experiment and to have some fun. lol

When I want to get something done and have little chance of failure, I do the following:

3 Necro Sabway(With MM using Aura of Lich OR Jagged Bones...really your choice, but AoL is awesome after the first group goes down and that horde of minions pops up all at once.

Add in the 2 Rits for Spiritway.(Minions and Spirits = mayhem for groups attacking you.)

Then I fill in as needed based on what i am doing. I keep these set up for interchange: Searing Flames EL, Panic ME, a Support PARA(build this out as what works best for you), an Unyielding Aura Monk, a Splinter Barrager Ranger(w or w/o pet really up to you and the situation).

Now if you don't want minions(cause in some places Minions can be a bad thing), I sometimes convert my MM to a BiP type of support.

I also use some odd builds, like an A/R Silencing Interrupter, a Shock and Awe Me/EL, and others...they are fun but sometimes can cause me some havok...lol

Just some tips from one Warrior player to another. Some may agree, some may disgaree, but so far it works pretty well for me... I don't solo farm or anything like that, but these have worked well for the Elite stuff like DoA or the Titan Missions and such as well as Vanquishing and Missions in HM.

Best thing to do is, have fun...find something that works good for you, and tweak it as needed.

Be glad to share some of these, but writing from work, no access to my builds ATM. I will post in here if anyone would like to see them. Just let me know which ones, or I can post the codes for them all.

Thank you for all the advice. Now, a couple more questions:

1. For cheap greens, who or what are DoA and ToPK?

2. I also have a working Savannah Heat El and a SoS Channelling Rit. Can I just stack them in as well? Or should I bring along another Warrior, or Monk, or something like that?

3. ANet is handing out titles? I must have missed the memo, because I'd like to get some of those as well. Like many, I'm trying to squeeze out as many points in my HoM, but it doesn't look like I'll get upwards of 20.

Like before, any and all advice is welcomed.

Quote: Originally Posted by Doune Thank you for all the advice. Now, a couple more questions:

1. For cheap greens, who or what are DoA and ToPK?

Domain of Anguish and Tomb of Primeval Kings. The greens that drop from there sell for like 1-5k and can outfit an entire team on the cheap.

2. I also have a working Savannah Heat El and a SoS Channelling Rit. Can I just stack them in as well? Or should I bring along another Warrior, or Monk, or something like that?

Invoke Lightning > SH because the air magic line offers armor pen. HM mob armor makes fire magic look like complete shit

3. ANet is handing out titles? I must have missed the memo, because I'd like to get some of those as well. Like many, I'm trying to squeeze out as many points in my HoM, but it doesn't look like I'll get upwards of 20.

People just say they are handing out titles because of the massive amount of power creep introduced with HM and the 7 hero update.

Like before, any and all advice is welcomed. The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 12 characters.

Thorfinnr, if you could post all those other builds than the Sabway that would be excellent. Swingline, what do you mean by my message being too short? And also, where would you suggest abusing this power creep and what are the easiest titles to get first?

Quote: Originally Posted by Doune

Thorfinnr, if you could post all those other builds than the Sabway that would be excellent. Swingline, what do you mean by my message being too short? And also, where would you suggest abusing this power creep and what are the easiest titles to get first? This forum has a post character limit,that is the message you get if your post is less than 12 characters.

Quote: Originally Posted by Doune Thorfinnr, if you could post all those other builds than the Sabway that would be excellent. Swingline, what do you mean by my message being too short? And also, where would you suggest abusing this power creep and what are the easiest titles to get first? 2 Rits for Spiritway:

Razah : OAOj0MgMJPO7z23czFtzcGNnJA

Xandra : OACjEyiM5QXTlTVTMTXMbiTODTA

These are pretty typical Spiritway Rits.

Searing Flames EL : OgNDoMz/M4CkBdbs20KGADZC

I turn off his res and micro-manage it as needed. Its really for emergencies only. The Sabway and Spiritway take care of most res needed.

Panic ME : OQBDArwjN0gpnpTGkDyAL/LA

Straight Panic from PvX Wiki. Be warned, she will get targeted by some AI as they seem to HATE Panic...lol so I actually stay close to her in case she gets mobbed.

Support PARA : OQCkUqmxpiuDQ2CXhX3cYNs7WeD

I use this on Hayda, and she does really well with it.

Splinter Barrager Ranger : OggkchZcoIqEGziRF4jBiRvF2xFD

Again, I micro his res.

Unyielding Aura Monk : OwUTMsGDXqBcj4ioL67JDoHghAA

here are those odd-ball builds. I have fun with them, and they work pretty well...but they do get me into trouble from time-to-time...so use at your own mirth/risk/peril...lol

A/R Silencing Interrupter : OwJjYNZ8IT6PLiuSHGqGfh9WghA

Shock and Awe Me/EL : OQZDA4oJLp+SoKuSqgCxdPA

Sometimes he echos something dumb...but for the most part he knocks a lot of things around...

Some people may not like some of these, but they seem to work for me, and I have fun with them...and that's the point...have fun...definately check out some of the HoM guides to help you work out some points.

IGN: Thorfinnr Sleggja...feel free to shoot me a msg if you catch me online, be glad to exchange other thoughts and ideas.

Sabway is an excellent core for most HM areas. It allows a little more forgiveness when you want to try out something new.

It's usually a good idea, as seen from many posts here, to run some kind of nuke along with Sabway. SoS/SoGM, Ele's, FC Mes Nuke/Shut down, etc. As long as some of the mobs are dying, you'll be in good hands.

Also Sabway is a good choice for any physical considering your core heroes are going to be squishy and susceptible to spikes until their minions can mitigate a lot of the aggro.

Quote: Originally Posted by Lumpen

Sabway is an excellent core for most HM areas. It allows a little more forgiveness when you want to try out something new.

It's usually a good idea, as seen from many posts here, to run some kind of nuke along with Sabway. SoS/SoGM, Ele's, FC Mes Nuke/Shut down, etc. As long as some of the mobs are dying, you'll be in good hands.

Also Sabway is a good choice for any physical considering your core heroes are going to be squishy and susceptible to spikes until their minions can mitigate a lot of the aggro. I disagree, Sabway is outdated. It was designed assuming there would only be three hero spots. Nowadays it is much better to simply start from scratch and design a team around the fact that we can bring seven heroes.

Quote: Originally Posted by Anaraky

Try Jacks RoJway for wars build. Probably best hero build for most of game. You jump grab aggro and they blow up.

ST Shelter rit. Mesmers all great if fights go past that.

Learn to flag. Honestly, AOE damage is one of biggest threats and can negated simply by flagging before fighting. Triangle or diamond shaped flaggin is all you need.
Spirits/minions up front to tank. Healers/Prots in back.

1. Sabway works for HM, but it relies heavily on minions to keep the team alive. Also, with the changes to AoTL and Esurge, there are better team builds out there.


2. There is a thread in the hero's section of guru that has some good builds:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/d...0490961p5.html