Heroes special abilities and quirks

I never pay enough attention to my heroes to really pay attention, but I have noticed that some heroes either have (or used to have) special abilities or even preferences in play style.

Can people list the ones they know since they aren't on wiki?

What I've noticed:
Dunkoro doesn't like to smite, Ogden does.
Zhed is a lousy fire elementalist, Sousuke is fair at it though.
Margrid, people say they've seen her do a little teleport/shadowstep?
Jora, does Z-rank style emotes in battle.
Master of Whispers, unmanageable and slow as discord minions, but rocks as Jagged Bones MM.
Norgu seems not as an enthusiastic interrupter as Gwen



This is all anecdotal and I don't use all my heroes often so it's incomplete. So thoughts, or am I just nuts?

I think it's all make-believe. I have used dunkuro as smite on one character and ogden on another one of my toons, but I haven't seen any difference between them (I hardly take smite monks though). I think people intend to give the heroes of the same profession some more individual qualities, to give them some more 'personality' if you will.
For exemple, I use my Zhed as an earth ele with wards where it's useful, because I find it suits him more than a fire/air/water build (don't ask me why, I just think it fits his appearance).
Maybe heroes of different professions (e.g. necro vs mesmer) behave differently with the same skills. I believe all the caster behave the same, though.

On a side note, I do think that individual traits would have been nice on the heroes to make them more unique. So far the only one with a unique trait is Razah, and he's pretty cool for it. Vekk having an asura summon or something, Jora changing to bear form (in a balanced way), ... stuff like that would have been sweet^^

I haven't really thought about it before, but I guess my olias is the one always healing, masters doing mm, and livia cursing things...but switching them up shouldn't matter too much.

Olias is the MM, Master is more curses and if running a healer then Livia is my chick.
Ogden should never ever be allowed to heal or prot. Never. Ever.
Gwen is always my rupter, while Norgu is always illusion.
Can't say I have noticed anything for eles though but they're only used when necessary.

Goren is a natural with a hammer

Norgu Likes to take care of physical mob (could be coz he gets laughed at for his belly)

Gwen is all about domination (dont tell my wife plz)

Mow is definitely a curser, you should ear the stuff he says while hexing foes

Meloni is secretly in love with Koss; if only he could stop drinking...

Zhed was born to run an earthbuild and Sousoke fire.

Anton and Zenmai are just happy to hold on to my extra runes/insignia

You are just nuts.

Anet has confirmed previously that all monks for example use the exact same AI, they are just different skins is all.

You are not alone however, there are many who perpetuate such silly urban myths.

No, you are not nuts. I have noticed similar things.

I would not put anything past Margrid!

I think what they come with is a suggestion as to their personality.

Objective tests do not duplicate the real world of combat and things happen differently there.

A further thorny question involves pets as they behave in real world combat versus dps output in objective tests, but we will not go there.

This quote is taken from the wiki page about MOX
"As heroes were used in PvP at the time, M.O.X. was released exclusively for PvE due to its size and hidden weapons."

HIDDEN?

...MOX does not wield a weapon. Equip any melee weapon to him and he runs up and punches people. Equip any ranged weapon and he punches the air and the arrow/projectile shoots out from his fists.

his size was too large

i find what the op as true. xD but i also see some else weird. on all my gwens i have chaos storm skill. i find gwens on some girls love to use it more then others who dont like using it or dont use it at all. o.o also find tah heals better then dunk. sous better at fire then zhed and gwen at interrupting then norgu.

The only one I've noticed any kind of peculiar behavior is Zhed. I'll never take him in my party unless I HAVE to. Many times when I did take him along, he would (while set to "guard") run off through the mob I'm fighting to a mob well out of aggro range and attack it - never again!

He tries to use Trample and realises he doesn't have it only after he enters melee.

There are no quirks or special abilities - all heroes with the same primary class behave identical. Mercenary heroes incluced. Different behaviour results solely from different build, different weapon, different party position, different combat setting.

Whenever I've had to switch them around (like, for example, taking Dunkoro as smiter instead of the usual Tahlkora), the heroes of the same profession have always acted exactly the same.

....made me laugh abit inside

Some of it could be AI with weapons, but I'd like to think it's not that buggy. My Zhed refuses to use fire nuker spells, but he's equipped with an energy storage staff. Does that mean it's ER or GTFO?

It's all AI. Heroes use an identical AI to HM mob AI. It's all the same. Any differences are merely perspective and wanting to believe they are different.

Do you honestly believe, with the troubles of doing the AI coding, that they would change the AI for different heroes/henchmen? :/ It's the same.

Now on that terms, sometimes it may seem like patterns emerge - I seem to get an awfully lot of 'Show me the money' inscriptions when I take gwen, for example. It's just a matter of the human brain attempting to see a pattern or reason when there isn't, but it's funny to think on nonetheless.

The consensus is split 50/50.

However each of the heroes were added at different times, came with different default spells and weapons, and we know that henchmen are different. Stefan is more aggressive than Little Thom, and so on.

We all know that the Anet team can be a little "quirky". Why does everyone use Livia and Olias as rit healers but never MoW?

Feel free to play around and experiment to prove or disprove, but a lot of people are noticing.

The one X-factor is weapon types. Try to see if your paras will fight with a sword, your smiting monk will heal, etc.

No, Stefan and Little Thom are identical. They run on an identical AI - the difference is skills. Monsters added at different times do not have a different AI. Heroes added at different times do not have a different time.

I run MoW as a BiP rit healer. Olias is used as an MM because he's generally the first necro obtained, and that is usually used as an MM. Cursing took popularity later, and thus MoW, the second, became the curser (he starts with cursing skills, too). People set up runes for heroes, and then they don't change them. Thus, when the rit healer became popular, Livia was the one. It's also a subconscious 'female' thing to have a female healer.

Yes, I have run heroes with different weapons. I run spear sets on my mesmers generally with +10 vs demons shields, depending on the need, and I've run Ogden as a healer plenty of times, in addition to a smiting monk, depending on what's needed. Since Ogden is the third monk, and you don't run 3 healing monks, he was relegated to a smiter in most roles - not to mention, he's a dwarf, and it's a subconscious thing for people to associate dwarves with fighters, damagers, and not necessarily healers.

I'm quite experienced with heroes and henchmen, the AI is one of my specialties as I've experimented with the AI to try and get desired results, and I'm completely confident about this. Stop trying to see things where things aren't. (if you want examples from others, check out other hero threads - particularly the DoA and glint's, as people tried to run other professions as mesmers with perfect success beyond the loss of fast casting - I've also ran a ranger as a mesmer interrupter). The AI is entirely dependent on what skills are equipped and what weapons are being used, and targeting to a lesser extent is based around profession (ie, using BiP on casters regardless of weapon, and on melees only with a caster weapon).

Mercenaries also have an identical AI - there is no mercenary that plays differently from a hero. People subconsciously apply personalities to the heroes they have, and people generally give the same personalities, because we each play with the same people following the same storyline. We all get similar impressions from them. It's a mental thing, no more.

For a fun perspective, it can be entertaining, though. For a role play perspective, also. If you enjoy envisioning Livia as a pro healer, then go for it - if you want to envision her as a sadistic curser, that's also fine, because the AI is the same. Thus, play them as you feel like playing them, and envision them however you'd like, the game's intended to have fun.

Hesitant to jump into this discussion, but I can't resist asking what authorities anyone has for their position? Your own personal experience cannot amount to anything more than anecdotal observations, so I'm wondering what the basis is for "definitely this" or "definitely that"?

yes two-leggs

i've been thinking this for years. i think anet is holding out on us just to see us suffer.

I know that everything he has pointed out so far is definitely false. I've used Zhed as a fire nuker, an air nuker, and an ER ele, all with an energy storage staff, with no issues. The only difference is the bonuses and staff damage.

If someone can bring conclusive proof that the AI is different.. then sure. Otherwise, I'm quite confident it's the same AI. I'll even volunteer to go run tests tonight - putting heroes with identical builds, runes, and etc, and seeing if there is a difference in professions or heroes on the Isle of the Nameless.

Also -
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hero_behavior

Discusses it all. Probably the most conclusive is that there is no documented wiki notes for heroes having different reactions. After all this time, that'd be one thing that would be noted.

Call it what you want, and it may just be personal observation/bias...but I noted several things when I have been playing...and I will even include a henchmen dynamic that has cost me. Enjoy!

1. I made the mistake of running Cynn and Mehnlo together. I know for a fact that I was over half dead, and as soon as Cynn took a hit, Mehnlo interrupted the heal he was casting(wether on me or not I have no way of knowing), targeted Cynn and healed her.

2. I have also made the mistake of running Koss and Melonni together. I have seen Koss break off an attack, and run half way across a map to help Melonni who had ran off on her own and aggro'd a 2nd group of Mandragor.

Conclusion...romance can make the AI act all screwy...lol

3. I have to say, I have ran all 3 EL Heroes as nukers...they all do well...but it just always SEEMS that Souske can work the burn better than the others. I have had great luck with Vekk as an Air EL as well. Seeing those little legs kicked up in the air as he slams his staff on the ground to Lightning Strike the crap outta some enemy is priceless.

4. Olias or Liv work well as MM as I have ran both in that way. I use Liv for my MM in Sab/Spiritway and she's awesome with AotL. As Necro/Rit healer...Olias SEEMED to be more active with his skills than Liv. MoW is a Curser...always and forever...Liv never came close to the way he doled out curses...at least in my OBSERVATIONS that is how it went.

5. I actually set up both Gwen and Norgu as Interrupters, same exact build, and I targeted them on 2 enemy White Mantle Monks in WiK. Gwen wrecked her monk up, and then helped finish off Norgu's...again this was my OBSERVATION, so take that for what its worth.

I agree, ANET says they all use the same basic AI. I have also seen behavior that supports this, granted. But sometimes I just have to think that there may be a "ghost in the machine" that maybe has given these AIs a little flair of personality.

Probable...of course not. That's why i stressed "SEEMED" and "OBSERVATION" above. Not to be rude or anything, just to show I agreed that this could just be how I viewed this activity. Others may see things happen differently.

But from some of the stuff I have seen them do...I just can't say its 100% impossible.

No matter what...its fun...and that's why I play.

And just an aside:

Welcome RegnorVex...good to see a new name with some good experience in MMOs...I have enjoyed reading your other posts.

Enjoy all!

I appreciate the distinction between it 'seems this way' and it 'is this way' - not criticizing you here, don't think that - I'd like the point out that the difference between observations and an actual fact (or the equivalent theory, more so) is that an observation is one instance - because there ARE random variables built into the heroes. They don't always interrupt at exactly the same speeds, etc. And the difference in skills and movement and etc means most observations will tend to have differences. There's random variances in the skills, as there should be, with how the AI's use them. When an AI switches target, it doesn't always target the closest, for example (unless you've called a target). These random variables, along with impressions of characters, and the practice of human's give inanimate objects personalities, means that rumors start.

Regardless, it is all fun and games, and you should play it how you'd like - I totally agree with that observation on vekk + lighting xD

You know you can change his weapon?

Thorfinnr, thanks for the welcome and the kind note! I can't recall a more fun game-forum experience, it's a real pleasure to be part of this community. And I definitely agree with you and Plutoman, it's all fun and games. ;-)

Enough observations can eventually amount to enough data to draw reliable deductions, I'm not criticizing or challenging anyone's personal experience, I have often been tempted to form opinions based on anecdotal experience because of how lopsided my own experience was in fact. But is the nature of randomness that I might roll 32 sevens in a row with my dice, but when you take into account the rolls that everyone in the casino is throwing over a week or two (or maybe even a day), the numbers will eventually reflect a truly random distribution; my short run + the long run = random distribution.

So, for example, if enough players over a long enough period have been able to observe similar behaviors, one could reasonably make certain conclusions. And as one poster has pointed out, no real consensus has emerged (even on wiki) over a very long period of time with plenty of data to sample. So I simply ask what basis there is apart from personal observation for the strong positions being advanced. Have the devs said anything on this topic?

Interesting discussion, whatever the answer. I remember swearing that there was "anti-camping code" in EverQuest ...

As far as I know Arenanet never said anything about this topic. This leads me to the conclusion that there is in fact nothing to say, because there is nothing. In 5 years of hero presence and monthly game updates, there was never a single update or bugfix note about a personality-AI of a certain hero. If there were any personal AI for a single hero, there were bugs or shortcomings as well, and thus resulting bugfixes or enhancements. But there were none. Not a single one.

Every update with the hero AI was global. It either was a global hero AI update or a update of the AI usage of a certain skill. Never was an update connected to a single named hero.

Call me crazy, but Vekk and Ogden always get way behind the rest of the party... it happens all the time...

Short legs?

Its a skill/build thing i am sure.

There r some reasons why some heroes tend to get behind.
Ele's with attunements will stop to recast them.
My N/Rt, who uses healing/defensive spirits, also stops to recast them.
If u or any H/H uses minions, your healer H/H will continue to try heal the minions.
If the minions fall behind so may or will one or more of yer healers.

I agree on this... i also think most problems with heroes are caused by the builds they are using, especially when you have duplicate skills/spells in your team.

Things I know are absolutely true that are not.

General Morgain always rushes ahead causing agro far more than others.
Vek always gets into the middle of melee, so does Dunkaro.
Olias Lags behind until combat then gets far too close and dies.

All of those were caused by the builds I was using but at the time I was convinced it was the AI.

Mind you it is true that my necro character gets far more bows dropping as loot so I used her for farming green bows and it worked very well.

edit I should have added a smiley face as I was joking whatever my perception of the drop rate I am aware its all random.
Can of worms sealed though a few escaped.

"Mind you it is true that my necro character gets far more bows dropping as loot so I used her for farming green bows and it worked very well."

Gremlin, that is opening another can of worms not easily recanned. Do different player classes have different luck? Especially with regard to weapons drop classes?

Looks like it to me. Is there a set of hidden luck factors that get set at character creation? Don't know how it works, but it is there. Sure, the official position is that drops are all just a matter of the dice roll and it doesn't matter who rolls the dice. But that is not my experience.

Oh god.. Drops. Yes, it IS all random. It's all subjective. That's an extremely common misinterpretation. Check out a game like conquerclub.com, where there's rants on how the dice rolls are all rigged up in certain ways.. even though statistics have gone through and proved the opposite. People are still convinced they are biased in some ways towards accounts, towards the time of day, and more. >.<

http://www.lifehack.org/articles/lif...-bad-luck.html

Hehe. There's nothing odd about the random rolls for weapons. Each mob has a drop table with a percentage chance - if there's something odd, chances are, that's because the drop table for that mob might be a bit odd - or your luck is just bad/good. I can't imagine you've gone and farmed the same mob hundreds of times with different classes to mark differences.. and if there were, we'd certainly have seen it with Vaettir farming - yet, we haven't.