7Hero Morostav Trail SC

InfamousMyzt

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2007

San Antonio, TX

05 Oct 2011 at 06:18 - 1

I'm attempting to work out a Morostav Trail VQ build. So far my main team has gotten times of about 35-40 minutes. I'm hoping to nail it down to 25-30, so any help with these is appreciated. The current main team will follow.

You: OgcSc5OTOMMMHM4Ovlzk5i8a
MoW: OAhjUwGYoSyBVBoBbhKgDTSTTOA
Olias: OAhjYghsoOWbMm0cyNMHnV1LGA
Norgu: OQhkAoB8AGK0LwKQeGCIJQGQPwFD
Razah: OQBDAqwDKnw0b65wQkB9ggD
Gwen: OQlkAgC8AaeDNY6Z6yBDhMQPYHD
Vekk: OgljgwMopO6QA93ocQLCHIjdMA
Xandra: OACiAyk8gNfcHzw50kaaNdmA

Swapping Xandra out for this E/Mo dropped the run to 32 minutes without cons.
Sousuke: OgNDwcPPP1CaRARLWPqI31VC

The current CONSIDERATIONS for the team would be:
Orders necro, AoE axe or derv.
Anyone's two cents would be amazing.

wilebill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mt Vernon, Ohio

Band of the Hawk

W/Mo

05 Oct 2011 at 11:00 - 2

Well, if it works then good enough. The build for Ranger Assassin is interesting. Been thinking of trying that.

Last time I VQ'd Morostav Trail it was for Zaishen quest. Ran a fairly conventional Ranger beast mastery build. Modified Sabway, Livia healer rit pretty much stock. I had Vampirism on my bar as an extra spirit and because I just like the old fellow.

I left MoW at home. Olias I ran with OANEUstX82A0OqohuAmoegHQjA

which looks noob, but it sure works! Used it for BLA and ever since.

Melonni in third slot, Avatar of Melandru for condition removal. Gwen Panic with usual other interrupt build in 4th. Dunkoro in fifth running some build as a backup healer; I flung it together. As long as Dunko stays alive I don't care.

Jora with the usual Dragon Slash Sun and Moon, Rush, Hamstring; I like to see Jora chop things up!

And lastly Hayda with command build, Anthem of Fury and such; piece of junk spear I picked up somewhere.

I did not time my run. Good thing too, because I got lost couple times. But all the combats were almost like normal mode. Sunreach Warmaker and friends presented no problems. Gwen kept nasty eles in other groups shut down long enough for Jora and my pet to put them down.

You can see my build was heavy on physical damage. What interests me most about your party is that it seems to work without heavy physical damage dealers. Which proves I guess that there is more than one way to do a Morostav run.

My big question is why? I don't remember much in the way of loot. Is it for Kurzick faction? If so, we Luxons got a much better deal with VQ of Mount Qinkai which takes less than 20 minutes usually.

pvp joda

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2006

05 Oct 2011 at 13:40 - 3

this was my first run with the quest active so you can speed up the run to maybe 20 mins if you want

by far the fastest run with heroes for kurzick fraktion
if you understand a bit german you can take a look at this link if you want i can translate it
http://www.wartower.de/forum/showthr...=981070&page=3

The Guildless

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2011

Montreal, Canada

I The Guildless I [LONE]

A/W

05 Oct 2011 at 13:40 - 4

I also looked into doing some 7 heroes MTSC a few months back and ended up with similar times (30-35mins no cons -- I wouldn't call that a SC though). I tried different approaches, from heavy physical to mass e-surge, and the one that got me the most success was a 5 keystone mesmer lineup (I know I know, mercs) with me as an Any/P with the speed boosts (somthing like this). Filling the two last slots with two ST rits or an Emo and a healer monk, things went pretty smoothly when I could get the mobs to stick together. What annoyed me though was the small downtime at the beginning of battle because of Keystone Signet if I did not micro it. Other than than, it was pretty smooth. I got bored trying to find a better way to do it (was contemplating invoke eles next), but I did keep the line up for general PvE'ing with me as a dagger spammer and I love it.

But enough of my story and back to you: I never tried a minion approach and am wondering their impact in your battles. Do they really participate that much? You could get an extra ele in there to deal damage faster. You'd have to find some room somewhere for the healing though.. Or drop the E-Surge mesmer instead (too many interrupts in my opinion - have a look at this thread (mainly the interrupt stacking part) to know why I feel that way). Other than that, looks good. Any considerations about your own build?

InfamousMyzt

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2007

San Antonio, TX

05 Oct 2011 at 17:34 - 5

It's entirely for Kurz faction. I'm currently 5.5million away from GWAMM, so I'm rushing on this a bit. The reason I'm doing it is because I love my alliance, but the one time we tried MTSC it took us an hour and fifty minutes.

To be honest, the minions and I put them down pretty quick. Whenever they group correctly, splinter weapon just tears down the entire group in 3-5 seconds or less. The minions do way more damage with EBsoH on the ground, and they keep the mobs off my caster line, leaving them and I to tank.

So far, I haven't had any problems with my mesmers messing each other up, but I am looking to maybe remove panic or Esurge from the group, partly so I can throw up an orders or extra melee. Then I could use razah as a fourth necro or send him back to rit for occasional SoS.

pvp joda

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2006

05 Oct 2011 at 18:58 - 6

you: ok first of all your bar sucks dmg is ok but promis would be a better solution
MoW: minions suck and just slow a run down if you need meat shields then youre doing something wrong in this area
Olias: wtf are you kidding me? you need a full healer for Morostav trail wtf?
Norgo: ok meta mesmer but without bip not suppirior to a key stoner
Razah: e-surger nice dmg but e-management sucks again
Gwen: meta panik but why would you use a panic mes when there are no realy harmfull casters??
vekk: first bar i like and would try miself
xandra: ok fail st build but a normal st build would be the best solution don't know why it slowed you down so much

the pic shows some heroes i put together not optimum but smooth and fast

you should have at least 3 copies of fall back 4 would be perfect
mfg
joda

chuckles79

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2009

FILA

05 Oct 2011 at 21:05 - 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvp joda

Gwen: meta panik but why would you use a panic mes when there are no realy harmfull casters??
mfg
joda The Wardens of Earth are so hurt to hear you say that.

beamwire

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2011

05 Oct 2011 at 23:52 - 8

pvp_joda, could I get the template codes for your run setup, maybe the equipment used too?

Thanks!

InfamousMyzt

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2007

San Antonio, TX

06 Oct 2011 at 02:27 - 9

You don't have to insult people to get your ideas heard.

pvp joda

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2006

06 Oct 2011 at 09:57 - 10

@beamwire
OAhjUwGW4SxMKgVVZMDTTOSTXMA N/Rit
OAljUwGm5SxMKgbhVV1Y7YsY+YA N/P
OAljUwGm5SxMKgbhVV1Y+YsY7YA N/P
OQRCAswDP9HY62BV1paee6B Mes/N
OQRCAswDP9HY62BV1paee6B Mes/N
OQRCAcwEP1PgpzOQV1UVeGCI Mes/N
OACiAyk8Y9echToJy1ZiNvYA R/Mö

all heroes use sup runes 40/40 on all if you can afford it i was to lazy so they have just crapy stuff but sup runes are not that expensive so i would equipt them with some

@infamousmyzt sry my intention wasn't to insult you, sry bout that

@chuckles do you know how many wardens of earth are on this map? there are 2 at the nec boss group, some at the warrior boss and one boss in the middle of the sea the nec boss group shouldn't be a problem the only point where people might get in trouble is with the warrior. easyest solution would be to flag your heroes a bit behind you and you take all the agro and stick to the left wall. if all meles are dead the casters stand no chance

if you can get the hm quest i would take it there will spawn 6 more bosses ( 8 but 2 who would usualy be there vanish ) and the ministerial npcs do realy help

Spiritz

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

DMFC

06 Oct 2011 at 11:23 - 11

Wilebill - ive managed with a guildie ( he was running a normal necro build ) and a variation of 7hero discord ( dropped the non panic mes hero ) to do unwaking waters vq and we managed 14 mins and no cons - mq we always seemed to avg out on 16/17 mins but saying that the only difference is unwaking is almost a straight line ( curled tho ) but mq can mean a few detours.

pvp joda

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2006

06 Oct 2011 at 11:55 - 12

if you want to go for luxon points silent surf would be the best option it gives 17k fraktion in 19 mins which is 130 fraktions/min more than a fast 7h MqSc with 14 mins

if you can take the hm quest "cleansing the silent surf" i think it would make the run much easier ( change the hero builds if you do ) and would give more fraktion

always remember to kill the quest enemies at last so the npcs won't vanish before youre done

InStars

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2011

Latvia

Tempus Omnia Revelat [TOR]

E/A

06 Oct 2011 at 13:44 - 13

I just run modified discordway with a friend, and we get really good times in Morostav Trial - here is our best. (25mins - no cons)

You could run 7H with good times too (possible under 30mins)

pvp joda

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2006

07 Oct 2011 at 08:01 - 14

InStars

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2011

Latvia

Tempus Omnia Revelat [TOR]

E/A

07 Oct 2011 at 10:57 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvp joda

@instars you know that my pic schows a run with age 24 with 7h do you...? but i'm amazed to see that you got 25 mins with minions and you even died the only point which makes no sense to me is why did you acept both shrine bonuses it just gives a +3 regen for you so no real benefit Yea, it's amazing to see 24min 7H run, I took the +3 regen since its cheap (only 100g) and it's a reasonable benefit - I mean, I can be bleeding and still regen, since I play ele, extra survivability is always a good thing

And I died, at splinter-barragers, because I kinda solo-rushed too much while my team was still busy with warriors

InfamousMyzt

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2007

San Antonio, TX

07 Oct 2011 at 16:28 - 16

Glad to see all the input. Thanks guys. I'll be trying different team combinations ranging from all caster to all melee over the next week or so.

untitled2005

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

22 Oct 2011 at 23:55 - 17

Just picked up MT vanq for Kurz title. I really like PvP Joda's concept of keystone mes. I tweaked a little bit. With merc pack, I find 2 E-surge bots, 1 Ineptitude, 2 Keystones, a BiP and a ST prot Rit work the best. This particular run took 21 min. I was surprised because most of my runs took 23min. Maybe further tweaks and some luck, you can get under 20min with 7heroes.

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InfamousMyzt

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2007

San Antonio, TX

29 Oct 2011 at 00:25 - 18

Looks like joda and InStars won this one. I don't think there's a good AP build for rangers, so I doubt I can even try the single target spam.

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

29 Oct 2011 at 01:42 - 19

The area is easy enough that most decent builds would be able to complete it easily.

InfamousMyzt

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2007

San Antonio, TX

29 Oct 2011 at 03:55 - 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

The area is easy enough that most decent builds would be able to complete it easily. It's about speed, not how to complete it, mate.

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

29 Oct 2011 at 04:04 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfamousMyzt

It's about speed, not how to complete it, mate. And speed depends on the player familiarity of the area + player skill much more than the build.

untitled2005

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

29 Oct 2011 at 15:29 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu View Post

And speed depends on the player familiarity of the area + player skill much more than the build. I beg to differ. We are talking about MTSC for Savior of the Kurzicks title, not just one-time vanq. You need to do the vanq MT HM 250 times in order to go from Rank 1 to Rank 12. So build matters a lot. Most balanced builds can get you slightly under 30 min, but an optimized build can get you very close to 20 min, so that saves you almost 10min per run, and try to multiply that by 250. That's more than 41 hrs of playing time that you could save by investing a little time to tweak your heroes.

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

29 Oct 2011 at 18:54 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by untitled2005 View Post

I beg to differ. We are talking about MTSC for Savior of the Kurzicks title, not just one-time vanq. You need to do the vanq MT HM 250 times in order to go from Rank 1 to Rank 12. So build matters a lot. Most balanced builds can get you slightly under 30 min, but an optimized build can get you very close to 20 min, so that saves you almost 10min per run, and try to multiply that by 250. That's more than 41 hrs of playing time that you could save by investing a little time to tweak your heroes. I still consider that someone who is familiar with the patrol patterns and area would vanquish it a lot faster than someone who is not and tends to double/triple aggro everything. If we are only considering the set of good decent builds, then player skills/area familiarity would impact the times, more than the slight differences between those builds.

If a build has alot offense (i.e. not much defense) then one has to rely more on skills and proper pulling to get the best times, because you only have a limited number of skill slots in your team. On the other hand, if a build has too much defense then you can c-space more but you also kill slower. In the end, as long as the build has decent offense and defense, it is the player skill and area familiarity that makes the differences in the times.

Players tend to over emphasize build over player skill and area familiarity.

untitled2005

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2005

29 Oct 2011 at 19:59 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

I still consider that someone who is familiar with the patrol patterns and area would vanquish it a lot faster than someone who is not and tends to double/triple aggro everything. If we are only considering the set of good decent builds, then player skills/area familiarity would impact the times, more than the slight differences between those builds.

If a build has alot offense (i.e. not much defense) then one has to rely more on skills and proper pulling to get the best times, because you only have a limited number of skill slots in your team. On the other hand, if a build has too much defense then you can c-space more but you also kill slower. In the end, as long as the build has decent offense and defense, it is the player skill and area familiarity that makes the differences in the times.

Players tend to over emphasize build over player skill and area familiarity.
I am not say that familiarity with the area and player build are not important per se. They are just taken for granted in the discussion of MTSC. Even the least experienced player will remember every patrol, every pop-up and even every rock if he does MTSC on a regular basis. BTW, if you have to pull or flag your heroes at all anywhere in MTSC (no matter what your character's profession is), you really need another hero build. As for player build, AP caller is the default for most professions. You just need to spam it nonstop.

I think you have to try a few dozen MTSCs before you realize the importance of hero builds. Try it 20 times, you will understand what we are talking about here.