sent in a ticket to support linking to the requests on reverting the norn elites based on changes to titles and speedbooking which made the titles easier to do, they claimed they would monitor the wiki page and conclude based on the responses given on the page itself.
any thoughts? - could get more groups going
Revert Ursan, Raven, and volfen Blessing
Lithril Ashwalker
mage767
The norn elites, particularly Ursan, was the reason more people could complete elite areas (FOW, DOA, etc) before the SF-builds came into existence. Still, it has a number of problems: purely C123 (C-space, skills 1-2-3) based, takes longer to complete areas, and its usage dumbs player attention and makes the game even more boring, especially with cons activated. Therfore, bringing these blessings back to their original forms is not encouraged.
Plus, once the nerf-hammer hits something, it is barely reverted to the original form.
Plus, once the nerf-hammer hits something, it is barely reverted to the original form.
Outerworld
Why bother reverting them?
Bright Star Shine
I wouldn't ask for it, but I'm damn sure that if they decide to do it, I'd go back in time and faceroll a couple of times just for the lulz of it... 
Cause it was kind of funny^^
Cause it was kind of funny^^
Katastroff
Are you in any way related to Soulfire Ninja?
/Notssigned
We have normal and hard mode already, no need to bring back dumb mode
/Notssigned
We have normal and hard mode already, no need to bring back dumb mode
Atro
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Katastroff
Are you in any way related to Soulfire Ninja?
/Notssigned We have super easy and easy mode already, no need to bring back dumb mode |
Venganza
I am gonna send in a ticket to not revert, and have armies of guildies do the same.
crazy daggerfighter
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mage767
purely C123 (C-space, skills 1-2-3) based
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Ursan was nerfed cuz it was brainless.. imo, nerf dwg farms
Prestige
They should make those elites be actual forms (so we can transform in a volfen, an ursan, etc).
dark_slayer
Im down for some facerolling.
Tal L
/signed
time to bring ecto price back to 20 - 100k
time to bring ecto price back to 20 - 100k
WarcryOfTruth
I didn't know those skills needed changing, they're still powerful, only a little weaker.
Lithril Ashwalker
i see the fowsc guys doing the same, all u do is have a tank call a target and u as a 100b/vos mash 123456 and hit one attack....how "dumb is that"
it wasn't NERFED for the easiness of it as i recall it was because as a lower rank u couldn't get in a group which the dev team wanted more group play, and now that its easy to rank up with the speed-booking and other things...how is this NOT any different than other stupid builds...a frig-in ranger Mesmer and monk use SF as an elite..how is it not any dumber than that?
your reasoning is illogical for the "dumbness" Katastroffl.
Venganza why not have a reason to NOT revert, thats why i had this thread made to see
it wasn't NERFED for the easiness of it as i recall it was because as a lower rank u couldn't get in a group which the dev team wanted more group play, and now that its easy to rank up with the speed-booking and other things...how is this NOT any different than other stupid builds...a frig-in ranger Mesmer and monk use SF as an elite..how is it not any dumber than that?
your reasoning is illogical for the "dumbness" Katastroffl.
Venganza why not have a reason to NOT revert, thats why i had this thread made to see
WarcryOfTruth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lithril Ashwalker
Venganza why not have a reason to NOT revert, thats why i had this thread made to see
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So yeah, I don't think it needs a fix, but if it changes, hope the masses are happy.
gremlin
I like the idea of the Norn skills being used more and for that I am looking beyond this game.
Revert the skills ? nope that would disappoint me, they made them more fun so you can run with them as an alternative skill set without being ott.
I would have liked 8 skills for each form but no matter.
One of the things I look for in a game is one where every player cannot achieve everything.
Games should be fun they should also take skill, sadly most if not all the elite areas of the game can be achieved.
I hoped for a return to sanity with hard mode but consumables messed that up, seven heroes is great fun but also makes the whole game easier.
We are almost at the point where a harder mode is needed but the sequel is nearly here so it doesn't matter to me that much.
Revert the skills ? nope that would disappoint me, they made them more fun so you can run with them as an alternative skill set without being ott.
I would have liked 8 skills for each form but no matter.
One of the things I look for in a game is one where every player cannot achieve everything.
Games should be fun they should also take skill, sadly most if not all the elite areas of the game can be achieved.
I hoped for a return to sanity with hard mode but consumables messed that up, seven heroes is great fun but also makes the whole game easier.
We are almost at the point where a harder mode is needed but the sequel is nearly here so it doesn't matter to me that much.
wilebill
/notsigned only because of ursan. I saw no reason to foul up Raven and Wolfen which could have been left alone. This was pure sloppiness on the part of anet.
Whenever I think of how great GW 2 is going to be, I think of how great GW 1 has been and how quickly that greatness got nailed in the head by thoughtless use of the nerf bat.
Whenever I think of how great GW 2 is going to be, I think of how great GW 1 has been and how quickly that greatness got nailed in the head by thoughtless use of the nerf bat.
cosyfiep
do people use raven or wolfen???? (before or after the nerf????)....ursan is fine the way it is, the others could use a buff.
Eragon Selene
Unlike others im in favor of this and heres why.......
One reason I do not play this game much anymore is the lack of team play in elite areas. Very few play the game these days unlike years past when Ursan was nerded.
These says unless you can show a large stack of summoning stones proving you have cleared UW 100 times no one will take you on the team. The elite players wont team new people.
Peolpe say Ursan dumbs the game..........I say SF dumbs the game. The crushed that with a nerf and everyone cried so hard the Anet fixed it. Not back to the original state but damn close. SF has done more harm to basic play of GW then any other skill in the game. It puts huge seperation between SC teams and those who know how to tank using SF and those who dont or are trying to learn.
Atleast Ursan makes it so people of all skill level and character class can play together.
Normlay the masses who cry "omg thats a dumb skill it ruins the game" are the same people who are on teams doing UW sc's in 15-20min. No Ursan team can come close to that. So whats the harm in letting other people enjoy the elite areas again?
I miss the days when you could do DoA in a few hours with a group of your frind and not spend 1 hour just to get a team together to fail half way through like you do today.
signed, I think it will bring back some life and players to GW prior to GW2 release.
One reason I do not play this game much anymore is the lack of team play in elite areas. Very few play the game these days unlike years past when Ursan was nerded.
These says unless you can show a large stack of summoning stones proving you have cleared UW 100 times no one will take you on the team. The elite players wont team new people.
Peolpe say Ursan dumbs the game..........I say SF dumbs the game. The crushed that with a nerf and everyone cried so hard the Anet fixed it. Not back to the original state but damn close. SF has done more harm to basic play of GW then any other skill in the game. It puts huge seperation between SC teams and those who know how to tank using SF and those who dont or are trying to learn.
Atleast Ursan makes it so people of all skill level and character class can play together.
Normlay the masses who cry "omg thats a dumb skill it ruins the game" are the same people who are on teams doing UW sc's in 15-20min. No Ursan team can come close to that. So whats the harm in letting other people enjoy the elite areas again?
I miss the days when you could do DoA in a few hours with a group of your frind and not spend 1 hour just to get a team together to fail half way through like you do today.
signed, I think it will bring back some life and players to GW prior to GW2 release.
Old but new
Even though this will be erased for no reason... I have to agree with the above poster..Sc,ers did not like the fact that anyone could do what they can do.. and thus control the market. The rich control the world.. be it real or digital...... it has always been like that. Ursan leveled the playing field, and people did not like it. No wonder why most people left this game.
Turkey Baster
The best argument is above and exactly what I was thinking. Ursan was easy, but after being in a speed clear guild for a short time I heard the comment, "Why not make a sin, they can do every speed clear?" The truth is I have a sin and use it for personal purposes mainly, not in teams. I was discouraged by the lack of versatility. This was a response to me bringing up let's run a manly spike which at the least includes more than one profession.
I think Ursan should be the old way for any norn dungeon at the minimum, all dungeons for a good standing point, and then I'm not quite sure about the other places. They're still rit, mes, sin, ele, but you can't argue with the fact that sins dominate the dungeons and the majority won't spend the time to set heroes up and play through the dungeon. They take a good chunk of time in HM even with a completely balanced human team and the rewards aren't worth it.
I say leave a broken skill as is in a broken expansion and let it not influence anything else. I want to see a the least common profession being accepted into HM dungeon groups.
I think Ursan should be the old way for any norn dungeon at the minimum, all dungeons for a good standing point, and then I'm not quite sure about the other places. They're still rit, mes, sin, ele, but you can't argue with the fact that sins dominate the dungeons and the majority won't spend the time to set heroes up and play through the dungeon. They take a good chunk of time in HM even with a completely balanced human team and the rewards aren't worth it.
I say leave a broken skill as is in a broken expansion and let it not influence anything else. I want to see a the least common profession being accepted into HM dungeon groups.
Horus Moonlight
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eragon Selene
Unlike others im in favor of this and heres why.......
One reason I do not play this game much anymore is the lack of team play in elite areas. Very few play the game these days unlike years past when Ursan was nerded. These says unless you can show a large stack of summoning stones proving you have cleared UW 100 times no one will take you on the team. The elite players wont team new people. Peolpe say Ursan dumbs the game..........I say SF dumbs the game. The crushed that with a nerf and everyone cried so hard the Anet fixed it. Not back to the original state but damn close. SF has done more harm to basic play of GW then any other skill in the game. It puts huge seperation between SC teams and those who know how to tank using SF and those who dont or are trying to learn. Atleast Ursan makes it so people of all skill level and character class can play together. Normlay the masses who cry "omg thats a dumb skill it ruins the game" are the same people who are on teams doing UW sc's in 15-20min. No Ursan team can come close to that. So whats the harm in letting other people enjoy the elite areas again? I miss the days when you could do DoA in a few hours with a group of your frind and not spend 1 hour just to get a team together to fail half way through like you do today. signed, I think it will bring back some life and players to GW prior to GW2 release. |
Honestly what makes you think these same "show stones" idiots won't expect the same thing if Ursan has a redux? What makes you think they won't want "proof" that you can roll your face along a keyboard? As long as there are these kinds of people in the game, there will always be this kind of pseudo-separation between the "noobs" and the "elite".
There are many builds that can tackle elite areas of GW currently, its just the masses you are referring to refuse to try them or have some level of expectation from you. I honestly have no idea how you can possibly think DoA is hard to PUG currently with brain-dead-easy builds like Frostway.
Ursan will not fix anything. It will just add another avenue to steamroll content and another reason for players to QQ about the shitty state of PUGs.
Honestly, your entire argument is invalidated by the metagame.
Eragon Selene
I never said players left this game ONLY due to the Ursan nerf...........it pissed a few off yes. But I agree people leave as a game ages.
A few more things to ponder......Ursan groups actualy Required 2-3 monks to do something, its a rarely used skill these days called "healing". I heal FOWSC's and its almost boaring. A group runs through FoW in 20min and the monk just tags a long for a small heal here or there. Or maybe bail someone out when have a tool on your team who grab unessessary agro.
Ursan was no faster then todays builds and people who wish to steam roll FoW in 20min will still used 100b. Fow took us 1hr in Ursan to roll through all quests as a group......no SF sins (shadow form was nefed then).
I have always argued this.............Im 100% fine with Ursan staying nerfed, but smash Shadow Form then. Why should SF be the only elite skill left.
They nerfed Ursan
Brought back SF
Then kill 600/Smite (pissed me off more then Ursan)
I miss 600/Smite dungen runs. 600/Smite took 10 times the skill it does to run around and tank with a SF sin.
"Roll your face on the keyboad"..........Shadow Form takes the same 3 key strokes, only you dont need to be healed.
A few more things to ponder......Ursan groups actualy Required 2-3 monks to do something, its a rarely used skill these days called "healing". I heal FOWSC's and its almost boaring. A group runs through FoW in 20min and the monk just tags a long for a small heal here or there. Or maybe bail someone out when have a tool on your team who grab unessessary agro.
Ursan was no faster then todays builds and people who wish to steam roll FoW in 20min will still used 100b. Fow took us 1hr in Ursan to roll through all quests as a group......no SF sins (shadow form was nefed then).
I have always argued this.............Im 100% fine with Ursan staying nerfed, but smash Shadow Form then. Why should SF be the only elite skill left.
They nerfed Ursan
Brought back SF
Then kill 600/Smite (pissed me off more then Ursan)
I miss 600/Smite dungen runs. 600/Smite took 10 times the skill it does to run around and tank with a SF sin.
"Roll your face on the keyboad"..........Shadow Form takes the same 3 key strokes, only you dont need to be healed.
Soulfire Ninja
/signed. I've beaten UW with a non-perma Assassin and I was so happy because I really don't like permas. However, I agree with the topic of reverting those elite skills.
Gill Halendt
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Horus Moonlight
Players leave as a game ages. Players leave when nerfs are done. This was not something unique to Ursan.
Honestly what makes you think these same "show stones" idiots won't expect the same thing if Ursan has a redux? What makes you think they won't want "proof" that you can roll your face along a keyboard? As long as there are these kinds of people in the game, there will always be this kind of pseudo-separation between the "noobs" and the "elite". There are many builds that can tackle elite areas of GW currently, its just the masses you are referring to refuse to try them or have some level of expectation from you. I honestly have no idea how you can possibly think DoA is hard to PUG currently with brain-dead-easy builds like Frostway. Ursan will not fix anything. It will just add another avenue to steamroll content and another reason for players to QQ about the shitty state of PUGs. Honestly, your entire argument is invalidated by the metagame. |
Revert Ursan...? No, just... no.
The game is broken enough as it is, and has been for ages now. No reason to pulverize a broken thing any further.
cormac ap dunn
Make them more functional? Absolutely! Revert them? No thank you. The skills were so broken at that point that it made SF in its previous state look like Frenzy. I am inclined to say, that these elites have potential, but to add more game breaking single minded farmers would just make the already elitist structure that's in place worse. Best thing to happen to Ursan was its nerfing. I really don't think we can handle more Chaos Glove and Obby armored teenage boys with "my epeen is so huge" attitudes. Change the functionality a bit, now that I'm all for.
Xenomortis
They're broken skills that should be nerfed into the ground. If ANet encouraged their use then they have no ****ing clue what their game is about.
Vanway
/ not signed. its really not that hard to finish doa or fowsc with a pug, uw is slighty harder. if you cant play dwg or eoe for fowsc, your clinically retarded.
Shayne Hawke
I thought this was a game with ten professions, and not three. Why again would we revert the functionalities of skills that almost completely made the professions indistinguishable from one another at higher levels of content?
Mireles
/notsigned
Not about to give back a reason to people to complain that they need a title to play.... the only thing old ursan was good for was killing build creativity and turn the game into a single skill bar game. It let sucky people be sucky together and actually be able to get something done in a elite area with 0 coordination.... making just about everything valuable out of those elite areas spiral down in price.
And if you think SC-ers are the "richest" people that control the market you are sadly mistaken.
Not about to give back a reason to people to complain that they need a title to play.... the only thing old ursan was good for was killing build creativity and turn the game into a single skill bar game. It let sucky people be sucky together and actually be able to get something done in a elite area with 0 coordination.... making just about everything valuable out of those elite areas spiral down in price.
And if you think SC-ers are the "richest" people that control the market you are sadly mistaken.
The Drunkard
Tbh I don't see the point of bringing back ursan. One of the main reasons so many people used the skill because it dumbed down the need for coordinated groups. You didn't have rangers, mesmers, or eles in groups because they offered no synergy to the meta and damaged the success of the group. However, with the newly buffed profs and soon to be buffed profs, the less-used classes are starting to become popular in pugs. You only need a panic mesmer to match the shutdown potential of ursan, or a few VoS dervs to match the damage packets of U-Rage. I much rather see Anet changing the skills of useless classes and redesigning the disaster that people refer to as Hard Mode for pugs to play in, than bring back a build that was only used by the inept and stubborn.
As far as wolfen/raven blessing goes, the bar change hurts the player more than it helps. For those skills to even see use (which they rarely did before they were nerfed), they would have to be buffed to the point where it outclasses ursan.
/notsigned
As far as wolfen/raven blessing goes, the bar change hurts the player more than it helps. For those skills to even see use (which they rarely did before they were nerfed), they would have to be buffed to the point where it outclasses ursan.
/notsigned
MithranArkanere
This thread can be only answered with two emotes:
/point
/laugh
I'm sorry if you think it's harsh, but I'm afraid is the truth.
The reasons that made the devs change these skills are still there, and reverting them won't change that.
They are already powerful as they are.
/point
/laugh
I'm sorry if you think it's harsh, but I'm afraid is the truth.
The reasons that made the devs change these skills are still there, and reverting them won't change that.
They are already powerful as they are.
chuckles79
Speaking as someone who missed all the Ursan rage (went on a poorly advised hiatus around that time), even I don't want to see it reinstated...permanently.
Instead of having GvG and HA weekends that 2% of the gaming populace will participate and only .2% of the populace will enjoy, why not have retro weekend events. I would love an un-nerf for pve weekend event.
EoE, Ursan, OoV, heck even SF should be invited.
I even have a good reason why they should do it. As a recent post pointed out, the minutes attached to Favor of the Gods is starting to decrease as more people max out their titles.
It wasn't all that long ago that KoBD still was just that...now my parents both have MGHSoRM and are two holiday events away from GWAMM.
But the most important reason, it would be fun. For those of us who never got to abuse those skills, we'll get to try it out. For those who remember the good ol' days, you get to abuse button mashing your way through end-game material once in a while.
What do you think?
Instead of having GvG and HA weekends that 2% of the gaming populace will participate and only .2% of the populace will enjoy, why not have retro weekend events. I would love an un-nerf for pve weekend event.
EoE, Ursan, OoV, heck even SF should be invited.
I even have a good reason why they should do it. As a recent post pointed out, the minutes attached to Favor of the Gods is starting to decrease as more people max out their titles.
It wasn't all that long ago that KoBD still was just that...now my parents both have MGHSoRM and are two holiday events away from GWAMM.
But the most important reason, it would be fun. For those of us who never got to abuse those skills, we'll get to try it out. For those who remember the good ol' days, you get to abuse button mashing your way through end-game material once in a while.
What do you think?
The Drunkard
Quote:
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Originally Posted by chuckles79
What do you think?
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chuckles79
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Drunkard
It's been suggested before and didn't receive much positive feedback.(http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/h...ighlight=retro)
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Would you see the weekend abused to farm ectos and other hard to find goodies...most likely.
However anyone who has a desire to farm ectos needs to simply create a Sprit Spam build and go kill stuff in the UW.
I definitely would only want this to happen twice, three times a year max.
Because in the next 6-12 months GW2 will finally be birthed, and your 20 stacks of ectos will be worth buttkiss.
So one, maybe two weekends of pre-nerf madness in PvE....bring it on.
Ramei Arashi
I was glad to see Shadow Form nerfed. I was finally able to get on a team that beat UW after SF nerfed.
Zenzai
This. Powerful skills are Powerful.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
This thread can be only answered with two emotes:
/point /laugh I'm sorry if you think it's harsh, but I'm afraid is the truth. The reasons that made the devs change these skills are still there, and reverting them won't change that. They are already powerful as they are. |
Lishy
AntarA
Not that this is relevant but If I were to revert something, I would change the way they implemented the 8 hero system. What was the point of Embark Beach if you have 8 heroes to play with. Granted, if you haven't unlocked heroes yet, then you could search for other players. From what I can tell, they didn't boost players teaming up but pushed them farther away (Besides Zaishen VQ which was added).
This is the reason why I support Speed Clears; because it's the fact that at least players join up to complete a common goal. I like the ability to use 8 heroes (especially when some players can be worse than heroes, sad to say) but the fun and friendships you can build from teaming up is worth far more than some heroes.
This is the reason why I support Speed Clears; because it's the fact that at least players join up to complete a common goal. I like the ability to use 8 heroes (especially when some players can be worse than heroes, sad to say) but the fun and friendships you can build from teaming up is worth far more than some heroes.
rb.widow
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by chuckles79
Speaking as someone who missed all the Ursan rage (went on a poorly advised hiatus around that time), even I don't want to see it reinstated...permanently.
Instead of having GvG and HA weekends that 2% of the gaming populace will participate and only .2% of the populace will enjoy, why not have retro weekend events. I would love an un-nerf for pve weekend event. EoE, Ursan, OoV, heck even SF should be invited. But the most important reason, it would be fun. For those of us who never got to abuse those skills, we'll get to try it out. For those who remember the good ol' days, you get to abuse button mashing your way through end-game material once in a while. What do you think? |
But they should do random old school weekends, for 1 weekend you can have unlimited minions again ( imagine the fun with that LOL ) sure you going to go threw some elite areas easy, but most elite areas are easy anyway, UW/FoW/Doa/Urgoz/Deep they are just no challenge anymore, im not saying go nerf them areas aswell after 6 years most people dont want to have to grind even more, they just wanna farm it, get armor etc have fun.
Aldric
/not signed
pre-nerf Ursan was a time of retardedness. Everywhere you went it was just Ursan Parties unless you were really lucky and seen a rare "non ursan group for dungeon x/8" message in town
It was an utterly overpowered skill that Anet took far too long to nerf into the ground although they did get there in the end which unfortunately can't be said for the ridiculously stupid SF.
pre-nerf Ursan was a time of retardedness. Everywhere you went it was just Ursan Parties unless you were really lucky and seen a rare "non ursan group for dungeon x/8" message in town
It was an utterly overpowered skill that Anet took far too long to nerf into the ground although they did get there in the end which unfortunately can't be said for the ridiculously stupid SF.