--- as title --
i know this is an old topic. but its become increasing difficult to get people to gvg especially during the nite american hours. and the npcs are just really bad, they have no sheilds and u cant micro skills on them.
so i ask you --
send an email to --- anet , like i have to ask they return heros back to pvp.
this will bring back more guilds & games to pvp, unlike it is now. gvg consists for like 20guilds , jus playin each other will like 3 builds everyone runs.
and it will somewhat give a face lift to a dying old gw pvp/gvg.
ty
bring back heros to pvp
TkDj
chullster
Me and the gf stopped playing HA pretty much after they removed them from that arena, we liked adding random people, 2 heroes and off you go.
The henchmen aren't good enough, so we don't bother now. We can't be bothered wasting so much time to make a full team of human players with all the crap that goes with it.
The henchmen aren't good enough, so we don't bother now. We can't be bothered wasting so much time to make a full team of human players with all the crap that goes with it.
Elnino
They were removed for a very, very good reason. In fact, they shouldn't have ever been allowed into GvG and HA.
I WANT THEM BACK FOR SCRIMS THOUGH.
I WANT THEM BACK FOR SCRIMS THOUGH.
Missing HB
The inactivity reason should be enough to at least allow more henchs in parties in HA and GvG( especially HA, which is a complete joke due to people syncing with second accounts)..Just play between midnight and 3pm GMT( sometimes more, depending on the day) and you can't GvG,HA,AB,Codex.....
Besides, they should be allowed AT LEAST in Codex to make the format playable for once and to fit with the ( HB+TA)^sealed=win!
Due to their attitude towards pvp, henchs and updates, it isn't likely that heroes will come back in HA/GvG( or anything will happen there), but there could be a small chance that they allow them in Codex Arena, and i think many would appreciate it...
Before this thread gets closed, i would like people to try to form a HA party on those hours though, to see why do people want heroes back... thanks
Besides, they should be allowed AT LEAST in Codex to make the format playable for once and to fit with the ( HB+TA)^sealed=win!
Due to their attitude towards pvp, henchs and updates, it isn't likely that heroes will come back in HA/GvG( or anything will happen there), but there could be a small chance that they allow them in Codex Arena, and i think many would appreciate it...
Before this thread gets closed, i would like people to try to form a HA party on those hours though, to see why do people want heroes back... thanks
chullster
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Originally Posted by Elnino
They were removed for a very, very good reason. In fact, they shouldn't have ever been allowed into GvG and HA.
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Yes they had bot reflexes, but all we ever did was farm UW and the map after it, we never won halls and we didn't bother bringing SoC or wards/snares, just 2 heroes and 6 eles of one kind or another.
Once (and ONCE only) we beat [SEXY] guild (they were holding a lot back then)on UW, lost many, many times to them, and we were all so chuffed, it made us feel no matter how good the guild, we always had some chance, no matter how small.
Heroes in HA just gave no rank and pve players a lucky win once in a while, which was enough to keep people coming back to try and get bambi, which kept the place alive somewhat.
Now, what's the point? I went to HA id1 on the last ZQ day, 2 teams forming one for r11+ and the other for r9+. Dead arena is dead.
Elnino
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Originally Posted by Missing HB
Besides, they should be allowed AT LEAST in Codex to make the format playable for once and to fit with the ( HB+TA)^sealed=win!
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Originally Posted by chullster
all we ever did was farm UW
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Heroes do have bot reflexes. Their AI can do things no human can (like maintaing Tainted Flesh on all party members and minions flawlessly) and having those advantages is just not good for the game. You could even lock Gwen onto an ele and guarantee that that ele won't be able to cast half of his skills (if not more). Just be happy that you have access to henchmen with decent skill bars (may not be meta but they work) and not the old Zaishen Henchmen.
Missing HB
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Originally Posted by Elnino
Won't work out. If heroes were allowed, CA would definately see an influx of solo players with their three heroes. Ofcourse, this will just entice more human teams to play CA to farm the incredibly inferior hero teams and gain heaps of codex title points. After that, you'll get people whining and complaining about the fact that hero teams lose against human teams. There can only be one or the other. Currently, CA is for human teams and you'd need to create a whole other CA for hero teams if your proposal is to work out. In which case, why not just bring HB and TA back???
Bolded the important part. I'm afraid that plenty of other people had other plans with those heroes. Heroes do have bot reflexes. Their AI can do things no human can (like maintaing Tainted Flesh on all party members and minions flawlessly) and having those advantages is just not good for the game. You could even lock Gwen onto an ele and guarantee that that ele won't be able to cast half of his skills (if not more). Just be happy that you have access to henchmen with decent skill bars (may not be meta but they work) and not the old Zaishen Henchmen. |
Besides , Codex title is already synced and abused a lot( so is HA title in fact) . People are as well doing red resign on bottom GvG ladder on quest day so i don't believe it would be that much an issue by then( eventually, just remove the quest if it turns in the same way as Hero Battles...)
His point is to face inactivity anyway and heroes are the ( only) solution to it
chullster
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Originally Posted by Elnino
Just be happy that you have access to henchmen with decent skill bars (may not be meta but they work) and not the old Zaishen Henchmen.
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No one wants to mess around forming for 20-40 mins then lose match after match, with various people rage quitting/e-drama, using hench that have old meta bars designed for humans, rather than using (old or new) bars designed for heroes.
TrippieHippie89
TBH i can see why they removed heroes from PvP. However, with the game being as dead as it is i don't think it'd be hurting anyone to bring them back. At the VERY least for scrims, it'd be nice to at least have something to waste time on, and it would affect the PvP meta at all.
Personally though, i think Codex was a horrendous mistake, great idea on paper but they implemented it all wrong. The random skills should change daily/weekly just to give some variety, maybe even allow heroes. In all honesty i think they should just bring HB back, theres absolutely NOBODY in Codex, maybe...and thats a big maybe on quest days you might be able to get a couple games in, but that's about it
Personally though, i think Codex was a horrendous mistake, great idea on paper but they implemented it all wrong. The random skills should change daily/weekly just to give some variety, maybe even allow heroes. In all honesty i think they should just bring HB back, theres absolutely NOBODY in Codex, maybe...and thats a big maybe on quest days you might be able to get a couple games in, but that's about it
depeche
Not signed.
I play gvg almost daily, on euro hours, and in that timeframe there are enough matches going on.
So GvG (can't speak about HA because i don't play that enough) is still certainly alive (at least in those hours).
I play gvg almost daily, on euro hours, and in that timeframe there are enough matches going on.
So GvG (can't speak about HA because i don't play that enough) is still certainly alive (at least in those hours).
Jeydra
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Originally Posted by depeche
Not signed.
I play gvg almost daily, on euro hours, and in that timeframe there are enough matches going on. So GvG (can't speak about HA because i don't play that enough) is still certainly alive (at least in those hours). |
/signed.
chuckles79
Anyone who started playing GW after the 2nd anniversary doesn't have much chance of ever doing HA unless they join a guild that does it regularly, and is willing to let that person in.
Non-CM PvP has been crap ever since EotN came out. The game has increasingly become a single player game with the option of playing with or against others.
Not that I liked being forced to PuG for everything, but usually other players are funner than AI.
Non-CM PvP has been crap ever since EotN came out. The game has increasingly become a single player game with the option of playing with or against others.
Not that I liked being forced to PuG for everything, but usually other players are funner than AI.
MithranArkanere
The reason that made ANet remove them from PvP is still valid. They are too good at using certain builds. If they let people bring heroes again, they'll start using those builds.
Elnino
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Originally Posted by Missing HB
I don't really see the logic in this though....
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Originally Posted by chuckles79
Anyone who started playing GW after the 2nd anniversary doesn't have much chance of ever doing HA unless they join a guild that does it regularly, and is willing to let that person in.
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You could also try forming your own teams. Most people don't check to see what rank the leader is. In fact, some groups don't really check anyone's rank. I remember a friend and I went to HA as monks and saw that a r9+ team was looking for monks and we just invited ourselves in and they didn't bother checking our ranks (we're not even r9).
The Drunkard
Even better, have a mode where if you're on the red team, you automatically lose. It would speed up the emote spamming.
/signed
/signed
TkDj
dont complain that heros are too good. hero builsd are easy to beat if ure decent, just split and collapse. just man its impossible to form. u gotta bring back heros or like american pvp is just dead.
lemming
Just because there's more teams playing doesn't mean that it's more active.
Think about it.
Think about it.
tealspikes
Except for Smiter's Boon heroes were never a real issue in GvG, it was just thrown into the pile when those HA kids were crying about tease bots and the HB kids were crying about RR.
RR was an easy fix, HA maybe a much more complicated situation so perhaps it was justified there, but in GvG heroes weren't even a problem to begin with.
/signed
RR was an easy fix, HA maybe a much more complicated situation so perhaps it was justified there, but in GvG heroes weren't even a problem to begin with.
/signed
Fluffy Kittens
Only reason they removed heroes were their interrupt reflexes but as you can see with henchmen in gvg their AI is messed up a lot and theyre missing tons of rupts. Im sure it wouldnt be a problem to mess up hero AI that way as well and bring them back.
/signed
/signed
Missing HB
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Originally Posted by lemming
Just because there's more teams playing doesn't mean that it's more active.
Think about it. |
From what i saw last week:
- HA = 1 team holding whereas second accounts are together to make sure there are UW matches... not playable for others
- Codex = synced by the same teams for weeks( some are, in addition , botting it)... besides, it's even harder to find 1 player there than in HA
Making more teams is obviously gonna make the game not abused at all on dead hours.
If you let players pick 3/7 henchs ( henchs yes, not heroes ), then everyone will be happy, people won't complain that they're too OP( overall, it's bars players suggested isn't it ?), and there will hardly be any more abuse....If you don't at least agree a little with this, then you probably don't play the game anymore
Elnino
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Originally Posted by Missing HB
If you let players pick 3/7 henchs ( henchs yes, not heroes ), then everyone will be happy, people won't complain that they're too OP( overall, it's bars players suggested isn't it ?), and there will hardly be any more abuse....If you don't at least agree a little with this, then you probably don't play the game anymore
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Coast
not signed, they bring nothing positive to the game so shouldn't be there
floor
I went in HA yesterday during the euro late morning / early afternoon since i had a day off work, and just wow, so so dead... also the players were so unbelievably bad, even the ones with like rank 9-11+ or whatever. I formed randomway with henchmen and some of my friends who were on and we flawlessed both of the rank 9+ teams who were playing and all the other teams several times over. Was really quite sad, still, just proves ranks are pointless and if u want to play HA for fun on dead hours, form randomways with friends and henchies, as long as ur on vent and just having fun chatting, all the repeated timer restarts arent so bad i guess...
On a more topic related note heroes did used to be kinda fun if you were the team using them, they were also really boring to play against because it generally meant OP hex builds, BUT at this stage in the game who actually cares if they're OP? Half of the builds/skills players use are OP anyway, and there are still people botting and all kinds of other stupid stuff. Bringing back heroes could hardly make things any worse after all?
/signed
On a more topic related note heroes did used to be kinda fun if you were the team using them, they were also really boring to play against because it generally meant OP hex builds, BUT at this stage in the game who actually cares if they're OP? Half of the builds/skills players use are OP anyway, and there are still people botting and all kinds of other stupid stuff. Bringing back heroes could hardly make things any worse after all?
/signed
Styxgyan
In HA heroes may be not the best solution but I think about other ones, because HA is death like many people said before:
-Make HA 6-man team again: it will be easier to form teams and there will be more teams in.
-Rebuild the tittles for HA and GvG like in RA and CA: for example, make HA progression fame earned lineal instead of exponential (nowdays a 10+ in a row run is almost impossible), and for champ. tittle make it to earn 1 point for a 1001-1050 rating, 2 for 1051-1100 rating, 3 for 1101-1150 rating, 4 for 1151-1200 and 5 for 1201+ (rebuilding the previous ones earned).
-Set a 12-minutes time limit for underworld, fetid river, burial mounds and golden gates maps. If the time is out, set the victory to the teams with more kills, last kill,...
There a lot of nice options to make HA / GvG a little more alive.
-Make HA 6-man team again: it will be easier to form teams and there will be more teams in.
-Rebuild the tittles for HA and GvG like in RA and CA: for example, make HA progression fame earned lineal instead of exponential (nowdays a 10+ in a row run is almost impossible), and for champ. tittle make it to earn 1 point for a 1001-1050 rating, 2 for 1051-1100 rating, 3 for 1101-1150 rating, 4 for 1151-1200 and 5 for 1201+ (rebuilding the previous ones earned).
-Set a 12-minutes time limit for underworld, fetid river, burial mounds and golden gates maps. If the time is out, set the victory to the teams with more kills, last kill,...
There a lot of nice options to make HA / GvG a little more alive.
Essence Snow
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Originally Posted by Styxgyan
-Rebuild the tittles for HA and GvG like in RA and CA: for example, make HA progression fame earned lineal instead of exponential (nowdays a 10+ in a row run is almost impossible), and for champ. tittle make it to earn 1 point for a 1001-1050 rating, 2 for 1051-1100 rating, 3 for 1101-1150 rating, 4 for 1151-1200 and 5 for 1201+ (rebuilding the previous ones earned).
-Set a 12-minutes time limit for underworld, fetid river, burial mounds and golden gates maps. If the time is out, set the victory to the teams with more kills, last kill,... There a lot of nice options to make HA / GvG a little more alive. |
Styxgyan
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
This would only further alienate new/newer players.
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Essence Snow
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Originally Posted by Styxgyan
Can you explain why, please?
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ex)
The red line being a higher ranked team
Styxgyan
I see your point of view.
But in fact, that change to the champion tittle (only reserved to high rating guilds) is to make it accesible to more people/guilds.
Yes, the progression of a high rating guild will be faster than another with a lower rating with the same number of victories. And I mean, if two guilds with ratings 1068 and 1174 fight in a rating match, the winner will earn 2 points; 1 in a 1021-1425 match; 5 in a 1204-1523, etc.
You point that the gap will grow exponentially, but right now the difference is between "earn points (rating 1200+)" and "0".
This is only a chance to mid. rating/casual experience players to get access to champion tittle (it seems that the only thing that moves the people nowdays is to complete their HoM/titles/get rich).
Imho heroes won't attract more people to HA/GvG's.
But in fact, that change to the champion tittle (only reserved to high rating guilds) is to make it accesible to more people/guilds.
Yes, the progression of a high rating guild will be faster than another with a lower rating with the same number of victories. And I mean, if two guilds with ratings 1068 and 1174 fight in a rating match, the winner will earn 2 points; 1 in a 1021-1425 match; 5 in a 1204-1523, etc.
You point that the gap will grow exponentially, but right now the difference is between "earn points (rating 1200+)" and "0".
This is only a chance to mid. rating/casual experience players to get access to champion tittle (it seems that the only thing that moves the people nowdays is to complete their HoM/titles/get rich).
Imho heroes won't attract more people to HA/GvG's.
Essence Snow
Imo..and yes this is just my opinion....to get more ppl into ha/gvg...they need to narrow the gap. Make newer teams gain points faster. Maybe base points on vs rank. IE if a 1000 rank defeats a 1200 rank...5 points, If a 1400 defeats a 1500....5 points. vice versely if a 1200 rank defeats a 1000rank 1point, if 1500 defeats a 1400 2-3 points. If a 1500 def 1000...0 points. Yes I know this would piss off high rankers.....but there are not many of them and they are already addicted to the format and so would learn to live with it
Styxgyan
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
Imo..and yes this is just my opinion....to get more ppl into ha/gvg...they need to narrow the gap. Make newer teams gain points faster. Maybe base points on vs rank. IE if a 1000 rank defeats a 1200 rank...5 points, If a 1400 defeats a 1500....5 points. vice versely if a 1200 rank defeats a 1000rank 1point, if 1500 defeats a 1400 2-3 points. If a 1500 def 1000...0 points. Yes I know this would piss off high rankers.....but there are not many of them and they are already addicted to the format and so would learn to live with it
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). But will be awesome if Anet make it real ^^
lemming
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
Imo..and yes this is just my opinion....to get more ppl into ha/gvg...they need to narrow the gap. Make newer teams gain points faster. Maybe base points on vs rank. IE if a 1000 rank defeats a 1200 rank...5 points, If a 1400 defeats a 1500....5 points. vice versely if a 1200 rank defeats a 1000rank 1point, if 1500 defeats a 1400 2-3 points. If a 1500 def 1000...0 points. Yes I know this would piss off high rankers.....but there are not many of them and they are already addicted to the format and so would learn to live with it
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Chocolate_Prayers
Having the reputation gain as anything other than linear would not be as helpful as people argue it to be...
People who have lots of experience in these PvP formats have earned their rank by playing for a long time, thus is the point of having the rep gain as it is; If people suddenly gain reputation at an accelerated rate, sure it will blur the line between high-ranking people and newbies, but it doesn't help the fact that the newbies will most likely still be rubbish at the format; Thus frustrating the veterans and making their hard earned reputation worthless.
Inversely if reputation is gained at an accelerated rate at higher ranks, it will mean that newcomers will generally be unable to catch up, preventing them from ever reaching those high ranking groups (inb4 "OMG JOIN HA/GVG GUILD THEN NOOB!11).
Having reputation gain scale through rank difference is essentially just a dynamic version of the two previously mentioned scenarios and you'd pretty much just see people smurfing to farm their titles faster while newcomers get left in the dust.
Also, this all might have nothing to do with bringing back heroes to pvp.
People who have lots of experience in these PvP formats have earned their rank by playing for a long time, thus is the point of having the rep gain as it is; If people suddenly gain reputation at an accelerated rate, sure it will blur the line between high-ranking people and newbies, but it doesn't help the fact that the newbies will most likely still be rubbish at the format; Thus frustrating the veterans and making their hard earned reputation worthless.
Inversely if reputation is gained at an accelerated rate at higher ranks, it will mean that newcomers will generally be unable to catch up, preventing them from ever reaching those high ranking groups (inb4 "OMG JOIN HA/GVG GUILD THEN NOOB!11).
Having reputation gain scale through rank difference is essentially just a dynamic version of the two previously mentioned scenarios and you'd pretty much just see people smurfing to farm their titles faster while newcomers get left in the dust.
Also, this all might have nothing to do with bringing back heroes to pvp.
Missing HB
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
Imo..and yes this is just my opinion....to get more ppl into ha/gvg...they need to narrow the gap. Make newer teams gain points faster. Maybe base points on vs rank. IE if a 1000 rank defeats a 1200 rank...5 points, If a 1400 defeats a 1500....5 points. vice versely if a 1200 rank defeats a 1000rank 1point, if 1500 defeats a 1400 2-3 points. If a 1500 def 1000...0 points. Yes I know this would piss off high rankers.....but there are not many of them and they are already addicted to the format and so would learn to live with it
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- People " truly" rating 1000 don't often win against rating 1200... that's not going to do anything for them, whereas as you probably can guess it, it will give an other incentive to smurf
- Active GvG'ers care about results in MaT today, not about ladder or champion title...
- people would come only to farm champion 3( from any way) and leave then... that's a very short term solution
That's pretty much why i see only 2 solutions :
- allow hench parties( hench not heroes), which will make people only able to finally play at any hour and remove many forms of abuse
- maybe change champion title to the following :
Multiply champion title by XX and get 1 point for any fight won above 1020 rating( to prevent RR)/2 for any won above 1070/3 above 1120/4 1170... etc ( started from 1020 in order to prevent a too easy way to get points at 1000)...
Fluffy Kittens
Changing champion title wouldn't change much it would just make people smurf more and more. Problem is player mentality, they just care about rating and rank and nothing else so no matter what you do, you can't fix GvG.
I agree that they should allow at least 4 henchmen (not heroes) in HA. It would make it at least a lil bit more alive.
I agree that they should allow at least 4 henchmen (not heroes) in HA. It would make it at least a lil bit more alive.