PvE Caster Gear - Why are skins so limited when so many exist?

There are some really nice skins for rods and foci in GW but for some reason the ArenaNet developers keep screwing us over by pinning them all to primary attributes. Even when they are compatible with secondary attributes, there is usually only a ranger of four attribute specific skins available and a bunch of general use skins to choose from unless you go into the realm of the woefully unacceptably modded greens.

Look at some of the nicer wand skins in the game - the Obsidian Rod, Serpentine Rod, Dead Scepter, Tiger Rod, (in the form of Mallyx items) etc. While we can have these drop in the game, we can't get them outside of primary attributes. Almost every player who uses a wand and focus set is going to use them as a 40/40 set - something you wouldn't want for primary attribute spells. Even items which drop with secondary attributes are near impossible to find - like the Wayward Wand (apparently un-inscribable versions can come with secondary attributes but good luck finding a 20/20 one), Celestial Scepter, Zodiac Wand etc. I was running the Deep many times and it got depressing merching such nice skins because no-one wants a wand or focus in a primary attribute.

The really depressing thing is there are a lot of skins which are simply unavailable to PvE outside of green drops and in many cases, exclusive to PvP rewards; this goes for both caster and martial items. To add insult to injury, a PvP item isn't restricted to attributes - they can have any caster skin in any attribute they want - not only breaking the PvE rules for inter-profession restrictions, but also allowing typically necromancer skins with mesmer attributes and vice versa. Not only can they have a Dead Sceptre with a curses attribute, they can have it with a healing prayers attribute if they want. PvE players are forever limited to a nice looking skin with a soul reaping attribute.

In a game where people are refusing to do certain dungeons or elite missions because the rewards are simply not worth it (Factions Elite missions are pretty underwhelming, when was the last time people were breaking down the door to do Vloxen Excavations to get those... rare skins from the chest, the Tiger Rod isn't available as a normal drop, how hard is it to add it to the Mallyx chest or random chests in DoA etc). There are so many green-specific, PvP specific, or pointlessly attribute specific wands and foci in the game and there is a huge opportunity for ArenaNet to utilise already existing game mechanics and content to make available these rare (and not so rare) items available to the players.

Hell, it would be a huge boon to Zaishen Quests (most of which are PvE specific and struggle to maintain player interest after equipment bags are in the market) if all they did was create a special "Zaishen PvE" item which acted like a PvP weapon. Allowing players to use Z Coins to access rarer/unique skins (like players can do with stat limited /bonus weapons or their PvP toons) would be a huge step in the right direction. A way to earn your weapons through normal PvE play (instead of basically being forced to buy them using the woefully inept trading system the game has in place seeing as drops are hard enough to come by as usable, let alone in the attribute and skin you want in the first place) would be great for casual players who want a guaranteed path of access to even common items (which normally force you to go to external auction sites or spam Kamadam hoping someone didn't merch it) without resorting to grinding out the same dungeons over and over.

The game has a lot of underutilised content, both in game rewards (attribute specific skins, green specific skins, Z Coin reward selections) and in terms of gameplay (Z Quests are great but the reward range is very specific and increasingly irrelevant to most people, it also lacks proportion - most items of any relevance are incredibly expensive, everything on the lower end is easily gotten by killing a few raptors, many dungeons suffer from poor rewards or a minute selection of rare skins - with so many impossible to access skins in the game, it should be easy to add them to the loot tables, the same with elite missions, how about adding a vanquish chest with map specific chest rewards to prevent people from only running easy to vanquish zones and give some range to the items rewarded - less flashy items like an inscribable curses attribute Deadly Cesta could be dropped from a vanquish chest for Sunqua Vale, rarer skins like the Dead Scepter with death magic or curses requirement might require a vanquish of areas in the desolation etc). Why can't we shake up the PvE loot system (particularly for caster gear, but there are a lot of nice martial items which are PvP exclusive) and really breath some life into the collector's market by removing restrictions allowing access to underutilised skins?

I totally agree, there are some very nice skins out there that just arent used.

there are a ton of skins that are used very limited. (some of the coke items come to mind).
Yes I would love to see some of those skins drop more often--I wouldnt even care if they had a primary attribute! (and I recently made a pvp only character just so I could get some of those skins not available on the pve side).

I agree with a lot of this. They might actually have done this but once again it may be due to limited resources. That's why we only have the Envoy Sword, Axe, Scythe and Staffs and none of the other weapons. Many of the skins you speak of may one day be implemented through an update. I would love to see the promotional items one day be implemented, especially the asian only ones I was unable to obtain at all. >:|

Totally agree. Some weapons can't even drop for certain attributes, like Tyrian/Factions staves not dropping as Healing Prayers, Protection Prayers, Soul Reaping and Fast Casting.

If you'd like more info, see this page on the wiki. I hate that I can't get a 20/20 Healing Celestial Scepter!

I have even consulted support about the missing attributes and they told me that Anet is aware of the issue. So obviously, Anet doesn't care enough to fix it (since it's been in the game since release).

It's not really related to the OP but I feel that it's related in the fact that many staves, wands and foci are locked to certain attributes despite the fact they are supposedly universal.

/signed

Never understood why certain skins were locked into one attribute.

The only thing they should do about could be use as additional rewards for Woc (like wik) some reused weapons in insc version with purple/new name. (like they've done with purity ones)

Eg, i dunno... "Scepter of Changes" with Celestial scepter skin, and so on. But it won't happen, so just stick with the few items we already have.

(A new set is coming anyway - Imperial weapons - but wont' close the gap cause have al weapons)

This reminds me of recently when i wanted a 40/40 resto set - i went to factions as i know theres a weapon npc for both lux/kurz who does the 40/40 sets.I was then shocked to discover i can get a 20/20 resto offhand but cannot get a 20/20 resto wand - the only place i could go and get one was from the weapon npcs at end on eotn.
This meant 1 of 2 things - try and find someone selling the item ( bad memory ) i could trade for it or go and complete eotn on a chr.

I don't understand what exactly you're suggesting here. You've outlined what you think is the problem very well, and I've seen many potential suggestions:

• Allow wands (and potentially foci and staves) that drop anywhere to be dropped as any caster attribute.
• Allow PvE weapons to have their skins upgraded with Zaishen Coins similar to the PvP upgrade system.
• Allow rare skins from elite content chests to be dropped as loot.
• Add a reward chest for vanquishing an area that rewards rarer skin-attribute match-ups based on difficulty.

Your conclusion doesn't really tell me though how exactly you want to address this. Is it a combination of all of the above? Or do we only need to do a few of these things?

I was taught not to complain about something unless you can propose a solution. I have no problem with any or all of the proposals to be implemented in the game, I was simply listing all my thoughts on how to utilise both gameplay content and reward content which already exists. Any or all of the suggestions I put forth would work tbh. I didn't start this thread intending for it to be a suggestion, when I started writing it I had just come from wiki research trying to put together a 40/40 curses set and I kept getting frustrated by the limited range of possible skins available despite so many nice skins existing. It also came from past experience looking at nice skins and seeing the primary attribute lock on it, making it useless for most builds - it's a weird trend ArenaNet has which basically just cripples caster loot viability. I was originally intending to start a discussion about all the wasted potential the game had and the disparity that effects caster classes (wand and foci selection is severely limited compared with sword, bow, daggers etc) but also how systems already exist creating disparity between PvP and PvE. After I had gotten all that down in seemed like a natural transition to mention how easy it would be to utilise a range of already existing mechanics in the game to solve all these problems.

Personally, I would like to see all of my suggestions implemented as I can see great value in all of them working side by side (in addition to the current systems, which for the most part aren't that different). Feel free to pick one you like or dislike if you want to discuss them in more detail.

Agree totally, the current situation has come about as the game evolved and the developers have noted the problem and are changing it just not in this game, I guess the reason for that is its too time consuming.

It makes perfect sense for the people who make the items in the first place to make them to sell to the greatest number of customers.

Just as the armour can be custom made so should the weapons

option 1 would result in WTF why is a monk using a dead scepter, maybe expand the ones linked to primary attributes only (i.e. divine favor to healing prayer + protection prayers + smiting)
option 2 would destroy the GW economy
option 3 is basically zaishen chest but for free
option 4 is probably best, but is quite unfair

Having an end chest when VQing would screw over everyone who's already VQed every area.

I'd rather have WoC-style collectors that give red or blue text non-tradable items akin to real collectors, but requiring gold Z coins (not as many as the Envoy weapons though: 100 Gold Zcoins is about 1.5-2mil; 10-15 is probably reasonable) or some other collector trophy. (I've been using collectors focii since 2005 and have found no reason not to save for a few select skins such as Celestial Compasses (CC), .) The only reason people want gold rare-skinned items is to screenshot and show off. It's different for non-inscribables but for inscribables, color doesn't matter. Stuff like Butterfly Mirror (exotic) superfarmed at Vaettir means having anything drop from mobs is lame.

The prereq for the collector could be that campaign's HM handbook on top of the gold zcoins. So if you beat HM Prophecies you can get a blue/red texted instead of the gold/exp. There's not many rare prophecies skins though, but I've never seen the Sacred Staff skin anywhere but on the Yakslapper: it supposedly drops on Istan but good luck getting a max inscribable one.

Staves - Basic
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ominous_Staff
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lesser_Istani_Staff
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Emanating_Staff
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Cowing_Staff
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Fire_Staff_(Canthan) --> maybe not
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Meditative_Staff
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Mossy_Walking_Stick
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ominous_Staff
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Pyric_Staff
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Bo_Staff *

Wands - Basic
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Amber_Wand --> maybe not
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Desolation_Wand
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Druidic_Wand
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Elegant_Wand
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Jade_Wand *
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Juju_Scepter
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lesser_Ancient_Rod
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Plagueborn_Scepter *
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Silver_Cane

Focus - Basic
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Iron_Ladle
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ivory_Crescent
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Jug *
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Paper_Lantern *

Staves - Fancy
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Amber_Staff *
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Cockatrice_Staff *
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dark_Spore_Staff
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Forbidden_Staff *
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Istani_Staff
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Jade_Staff *
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Labyrinthine_Spire
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Oaken_Staff
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Onyx_Staff_(PvP_reward)
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Outcast_Staff
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Plagueborn_Staff
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shark_Staff
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Twin_Serpent_Staff --> can be found inscribable

Wands - Fancy
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ancient_Rod
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kaineng_Wand
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Noble_Dragon_Cane
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Seahorse_Scepter
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Silver_Dragon_Cane
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Viridian_Scepter

Focus - Fancy
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Paper_Fan * (WoC one is a wand)
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Luminescent_Lantern
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Huntsman%27s_Horn
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Rose_Focus
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Skullcrest_Focus
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Woven_Focus

Staff - exotic
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Bedlam_Staff
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Celestial_Staff *
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dragon_Staff *
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Greater_Istani_Staff
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Elliptical_Staff
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Sacred_Staff
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Staff_of_the_Forgotten
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Willcrusher_Staff

Focus - exotic
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Forgo...an_(PvP_reward)
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Pronged_Fan --> Urgoz chest has inscribable but primary attribute only
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shadestone
+ Plagueborn focus isn't even a PvP reward

wand - exotic
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Boneclaw_Rod
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Celestial_Scepter *
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Darkwing_Wand
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dragon_Rod <-- would love this more than dragon staff
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Greater_Ancient_Rod
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Platinum_Scepter <-- I use scepter of the Keeper
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Prismatic_Scepter
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Platinum_Wand <-- only inscribable for certain attributes... essentially domination magic only
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Serpentine_Scepter <-- only inscribable Urgoz/Kanaxai chest for primary attributes
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Wayward_Wand <-- only inscribable Urgoz/Kanaxai chest for primary attributes
+ Plagueborn scepter isn't available as PvP reward


asterisk (*) indicates can be found as gold, but hard to get matching attributes due to existing non-inscribable

To stop this from killing the economy more, other than blue/red text and un-tradable you could have the name changed (see greens). You could have 100K imperial faction charged. An even more strict way to do it is require GWAMM + max Wisdom + max Treasurehunter + a HM handbook + 5-10 Gold Zcoins OR used a tiered system like PvP rewards. Currently Fancy requires 50 basic = 50x4 silver zcoins=200 silver z coins equal to 20 gold Zcoins. Exotic requires 50 fancy = 50x8=400 silver z coins equal to 40 gold zcoins. Total to get an exotic = 600 silver zcoins or 60 gold zcoins (~1-1.2mil).

I'd prioritize wands /focii more since staves have only one mod that's random now. The only (functional) reason to use wand over staff is 40/40 atm other than +15/-1 x2 (which is rarely needed):

• adept staff of enchanting > spear of enchanting + 20/20 focus (20HSR all vs 20HSR attribute + 10HSR all; 20HCT all or 36HCT attribute versus or 20HSR attribute / 20HSR attribute + 10HSR all)
• 20HSRx2 from wand + focus, 10HCT all on wand + focus > swift staff with don't think twice... but you lose enchanting/defense/fortitude suffix in exchange for 16% more HSR
• 20HSR wand + focus vs 36HSR > 20HSR on staff all if you use 1 attribute mainly
• +30-2 energy regen from wand + focus > staff with +15/-1 energy regen

wands: of quickening / of memory and +5energy (conditional) / aptitude not attitude / don't think twice
focii (+12en): forget me not/ live for today / serenity now and of swiftness / aptitude / fortitude
staves (+10en): +5energy insightful / adept / swift /defensive / hale and enchanting/fortitude/defense /mastery and attitude not attitude / don't think twice / +5energy (conditional)

The Skin is the only part of the item that has rarity value and that is only because some skins are in hard to get at places or have very low drop rates.

All the rest should be customisable unless there is a game lore reason why not.
The.
I would suggest they adopt their idea they are incorporating in their next game or have the weapon crafters be able to take a weapon and essentially wipe it of all mods allowing the player to then apply any mods they want.

Monks with dead weapons np Monks are no more "Good" than Necros are "Bad" a monk using part of a rotting corps as a wand is fine its down to how the player views their character.

Economy destroyed nope economy will simply refocus somewhere else just like in the real world.

Currently PvP players are able to use any skin with any attribute requirement as long as it's the same weapon class, so this is just bringing PvE in line with trends already existing in PvP. Who cares if a monk has a Bone Idol as long as he's happy with it?

Old school items would still be very valuable, exotic end game items (those difficult to obtain from chests) would cost a lot more Z Coins to obtain and thus would still retain their value. Currently most skins below exotic are worthless or only worth 1-15k, the biggest challenge (and in many cases insurmountable for most people) is finding a buyer or seller. By implementing a Z Coin system you preserve the primary ways of playing the game (missions, vanquishes, dungeons, boss bounties) as the primary source of obtaining equipment. It would arguably encourage more gameplay than the current system (which would still exist and be protected by the extreme grind built into the Z Coin system). The flashiest equipment is always going to be the most desirable, even if they were concerned about making dungeon running and speed clearing redundant (what a horrible concept) they could simply make dungeon exclusive rewards (like the BDS or Dryad Bow) unable to be obtained from the Z Coin trader. The core focus of the idea is to provide access to the many different items in the game, the current trade system is built around a small handfull of items being incredibly valuable (and easy to sell) while 95% of the loot table is just merched (or stuck with crappy attributes).

As far as option 3 goes, you wouldn't put chest exclusive items (like the Dryad Bow or Voltaic Spear) in random unlockable chests throughout Tyria, you would just add unimplemented currently PvP exclusive items to chests that make sense. The Canthan Blade could be added to chest loot tables for Kaineng City, different attribute versions of currently dropping items could just be added as additional possibilities to those chests (chests already dropping spawning Celestial Scepters could now drop restoration Celestial Scepters).

People were finishing UW and FoW long before the chest was added, the whole point of adding a chest is to give people a reason to vanquish the area more than once, or even if they have no intention of going for the full title. It uses pre-existing skins to give a little more reward to a currently underwhelming feature of the game (vanquish rewards). If they made them inscribable (regardless of campaign) it would also make them desirable enough for players to take on a vanquish aiming for a drop. If the drops are specific to maps/regions then players will be encouraged to vanquish different areas to access different loot tables, again encouraging players to engage in different parts of GW (instead of the current system which has players run UW/FoW/DoA/SoO until their eyes bleed).

Every time they add something or change something in the game, they are always going to affect the market. Devaluing items has proven to be a non-issue throughout the history of GW. PvP weapons didn't do it, Dwarven Axes aren't an issue and this isn't going to be the end of it either. The current system is ineffective and unnecessarily restrictive. There is so much potential for ArenaNet to do a lot more with pre-existing assets to allow far greater customisation to the currently under-appreciated caster classes, these are just some ideas to fix that problem while also boosting gameplay and reward value of other parts of the game.

As long as you keep them separated and easily distinguishable (with new names/peculiar colors) i don't think that economy would be destroyed introducing new(old) skins as insc. weapons.
Sure,best thing would be just design and add new skins insc. for foci/wand/staff only, but hey, even just read (and apply) LInfusion's wall of text is over Liveteam actual capabilities (unless taking efforts away from much more important stuff-aka Eles/skill changes or WoC) - no offese.

P.So not want to derail on old topic "Insc weapons are worst thing in GW cuz all noob can have goos stats/no they're the best exactely for that", but i fear we're going to hit it very soon down this route in discussion.

The only reason we don't have them is because the coding for the four was already present in the .dat since Factions. Hell, the only reason we do have the four is because the coding was already present in the .dat since Factions.

Since they've manage to implement a PvP system that enables players to create a wand/offhand of any req and any skin I don't see how it would be a problem if they copied that same existing system to PvE. Thusly crafted items should be customized to the character that crafted them in order to prevent trade and all the "the economy is ruined" QQ.

The skins are all already there. The system to make them in any req and any skin is already there. Simply add a crafter that requires some common materials, platinum and a few zaishen coins. Hell, they can even charge a few euros for unlocking the crafter dude. I know I'm anal enough about my items to actually pay for it since that crafter would be a lot more useful than the makeover dude.

It would be simpler if the requirements were things like:

- "X in any <caster profession> attribute" for caster weapons and foci with profession-specific skins.
- "X in any caster attribute" for caster weapons an foci with generic skins.
- "X in tactics, strength, motivation or command" for shields

Crafting mechanic. Once you "customize" a skin, you are able to craft it with whatever materials, for any attribute you choose. The more materials you use, the lower the requirement, exponentially. (5 ecto for r12, 10 for r11, 20 for r10, 40 for r9.) BOOM I has created good game design!

Whether all crafted weapons are by default customized or not would depend on whether crafting should be turned into a proper vocation or not.

Something like that would be epic. Would never see it in GW1 but one can dream.