seriously this is such a fun thing to do, I went to the alliance battle lobby via the guild hall and there was nobody there, I dont know why and how this died out its probably the funnest pvp game in guildwars.
can Anet please do something to promote this more and get it back up again?
why is alliance battle dead?
sonicwhip
ErrantVenture
JQ provides better rewards with shorter games.
It sucks b/c AB is much more fun.
It sucks b/c AB is much more fun.
Swingline
Besides what was said in above post you can play JQ/FA with 1 press of a button while you have to form a team for AB that still might lose. Besides AB is usually stuck on ancestral shitlands.
Lanier
I used to love AB. It was my favorite PvP format for sure 
I think that the lux/kurz faction update signaled the beginning of the end for AB. Before that update (and even, for a little time after), AB was extremely active because it was the best way to earn faction. Sometimes I wish that the lux/kurz faction-gaining methods could go back to those days. As is, I think the best band-aid fix would be to randomize the map selection and to slightly increase the faction gain.
I think that the lux/kurz faction update signaled the beginning of the end for AB. Before that update (and even, for a little time after), AB was extremely active because it was the best way to earn faction. Sometimes I wish that the lux/kurz faction-gaining methods could go back to those days. As is, I think the best band-aid fix would be to randomize the map selection and to slightly increase the faction gain.
LordDragon
Agreed, faction earned in AB is not worth the time it takes. I really like AB but I also like JQ so when it comes to a choice I go with better faction.
sonicwhip
I never really cared much for the rewards it was just really fun for me.
Anet should really do something to make it more popular.
Anet should really do something to make it more popular.
headlesshobbs
People don't play AB mainly because it's the lack of organized groups. Faction wasn't the meaningful factor in this because getting a team set up includes "OMG WE DON'T HAVE A MONK!!" plus the excessive amount of time waiting.
Everything's set to scrub groups now. If you want organized, you have to join a Guild, but they mainly do Guild Battles now. If Anet needs a solution, AB should allow random and have a major controlling (cut-off) influence to what you can be awarded, or have access to. The current method to running this game now is actually blocking all interest in being part of it.
I wouldn't mind setting up a "Save Alliance Battles" thread, but I've seen enough of the community to know how that'll be treated.
Everything's set to scrub groups now. If you want organized, you have to join a Guild, but they mainly do Guild Battles now. If Anet needs a solution, AB should allow random and have a major controlling (cut-off) influence to what you can be awarded, or have access to. The current method to running this game now is actually blocking all interest in being part of it.
I wouldn't mind setting up a "Save Alliance Battles" thread, but I've seen enough of the community to know how that'll be treated.
ItsJustMe
There are some good ideas listed in the other forum, Glads I think.
Either way, something should be done. As it stands, it's the only casual form of pvp left where we can form our own teams.
I'd like to see a standard map rotation that plays a map 3-4 times then rotates to the next one.
I wouldn't oppose 1 hench per team.
I'd love to see some kind of mAT for this format.
I'd love to see a true alliance (guild) option where one alliance could compete against another alliance.
It's a great format that deserves to be saved.
-i
Either way, something should be done. As it stands, it's the only casual form of pvp left where we can form our own teams.
I'd like to see a standard map rotation that plays a map 3-4 times then rotates to the next one.
I wouldn't oppose 1 hench per team.
I'd love to see some kind of mAT for this format.
I'd love to see a true alliance (guild) option where one alliance could compete against another alliance.
It's a great format that deserves to be saved.
-i
Da Mystic Reaper
Why AB is dead?
*Bad factions
*Long Matches
*Long waiting times
*Can't make a difference on your own due to the large number of players
*Relies on meta team builds making it a sad HA/GvG imitation
*PUGS PUGS PUGS and more noob PUGS
Due to the Imperial factions waiting time depents on the side you are with and doesn't matter anmore
The number of factions you get needs to be buffed since it isn't worth the trouble and the team system needs to be eliminated. It's because of the team system that it's dead like Codex wich has the identical flaw.
Increasing the reward and getting rid of the team system is plenty for AB to be resurrected.
*Bad factions
*Long Matches
*Long waiting times
*Can't make a difference on your own due to the large number of players
*Relies on meta team builds making it a sad HA/GvG imitation
*PUGS PUGS PUGS and more noob PUGS
Due to the Imperial factions waiting time depents on the side you are with and doesn't matter anmore
The number of factions you get needs to be buffed since it isn't worth the trouble and the team system needs to be eliminated. It's because of the team system that it's dead like Codex wich has the identical flaw.
Increasing the reward and getting rid of the team system is plenty for AB to be resurrected.
headlesshobbs
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da Mystic Reaper
Increasing the reward and getting rid of the team system is plenty for AB to be resurrected.
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Can we get someone over here?
mage767
Quote:
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Originally Posted by headlesshobbs
Agreed and where are Anet's thoughts on this?
Can we get someone over here? |
I have always thought that this is the preferred way to do PvP because the amount of no-monk rage-quitting is phenomenal, even in RA. Why? Because guild wars does not afford dedicated healing skills for all professions, and speccing in a secondary for heals/prot is inefficient.
For RA, keep the 4-man human teams, and add a 5th player which is a NPC monk. This will at least give many teams a chance to try.
Vincent Evan
JQ/FA offer better rewards for the casual gamers. The competitive people have moved on and/or quit. [anc]'s alliance is pretty much dead iirc.
makosi
Because:
-Capping shrines is boring
-People are reluctant to cap the boring shrines despite it being the route to winning
-Leechers
-Leavers
-Too many people; the individual's contribution is very diluted to the point of being virtually ineffectual.
-Most people use a build from the same handful of skill bars (Burning Arrow, Stance WoH, Wastrel's spammers, Grenths, Invoke etc.) The rest use their raptor farming builds.
-JQ/FA offer more faction per hour
-Too many people have their faction titles maxed.
-Capping shrines is boring
-People are reluctant to cap the boring shrines despite it being the route to winning
-Leechers
-Leavers
-Too many people; the individual's contribution is very diluted to the point of being virtually ineffectual.
-Most people use a build from the same handful of skill bars (Burning Arrow, Stance WoH, Wastrel's spammers, Grenths, Invoke etc.) The rest use their raptor farming builds.
-JQ/FA offer more faction per hour
-Too many people have their faction titles maxed.
Leohan
Alliance Battles only comes alive during bonus weekends or Zaishen Quest Day.
Why is it dead now?
There are many factors that lead to the death of several PvP formats, but lets focus on AB.
Jade Quarry and Fortaspenwood were once in the same situation that AB is in today. So Anet decided to up the rewards for these arenas. Instead of making the rewards of equal value to allow freedom of choice, the faction rewards went above AB's. This of course started to deplete the population. Spreading them out through out the 3 arenas. However AB was still alive and well.
Another factor was making Zaishen quests for PvP repeatable. When they were first introduced, it was not repeatable on the same character. This decision caused the majority of player base to abandon all other PvP formats for the day. To focus on the high reward value they present.
Any one farming the title does PvE vanquishing or certain challenge missions where little effort is taken to do these titles. e.g. Morostav Trail & Mount Qinkai.
The PvE books also depleted the population by providing people another alternative means other than PvP to gain faction for the title.
Alliance Battles as always been a casual arena where people never cared what build you had. As long as you had skills in the bar. The fact that people can switch sides tried to eliminate the factor of not enough people on one side. What it ended up doing is having everyone be on the same side because the maps advantages.
In the past Kruzick alliance were owning all the towns causing the map to stay on the luxon side. Now it seems the Luxon alliances are out numbering their challengers. It is very rare you see the map move.
This causes people to sigh at the map location and not even try to port to the outpost.
In Conclusion, Alliance Battles without a bonus weekend or Zaishen quest, as become the least reward for the most effort. People will always take the path of least resistance. It is not just one thing, so many little factors added to the equation of the most popular PvP format to become undead only on special occasions.
Why is it dead now?
There are many factors that lead to the death of several PvP formats, but lets focus on AB.
Jade Quarry and Fortaspenwood were once in the same situation that AB is in today. So Anet decided to up the rewards for these arenas. Instead of making the rewards of equal value to allow freedom of choice, the faction rewards went above AB's. This of course started to deplete the population. Spreading them out through out the 3 arenas. However AB was still alive and well.
Another factor was making Zaishen quests for PvP repeatable. When they were first introduced, it was not repeatable on the same character. This decision caused the majority of player base to abandon all other PvP formats for the day. To focus on the high reward value they present.
Any one farming the title does PvE vanquishing or certain challenge missions where little effort is taken to do these titles. e.g. Morostav Trail & Mount Qinkai.
The PvE books also depleted the population by providing people another alternative means other than PvP to gain faction for the title.
Alliance Battles as always been a casual arena where people never cared what build you had. As long as you had skills in the bar. The fact that people can switch sides tried to eliminate the factor of not enough people on one side. What it ended up doing is having everyone be on the same side because the maps advantages.
In the past Kruzick alliance were owning all the towns causing the map to stay on the luxon side. Now it seems the Luxon alliances are out numbering their challengers. It is very rare you see the map move.
This causes people to sigh at the map location and not even try to port to the outpost.
In Conclusion, Alliance Battles without a bonus weekend or Zaishen quest, as become the least reward for the most effort. People will always take the path of least resistance. It is not just one thing, so many little factors added to the equation of the most popular PvP format to become undead only on special occasions.
I Rahavan I
Quote:
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Originally Posted by makosi
Because:
-Capping shrines is boring -People are reluctant to cap the boring shrines despite it being the route to winning -Leechers -Leavers -Too many people; the individual's contribution is very diluted to the point of being virtually ineffectual. -Most people use a build from the same handful of skill bars (Burning Arrow, Stance WoH, Wastrel's spammers, Grenths, Invoke etc.) The rest use their raptor farming builds. -JQ/FA offer more faction per hour -Too many people have their faction titles maxed. |
headlesshobbs
I'd laugh if I saw mobbnig applied in JQ.
chullster
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Da Mystic Reaper
*Relies on meta team builds making it a sad HA/GvG imitation
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by makosi
-Most people use a build from the same handful of skill bars (Burning Arrow, Stance WoH, Wastrel's spammers, Grenths, Invoke etc.)
|
The double AB reward weekend last month, me and the girlfriend went as dual double dragon/burning speed/kinetic armour eles, we tag-teamed sooooo many 4 man meta TA style players.
Bodyblocking squishes and killing them in a few seconds while laughing at the melee who can't out-damage our aura of restoration/kinetic armour combo just never gets old. Oh and laughing at the rangers trying to rupt 1/4 sec and 3/4sec spells on 40/20 sets, was just like AB used to be when JQ and FA were ghost towns.
Got bored and started calling out the luxons/kurzick opponents (we switch sides a lot as both our titles are r12) to stop bringing wiki bars when it became too easy.
Then we switch to necros and tried blood spam like the HA team, was fun too killing the high armour targets first.....etc etc etc
TL;DR : Don't run boring meta bars in AB, the place is only active for a short period of time these days.
If they ever put AB rewards back in front of JQ/FA/vanqing as they should be, due to requiring more effort, then the place will be bouncing once again in no time at all.
Man W/ Club
RA is more fun and you don't have to wait or anything, thats the reason I don't AB.
It's just boring after 1 -2 battles.
It's just boring after 1 -2 battles.
Gli
They should just put it back to its Factions preview weekend state: random single player entry just like RA.
-Martian-
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Man W/ Club
RA is more fun
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Not really.
Loosing vs 3 sync teams in a row, it'snt that fun. And this happened to me just yesterday night.
Anyway to renewal AB: give the chance to PUG a whole 12 players party.
No more random idiots or noobs with you in the other 2 teams.
Ah, obviously It's needed to raise up rewards as well.
MithranArkanere
I mostly PvE, but it was the free PvP weekends what got me into GW in the first place.
Maybe they should bring that back.
Each weekend when there's no festival or special event with drops (like pirate day, thanksgiving, easter, etc), one of the PvP formats could be open to the public.
That could bring the interest towards that format, with more people there's always more fights, and with more fights come more chances to win.
Maybe they should bring that back.
Each weekend when there's no festival or special event with drops (like pirate day, thanksgiving, easter, etc), one of the PvP formats could be open to the public.
That could bring the interest towards that format, with more people there's always more fights, and with more fights come more chances to win.
Pinkest One
Running in circles,using no skills but perhaps an IMS,capping,while the other team is right behind you re-capping, is not fun.
Sankt Hallvard
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pinkest One
Running in circles,using no skills but perhaps an IMS,capping,while the other team is right behind you re-capping, is not fun.
|
MithranArkanere
Unfortunately, that's the most effective way.
Never forget that people gravitate towards effectiveness.
If they see that they win more often by doing something repetitive and boring, they will do that.
Cap, cap, cap, and kill only those that are dumb enough to be caught alone. That works, so people do that.
Each map needs more diverse objectives, alternate things to do to gain advantage. Picking some explosive and blowing some door isn't enough, when doing that takes enough time for the enemy to cap 2 or 3 shrines and keep advantage over you.
Even things like making it so only one two shrines can be contested at any give time (Like TF2's control points) would focus the game more into actual battles than into silly avoid-combat tactics.
Never forget that people gravitate towards effectiveness.
If they see that they win more often by doing something repetitive and boring, they will do that.
Cap, cap, cap, and kill only those that are dumb enough to be caught alone. That works, so people do that.
Each map needs more diverse objectives, alternate things to do to gain advantage. Picking some explosive and blowing some door isn't enough, when doing that takes enough time for the enemy to cap 2 or 3 shrines and keep advantage over you.
Even things like making it so only one two shrines can be contested at any give time (Like TF2's control points) would focus the game more into actual battles than into silly avoid-combat tactics.
Markaedw
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pinkest One
Running in circles,using no skills but perhaps an IMS,capping,while the other team is right behind you re-capping, is not fun.
|
There is a little more strategy than that. Sometimes it is avoid fighting and cap fast. Sometimes you have to mob but still have a few solos cappers. As a solo capper you have to decide when to cap and maybe die and when to abandon the attempt run to the next one.
I am working on maxing my allegiance titles and I play AB very little, even on the ZC days I usually just play my regular FA and JQ. Sometimes it takes me 3 ZC days just to get 2 victories. The last time AB came up for ZC I didn't even bother playing.
Sankt Hallvard
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Unfortunately, that's the most effective way.
Never forget that people gravitate towards effectiveness. If they see that they win more often by doing something repetitive and boring, they will do that. Cap, cap, cap, and kill only those that are dumb enough to be caught alone. That works, so people do that. Each map needs more diverse objectives, alternate things to do to gain advantage. Picking some explosive and blowing some door isn't enough, when doing that takes enough time for the enemy to cap 2 or 3 shrines and keep advantage over you. Even things like making it so only one two shrines can be contested at any give time (Like TF2's control points) would focus the game more into actual battles than into silly avoid-combat tactics. |
I thought it was just this one guy being clueless, but seems like this notion of AB being a brainless mobbing capfest is shared by more. Capping and avoiding combat is vastly more effective than running around randomly dying to better or more numerous opponents. That doesn't mean avoiding combat is the best or only winning strategy. In fact, it's far from optimal.
Ever heard of this thing "dead players don't cap"? It's actually true. Controlling where they respawn is another aspect, sending them back to base costs them time, valuable time. With regards to this scenario that the other guy pointed out with a team recapping just behind your team.. why not wait at the shrine and take them on 4v4 but with the added support of holding the shrine. They can't push in without dying, you can always fall back if you take pressure. You may even be able to afford to send off 1-2 people from your team effectively stalling an entire team with just 2-3 players. A good trade. People don't understand that the shrines vary in importance either. On grenz/etnaran the res point is extremely crucial while ele/war/ranger is of greater strategic importance than mes/nec/orb. I've been using this and a lot more to gain an upper hand in all of my matches for years now. My win:lose ratio is way above average and I win even vs synced teams carrying nooblets. And I spend my time fighting compared to capping in about 5:1 ratio.
AB is just a lot more strategic than people realise. Only a handful exploit this to the fullest. But this thread was about how AB is dead and after entering the outpost a few times lately I can verify this. Very sad indeed.
Missing HB
I'm not disagreeing with the fact that AB requires a little tactic, but let's be honest , it's usually about abusing the fact that most players are terrible:
- try to just run around the map and you will certainly have at least 2 opponents following you( note: this works 99% of time if you have less than 100 hp)
- usually people aren't climbing on shrine... just stand on the very end of its range and most of time people will wand/spam skills away from the shrine
- people don't know how to suicide properly( i.e in order to facilitate your team or gain seconds to cap shrines).. linked with first point..
There is nothing with bodyblocking, timekilling, snaring, strong team play , etc.. which means no tactic really... And i got to say that the guy is quite right saying that most of fights are 2 teams running in circle to see who's capping the fastest...but that's exclusive to kurzic/luxon castle maps, this doesn't really happen in other maps( but we never get those... so that's why..)
- try to just run around the map and you will certainly have at least 2 opponents following you( note: this works 99% of time if you have less than 100 hp)
- usually people aren't climbing on shrine... just stand on the very end of its range and most of time people will wand/spam skills away from the shrine
- people don't know how to suicide properly( i.e in order to facilitate your team or gain seconds to cap shrines).. linked with first point..
There is nothing with bodyblocking, timekilling, snaring, strong team play , etc.. which means no tactic really... And i got to say that the guy is quite right saying that most of fights are 2 teams running in circle to see who's capping the fastest...but that's exclusive to kurzic/luxon castle maps, this doesn't really happen in other maps( but we never get those... so that's why..)
JONO51
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pinkest One
Running in circles,using no skills but perhaps an IMS,capping,while the other team is right behind you re-capping, is not fun.
|
Hi I'm Jecht
I get the feeling that most people who have posted here are the people who say 'Clockwise only' at the beginning of each game.
That makes me believe that AB Is dead because the competitive players stopped playing, and that the competitive players stopped playing because these 'Clockwise only' players are an easy farm, for easy wins, for every game.
Didn't we already have an AB thread the other day?
That makes me believe that AB Is dead because the competitive players stopped playing, and that the competitive players stopped playing because these 'Clockwise only' players are an easy farm, for easy wins, for every game.
Didn't we already have an AB thread the other day?
lemming
It was in Glad's Arena.
MithranArkanere
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard
Sweet mother of...
[...] |
Most of the time a leader has no control over 8/12 players. And PUGs happen so often that they may have no control over 11/12 players.
Yes, there are many viable tactics, but the lack of organization between parties of the same side makes keeping a single mindless tactic the most effective one.
The main problem is people wanting, control over towns(to get cheaper lockpicks) and titles(to show off, for the HoM or for skills) more than the fun of the combat itself.
So they won't risk defeat with 'new' tactics, when the old ones work.
They don't think much about it, they just keep doing what seems to work.
It doesn't matter if AB is more strategic than people realize, if they'll never realize it.
Pinkest One
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard
Sweet mother of...
I thought it was just this one guy being clueless, but seems like this notion of AB being a brainless mobbing capfest is shared by more. Capping and avoiding combat is vastly more effective than running around randomly dying to better or more numerous opponents. That doesn't mean avoiding combat is the best or only winning strategy. In fact, it's far from optimal. |
The "Notion" of it being a mobbin capfest isnt just shared my more...its shared by the majority.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard
wait at the shrine and take them on 4v4 but with the added support of holding the shrine.
|
The Drunkard
Game's been out for a while, as well as the title for AB.
Most people don't tend to continue playing after finishing Savior.
I'm sure you can connect the rest of the dots.
Most people don't tend to continue playing after finishing Savior.
I'm sure you can connect the rest of the dots.
Judge Nl
AB has been arround for a long while. Since then various tactics were developed. Some based on capping, some on taking teams out and some on preventing enemy caps.
It has random teams indeed. But the trick is to know / predict what those teams can do, know what they cannot do and adjust tactics to that.
Quote:
| Most of the time a leader has no control over 8/12 players. |
DiogoSilva
AB used to be my favourite pvp format sometime ago, especially when it wasn't stuck on the castle. But, like to most other people here, I ended up getting used to the run and cap tactic, and then got bored of it.
I remember when I thought of the idea of going water ele. The ability to support shrine capping, even if not solo (Maelstrom for spellcasters, Blurred Vision for warriors, while rest of team dealt most of the damage job) while still having some fun snaring people out seemed very fun to me, in a format that's mostly about movement. But wow, was I ineffective at both. Snaring teams was useless because they would be delayed in combat regardless. Snaring single foes was mostly useless because they are idiots and die easily against full teams, or simply waste their time.
I mean, why even bother if I can just solo cap, fall back, solo cap, and so on, and have faith that the level of stupidity from the opposing faction is higer than mine's?
I remember when I thought of the idea of going water ele. The ability to support shrine capping, even if not solo (Maelstrom for spellcasters, Blurred Vision for warriors, while rest of team dealt most of the damage job) while still having some fun snaring people out seemed very fun to me, in a format that's mostly about movement. But wow, was I ineffective at both. Snaring teams was useless because they would be delayed in combat regardless. Snaring single foes was mostly useless because they are idiots and die easily against full teams, or simply waste their time.
I mean, why even bother if I can just solo cap, fall back, solo cap, and so on, and have faith that the level of stupidity from the opposing faction is higer than mine's?
headlesshobbs
I'm going back on my point on controlling awards, importance to territorial control in PVE, etc. Anet needs to make a point with this as opposed to running their current build setting the way it is now.
I don't mind seeing folks cut off from their gains, but if they don't have land, they shouldn't be getting anything until they get off their butts and get it back. JQ/FA needs to fall under this as well.
I don't mind seeing folks cut off from their gains, but if they don't have land, they shouldn't be getting anything until they get off their butts and get it back. JQ/FA needs to fall under this as well.
Sankt Hallvard
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pinkest One
4vs4? 4vs12 common and no shrine will change the outcome against those odds. So you either run from the mob,which doesnt contribute much to the score,or you stand and fight,stalling the mob very little.
|
Yes yes.. to all of you saying people are idiots, of course they are. But every once in a while you run into some good players and what do you do then? Fold your cards and blame "bad allies"? I bet most of you have done that, even those here that consider themselves good. Look at your allies before match starts, randomways? Heals available? Capways? Adjust accordingly. See 4 baddies fighting cnex at res shrine? Go help them! Cnex losing morale, your bad allies get a rush and will pay you back by running off to cap shrines. Protect npcs. Protect allies. I don't know about you but for me the biggest thrills came from winning with baddies against the odds. It is INSANE how much impact just 1 player can have on the outcome of a game. (Not saying it's sometimes totally hopeless - "sacways")
Sirds
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard
Step away from shrine. Let them cap. Recap as soon as they move on. They max out at 4 pips of cap speed, same as you spend to recap. Then just follow them around till you win. Ta-daa...
Yes yes.. to all of you saying people are idiots, of course they are. But every once in a while you run into some good players and what do you do then? Fold your cards and blame "bad allies"? I bet most of you have done that, even those here that consider themselves good. Look at your allies before match starts, randomways? Heals available? Capways? Adjust accordingly. See 4 baddies fighting cnex at res shrine? Go help them! Cnex losing morale, your bad allies get a rush and will pay you back by running off to cap shrines. Protect npcs. Protect allies. I don't know about you but for me the biggest thrills came from winning with baddies against the odds. It is INSANE how much impact just 1 player can have on the outcome of a game. (Not saying it's sometimes totally hopeless - "sacways") |
chullster
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard
...snip...
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I seriously would have not bothered with GW had I not discovered AB when playing on my girlfriends account. If the first thing I had seen of PvP was Sync Arenas, Ranked Ascent or Shadowstep Battles I would have not have given anet my money several times over and just carried on living in Battlefield 2: Special Forces.
Don Zardeone
if monks are needed just allow 1 hero per team
win?
win?