Effects of (possible) HM update on dervishes
Kunder
An interesting observation: IV is 2/3rds of SF in DPS for a single character in 1/2 the cast time (assuming that you target it correctly so that it does maximum damage). Along with the obvious advantages of infinite energy generation vs. requiring 4 skills on your bar just to fuel SF. Course, the main advantage of SF is that it scales better the more SF characters you get while IV scales worse, but its a cool fact.
Also, IV is going to be a nice replacement for RoJ in N/Mo smite support builds.
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Originally Posted by Old but new
Also, IV is going to be a nice replacement for RoJ in N/Mo smite support builds.
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So... they are going to kill the only good Dervish Farm? What a bunch of shortsighted $%&*#
Sorry, balance doesn't give a damn about farming.
Old but new
Avatar_of_Melandru This skill is what enables a Dervish to tank in any case that Shadow Form would not really be needed.(much like the warriors Defy Pain)....raising the HP of monsters would make this skill useless once again....
That's balanced?
Faithful_Intervention This skill only works if the Dervish can keep it's health high enough to make use it.
That's balanced?
Intimidating_Aura This skill is ENTIRELY dependent on keeping on the Dervish health above the enemy's. Another useless Dervish skill... Really?
That's balanced?
Crippling_Victory This skill's primary goal is gone... no longer useable if the HP cap goes up
That's balanced?
Victorious_Sweep This skill's secondary affect would never trigger again. Making one the Dervish's best skills become useless overnight.
That's balanced?
Chilling_Victory Yet another skill that High HP would make useless
That's Balanced?
So just to recap.....
1) kills 3 really good scythe attacks.. effectively lowering the Dervish overall DPS by a staggering amount.
2)Kills an elite skill specifically made to put Dervish on an even playing field with Warriors
3)Kills a farming build for the Dervish
All this adds up to a decreased battlefield "presence" of this profession by such a large degree, that is is likely, in my opinion, to never be useful in organized PvP again. If something is not changed with these specific skills.. anet will have allot of angry Derv's on there hand.
Not to mention how this affects all other professions. This measure should of been made a long time ago. Not after they made these changes to the Dervish class. The untold consequences of this mistake will ripple through the community. Mark my word, and do not be surprised when ALLOT of people rage when they realize what's happened; has not benefited anything other than Elementist.
That's balanced?
Faithful_Intervention This skill only works if the Dervish can keep it's health high enough to make use it.
That's balanced?
Intimidating_Aura This skill is ENTIRELY dependent on keeping on the Dervish health above the enemy's. Another useless Dervish skill... Really?
That's balanced?
Crippling_Victory This skill's primary goal is gone... no longer useable if the HP cap goes up
That's balanced?
Victorious_Sweep This skill's secondary affect would never trigger again. Making one the Dervish's best skills become useless overnight.
That's balanced?
Chilling_Victory Yet another skill that High HP would make useless
That's Balanced?
So just to recap.....
1) kills 3 really good scythe attacks.. effectively lowering the Dervish overall DPS by a staggering amount.
2)Kills an elite skill specifically made to put Dervish on an even playing field with Warriors
3)Kills a farming build for the Dervish
All this adds up to a decreased battlefield "presence" of this profession by such a large degree, that is is likely, in my opinion, to never be useful in organized PvP again. If something is not changed with these specific skills.. anet will have allot of angry Derv's on there hand.
Not to mention how this affects all other professions. This measure should of been made a long time ago. Not after they made these changes to the Dervish class. The untold consequences of this mistake will ripple through the community. Mark my word, and do not be surprised when ALLOT of people rage when they realize what's happened; has not benefited anything other than Elementist.
Lanier
balance should not be based at all on popular farming builds.
Ok, so maybe a few derv skills would recieve nerfs. Degen skills would also recieve nerfs. These are the unfortunate side-effects of raising HP/lowering ar (of course ar-ignoring damage also recieves nerfs but it needs nerfs imo).
But look at the upside: There are many more elemental damage skills than just the elementalist ones. This would also help the rit's lightning damage spells, the necro's cold damage spells, the monk's lone elemental damage spell (zealot's fire), and the derv's earth/cold magic spells. So yes, maybe a few derv skills recieve slight nerfs (once again, im not considering farms), but many more skills (derv skills included) recieve buffs.
Ok, so maybe a few derv skills would recieve nerfs. Degen skills would also recieve nerfs. These are the unfortunate side-effects of raising HP/lowering ar (of course ar-ignoring damage also recieves nerfs but it needs nerfs imo).
But look at the upside: There are many more elemental damage skills than just the elementalist ones. This would also help the rit's lightning damage spells, the necro's cold damage spells, the monk's lone elemental damage spell (zealot's fire), and the derv's earth/cold magic spells. So yes, maybe a few derv skills recieve slight nerfs (once again, im not considering farms), but many more skills (derv skills included) recieve buffs.
Old but new
Very well thought out argument.. thank you for that.
That being said, the "untold consequences" still very much concerns me. Such as melee damage being more of a threat than it is now(it all ready is).. just as an example. Combine that the Dervish small packet damage, low crit chance. The warriors high crit chance, and big packet damage. It's a recipe for major balance issues in the near future. Sometimes I hate being right about these things, but I fear the catastrophe of the infamous '07 patch is bound to repeat it's self. In case you don't know that one... 1/3 of the community left the game after that patch. Guild Wars can not afford that this late in the game. Servers would forced to shut down do to lack of an active community.
Than again, who am I too say that was not they're intention in the first place.
That being said, the "untold consequences" still very much concerns me. Such as melee damage being more of a threat than it is now(it all ready is).. just as an example. Combine that the Dervish small packet damage, low crit chance. The warriors high crit chance, and big packet damage. It's a recipe for major balance issues in the near future. Sometimes I hate being right about these things, but I fear the catastrophe of the infamous '07 patch is bound to repeat it's self. In case you don't know that one... 1/3 of the community left the game after that patch. Guild Wars can not afford that this late in the game. Servers would forced to shut down do to lack of an active community.
Than again, who am I too say that was not they're intention in the first place.
Swingline
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Originally Posted by Old but new
That's balanced?
Faithful_Intervention This skill only works if the Dervish can keep it's health high enough to make use it.
That's balanced?
Intimidating_Aura This skill is ENTIRELY dependent on keeping on the Dervish health above the enemy's. Another useless Dervish skill... Really?
That's balanced?
Crippling_Victory This skill's primary goal is gone... no longer useable if the HP cap goes up
That's balanced?
Victorious_Sweep This skill's secondary affect would never trigger again. Making one the Dervish's best skills become useless overnight.
That's balanced?
Chilling_Victory Yet another skill that High HP would make useless
That's Balanced?
So just to recap.....
1) kills 3 really good scythe attacks.. effectively lowering the Dervish overall DPS by a staggering amount.
2)Kills an elite skill specifically made to put Dervish on an even playing field with Warriors
3)Kills a farming build for the Dervish
All this adds up to a decreased battlefield "presence" of this profession by such a large degree, that is is likely, in my opinion, to never be useful in organized PvP again. If something is not changed with these specific skills.. anet will have allot of angry Derv's on there hand.
Not to mention how this affects all other professions. This measure should of been made a long time ago. Not after they made these changes to the Dervish class. The untold consequences of this mistake will ripple through the community. Mark my word, and do not be surprised when ALLOT of people rage when they realize what's happened; has not benefited anything other than Elementist. Dervish on an even playing field with Warriors? Can a Warrior hit 3 mobs at once? Do Warriors have attacks that refund them health? Does the Warrior have enchantments that cast instantly? Does the Warrior have an easily accessible skill to cause cracked armor? Does the Warrior have avatars that grant them jaw dropping abilities?
The only thing the warrior has is SY to buff the party and... oh wait another class stole that roll from us.
You haven't even seen the update yet and your on the brink of a full on rage meltdown? If I was playing a dervish main I would at least think anet might take a look at such skills that have affects based on hp and then if they don't it just means the dervish can't solo entire mobs which is just imbalanced.
P.S. I would just like to add your dervish update took my warriors W/D farming build for ecto farming and you didn't see me complaining about it. I simply moved on.
Old but new
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Dervish on an even playing field with Warriors? Can a Warrior hit 3 mobs at once? Do Warriors have attacks that refund them health? Does the Warrior have enchantments that cast instantly? Does the Warrior have an easily accessible skill to cause cracked armor? Does the Warrior have avatars that grant them jaw dropping abilities?
My theory would be that Elementist damage would indeed increase. But Warriors and Assassins Critical damage would give them too much of an edge. I can't help but to think that Elementist (and all other professions) would still find them self's at the mercy of marauding warriors and Palm strike Sins.
In the end all I'm asking is that people wake up and think about the consequences of changing something like this.
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Dervish damage would not become nerfed. Only weapon damage is calculated by armor, all the +damage from attack skills is armor ignoring and it is indeed a buff to all physical melee weapons while it is also nerf to damage added by attack skills that is not elemental such as chilling victory. This is the type of scenario where the professions that dable in different types of damage get a nerf(that they needed) and a buff at the same time in different places. |
If I was playing a dervish main I would at least think anet might take a look at such skills that have affects based on hp and then if they don't it just means the dervish can't solo entire mobs which is just imbalanced.
Common since should tell you that they did NOT think about it...otherwise why redesign skills specifically centered around keeping health up? Only to change the environment in which these skills were designed to counter? Wake up man... I can see this flub coming from 10 miles out. Surely you must have an inkling of what must be going on....
Swingline
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Originally Posted by Old but new
My theory would be that Elementist damage would indeed increase. But Warriors and Assassins Critical damage would give them too much of an edge. I can't help but to think that Elementist (and all other professions) would still find them self's at the mercy of marauding warriors and Palm strike Sins. |
Skills that immediately refund health while dealing damage on a HM mob with full HP is nothing short of imbalanced. It's supposed to be Hard Mode, not easy mode where you can run up and solo whole groups. They will still be very usable for survivability but not to the point of being overpowered. I can only hope the same thing happens to SF and SoS even though it won't.
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