Situations where it's reasonable to use Envoy Staff?

Hands of the Gods

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2009

Pittsburgh

Surpassing the Ordinary [Epic]

Mo/

Figured I'd gather a few peoples' opinions on some situations where it may actually be useful.

I've given it some thought, and the only thing I can think of is an AP caller build - I refuse to shell out so much ecto for something that really is actually less efficient than the staff I currently use, and that sucks because I really like the skin.

What gives?

Feel free to share your thoughts and (Heleyne's) insights. HO HO HO I MADE A PUN
Happy Holidays!

EDIT: Seems we have some oblivious players; Envoy Staff has an inherent 10%HCT instead of 20%HSR - which is the dilemma. I thought everyone knew this by now.

Maya Cerestiez

Maya Cerestiez

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2009

Sweden

HYAHHHHH!

Well.. it is only about the skin. Don't really understand what you want.

Hands of the Gods

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2009

Pittsburgh

Surpassing the Ordinary [Epic]

Mo/

except, it's not only about the skin.

Envoy staff has an inherent 10%HCT on spells, while all normal staves have 20%HSR - if you know anything about GW mechanics and usage then you would understand the dilemma.

What I want is for someone to suggest some scenarios where it would be viably useful, thus validating the reason for purchasing it.

Not even for personal use, just for curiosity's sake.

neighto

neighto

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

The Heart of Life is [Love]

ugh.. Its an epeen item.

i think you already answered your own question by the edit you placed on your OP.

If you want something functional.. then dont buy it.. if you just want to show off that you wasted a lot of money for a somewhat useless modded "pretty" staff then go ahead..


really not a hard choice here mate..

jazilla

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands of the Gods View Post
except, it's not only about the skin.

Envoy staff has an inherent 10%HCT on spells, while all normal staves have 20%HSR - if you know anything about GW mechanics and usage then you would understand the dilemma.

What I want is for someone to suggest some scenarios where it would be viably useful, thus validating the reason for purchasing it.

Not even for personal use, just for curiosity's sake.
I use this type of staff in PvE almost exclusively. 10% on all spells is way more useful to me than 20% HSR of one attribute. I use a staff like this for my monk, ele, and mesmer. I would on Necro too, but that is the one class I don't play. It's great for Rits too because as a Rit you usually are running a few different attributes too.

Jim Beam

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Nov 2010

well it could be helpful for the emo bonder build seeing as how your spamming 0 cd spells most of the time.

Hands of the Gods

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2009

Pittsburgh

Surpassing the Ordinary [Epic]

Mo/

It's not that I don't think it's entirely functional, it could be well used in *certain* areas - I was just wanting to promote some thought and see if anyone else was able to come up with other ideas.

Basically, where could you use this staff where it would outclass other weapon options?

I'm not lobbying for it or anything, the inquiring mind would like to know is all.


@Jim Beam - Awesome! That's the exact sort of input I was looking for, thanks
@Jazilla - You're aware it's 10% Half Casting Time, right?

The only situations I can think of it coming in handy is where your bar is mainly compromised of spells from a different profession.
i.e.; FC Mesmer Nukers -but why use this instead of the attributes 40/40

This damn thing is such a headache, I wish Anet would've just released two versions or something along each attrib line.

_Aphotic_

_Aphotic_

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2010

Muppets Versus Muppets [MvM]

P/A

-Perhaps while being camped by a mesmer/ranger in PvP.
-[If you're not using 40/40] and maybe being a prot monk, since prots generally last longer than your general recharges (both if using 20% enchant staff, and usually w/out as well). (Enchant strips on prots are occasional, and only if coordinated- in this meta, the eles should be prioritized to kill their energy). I'm sure there's more to this...

Yeah, but since the HCT is rather puny and the fact it's primary attribute locked limits it's usefulness.

Gabriel of Ravn

Gabriel of Ravn

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2010

Virginia

None, retired to GW2.

W/A

If you want half casting time 10% get any modifiable staff and I mean any and slap a swift staff head. Problem solved you spent a few k at the most instead of 20e or so for the green.

Hands of the Gods

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2009

Pittsburgh

Surpassing the Ordinary [Epic]

Mo/

It's not that I want the HCT, remotely.

Mainly, I'm curious why Anet would put such a questionable mod on a high-end weapon - and so, I wonder where it could be appropriately used.

Surely they had to have a few ideas in mind.

I just think it's a little daft to essentially take such a nice staff out of the game for serious endgame players when endgame players are really the only ones who'd be able to afford /and/or/ are willing to buy it.

Venganza

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2011

Fire

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands of the Gods View Post
Mainly, I'm curious why Anet would put such a questionable mod on a high-end weapon
Because all primary attrib only weps use that mod, I am surprised you don't already know this.

ErrantVenture

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2010

Social Darwinism [SaD]

A/W

Uh why don't you just shell out the 250 rps for the reward skin?

Lanier

Lanier

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

[Pink]

P/

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErrantVenture View Post
Uh why don't you just shell out the 250 rps for the reward skin?
but isn't that only for PvP chars?

lemming

lemming

The Hotshot

Join Date: May 2006

Honolulu

International District [id???]

You can do it with the preorder staves too, if that helps.

StormDragonZ

StormDragonZ

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

New York

W/R

It's reasonable to use the Envoy Staff to defeat Shiro Tagachi in the Nightfall mission Gate of Madness.

Think about it.

gremlin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2006

GWAR

Me/Mo

I'm lucky I don't like the skin that much and there are certainly staves with better performance.

Reverend Dr

Reverend Dr

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Super Fans Of Gaile [ban]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands of the Gods View Post
some situations where it may actually be useful.

Short Answer: There aren't any

Long Answer: When casting spells having a 40/40 wand/foci set is just flat out better than having a staff. Using a staff for casting is never the optimum thing to do. The one exception is having a 20/40 (or is it 40/20?) staff with 20% enchantments. The mods have 1 20% HSR and 2 20% HCT, there would be an actual argument for having an envoy with 2 20% HCT and 1 10% HCT, except that the 20%'s apply to the attribute on the weapon and there aren't any primary attributes enchantments that make this at all worthwhile.

Tangent Answer: If its PvE it really doesn't matter, just use what looks good, that's what everyone else does.

Fluffy Kittens

Guest

Join Date: Dec 2009

Are you trolling? There are tons of staves you can use.. Envoy is just a showoff

Coast

Coast

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Belgium

Whats Going On [sup]

Mo/

Best universal staff u'll ever get (unless they add new ones).
Buy 1 imo(perfect for holy veil etc or other skills that don't have hct otherwise)

pve and pvp: vital boon/pious restoration/remove hex/shadow refuge/shatterstorm/gaze of contempt/shroud/s form +more

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

Didn't notice that.

It sounds more like a bug than an intended feature. Someone should report it.

Hands of the Gods

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2009

Pittsburgh

Surpassing the Ordinary [Epic]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole View Post
Are you trolling? There are tons of staves you can use.. Envoy is just a showoff
Just asking a simple question, of course there are tons of staves - but it would make sense that as arguably one of the priciest staves in the game should at least be a little bit more useful.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemming View Post
You can do it with the preorder staves too, if that helps.
I don't think that will be super helpful to OP -- one's unmoddable and the other's tied to communing.

(And ixnay on the reorderpay itemay eskinningray ugbay. I don't want it ixedfay!)

The Drunkard

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2007

Still looking

Rt/

Aside from spamming PvE spells, it's inferior to using other sets.

gremlin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2006

GWAR

Me/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands of the Gods View Post
Just asking a simple question, of course there are tons of staves - but it would make sense that as arguably one of the priciest staves in the game should at least be a little bit more useful.
The envoy weapons are a puzzle to me, usually a weapon becomes pricey due to player interaction, this one has a higher than usual in game price set on it.

As you say other than the skin nothing sets it apart from other game staves.
A far more useful item imo is the hourglass staff and you can buy that with real money.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by gremlin View Post
The envoy weapons are a puzzle to me, usually a weapon becomes pricey due to player interaction, this one has a higher than usual in game price set on it.

As you say other than the skin nothing sets it apart from other game staves.
A far more useful item imo is the hourglass staff and you can buy that with real money.
Hourglass has some really dubious mods too. The dealbreaker is the 45hp/ench wrapping. Not only is it not a 20%ench mod (one of the two reasons it ever makes sense to use a staff over a wand+focus), it's a conditional hp mod. Yuck. The 10%HCT(all) mod is also kinda questionable, but there are at least a few builds with enough attribute spread to benefit from it. Overall, I'd say hourglass staff is hero-wear.

Random thought: Could you upgrade the Envoy Staff with a HCT head and a HCT inscription for triple fast cast mods? It looks like you could. Not sure if that's good for anything, but at least it's something you can't do with any other weapon.

jimbo32

jimbo32

Site Contributor

Join Date: Aug 2008

Canada

Gentlemens Club [GC]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by MithranArkanere View Post
Didn't notice that.

It sounds more like a bug than an intended feature. Someone should report it.
I assumed that at first as well, but the green staff with the envoy skin has the same mod setup. I suspect it's intended.

LicensedLuny

Badly Influenced

Join Date: Dec 2005

Buying Humps! (No kidding! Check my buy thread)

Hello Kitty Krewe [HKK] Forever!-ish

I thought some pictures might help, so I took one.

(Click for fullsize, 130 kb - 578 x 178)

That Arcane Staff on the left has attached mods that give the bonuses listed below the red box. The Envoy Staff on the right is a screenshot from visiting the gold zcoin NPC in GToB, so it is completely unmodded.

On the left is a normal, modern, inscribable staff with a max base:
Halves skill recharge of spells (Chance 20%)
(Please note this is 20HSR for all spells, not for spells of a specific attribute.)
Energy +10
<type> Dmg: 11-22 (Requires <#> <some attribute>)
(Any staff heads, staff wrappings or inscriptions allowed on either "weapons" or "spellcasting weapons" which triggers on the item's attribute will be based off this attribute.)
On the right is an Envoy Staff. It has a base unlike normal, inscribable staffs.
Energy +10
<type> Dmg: 11-22 (Requires <#> <some attribute>)
(Like a normal staff, any mods which trigger on the attribute will trigger on this listed attribute. The five available gold, moddable Envoy Staffs come in the five primary caster attributes; no other versions are available.)
Halves casting time of spells (Chance 10%)

The difference between the Envoy Staffs and most every other staff in the game is that they have 10HCT all spells as part of their base instead of 20HSR all spells.

Both staffs could be modded with:
  • Swift or Adept Staff Heads, giving either an additional 10% chance at HCT all spells or 20% chance at HCT for the staff's attribute's spells.
  • "Don't think twice" or "Aptitude not Attitude" inscriptions, giving the same two additional HCT chances as the staff heads above.
They will each give extra chances on top of the base 10HCT on the Envoy Staff, but they will stack as percentages. There is no mod allowed on any staff which increases the chances of halving spell recharge.


Hands of the Gods is asking folks if they know of a case where that would be a useful tradeoff. What situation(s) would it be worth giving up a one in five chance for half the recharge time on any spell you cast for the sake of a one in ten chance for half the cast time of any spell you cast? (Correct me if I'm wrong in my interpretation here, please.)


As to your question, I've looked at these staffs and wondered the same thing myself. The only situation in PvE I can think of is a caster/caller running Assassin's Promise. I'm not sure it makes sense in the context of meta PvE, powered by consets, because the celery reduces both skill (not just spell) recharge and activation times. I don't PvP, so I'm not goint to try guessing that one.

I think the new possibilities are interesting, but I wish they'd made the option more readily available in less-expensive forms for us to tinker with. As it stands now, I can't really justify the cost of getting a gold one, especially with it available in such a limited number of attributes.

The mods on the green one strike me as even less useful in general. It might make a nice mid-high-energy running staff to replace my pictured Arcane Staff, but I can't see why I'd want the mid-high-energy running staff to have a +30 suffix instead of an enchanting suffix.

Silmar Alech

Silmar Alech

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2009

Europe

Tom Son [TS]

E/

I don't understand why Arenanet put this 10% HCT on the Envoy staffs. This is an inferior mod for PvE use. I was happy when I heard that I can spend my accumulated Zaishen Coins to a new ultra exclusive weapon, but then I was very disappointed that the feature was removed that makes staves worth bringing: the 20% universal HSR.

With the widespread use of attribute-unrelated PvE spells, the universal 20% HSR of staves makes much sense. Reducing skill recharge usually comes with huge energy cost - there are skills for skill recharge reduction, and they make you spending approx. double energy. But with a staff, you get it free for 20% of your spells.

But 10% universal HCT, well, this is nothing I really need in PvE. If I need HCT, I bring a 40/40 set for the appropriate attribute.

So, my Zaishen Coins will continue to rot on one of my mule characters.

Coast

Coast

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Belgium

Whats Going On [sup]

Mo/

u can't 40%hct pve spells tho with a 40/40set, with the envoy u can at least get the highest possibility to get hct on those.

Silmar Alech

Silmar Alech

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2009

Europe

Tom Son [TS]

E/

But no one (well, at least me) needs hct for pve spells - the important ones already have 1s or faster casting time, which is fast enough. But halving recharge time for something like pain inverter or Ebon-Vanguard assassin support is really nice. This doubles the damage output for these skills, since you can use it twice in the same time frame.

Coast

Coast

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Belgium

Whats Going On [sup]

Mo/

why u need recharge time when theres aos and ap avaible...

mrseasonalt

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2008

ecto

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venganza View Post
Because all primary attrib only weps use that mod, I am surprised you don't already know this.
This is utterly wrong idk why you think this but Envoy staves are the only skin in the game that have this terrible mod since like the 2006 update.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazilla View Post
I use this type of staff in PvE almost exclusively. 10% on all spells is way more useful to me than 20% HSR of one attribute. I use a staff like this for my monk, ele, and mesmer. I would on Necro too, but that is the one class I don't play. It's great for Rits too because as a Rit you usually are running a few different attributes too.
You clearly dont have any idea of how staff mods work. The inherent 20% hsr that comes with every other staff in the game applies to all spells. The only time any hsr or hct affects a specific attribute is if you are talking about wands/offhands/adept staff heads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coast View Post
why u need recharge time when theres aos and ap avaible...
For high end pve Permas and Eles have skills like Sliver that are not maintainable. None of those bars have AoS (which in itself is not a good skill at all for recharghing skills) and cant have AP obviously. The 20% HSR essentially lets u put up another Sliver 20% of the time where as u wouldnt be able to with a 10% hct.

In regards to the OP I had the exact same question when the envoys first came out because in pve the mod is pretty much inferior in almost all cases. The OP was simply asking for places where the mod could somehow be more useful than the 20% HSR and the only one off the top of my head that I could think of would be maybe Veil on an E/mo where you are actively trying to avoid rupts and are using skills not of your primary attribute.

Coast

Coast

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Belgium

Whats Going On [sup]

Mo/

hsr is bad for 4horseman tho,(sig of hum)

mrseasonalt

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2008

ecto

E/

Yeah I know but most people know to switch to a shield set for 4h. In every other instance of terras in UW or Fow the HSR is much more beneficial

Mordiego

Mordiego

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2007

Pozna??, UTC+1

We Are From Poland [Pol]

N/A

two cents: Assassin's Promise builds