Situations where it's reasonable to use Envoy Staff?
Hands of the Gods
Figured I'd gather a few peoples' opinions on some situations where it may actually be useful.
I've given it some thought, and the only thing I can think of is an AP caller build - I refuse to shell out so much ecto for something that really is actually less efficient than the staff I currently use, and that sucks because I really like the skin.
What gives?
Feel free to share your thoughts and (Heleyne's) insights. HO HO HO I MADE A PUN
Happy Holidays!
EDIT: Seems we have some oblivious players; Envoy Staff has an inherent 10%HCT instead of 20%HSR - which is the dilemma. I thought everyone knew this by now.
I've given it some thought, and the only thing I can think of is an AP caller build - I refuse to shell out so much ecto for something that really is actually less efficient than the staff I currently use, and that sucks because I really like the skin.
What gives?
Feel free to share your thoughts and (Heleyne's) insights. HO HO HO I MADE A PUN
Happy Holidays!
EDIT: Seems we have some oblivious players; Envoy Staff has an inherent 10%HCT instead of 20%HSR - which is the dilemma. I thought everyone knew this by now.
Maya Cerestiez
Well.. it is only about the skin. Don't really understand what you want.
Hands of the Gods
except, it's not only about the skin.
Envoy staff has an inherent 10%HCT on spells, while all normal staves have 20%HSR - if you know anything about GW mechanics and usage then you would understand the dilemma.
What I want is for someone to suggest some scenarios where it would be viably useful, thus validating the reason for purchasing it.
Not even for personal use, just for curiosity's sake.
Envoy staff has an inherent 10%HCT on spells, while all normal staves have 20%HSR - if you know anything about GW mechanics and usage then you would understand the dilemma.
What I want is for someone to suggest some scenarios where it would be viably useful, thus validating the reason for purchasing it.
Not even for personal use, just for curiosity's sake.
neighto
ugh.. Its an epeen item.
i think you already answered your own question by the edit you placed on your OP.
If you want something functional.. then dont buy it.. if you just want to show off that you wasted a lot of money for a somewhat useless modded "pretty" staff then go ahead..
really not a hard choice here mate..
i think you already answered your own question by the edit you placed on your OP.
If you want something functional.. then dont buy it.. if you just want to show off that you wasted a lot of money for a somewhat useless modded "pretty" staff then go ahead..
really not a hard choice here mate..
jazilla
Quote:
except, it's not only about the skin.
Envoy staff has an inherent 10%HCT on spells, while all normal staves have 20%HSR - if you know anything about GW mechanics and usage then you would understand the dilemma. What I want is for someone to suggest some scenarios where it would be viably useful, thus validating the reason for purchasing it. Not even for personal use, just for curiosity's sake. |
Jim Beam
well it could be helpful for the emo bonder build seeing as how your spamming 0 cd spells most of the time.
Hands of the Gods
It's not that I don't think it's entirely functional, it could be well used in *certain* areas - I was just wanting to promote some thought and see if anyone else was able to come up with other ideas.
Basically, where could you use this staff where it would outclass other weapon options?
I'm not lobbying for it or anything, the inquiring mind would like to know is all.
@Jim Beam - Awesome! That's the exact sort of input I was looking for, thanks
@Jazilla - You're aware it's 10% Half Casting Time, right?
The only situations I can think of it coming in handy is where your bar is mainly compromised of spells from a different profession.
i.e.; FC Mesmer Nukers -but why use this instead of the attributes 40/40
This damn thing is such a headache, I wish Anet would've just released two versions or something along each attrib line.
Basically, where could you use this staff where it would outclass other weapon options?
I'm not lobbying for it or anything, the inquiring mind would like to know is all.
@Jim Beam - Awesome! That's the exact sort of input I was looking for, thanks
@Jazilla - You're aware it's 10% Half Casting Time, right?
The only situations I can think of it coming in handy is where your bar is mainly compromised of spells from a different profession.
i.e.; FC Mesmer Nukers -but why use this instead of the attributes 40/40
This damn thing is such a headache, I wish Anet would've just released two versions or something along each attrib line.
_Aphotic_
-Perhaps while being camped by a mesmer/ranger in PvP.
-[If you're not using 40/40] and maybe being a prot monk, since prots generally last longer than your general recharges (both if using 20% enchant staff, and usually w/out as well). (Enchant strips on prots are occasional, and only if coordinated- in this meta, the eles should be prioritized to kill their energy). I'm sure there's more to this...
Yeah, but since the HCT is rather puny and the fact it's primary attribute locked limits it's usefulness.
-[If you're not using 40/40] and maybe being a prot monk, since prots generally last longer than your general recharges (both if using 20% enchant staff, and usually w/out as well). (Enchant strips on prots are occasional, and only if coordinated- in this meta, the eles should be prioritized to kill their energy). I'm sure there's more to this...
Yeah, but since the HCT is rather puny and the fact it's primary attribute locked limits it's usefulness.
Gabriel of Ravn
If you want half casting time 10% get any modifiable staff and I mean any and slap a swift staff head. Problem solved you spent a few k at the most instead of 20e or so for the green.
Hands of the Gods
It's not that I want the HCT, remotely.
Mainly, I'm curious why Anet would put such a questionable mod on a high-end weapon - and so, I wonder where it could be appropriately used.
Surely they had to have a few ideas in mind.
I just think it's a little daft to essentially take such a nice staff out of the game for serious endgame players when endgame players are really the only ones who'd be able to afford /and/or/ are willing to buy it.
Mainly, I'm curious why Anet would put such a questionable mod on a high-end weapon - and so, I wonder where it could be appropriately used.
Surely they had to have a few ideas in mind.
I just think it's a little daft to essentially take such a nice staff out of the game for serious endgame players when endgame players are really the only ones who'd be able to afford /and/or/ are willing to buy it.
Venganza
ErrantVenture
Uh why don't you just shell out the 250 rps for the reward skin?
Lanier
lemming
You can do it with the preorder staves too, if that helps.
StormDragonZ
It's reasonable to use the Envoy Staff to defeat Shiro Tagachi in the Nightfall mission Gate of Madness.
Think about it.
Think about it.
gremlin
I'm lucky I don't like the skin that much and there are certainly staves with better performance.
Reverend Dr
Short Answer: There aren't any
Long Answer: When casting spells having a 40/40 wand/foci set is just flat out better than having a staff. Using a staff for casting is never the optimum thing to do. The one exception is having a 20/40 (or is it 40/20?) staff with 20% enchantments. The mods have 1 20% HSR and 2 20% HCT, there would be an actual argument for having an envoy with 2 20% HCT and 1 10% HCT, except that the 20%'s apply to the attribute on the weapon and there aren't any primary attributes enchantments that make this at all worthwhile.
Tangent Answer: If its PvE it really doesn't matter, just use what looks good, that's what everyone else does.
Fluffy Kittens
Are you trolling? There are tons of staves you can use.. Envoy is just a showoff
Coast
Best universal staff u'll ever get (unless they add new ones).
Buy 1 imo(perfect for holy veil etc or other skills that don't have hct otherwise)
pve and pvp: vital boon/pious restoration/remove hex/shadow refuge/shatterstorm/gaze of contempt/shroud/s form +more
Buy 1 imo(perfect for holy veil etc or other skills that don't have hct otherwise)
pve and pvp: vital boon/pious restoration/remove hex/shadow refuge/shatterstorm/gaze of contempt/shroud/s form +more
MithranArkanere
Didn't notice that.
It sounds more like a bug than an intended feature. Someone should report it.
It sounds more like a bug than an intended feature. Someone should report it.
Hands of the Gods
Just asking a simple question, of course there are tons of staves - but it would make sense that as arguably one of the priciest staves in the game should at least be a little bit more useful.
Chthon
The Drunkard
Aside from spamming PvE spells, it's inferior to using other sets.
gremlin
Quote:
Just asking a simple question, of course there are tons of staves - but it would make sense that as arguably one of the priciest staves in the game should at least be a little bit more useful.
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As you say other than the skin nothing sets it apart from other game staves.
A far more useful item imo is the hourglass staff and you can buy that with real money.
Chthon
Quote:
The envoy weapons are a puzzle to me, usually a weapon becomes pricey due to player interaction, this one has a higher than usual in game price set on it.
As you say other than the skin nothing sets it apart from other game staves. A far more useful item imo is the hourglass staff and you can buy that with real money. |
Random thought: Could you upgrade the Envoy Staff with a HCT head and a HCT inscription for triple fast cast mods? It looks like you could. Not sure if that's good for anything, but at least it's something you can't do with any other weapon.
jimbo32
LicensedLuny
I thought some pictures might help, so I took one.
(Click for fullsize, 130 kb - 578 x 178)
That Arcane Staff on the left has attached mods that give the bonuses listed below the red box. The Envoy Staff on the right is a screenshot from visiting the gold zcoin NPC in GToB, so it is completely unmodded.
On the left is a normal, modern, inscribable staff with a max base:
The difference between the Envoy Staffs and most every other staff in the game is that they have 10HCT all spells as part of their base instead of 20HSR all spells.
Both staffs could be modded with:
Hands of the Gods is asking folks if they know of a case where that would be a useful tradeoff. What situation(s) would it be worth giving up a one in five chance for half the recharge time on any spell you cast for the sake of a one in ten chance for half the cast time of any spell you cast? (Correct me if I'm wrong in my interpretation here, please.)
As to your question, I've looked at these staffs and wondered the same thing myself. The only situation in PvE I can think of is a caster/caller running Assassin's Promise. I'm not sure it makes sense in the context of meta PvE, powered by consets, because the celery reduces both skill (not just spell) recharge and activation times. I don't PvP, so I'm not goint to try guessing that one.
I think the new possibilities are interesting, but I wish they'd made the option more readily available in less-expensive forms for us to tinker with. As it stands now, I can't really justify the cost of getting a gold one, especially with it available in such a limited number of attributes.
The mods on the green one strike me as even less useful in general. It might make a nice mid-high-energy running staff to replace my pictured Arcane Staff, but I can't see why I'd want the mid-high-energy running staff to have a +30 suffix instead of an enchanting suffix.
(Click for fullsize, 130 kb - 578 x 178)
That Arcane Staff on the left has attached mods that give the bonuses listed below the red box. The Envoy Staff on the right is a screenshot from visiting the gold zcoin NPC in GToB, so it is completely unmodded.
On the left is a normal, modern, inscribable staff with a max base:
Halves skill recharge of spells (Chance 20%)On the right is an Envoy Staff. It has a base unlike normal, inscribable staffs.(Please note this is 20HSR for all spells, not for spells of a specific attribute.)Energy +10
<type> Dmg: 11-22 (Requires <#> <some attribute>)(Any staff heads, staff wrappings or inscriptions allowed on either "weapons" or "spellcasting weapons" which triggers on the item's attribute will be based off this attribute.)
Energy +10
<type> Dmg: 11-22 (Requires <#> <some attribute>)(Like a normal staff, any mods which trigger on the attribute will trigger on this listed attribute. The five available gold, moddable Envoy Staffs come in the five primary caster attributes; no other versions are available.)Halves casting time of spells (Chance 10%)
The difference between the Envoy Staffs and most every other staff in the game is that they have 10HCT all spells as part of their base instead of 20HSR all spells.
Both staffs could be modded with:
- Swift or Adept Staff Heads, giving either an additional 10% chance at HCT all spells or 20% chance at HCT for the staff's attribute's spells.
- "Don't think twice" or "Aptitude not Attitude" inscriptions, giving the same two additional HCT chances as the staff heads above.
Hands of the Gods is asking folks if they know of a case where that would be a useful tradeoff. What situation(s) would it be worth giving up a one in five chance for half the recharge time on any spell you cast for the sake of a one in ten chance for half the cast time of any spell you cast? (Correct me if I'm wrong in my interpretation here, please.)
As to your question, I've looked at these staffs and wondered the same thing myself. The only situation in PvE I can think of is a caster/caller running Assassin's Promise. I'm not sure it makes sense in the context of meta PvE, powered by consets, because the celery reduces both skill (not just spell) recharge and activation times. I don't PvP, so I'm not goint to try guessing that one.
I think the new possibilities are interesting, but I wish they'd made the option more readily available in less-expensive forms for us to tinker with. As it stands now, I can't really justify the cost of getting a gold one, especially with it available in such a limited number of attributes.
The mods on the green one strike me as even less useful in general. It might make a nice mid-high-energy running staff to replace my pictured Arcane Staff, but I can't see why I'd want the mid-high-energy running staff to have a +30 suffix instead of an enchanting suffix.
Silmar Alech
I don't understand why Arenanet put this 10% HCT on the Envoy staffs. This is an inferior mod for PvE use. I was happy when I heard that I can spend my accumulated Zaishen Coins to a new ultra exclusive weapon, but then I was very disappointed that the feature was removed that makes staves worth bringing: the 20% universal HSR.
With the widespread use of attribute-unrelated PvE spells, the universal 20% HSR of staves makes much sense. Reducing skill recharge usually comes with huge energy cost - there are skills for skill recharge reduction, and they make you spending approx. double energy. But with a staff, you get it free for 20% of your spells.
But 10% universal HCT, well, this is nothing I really need in PvE. If I need HCT, I bring a 40/40 set for the appropriate attribute.
So, my Zaishen Coins will continue to rot on one of my mule characters.
With the widespread use of attribute-unrelated PvE spells, the universal 20% HSR of staves makes much sense. Reducing skill recharge usually comes with huge energy cost - there are skills for skill recharge reduction, and they make you spending approx. double energy. But with a staff, you get it free for 20% of your spells.
But 10% universal HCT, well, this is nothing I really need in PvE. If I need HCT, I bring a 40/40 set for the appropriate attribute.
So, my Zaishen Coins will continue to rot on one of my mule characters.
Coast
u can't 40%hct pve spells tho with a 40/40set, with the envoy u can at least get the highest possibility to get hct on those.
Silmar Alech
But no one (well, at least me) needs hct for pve spells - the important ones already have 1s or faster casting time, which is fast enough. But halving recharge time for something like pain inverter or Ebon-Vanguard assassin support is really nice. This doubles the damage output for these skills, since you can use it twice in the same time frame.
Coast
why u need recharge time when theres aos and ap avaible...
mrseasonalt
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Because all primary attrib only weps use that mod, I am surprised you don't already know this.
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I use this type of staff in PvE almost exclusively. 10% on all spells is way more useful to me than 20% HSR of one attribute. I use a staff like this for my monk, ele, and mesmer. I would on Necro too, but that is the one class I don't play. It's great for Rits too because as a Rit you usually are running a few different attributes too.
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For high end pve Permas and Eles have skills like Sliver that are not maintainable. None of those bars have AoS (which in itself is not a good skill at all for recharghing skills) and cant have AP obviously. The 20% HSR essentially lets u put up another Sliver 20% of the time where as u wouldnt be able to with a 10% hct.
In regards to the OP I had the exact same question when the envoys first came out because in pve the mod is pretty much inferior in almost all cases. The OP was simply asking for places where the mod could somehow be more useful than the 20% HSR and the only one off the top of my head that I could think of would be maybe Veil on an E/mo where you are actively trying to avoid rupts and are using skills not of your primary attribute.
Coast
hsr is bad for 4horseman tho,(sig of hum)
mrseasonalt
Yeah I know but most people know to switch to a shield set for 4h. In every other instance of terras in UW or Fow the HSR is much more beneficial
Mordiego
two cents: Assassin's Promise builds