Deep Wound or quick-attack?
HigherMinion
Halp numbers!
I am *pretty* certain that a quick-activating dagger chain (JS-FF-DB) will cause more damage WITHOUT Golden Fang Strike; at least, potentially.
If anyone can make more accurate numbers; I compared the fact that JS+FF with both trigger in the same second that GFS triggers. I am also positive Exhausting Assault would be a better secondary attack to slot, as it's also a 1/2 activating AND a dual. Making it lolfast trigger for your buffs.
I was running under the assumption you would be under [email protected], [email protected] and the foe has cracked armour. It is quite usual for an assassin player to build a team like this (or 10 smiting if hybrid Orders).
To clarify, my question is this:
Is taking Golden Fang Strike better than using Jagged Strike for a second time, or Exhausting Assault?
If I'm wrong, do let me know.
I am *pretty* certain that a quick-activating dagger chain (JS-FF-DB) will cause more damage WITHOUT Golden Fang Strike; at least, potentially.
If anyone can make more accurate numbers; I compared the fact that JS+FF with both trigger in the same second that GFS triggers. I am also positive Exhausting Assault would be a better secondary attack to slot, as it's also a 1/2 activating AND a dual. Making it lolfast trigger for your buffs.
I was running under the assumption you would be under [email protected], [email protected] and the foe has cracked armour. It is quite usual for an assassin player to build a team like this (or 10 smiting if hybrid Orders).
To clarify, my question is this:
Is taking Golden Fang Strike better than using Jagged Strike for a second time, or Exhausting Assault?
If I'm wrong, do let me know.
Kendil
If your looking at pure dps then I suggest you try it out yourself on the master of damage.
I'm not a numbers expert, so I can't help you if you look for more variables than simple dps to 1 enemy.
I'm not a numbers expert, so I can't help you if you look for more variables than simple dps to 1 enemy.
Toraen
MoD doesn't factor Deep Wound so he'd be useless here.
HigherMinion
ultimak719
The MoD does give how long it took until death, in seconds, and I believe that takes into account deep wound. So you could try that.
Anaraky
Correct me if I'm wrong, but AFAIK Deep Wound damage caps at 100. Assuming that is the case.
Golden Fang Strikes damage(z) is: buffs + baseDMG + 100
Jagged Strikes damage is: buffs + baseDMG
Exhausting Assaults damage is: buffs*2 + baseDMG*2
Fox Fangs damage is: buffs + baseDMG + X
However, as you pointed out, GFS has a longer activation time. If we assume it takes twice as long to recharge we can use one of three combos in the time GFS takes to cast.
#1: JS + JS
#2: JS + FF
#3: JS + EA
#1's damage(y1): buffs*2 + baseDMG*2
#2's damage(y2): buffs*2 + baseDMG*2 + X
#3's damage(y3): buffs*3 + baseDMG*3
Looking at the above, whenever y1/2/3 exceeds z they are superior.
Assuming 13 dagger mastery, 16 SoH, 16 OoP. X = 32, buffs = (26 + 17).
y1 = 86 + baseDMG*2
y2 = 118 + baseDMG*2
y3 = 129 + baseDMG*3
z = 143 + baseDMG
When baseDMG ≥ 57, y1 is better then z.
When baseDMG ≥ 25, y2 is better then z.
When baseDMG ≥ 7, y3 is better then z.
baseDMG = the damage a single unbuffed hit does, on Cracked Armor.
Anyway, hope that answers your question.
Edit: Didn't account for baseDMG.
Golden Fang Strikes damage(z) is: buffs + baseDMG + 100
Jagged Strikes damage is: buffs + baseDMG
Exhausting Assaults damage is: buffs*2 + baseDMG*2
Fox Fangs damage is: buffs + baseDMG + X
However, as you pointed out, GFS has a longer activation time. If we assume it takes twice as long to recharge we can use one of three combos in the time GFS takes to cast.
#1: JS + JS
#2: JS + FF
#3: JS + EA
#1's damage(y1): buffs*2 + baseDMG*2
#2's damage(y2): buffs*2 + baseDMG*2 + X
#3's damage(y3): buffs*3 + baseDMG*3
Looking at the above, whenever y1/2/3 exceeds z they are superior.
Assuming 13 dagger mastery, 16 SoH, 16 OoP. X = 32, buffs = (26 + 17).
y1 = 86 + baseDMG*2
y2 = 118 + baseDMG*2
y3 = 129 + baseDMG*3
z = 143 + baseDMG
When baseDMG ≥ 57, y1 is better then z.
When baseDMG ≥ 25, y2 is better then z.
When baseDMG ≥ 7, y3 is better then z.
baseDMG = the damage a single unbuffed hit does, on Cracked Armor.
Anyway, hope that answers your question.
Edit: Didn't account for baseDMG.
Reformed
Really depends on whether or not the target lives past the second chain. In either scenario you will be cycling JS-FF-DB every other chain anyways due to recharges.
Toraen
From that, it seems JS+JS doesn't exceed GFS (even with CA, dagger base damage won't be 57 or more in HM, probably not even in NM), and JS+FF doesn't really matter because the point of GFS is to use it during FF's recharge. EA is clearly better, but at 8r it won't be available during as many "FF still recharging" moments. GFS also can lead straight into another DB, which none of the other combos do (might not matter, but I don't know exactly how the attack speeds vs. recharges would play out).
Anaraky
JS = baseDMG + buffs
EA = baseDMG*2 + buffs*2
FF = baseDMG + buffs + X
GFS = baseDMG + buffs + DW
DB = baseDMG*2 + buffs*2 + Y*N
JS-EA-JS-FF-DB = baseDMG*7 + buffs*7 + X + Y*N
JS-GFS-DB-JS-FF-DB = baseDMG*8 + buffs*8 + X + (Y*N)*2 + DW
As you can see, the second one does somewhat higher damage even if we don't include Deep Wound. The thing is though that the second one takes 4.5s to finish, if we assume DB and GFS takes exactly one second and the rest take exactly half a second to activate, while the first one takes 3s. Keep in mind that EA has a fairly long cooldown and thus the first combo isn't really repeatable without modification, while the second one is almost completely repeatable (1s lag, assuming perfect timing) and does more total damage.
Edit: Fixed some errors.
EA = baseDMG*2 + buffs*2
FF = baseDMG + buffs + X
GFS = baseDMG + buffs + DW
DB = baseDMG*2 + buffs*2 + Y*N
JS-EA-JS-FF-DB = baseDMG*7 + buffs*7 + X + Y*N
JS-GFS-DB-JS-FF-DB = baseDMG*8 + buffs*8 + X + (Y*N)*2 + DW
As you can see, the second one does somewhat higher damage even if we don't include Deep Wound. The thing is though that the second one takes 4.5s to finish, if we assume DB and GFS takes exactly one second and the rest take exactly half a second to activate, while the first one takes 3s. Keep in mind that EA has a fairly long cooldown and thus the first combo isn't really repeatable without modification, while the second one is almost completely repeatable (1s lag, assuming perfect timing) and does more total damage.
Edit: Fixed some errors.
ErrantVenture
Deepwound is used as much for the healing reduction as the max health reduction it causes. Over the entire duration of the enchantment it will either negate enough healing to be more worthwhile than another fast-dagger-attack or will force the enemy into expending energy to move it.
If you're a physical class with access to DW, you should ALWAYS bring it.
If you're a physical class with access to DW, you should ALWAYS bring it.
Lukyboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaraky
JS-GFS-DB-FF-DB = baseDMG*7 + buffs*7 + X + (Y*N)*2 + DW
I think you forgot a JS
JS-GFS-DB-JS-FF-DB = baseDMG*8 + buffs*8 + X + (Y*N)*2 + DW
and it now also takes half a second longer then you originally stated, which, if I understand you correctly, would actually benefit its repeatability
Anaraky
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukyboy
I think you forgot a JS
JS-GFS-DB-JS-FF-DB = baseDMG*8 + buffs*8 + X + (Y*N)*2 + DW
and it now also takes half a second longer then you originally stated, which, if I understand you correctly, would actually benefit its repeatability You are correct, that will teach me not to do math before breakfast.
JS-GFS-DB-JS-FF-DB = baseDMG*8 + buffs*8 + X + (Y*N)*2 + DW
and it now also takes half a second longer then you originally stated, which, if I understand you correctly, would actually benefit its repeatability You are correct, that will teach me not to do math before breakfast.
Coast
take deep wound, especially with the hm update coming later
HigherMinion
Well, base damage will be a bit higher, so that puts even more favour in EA's court. I think, if you want a secondary attack it should be for utility; Brawling for KD or EA for rupt. The application of the maths may be largely irrelevant, unfortunately...