Argh! This game is hard!

Cravenmagic

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2011

R/N

Warning ahead of time, this will be an extremely angst ridden post due to having spent a few days (literal) trying to figure out how to prevent the following issues.


I have a Rit who has a full part of heros. I am in EotN and trying to track down the bear, but every time we head out from an outpost and I attempt to attack a group of ANYTHING I am singled out and insta-killed and then my group also dies.
I played wow where aggro was controlled in a superior way compared to this game. In this game it feels like luck if I ever get out of a fight without half my heros and/or myself dying.

So what am I to do? I have tried flagging my group in place and then using a bow to hit an enemy and then run behind said group, I still get wasted the moment I try to help by casting a spell at any point in the fight after that. I have tried sending MOX in ahead to attract the mobs attention and then have the group move in, but nope, same thing as soon as I try to help at all I am pick blasted to death. Friggen aggro rules seem to be made by third graders.

How does combat work exactly? I have read the wiki, I have read tons of posts but nothing works. Hell spamming the ctrl+space doesn't even work right, if a hero has already started attacking something other than what I am signaling to attack they rarely ever change who they are attacking until what they are attacking is dead first... exasperating.

So how do you all do it, because I am only a few more attempts away at this point from trashing this game and personally labeling it the worst piece of shit ever! Dying should not be this easy, why is this game so unintuitive...

The heros are; Koss, Dunkoro, Olias, Ogden Stonehealer, Vekk, Gwen, and MOX. Koss is 17, Dunkoro is 18, the rest are 20.

Iuris

Iuris

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

Crazy ducks from the Forest

W/

First, stop being the obvious target and upgrade your armor.

GW aggro is simply different. You can't manipulate it quite into forcing enemies into attacking your well protected heroes and leaving you alone - as soon as you enter the combat by attacking or supporting allies, you become an eligible target, AI will target the weaker party members first, considering armor and HP.

So, you'll have to use use some protective measures. Boost your armor, get Protective spirit on yourself and similar.

There are ways to get the enemies to attack only one character, but that's only worth it in terms of setting up a tank and then spiking the grouped up foes. Stuff for coordinated groups, not regular play.

Neith

Neith

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2008

Texas

One in Guild Wars

R/

My First question to you would be what level armor are you wearing? is it max armor? what level are you? what builds do you and your heroes have? Giving us your voice of fustration doesn't solve the problem we need to know what you have as far as skills, armor, heroes, their skills...etc....in order to help

WarcryOfTruth

WarcryOfTruth

Site Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2009

Atlanta

[LIFE]

P/

We've all been where you are Craven. It seems that you probably need to upgrade your armor first. Second, builds don't matter much in NM, much less missions. Only a few times is there an exception to this. As long as your heroes have something related to their profession, and proper attributes respective to their skills, you won't have trouble. It's frustrating just starting out, everyone here knows that. Just keep at it, ask people in towns, some may very well assist you. However, in order to find the exact help you are probably wanting, like the two above me said, we need more information.

Star_Jewel

Star_Jewel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2010

Denizen of Tyria since Feb. 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iuris View Post
AI will target the weaker party members first, considering armor and HP.
This. As a caster, your max base armor rating is 60. Dervishes, Assassins and Rangers get 70. Warriors and Paragons get 80.

So things will run past MOX and Koss to target the squishies most of the time.

You need to make sure you have max armor (available in Kaineng Center) and you should consider putting appropriate runes and insignias on it. The choice is yours between HP-boosters or armor-boosters. Either will help you become less of a target, if you have more armor and hitpoints than your heroes.

Additionally, if you're healing your party, I'm pretty sure the AI will try to prioritize you as a target.

Lastly, AoE foes love clumps. When you run to the back line of your group, make sure you're away from them a little bit so you don't get hit by an area bomb.

As said, Protective Spirit is a valuable skill to have on one of your heroes. As you get more familiar with the game, you can recognize the bigger threats and micro pre-protting yourself before you engage. (You are outfitting your heroes with skills other than their defaults, right? Apologies for stating the obvious, but a lot of new players miss this important step.)

Porkchop Sandwhiches

Porkchop Sandwhiches

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fishing Village in Wizard's Folly

R/

I am an old EQ player and personally don't mind the lack of needing a taunting tank. Besides what people have already suggested to you (get the best rating armor and increase your health with runes), I see that you are running with Olias; a Necromancer. I would suggest that if he is not already a minion master to make him into one as minions tend to be a great body block and agro distractor.

Additionally, Guild Wars has the best wiki I have ever seen for an MMO, which is located here. It may be of some help.

Good luck.

Wenspire

Wenspire

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2008

USA - W.Coast

HiME

Mo/

If you are getting instagibbed, my guess is that your armor is not a maxed set (which you should have by the time you become level 20).

Heroes will attack whatever you "call" (by holding CTRL+action) and will focus only on that target.


EDIT: Forgot to ask how much HP do you have? As a possible cause, I hope you are not equipped with a lot of Superior or Major runes.

Markaedw

Markaedw

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

N/

I play a rit so I know where you are coming from. There are a few things you can do to help yourself survive.

1. Upgrade your armor with the best vigor rune you can afford. Then upgrade your armor insignias with mystic or stalwart, as they both increase armor and are affordable. Try to not have more than one superior skill rune on you. Keep your health in the 450 and up range.

2. When you get ready to attack do a little prep work. Target the enemy, but don't move in yet, lock Koss and MOX on it by using the target icon their hero bar.

3. Try to avoid being a target by not getting to close to the enemy so that they leave koss and start attacking you, try to stay as far back as you can and still cast spells.

4. When you attack a new target hold the ctrl button as you do it, that will cause the hero AI to select it as a priority.

Meow Ren

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2011

Black Hand Gang

R/

@ OP:

As others have mentioned, you may want to check to make sure you have max and runed armor for your toon.

A few other questions:

- What skills are you using? Post your skillbar and ppl can help you out there. You'll get skills following the storyline in Factions, but they can be rather mixed. It's best to not try to spread your attribute points too thin until you get the hang of the game. General rule of thumb: your attribute points should ideally be spread amongst no more than 2-3 attributes. And one of those should be Spawning Power, which is a rit's primary attribute.

- Does your toon have a max damage weapon? Or at least one better suited to the level they're at? And does it complement their skillbar?

- What skills are your heroes using? They come with a partial default skill bar, but it's up to you to pick and choose which skills they use to make them more effective. Same rules for spreading attribute points applies to heroes.

- Heroes come with default weapons and armor. The armor scales as their level goes up, the weapons don't for the most part. Are your NF heroes still using their "noob" weapons? Are your heroes runed? Heroes are part of your team and should be given better gear as it becomes available.

- You may also want to check the "behavior" settings for all your heroes. Wiki article here explains the mechanics. Some come by default set to "attack anything that moves". Personally, I also set my healers to "Avoid Combat". If your healers are fighting...they're not healing or protecting the party.

- Additionally, have you done the two quests on the starter island to get your character their last 30 attribute points? This will give you a full 200 points to spread out and helps a lot in powering your skillbar.

enter_the_zone

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

In addition to what everyone has said here, I'd advise against superior runes (other than vigor), since they're just not needed in PVE for general usage builds. Another tip is to always keep your maximum health slightly higher than your heroes.

It's not a bad idea to go back to Nightfall and complete it now you have the EoTN heroes, or at least enough to make a decent team build more workable. Also make sure you have some level of (or epic levels of, your choice) mitigation in your build.

For instance, Vekk as a Sandstorm Earth warder, Ogden as a WoH Hybrid prot. Minion masters and spirit spammers are also good options. Even as a Rit, and even if you're spamming spirits yourself, a second spammer with an alternate bar is a huge boon. If you haven't got a rit hero to use, you can use a ranger hero, since Rit spirits are affected by Expertise.

Also, if you're really new, your heroes are going to probably be gimped to hell by the skills you have unlocked. So, you can either buy the PVP skill unlock packs, or be very frugal with which skills you choose to unlock.

Highlander Of Alba

Highlander Of Alba

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Real Rogue Clan

Rt/Mo

well a lot of things seem to be covered by others here.One thing is eye of the north the expansion was made even tho you get a buff if under 20 was ment to be for chars that have completed respective campaigns.

Iwould disagree on some things you have said wow is gear orientated not skill orientated like gw1

You have to think more in this game as the party has to have synergy with one another.
you should have a look at pvx for an idea of team builds get max armour and rune them I do think you feel you can just wear what you want thats the reason you bite the dust as Rit in itself is strong so head back over and get some skills for you and your heros.

Make a pvp char do the challange missions for faction to buy skills for heros then you can delete it when done if so desired
yes I know everyones playstyle is different but think you are jumping to far ahead of yourself without learning the game as you go. you are hoping for the best as you enter an area to be honest you should read up in the campfire section to prepare for a better gameplay

Cravenmagic

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2011

R/N

Whew ok I have cooled down (played mindless hack and smash in Dungeon Defenders, worked wonders) and start again.

Well somehow I did overlook the armor thing... I was focused on what to do in the fight, not before it.
Most guides I have been reading tell me to do EotN first, then NF>factions>Proph. But none of these guides mentioned more than a footnote about armor, they just said "go do teh quests!".

I'll still say this game is seriously not intuitive.
I'll also say thank you to all who replied and are giving me some insight.
I am a big "Point A" to "Point B" person.
So when a game doesn't tell me what I need to do to stop failing, I am at a loss. A game should not need me to read the entire wiki just to figure out what to do right?

I mean I will read the wiki, and have a bit, but I have not found the section (if there is one) that lays out the step by step progression to learning how to play this game. And again the game should seriously do this but so far it feels more like the game gives me some options as to what I do next but then doesn't explain them (like which armor set to get, there are apparently many? and the only difference is a name and the look but they are the same grade?"


So to describe myself, Silly noob is frustrated.

Ritualist Veggie

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2011

The Netherlands

[Mu Tants]

N/Rt

Upgrading armor isnt something you need to read.. it's something you need to think of yourself it's basic knowledge in these kind of games.
nonetheless, good luck on your adventure.

Stephanie Goldenbow

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2011

SC

AKA-Azz Kicking Association

R/

Another thing to do is join a helpful guild. Having real people able to answer questions and help you in real time will eliminate much of your frustration.

BrettM

BrettM

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2008

Fuzzy Physics Institute

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravenmagic View Post
Most guides I have been reading tell me to do EotN first, then NF>factions>Proph.
Any guide that says that is seriously whacked. The foes in EotN are generally tougher than those in any of the campaigns, with a more-balanced mix of professions in most groups, using a mix of skills from all the campaigns. An experienced GW player trying to rush a new character through the game might go to EotN to level, but this is not advisable for someone completely new to Guild Wars who does not yet have many skills unlocked and has little experience with the core mechanics and strategies involved. Jumping directly into one of the harder parts of the game is not a recipe for success.

I would suggest that you return to either Factions or Nightfall and play through at least one campaign before tackling EotN. EotN is just not a newbie-friendly learning environment, and was not meant to be, which is why you can't create a character there.

enter_the_zone

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

Yeah, the guides you're reading are probably suggesting that order because it's the most efficient method for completing the games.... but it's intended to be used primarily for your subsequent characters, not your first playthrough.

Personally, I'd say getting a few EoTN heroes is a sensible step, but the thing to remember is that EoTN is, by far, the hardest content in the "standard" game (ie. not GW : Beyond content), and EoTN itself is intended as end game content so the learning curve is basically non-existent.

And just to clarify about the armor (because the wiki is pretty piss poor when it comes to armor, both the official wiki and guildwiki), once you've got maximum armor (60AL for a Rit) the differences between the sets are entirely cosmetic. Some sets cost a lot more than others because they're the prestige armor art, but they're identical to the first max armor you get in terms of functionality.

Similarly, you might find some weapons are ridiculously expensive.... this is entirely to do with their look (and the rarity of the skin), and nothing at all to do with functionality (for the most part anyway).

Dewshine Wildclaw

Dewshine Wildclaw

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2008

Planet Earth

Weapons Of Tyria [WoT]

R/

Might help you to go back to either factions or nightfall I agree with BrettM on that. For most part I didn't use wiki on my very first playthrough, I used it only when I was in doubt and could usually find what I needed. Ofc. I have been stuck at places too and been frustrated... isn't that what happens in these kinda games? Prophesies, factions and nightfall is where the learning curve is, in eotn you are expected to already have learned most there is to know.

I hope you'll go back to one of the campaigns, get the slightly slower learning curve and perhaps find this game as enjoyable as others here do
Finding a good guild can be helpful too, (if you haven't already) not all guilds are newb friendly, but others are.

Green Sscythe

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2011

Oscen Ex Merito

D/

BrettM is correct, the best one to start with (my opinion feel free to disagree) is NF cause its very learner friendly and you get the Heroes which are of course awesome. But if you do an actual story mode, it DOES remind you to do things like Armor and Skills. Also joining a guild is very beneficial, specifically open guilds like raven (yes thats an endorsement sue me). Good Luck and I hope you continue to play with us.

----------

LOL Dew and I posted basically the same message without meaning to, goes to show you it was good advice than.

M3G

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravenmagic View Post
Most guides I have been reading tell me to do EotN first, then NF>factions>Proph. But none of these guides mentioned more than a footnote about armor, they just said "go do teh quests!".
I'll still say this game is seriously not intuitive.
EotN is an expansion so it's like reading a second part of a book. You can't understand the basics mechanics of the game/story if u didn't play/read the intro...

If u skip much of the tutorial areas no wonder why you can't figure out how to play.

Gill Halendt

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

Walkthrough for campaigns don't mention upgrading your armor.

Tutorial about character development do tough:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guide to Character Creation for Starters on the Official Wiki

[...]

In short, a roleplaying character starts off at level 1 and is provided with only minimum basic armor and a starter weapon.

Keywords being "minimum" and "starter" here. Off course you should then be able to draw conclusions by yourself, and deduce that you should upgrade your "minimum" armor during the development of your character.

Even before than that, there are a couple of things named "game manual" and "common sense" that might be well worth using.

Just to say.

Wyndy

Wyndy

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2008

in the know

Chronic Chaos

N/Me

No one has mentioned this here, but the place for a new person to start this game is not EOTN, Factions or Nightfall. All new players and that includes people that find this game counter inuitive, need to start in Prophecies. That is the tutorial.

cosyfiep

cosyfiep

are we there yet?

Join Date: Dec 2005

in a land far far away

guild? I am supposed to have a guild?

Rt/

prophecies had the best (easiest) learning curve and pre-searing was a great learning area... after that nightfall has a pretty good learning curve (minus the stupid sunspear points)...and some of the easier quest progressions to follow. Eye has the WORST progressions especially for a new person!

Skyy High

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravenmagic View Post
Well somehow I did overlook the armor thing... I was focused on what to do in the fight, not before it.
Most guides I have been reading tell me to do EotN first, then NF>factions>Proph. But none of these guides mentioned more than a footnote about armor, they just said "go do teh quests!".
FWIW, there is max armor available in the first outpost in EotN, as well as in Kaineng Center, which you had to have gone to in order to get to EotN.

Quote:
I'll still say this game is seriously not intuitive.
Anyone else find it hilarious that traditional MMOs have brainwashed players into thinking that it's more "intuitive" for the heavy armored (but otherwise useless) tank character to be able to verbally abuse all non-sentient monsters into attacking him, than for said monsters to automatically try to attack the weakest members of your party first?

Quote:
I mean I will read the wiki, and have a bit, but I have not found the section (if there is one) that lays out the step by step progression to learning how to play this game. And again the game should seriously do this but so far it feels more like the game gives me some options as to what I do next but then doesn't explain them (like which armor set to get, there are apparently many? and the only difference is a name and the look but they are the same grade?"
"Hold my hand more, please"? C'mon mate, this wasn't rocket science; if you were dying constantly, your first thought should have been "Am I protected enough?". I can't see any logical way that you can blame the game for this.

Furthermore, you're trying to follow a guide, and you failed at it; you're not supposed to go to EotN first. More than likely, the guide you've been following has been a "How to get to 30/50 in your HoM ASAP" style guide that is meant for current players (or written by a current player who has lost touch with how new players learn the game). EotN's content is the hardest PvE content in the game. If you go there and you don't know what you're doing, you'll get your butt kicked (and if you think the minotaurs are hard, you're not going to make any progress in that campaign).

Go back to Kaineng, buy max armor, play through Factions (or Nightfall). Come back to EotN when you know more about the game so you don't get killed. Numbers aren't enough in this game; if you don't know what you're doing, how to build a good skillbar, and how to use it, you won't be able to succeed for very long.

PurpleFlamingo

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2010

Hopped Off The Plane At [LAX]

R/

Let's see your skillbar and your heroes' skillbars

Kendil

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2009

Sweden

Since the armor thingy is out of the way, the next step should be your teambuild.

Koss, Dunkoro, Olias, Ogden Stonehealer, Vekk, Gwen, and MOX and a rit.

Melee AI is pretty dumb, so you can't expect koss and mox to do anything right.
Your necro should have something like jagged bones, animate bone minions and death nova + additional skills. You should have Dwaynas sorrow on someone as well, preferably on one of your monks.
Mesmers are solid, get these two in your teambuild asap and stuff should be easier.
If you split the support on several heroes then you don't really need a generic healer, but since you don't have much else then take 1 monk as a generic healer and the other as a smiter with RoJ. http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Mo/Me_UA_Healer_Hero and http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Mo/any_PvE_Smiter
As for your ele, you could run a prot http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:E/Mo_ER_Prot_Hero and dump your Mo healer for another RoJ smiter, or you could run several searing flames E/Mo with Aegis + Prot spirit/spirit bond on them for aditional support. There's 2 more ele heroes pretty early in the NF campaign, so I suggest you go get them and ditch koss and mox.

I explained in a not so newbie friendly way, if you need something explained please ask

Cravenmagic

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2011

R/N

Right O then, back to Factions and then Nightfall.
And to clear up why I never upgraded armor much, and to make myself look less dumb on that point, after playing way too much WoW years ago I look at armor to see what +/- it will give me towards attributes. IE in GW attributes are not found on armor, so getting better armor does not allow me a bigger mana pool etc.

I am a caster, so why would armor matter to me? I just stand behind a group and snipe and cast spirits to help out right?
Well apparently not...

-- Holding a wand or staff as opposed to martial weapons such as a sword, bow, or scythe creates additional aggro. Only applies to allies within the foe's aggro range.
-- Having lower armor and/or health than team mates. Accordingly, having higher health/armor will have the opposite effect. Only applies to allies within the foe's aggro range.

Well crap, alright then.
Though I leved a character in each campaign from 1-12 (all of which are lvl 20 now) and the game never explained this to me... Again I am a point A to point B person, so now I go get armor, time to google cheapest max armor for me and my heros (yeah they are in the wiki, but ot doesn't explain the differences between them much cost wise)

But point taken, I'll take my (lvl 20) Rit and go back to Factions to learn skills and upgrade stuff. And the friend who convinced me to pick this game up has since stopped playing it... so yeah I'd be interested in a new guild since the one I am attached to is bone dry of players.

MisterB

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravenmagic View Post
Again I am a point A to point B person, so now I go get armor, time to google cheapest max armor for me and my heros (yeah they are in the wiki, but ot doesn't explain the differences between them much cost wise)

But point taken, I'll take my (lvl 20) Rit and go back to Factions to learn skills and upgrade stuff. And the friend who convinced me to pick this game up has since stopped playing it... so yeah I'd be interested in a new guild since the one I am attached to is bone dry of players.
Upgrading hero armor is unnecessary; hero armor upgrades only change the visual appearance and unlock reward points in the Hall of Monuments. The heroes automatically acquire armor rating when they level up.

Try looking through the guild recruitment section of Guru if you are interested in joining a new guild.

Kendil

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2009

Sweden

You don't need to upgrade your heroes armor, they upgrade it through level; you can just change their apperance.

The wiki do say pretty explit what each armor costs. Go here: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Rit_armor and then you pick one of the non-prestige armors Shing jea - luxon (the one you like best, or all of them for that matter). And you should come to a page like this (luxon as an example): http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ritualist_Luxon_armor It says exactly what the armor costs. 5k, 200 Bolt(s) of Cloth, 32 Vial(s) of Ink, 24 Jadeite Shard(s) You just have to look up the costs at a trader/the current player market in game. These armorsets usually cost ~15k total.

You can in fact upgrade your armor with various runes and insignias.

I'd say you should do the nf story first because it will give you access to more heroes Norgu, Master of Whispers and Razah are pretty important.

BrettM

BrettM

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2008

Fuzzy Physics Institute

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravenmagic View Post
Again I am a point A to point B person, so now I go get armor, time to google cheapest max armor for me and my heros (yeah they are in the wiki, but ot doesn't explain the differences between them much cost wise)
(On a side note: Feel free to ignore some of the harsher comments in this thread. IMHO, you don't deserve that sort of treatment just for being sent off on a wrong track by advice not meant for a player in your position.)

True, the information about the effects on aggro of holding a caster weapon vs. martial weapon and of armor/health relative to team-mates is not explained anywhere in game. For that matter, I don't believe there's any official ANet source outside the game, such as a manual, that explains this information. Players had to work this stuff out for themselves by long observation. OTOH, it isn't really essential to know for an average player working his way through his first campaign.

You won't have to worry about buying armor for your heroes. Hero armor levels with them, and will automatically have max rating for their profession when they reach level 20. The only thing you need to do to hero armor is to apply the desired runes and insignia.

For yourself, start with the Ritualist Armor on the wiki. Anything labeled "Elite" or "Prestige" is going to be very expensive, but has no statistical advantages over other max armor, so you can just cross these off your list for now. This leaves you a choice of seven sets. All seven sets cost the exact same amount in cash (5,000g for a full set), but differ in the required materials. Shing Jea, Canthan, Exotic, and Imperial require the cheapest materials and are available at max rating in the Kaineng City area. Max Canthan armor is also available in Boreal Station. That should make it easier for you to choose.

Porkchop Sandwhiches

Porkchop Sandwhiches

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fishing Village in Wizard's Folly

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravenmagic View Post
-- Holding a wand or staff as opposed to martial weapons such as a sword, bow, or scythe creates additional aggro. Only applies to allies within the foe's aggro range.
-- Having lower armor and/or health than team mates. Accordingly, having higher health/armor will have the opposite effect. Only applies to allies within the foe's aggro range.
Yeah this isn't something very obvious when you first start out. But, after you upgrade your armor and runes you will be much better off and you won't really have to worry as much about what type of weapon you are wielding.

Once you get back into Factions just follow the main quest line for that campaign (the one that shows up in your journal as "Primary") to progress with the story line, it will give you a sense of direction. When you get to the end of the story line you also get some goodies (a free max weapon and new armor sets become available).

Glad you are sticking with it!

Cravenmagic

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2011

R/N

Ah k, so I do not NEED to buy armor for heros, somewhere I read you were supposed to, must have been for the HoM stuff or something?

But good to know, and special thanks to BrettM and Kendil for the armor advise(I did see those pages but I somehow missed the table at the bottom comparing prices >.< )

OK I am set to go now, but I'll be back, just a little less whine next time, promise ^_-

Wenspire

Wenspire

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2008

USA - W.Coast

HiME

Mo/

Just be careful with your selection of runes you decide to use on your characters as Superior and Major attribute runes have a negative impact on your HP and do not stack in terms of effect. For PvE, I would say no more than 1 Superior or Major attribute rune per character. People's opinions vary in this matter, so that's just my $0.02.

Star_Jewel

Star_Jewel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2010

Denizen of Tyria since Feb. 2009

To clarify a little bit about armor: All the various types used to make a difference -- the different styles inherently offered different armor bonuses. But I guess for the sake of aesthetics, they dumped that and introduced the insignia system so you could put whatever bonus you like on your favorite armor style.
That's why there are so many.

You can mix and match pieces from different styles to create whatever unique look you want.

Kaida the Heartless

Kaida the Heartless

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

N/

The basic (unmodified) Armor only adjusts Armor value, which is a percentage reduction on damage you take (all damage). The only exception are pants and leg pieces, which add +1 energy regeneration (per piece), and you will never find this stat anywhere else except skills (which can do + or -) or weapons/offhands (which will only ever do -). Warriors and Paragons will not have the +1 energy regeneration on their pieces, and Rangers will only have the +1 on their pants.

On the armor, you can add a Rune and an Insignia. These add things like +attributes, +hp, +armor, and +energy. These (both) are bought at Rune Traders.

Weapons can also have these stats and they are gained from three different parts per weapon. Wands have two parts, as do shields and offhands. Staves have 3 parts as well, and they come with inherent modifiers that you cannot change. I'd advise you to look this information up on the wiki, as I cannot put all of it here.

Now, there are several factors that determine aggro in Guild Wars. They are:
- Distance to monster/obstacles in the way
- Total Armor
- Current Health
- Enchantments/Buffs/Etc.
- Debuffs
- Total Health
- Initial Aggro

In just about that order, greatest to least.

The tricky part is getting a feel for when you'll gain/lose Aggro because all of these values are constantly being calculated and acted upon at once. You might have lower armor and health than an ally, but the aggro might stay on them because they are closer. Other times, something might tick the monster off and you will get attacked. It's part of what makes you stay on your toes. Think of it more as a method of increasing or lowering your chances, not a set of calculated numbers you can watch to make sure you never get attacked.

With this said, run a "Minion Master (Necro Class)" in your party. They are great for taking aggro. Also, run a skill called "Protective Spirit (Monk)". It's great for making those punches hurt less on a squishy ally when they do get attacked.

If you have any further questions, you can PM me ingame. Name is the same. Good luck!

Zebideedee

Zebideedee

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

55?? 57' 0" N / 3?? 12' 0" W

N/Me

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this as a lot of posts and haven't read them all. Be sure to use individual flags for each of your heroes (well the top three at least). If you have them all flagged in the same place means any aoe damage will decimate your party.

shillo

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2006

Actually, there is a very intuitive way to understand the GW aggro system. It goes like this: The monsters are trying to kill you.

Monsters use the same AI as the henchmen and heroes (although their AI is deliberately weaker in normal mode, with fully tweaked AI in the hard mode). It will prioritize targets by value, scatter and kite on damage and use CC off-target when opportunity arises. The most easily exploitable weakness of this AI is that it will tend to give more priority to the summoned creatures than it should.

But in general, if you just treat monsters as you would treat PvP opponents, you will not be too wrong most of the time.

As for the gear, max AR armors and max damage weapons are trivial to get. However, runes, insignias and weapon mods do matter, and you need different ones with different builds; there is no rule for this, you will simply need to play the game enough to learn this stuff.

Finally, the game is not about filling up the Hall of Monuments, it's about completing the four storylines. In the course of doing that, the game does build an understanding for how it's supposed to be played. Even if you joined GW primarily to fill the Hall, you will -still- need to play through the game at least once in every continent, just to learn the game mechanics.

And yes, Zebideedee's advice is great - you need to learn flagging quickly. Bind the flag commands to keys, so you can disperse the heroes by tapping 4 keys and clicking on the ground in a quick succession.

KotCR

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2008

[DVDF]

P/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wenspire View Post
JFor PvE, I would say no more than 1 Superior or Major attribute rune per character. People's opinions vary in this matter, so that's just my $0.02.
Yeah. If one Superior Rune is okay, then two Major Runes should be okay also. As one Superior is -75HP, two Majors are a total of -70HP (-35 each). Majors are actually alot more useful than people give them credit for at reaching skill breakpoints at minimal loss to health (whereas when people use Superior, it's generally not to reach skill breakpoints as much as just a case of trying to max out on damage or defense or healing).

Personally, what Runes you should use depends on class aswell. For example, classes that are reliant on only two attributes for effective builds from their profession are probably better off with one Superior Rune and minors for the rest.

For superior rune usage, examples would be Elementalist, who tend to run Energy Storage and only a single Elemental line (the Superior would be on the Elemental line, minor on anything else you use) - or Warrior, who tend to use Strength and only a single Weapon line (in which case you'd use the Superior on your weapon line).
N.B. Though to be fair Warriors are a bit special here and generally have little use of a Superior Rune here aswell as their skills don't tend to revolve around breakpoints for any significant increase in effectiveness, so infact the only other Superior Rune you'd use other than Vigor for unconditional +50HP (which everyone should have) is Superior Absorption, which also provides a strong bonus (-3 damage reduction) with no drawbacks (unlike other Superior Runes, it doesn't lower health).

Major Rune usage is more beneficial for classes that are reliant on three or more attributes lines for effective builds from their profession (generally due to a very high reliance on their primary attribute to be effective), or classes that have many skill breakpoints they need to reach in multiple attribute lines.

Examples would be Paragon who will always be running a weapon line (typically Spear), significant scores in Leadership and then another significant score in whatever support line they choose (either Motivation, or Command or something from a secondary profession), or Ranger who will similiarly always be running a weapon line (typically Bow), a significant score in Expertise and then another significant score in a support line (either Wilderness Survival, Beast Mastery, or something from a secondary profession). In these cases you'd have a Major Rune on your primary attribute (Leadership/Expertise), a major rune on either your weapon or support line (depending on the focus of the build), and minor for the rest...with a Superior Vigor again of course.

Most of the other professions could come under either category though, depending on build at the time, as they aren't reliant on high scores in more than two attributes to be effective (usually just their Primary Attribute plus one other line, though in some cases you might ignore your primary for the most part and still spec to a significant amount in only two lines - such as Mesmers using say, Domination and Inspiration only), but typically tend to run scores in at least three attribute lines in thier builds anyway (in the Mesmer example again, Fast Casting + Domination or Illusion + Inspiration, is an example of a common attribute distribution, though a good score in Fast Casting isn't as crucial as one in Leadership or Expertise for effectiveness).

Though if in doubt, just stick to Minors (or Vitae) with Superior Vigor. Especially when it comes to Runeing heroes that you desparetly need to keep safe from the enemy (typically Monks and Ritualists - your healers).

That's my $2 on Runes. As was said, it comes down to personal preference .

Kendil

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2009

Sweden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravenmagic View Post
Ah k, so I do not NEED to buy armor for heros, somewhere I read you were supposed to, must have been for the HoM stuff or something?
Yes, that is needed for the monument of fellowship, but hero armor isn't used for anything else besides being cosmetic.

Azure Aesthetics

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Dec 2011

China

Dragon Soul

Rt/

Also very useful for me, a newbie of Ritualist. Especially the aggro system I really confused before

Ok Dont Panic

Ok Dont Panic

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2010

UK

We Gat Dis [HRUU]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cravenmagic View Post
Ah k, so I do not NEED to buy armor for heros, somewhere I read you were supposed to, must have been for the HoM stuff or something?

But good to know, and special thanks to BrettM and Kendil for the armor advise(I did see those pages but I somehow missed the table at the bottom comparing prices >.< )

OK I am set to go now, but I'll be back, just a little less whine next time, promise ^_-

This is basically going to be a sum up and my 2 cents from the whole area.

You are new to the game and have, unlike many others read up on the game and tried to give youself the best advantage that you possibly could into getting started and playing.

My advice and pro tip guide would be this:

(I haven't read every detail of every post [i'm lazy]) but I'm assuming you own all campaigns.....)

Ok, firstly complete Tyria, Factions and then Nightfall.
You have heros so this should NOT be that difficult, you are already using the GuildWars Wiki and that will help you when you get lost. PRO TIP, don't use it for everything right away. Try it yourself first and then use wiki when you get stuck. Learning for yourself is better.

THEN Step into Eye of the North. Eye of the North was created as a kinda "elite" expansion to the game. The game play was expected to be a lot HARDER and CHALLENGING!

You've been reading into your Hall of Monuments. This is good however without a proper grip on the game mechanics and basic understanding I advise you to STEER CLEAR from Hall of Monuments for now.

You do NOT have to buy armor for heros, HOWEVER you can equip them with runes and Insignea's to make them more durable during more difficult fights. THAT BEING SAID it is perfectly possible to complete all 3 campaigns and EoTN without Runing any heros and using mainly henchmen.

MAX ARMOR Is a MUST when you are in EoTN and MAINLAND Nightfall and Cantha, Tyria doesn't matter SO MUCH until LATER in the game.

www.gwpvx.com is VERY helpful for builds. Don't use these builds as your holy grail BUT they are a good starting point.

Don't try and think of general pve as TANK AND SPANK. It rarely is anymore and is only used really in speedclears.

Guild Wars has a unique SHUT DOWN profession Mesmer that will protect you from a lot of damage either psyical or caster wise with the RIGHT builds!