I think it's quite obvious to say that snowball tournaments made PvP active for a few weeks, but now it's going to be back to inactivity for very long time...
I think we should have snowball tournaments longer or permanent for many obvious reasons :
- everyone can participate easily(no tokens required) and it's fun, less skill required than in GvG
- the reward is good and these are not very long At's
- it would be an other way of earning reward points aside of GvG, which are usually too long and not populated( we can honestly say that if there are many inexperienced guilds registered, good ones will do register on purpose to farm them....)
- something is needed in PvP at the moment, there's really nothing to do apart of watching people syncing..
A Few questions are going to be asked probably :
- There are too many henchways... : well, yes but they're still giving easy wins if you face them and anyway, there are as well too many forfeiters in GvG At's wasting time..
- There are too many botters.... : people do bot and sync in the Whole PvP anyway, it wouldn't do a lot i think
- The reward is too high: that's the only problem maybe, it would have to be lowered down a bit to a maximum of 200 instead of 350( GvG At's are rewarding less than 100 rps usually....)
- People play those because it only lasts 2 weeks : wrong, due to fun format, good reward( even if lowered) , and inactivity in whole PvP and easy access, it would surely be full at any time
- It's wintersday spirit... : sure, but something easy to do is needed to fix inactivity in PvP...
I think it would be an alternative way to have something to do in PvP( 3 times a day) and it wouldn't cost them a lot since the code is already there, plus many would be happy..
Waiting comments
Permanent Snowball Tournament
Missing HB
Olle
Sure its fun now, but people will leave it for normal gvg after a while, and it will be emptied out within a few months.
/signed anyway, for teh lulz
/signed anyway, for teh lulz
Fluffy Kittens
make rewards bit lower and keep it at least until dies it just like gvg tourneys did
/signed x10000
/signed x10000
Spiritz
As soon as ppl grow bored of it then it would die - PvP itself is different as builds can be changed but having same builds ( or almost same ) all the time will get boring .. no wait that sounds like codex and you can see how well thats doing.
Snow tourney over xmas may have brought ppl in but you can see why - its only on a set time of the year which gets ppl in.24/7 all year would mean an even bigger hole in PvP - also dont forget a big chunk of players doing it are usually students who come on for the hols then vanish.
Snow tourney over xmas may have brought ppl in but you can see why - its only on a set time of the year which gets ppl in.24/7 all year would mean an even bigger hole in PvP - also dont forget a big chunk of players doing it are usually students who come on for the hols then vanish.
hitsuji182
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Spiritz
As soon as ppl grow bored of it then it would die - PvP itself is different as builds can be changed but having same builds ( or almost same ) all the time will get boring .. no wait that sounds like codex and you can see how well thats doing.
Snow tourney over xmas may have brought ppl in but you can see why - its only on a set time of the year which gets ppl in.24/7 all year would mean an even bigger hole in PvP - also dont forget a big chunk of players doing it are usually students who come on for the hols then vanish. |
Let's compare snowballs with other PvP formats:
GvG is still to hardcore for average guild, also population is on decline
HA died months ago, barrier in form of hero rank
Codex - lol
RA - jump in, play one round and leave
At the moment my guild is bereaved. We had so much fun playing together this Wintersday, just like 2 and 3 years ago (and when we've been playing HA) and now we are very very sad to realize we have to go inacvitve for months, cuz GW isn't offering anything similar to snowballs experience.
I know lots of polish guilds which reactivated for this event, just like us, and now share same fate.
So...
Please ANet, give us snowballs, you don't lose anything!!
All you have to do is to lower rewards and that's all!
Leman
I approve this initiative.
/signed
Edit: New FLUX GG.
/signed
Edit: New FLUX GG.
papryk
Quote:
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Originally Posted by hitsuji182
I'm 100% sure Snowball Tournaments wouldn't die if they were permanent. It's by far the most fun, active and accessible PvP format in Guild Wars. It's very easy to learn, everyone uses same builds, objective is always the same - this is why there are lots of guilds participating.
Let's compare snowballs with other PvP formats: GvG is still to hardcore for average guild, also population is on decline HA died months ago, barrier in form of hero rank Codex - lol RA - jump in, play one round and leave At the moment my guild is bereaved. We had so much fun playing together this Wintersday, just like 2 and 3 years ago (and when we've been playing HA) and now we are very very sad to realize we have to go inacvitve for months, cuz GW isn't offering anything similar to snowballs experience. I know lots of polish guilds which reactivated for this event, just like us, and now share same fate. So... Please ANet, give us snowballs, you don't lose anything!! All you have to do is to lower rewards and that's all! |
give snowballz back plox
big man
With rewards slightly lowered /signed
Olle
With the current Flux, i have no clue how a match would look like.
Leman
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Olle
With the current Flux, i have no clue how a match would look like.
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jcegt87
sure lets bring it permanently, while their at it lets bring Wintersday and canthan new year all year round, since it brings people back >.>
/notsigned
/notsigned
lemming
There was a time when GvG daily ATs were several times more popular than they are these days.
I'm not talking about some storied time when "the game was alive," I'm talking about when the rewards for AT completion were so high that you had dozens of afk guilds piling into every single one.
Would snowball ATs really be as popular if all the competent guilds were in one group? Would people really still want to play it casually if they would be going 2-4 instead of 4-2?
I'm not talking about some storied time when "the game was alive," I'm talking about when the rewards for AT completion were so high that you had dozens of afk guilds piling into every single one.
Would snowball ATs really be as popular if all the competent guilds were in one group? Would people really still want to play it casually if they would be going 2-4 instead of 4-2?
Fluffy Kittens
Making rewards 1/2 would be fine, they would still be kinda high. My suggestion would be just to keep it until it dies like gvg tourneys died. Almost each snowball tourney had 2 or 3 groups, I think it clearly shows that people really did enjoy it. It really wouldn't be a problem at all to just remove it if it becomes abused or dead or whatever but this just makes no sense, to remove it when it's so popular... sigh
LanaDarkess
I do believe that this has been suggested numerous times already.
Why have it all year round? Players would eventually get bored with it and move on anyway. Having it one time a year makes it special, something to look forward to.
/notsigned
Why have it all year round? Players would eventually get bored with it and move on anyway. Having it one time a year makes it special, something to look forward to.
/notsigned
CE Devilman
sure why not ..a stack of keys will not hurt anyone.....right
headlesshobbs
I wouldn't mind if they made some form of snowball pvp to help cover the winter season lasting thru Jan-Mar. In fact they should at least keep the snow after events are over.
Leman
Quote:
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Originally Posted by LanaDarkess
I do believe that this has been suggested numerous times already.
Why have it all year round? Players would eventually get bored with it and move on anyway. Having it one time a year makes it special, something to look forward to. /notsigned |
Is it really good to just delete Snowballs and make all these tourny players go play other games for the next 12 months until the next Wintersday which is basically equal to never? Wouldn't it be better to hold it and let them have some fun before this game totally dies?
i farm baddies
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rezz Anna Nicole
Making rewards 1/2 would be fine, they would still be kinda high. My suggestion would be just to keep it until it dies like gvg tourneys died. Almost each snowball tourney had 2 or 3 groups, I think it clearly shows that people really did enjoy it. It really wouldn't be a problem at all to just remove it if it becomes abused or dead or whatever but this just makes no sense, to remove it when it's so popular... sigh
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hitsuji182
Quote:
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Originally Posted by i farm baddies
it basically showed the guild wars population realizes you can make a lot of zkeys for minimal work. atleast half the guilds in those AT's were afk guilds lol. mine included, and why not? i made a stack of zkeys every tournament...
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Odin Bloodknight
Give us the snowballs!
(Also Dragon Arena ATs >.>)
(Also Dragon Arena ATs >.>)
Redd Rathe
I think it's a great idea. I love it for the short time that it's around and I'm sure people would play it regardless if it's Wintersday or not.
/signed fo sho
/signed fo sho
Cerulean Niteshadow
Would die off in weeks, been suggested before.
/notsigned
/notsigned
Essence Snow
So we can have endless complaint threads about afk/farming/bots/macros?....no ty
/not signed
/not signed
cosyfiep
something more often than just once a year would be nice...like maybe 4 or 5 times a year for a week??? (and add the reg snowball fights in to--would be nice to have a few more ways to get gamer points).
Missing HB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
So we can have endless complaint threads about afk/farming/bots/macros?....no ty
/not signed |
Besides, why wouldn't we get a format that would make PvP active a little if there's really nothing to do there( note : nothing to do because there is noone).. The point is pretty much to keep players on gw1 for more time, have something to do casually and not just log, see every place is empty and go back to skyrim or revelations...
Iceblue
Quote:
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Originally Posted by headlesshobbs
I wouldn't mind if they made some form of snowball pvp to help cover the winter season lasting thru Jan-Mar. In fact they should at least keep the snow after events are over.
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I think the whole event should be a month long. How many people had time to play before christmas? Its a crazy busy time for everyone (also for those of us who celebrate Hannuka, which came out around the same time this year). The event should at least last until Jan. 15th.
/half signed
floor
Although the very top snowball players might have you think otherwise, the majority of the guilds in top 8 (not necessarily the winners) come from a GvG/HA background. Most of these players stop participating in these tournaments dailly as soon as the christmas period is finished and their guild becomes active again.
Whilst snowball is fun, and its a welcome change from GvG for a short period, it would not be more popular if it was all year around.
Please do not assume that more guilds entering over the christmas period when there is nothing else to do as being more popular. You would likely not have more than 1 group if snowball AT's happened all year around. Factor in that a large % of those teams will be afk, and you basically have an even worse version of the GvG AT's.
/not signed, its good for the period that it exists. Would be boring/dead if it was all year around, especially if RP's were reduced.
Whilst snowball is fun, and its a welcome change from GvG for a short period, it would not be more popular if it was all year around.
Please do not assume that more guilds entering over the christmas period when there is nothing else to do as being more popular. You would likely not have more than 1 group if snowball AT's happened all year around. Factor in that a large % of those teams will be afk, and you basically have an even worse version of the GvG AT's.
/not signed, its good for the period that it exists. Would be boring/dead if it was all year around, especially if RP's were reduced.
Rushin Roulette
Should the permanent Snowball Tournament go together with permanent Costume brawl, permanent Dragon Arena and the permanent rollerbeatle racing which have all been suggested multiple times already? or is there a reason why this one format should be avalable all year round as opposed to all the others?
Before you suggest making all these permanent... you will not find enough players to compete against you as they would be even more spread around (just see how dead AB and codix are allready because players are in different formats).
Before you suggest making all these permanent... you will not find enough players to compete against you as they would be even more spread around (just see how dead AB and codix are allready because players are in different formats).
Missing HB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by floor
Please do not assume that more guilds entering over the christmas period when there is nothing else to do as being more popular. You would likely not have more than 1 group if snowball AT's happened all year around. Factor in that a large % of those teams will be afk, and you basically have an even worse version of the GvG AT's.
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I still can't understand other ideas about boredom and other... We have had all these formats and GvG At's for years now without any change,and we see the result, noone can do anything in PvP...How can adding something that will be anyway more active than any actual organized format be bad?
_Deals_
/not signed, threads that have been repeated shouldn't go this far without being closed for real.
floor
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Missing HB
Even if there was half a group, it would still be 3 times better than the most active GvG At's today...
I still can't understand other ideas about boredom and other... We have had all these formats and GvG At's for years now without any change,and we see the result, noone can do anything in PvP...How can adding something that will be anyway more active than any actual organized format be bad? |
If reward points where substantially reduced (half those of a GvG AT seems fair since snowballs take half the time) or removed entirely, the number of guilds entering would probably be 1/10th of what it is now, including the removal of all the afk RP farming guilds ofc. There is no escaping the fact that the majority of the guilds who come out of PvE to participate, which is why so many teams enter!, are only doing so because of rewards. For some reason even at this stage of the game, the prospect of more money/gear excites people greatly.
If snowball arenas became a permanent fixture, it would just be the half a dozen serious "skillz" guilds fighting each other, with a handful of other pug teams entering for the "fun" of it.
most people are playing for rewards, not fun.
Starfleck
I believe Lemming had by far the most appropriate comment here. Playing pvp on a regular basis is all about getting that 4 wins / 2 losses.
2 wins / 4 losses is just a bit of a slap in the face to an experienced pvp-er. I do agree that getting a stack of zkeys from one tournament is rediculous for someone who's not good at pvp, but care to consider for a moment what being in the lower half of the standings gets you. . .
Let's say you have an army of alt accounts, afk 3 guilds, and play one real guild. 3 guilds get what, 6 zkeys per player? less? Doesn't matter, because they all go to the same player (or group of players), so it's still worth it to do that rather than skip it and don't enter the tournament.
For 3 noob guilds to fight against one really good guild, however, it's the same win-loss ratio, the same low reward (compared to what the good guild is earning), and a whole lot of humiliation. The low end of the tournament is getting terrible rewards, which is the whole reason regular AT's died. It's more productive for a mid-range pvp player to go learn a speedclear, and more productive for a high end pvp player to have an army of alt accounts in smurf guilds, which, by all accounts, Anet should NOT be encouraging.
Ask a high end pvp player what they'd like and I'll bet you anything the answer is this: more competition. What generates more competition, though?? Rewards, because for the low-end PvPer the rewards are what's more important. Therefore, I agree that the top finishing guilds in a tournament that big should not be getting 350+ tourny reward points per player, but lower finishing real non-afk guilds should definitely be getting close to 50 every tourny they play. Just the fact that they were able to mobilize at least 6 players that are probably stronger in PvE represents quite a bit of effort on the guild leader/officer's part, and the courage of those players.
Therefore: /not signed.
I disagree that we need Snowball AT's, I agree we need better low-end pvp.
2 wins / 4 losses is just a bit of a slap in the face to an experienced pvp-er. I do agree that getting a stack of zkeys from one tournament is rediculous for someone who's not good at pvp, but care to consider for a moment what being in the lower half of the standings gets you. . .
Let's say you have an army of alt accounts, afk 3 guilds, and play one real guild. 3 guilds get what, 6 zkeys per player? less? Doesn't matter, because they all go to the same player (or group of players), so it's still worth it to do that rather than skip it and don't enter the tournament.
For 3 noob guilds to fight against one really good guild, however, it's the same win-loss ratio, the same low reward (compared to what the good guild is earning), and a whole lot of humiliation. The low end of the tournament is getting terrible rewards, which is the whole reason regular AT's died. It's more productive for a mid-range pvp player to go learn a speedclear, and more productive for a high end pvp player to have an army of alt accounts in smurf guilds, which, by all accounts, Anet should NOT be encouraging.
Ask a high end pvp player what they'd like and I'll bet you anything the answer is this: more competition. What generates more competition, though?? Rewards, because for the low-end PvPer the rewards are what's more important. Therefore, I agree that the top finishing guilds in a tournament that big should not be getting 350+ tourny reward points per player, but lower finishing real non-afk guilds should definitely be getting close to 50 every tourny they play. Just the fact that they were able to mobilize at least 6 players that are probably stronger in PvE represents quite a bit of effort on the guild leader/officer's part, and the courage of those players.
Therefore: /not signed.
I disagree that we need Snowball AT's, I agree we need better low-end pvp.
Horace Slughorn
Quote:
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Originally Posted by hitsuji182
because players achieved everything they wanted long time ago
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jazilla
As long as it's just for fun then sure. If you don't want Tourney's without the rewards then no.
hitsuji182
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Horace Slughorn
you're saying this as if people don't sell their zkeys for real money...
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But still, lower rewards if thats an issue and done.
Horace Slughorn
Quote:
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Originally Posted by hitsuji182
rmt isn't very profitable anymore. I checked prices on black market and they are laughably low.
But still, lower rewards if thats an issue and done. |
Odin Bloodknight
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Rushin Roulette
Should the permanent Snowball Tournament go together with permanent Costume brawl, permanent Dragon Arena and the permanent rollerbeatle racing which have all been suggested multiple times already? or is there a reason why this one format should be avalable all year round as opposed to all the others?
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Missing HB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by floor
most people are playing for rewards, not fun.
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If we consider this, then adding snowball At's would be an option to do something( even if it is, as many believe, on a short run), and people would get bored and go GvG/HA, then at least it would create activity there...
side note: if people did really play for the reward, then how come there aren't any afkers in GvG At's but only a few forfeits....Leaving afk accounts( consider as many as in Sb At's) would still net you around 20-30 reward points, which is still a good reward for not doing anything...
floor
The formats will remain inactive at a competitive level regardless of what happens. Bringing PvE players into PvP really doesnt solve anything unless they want to invest a couple thousand hours learning how to win vs already competent teams. To PvP and win you really need a high level of motivation and dedication to what ur doing, and most people simply dont have this. Its no different to playing a sport irl, if you dont train you wont win. Snowball arenas are an exception to this rule and as a result are popular for two combined reasons, they are very easy to learn how to play (low skill ceiling), and the rewards are very high. Change either of these factors and the arena dies.
Considering you cannot have such a high level of rewards if the tournament was all year round cos it would ruin the economy, you have to reduce them. As i said, reduce the rewards = lose the players. So its just 1 more dead arena, except this one would serve no purpose at all. No fame/glads/guildrank/capetrims, nothing. People just wont do it for fun alone, because quite honestly after you've done snowballs for a week or so, its really not all that fun anyway...
Considering you cannot have such a high level of rewards if the tournament was all year round cos it would ruin the economy, you have to reduce them. As i said, reduce the rewards = lose the players. So its just 1 more dead arena, except this one would serve no purpose at all. No fame/glads/guildrank/capetrims, nothing. People just wont do it for fun alone, because quite honestly after you've done snowballs for a week or so, its really not all that fun anyway...
coil
neutral
imo a better solution would be add dodgeball AT, add snowball AT to wintersday in july, add CB AT to halloween, possibly add 1 more simple "festival" type event to keep the migratory players flocking back every couple months.
although i wouldnt mind 48-72 keys for ~2hrs a night.
imo a better solution would be add dodgeball AT, add snowball AT to wintersday in july, add CB AT to halloween, possibly add 1 more simple "festival" type event to keep the migratory players flocking back every couple months.
although i wouldnt mind 48-72 keys for ~2hrs a night.