FoWsc Eleway spikes

Alex/Stuiver

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2010

The Resurrected Lions [TRL]

R/

Hey,

My guild has been busy with making new builds with the recently updated elementalist skills. We have tested a variety of builds and we now have 3 mainteam spikers with each a essential function in the spiking.

The build are as following:


The spikes need to be casted in a certain sorder to work.

The Unsteady Ground elementalist is the "Caller" At each ball he will call Unsteady Grounds, after this the Shockwave spiker and Starburst spiker EE onto the maintank and cast their spiking skills. The Shockwave spiker has to use his spike skills in a certain order to work, Tenai's Wave -> Aftershock -> Crystal wave -> Shockwave. The reason for this order are the conditions Shockwave creates, when tenai's crystal or crystal wave are casted after shockwave the conditions are removed.

The spikes of the starburst spiker should be in the in the order of skill 3 -> 4 -> 5.

The rangers will kill you if you just random spike them. When done at the 360 the MT just balls up at two of the rangers, the spikers spike these grounds and immidiatly run into the safespot right infront of them, after this the MT will jump to the next group of rangers, call Unseen Fury and the spikers will spike them. This untill all the rangers are dead.

The rest of the tactics are the same of the other speedclear orders.

The terra roles are also the same as in the normal UW runs

The builds are probably not the best and the quickest to do FoW with. But it's nice to try something new and I think that with some tweaks you can get around the same times as a mesmerway fow spike.

The best time we got so far is a 8 Minute forge and a 18 min run in total.

We are open for criticism so feel free to leave a comment

Dutchiez

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2011

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A/N

Any feedback would be most appreciated ^^

EDIT: If the MT is pro he can do a 360 and xbox-pull, which will create 1 group of all 360-groups + 4 rangers and 1 group of 4 rangers, after the first group is spiked you can easily spike the remaining 4 rangers and save a lot of time. Killing the caster groups can be done most easily by having the SB spiker jump in and have the SW spiker EE on him.

Essence Snow

Essence Snow

Unbridled Enthusiasm!

Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

I have also been testing varients of fow ele spike. 1st started with 2 shockwave>tenias with a fragility caller (a/me mt). It worked but spikes had to be done in an order....ie...one ele jumps in calls shockwave..other jumps in ping tenias 1st then shockwave...then the 1st ele in casts tenia. We found it kind of a pain.

That aside...looking at your bars a couple things come to mind. On the UG caller i don't see the need for ee since the whole bar can be cast at range. On the mt...unless your having the need to cover for terras you could run a/any and add in some utility dmg (b/c t3 will be taking care of forest wolf) On the SW spiker maybe stoneflesh>aoe so you don't have to use pcon ims?

Alex/Stuiver

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2010

The Resurrected Lions [TRL]

R/

The thing about the UG Caller is true, we tested some builds earlier witha the UG caller with Aftershock so with that build he could jump in and help spiking.

The MT build was also a standard build we just used just to make the builds quickly, going A/P would probably be better. Sometimes having sliver with you helps with bad balls for the nearby targets, but as shockwave does in the area damage its pretty useless.

@ the SW Do you mean using the pcons so you walk faster? because EE has a recharge time of 8 seconde with cons, you can easily spam that while under effect of AoE.

Essence Snow

Essence Snow

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Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

I was referring to Quote:
Enchantment Spell. For 30 seconds, you gain 24...53...60 armor, but move 50...21...14% slower the bolded part. As it lasts well after spikes the negative ims will slow that spiker running to and fro.

Dutchiez

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2011

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EE is for healing if anything fails/speed up/escape from accidental aggro.
BTW, Glyph on the UG bar is optional skill we haven't figured anything better yet.

And MT you are totally right you could run a/any but these are just cover bars, in fact all of the terra bars are just random bars thrown in which you can replace with anything.

Alex/Stuiver

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2010

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R/

Thats true, also the fact that you dont have to recast it and you would take less damage is great.

Dutchiez

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2011

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A/N

And about Stoneflesh over AoE, stoneflesh has longer casting time and less duration, and AoE has with 17 earth magic (12+1+3 + 1 from cons) only a 9% movement slow which isnt all that much, and easily countered by popping a cupcake.

AndrewSX

AndrewSX

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2010

Italy, Turin

Lake

E/

Why overcomplicating you spikes that way? Isn't easier to load the T3 Mes way builds (Tanks and Rit) and replace 3 Mes with 3 Eles SF? Ranged, Aoe, strong dmg with 3 spikers.

(Disclaimer: i said EASIER, not necessarily BETTER for times/spikes)

Dutchiez

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2011

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A/N

Yes that would be easier, but would it be as fun?

AndrewSX

AndrewSX

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2010

Italy, Turin

Lake

E/

Probably not, sure .

But you said too that the PBAoE spike you have is a bit...clunky. Working, but is just overcomplicating things... just pointing that.

Obviously we could take another discussion about how are exactely should be a triple SFlames spike builds, but that's another story.

Alex/Stuiver

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2010

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It's probably true that SF probably does more damage. We just used the skill update to see if the new skills are capable of being used in speedclearing. We just wanted some feedback on the builds we are currently using and skills we might be able to change. For the overcomplicating, it's fun to make stuff a bit more tactical then just random spikes don't you think ?

Thanks for your imput anyway

AndrewSX

AndrewSX

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2010

Italy, Turin

Lake

E/

Then trowing in Fragility on MT bar for the sliver and giving a couple more of conds to spikers could be a good idea.

Alex/Stuiver

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2010

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Yup, we tried fragility on the spiker, not a lot damage. The extra damage is nice though, as the MT has optional spots anyway

Dutchiez

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2011

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A/N

What condition skills would you recommend we use?

AndrewSX

AndrewSX

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2010

Italy, Turin

Lake

E/

Mmh.

Cracked Armor, Weakness, Blind -> Shockwave - Check.

Burning -> Star Burst - Check

Unless exist a way to inflict Cripple/Daze/DWound in Aoe range w/o using FDreams... E/Me going /Nec for Disease/Poison? Dunno.

Coast

Coast

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Belgium

Whats Going On [sup]

Mo/

anyone tried triple rodgorts+ mindburn yet?

Dutchiez

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2011

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A/N

Just tested some things; turns out Fragility on the MT = ownage, so MT will be running Honor + Frag, and as for the UG Caller: Glyph of Lesser Energy is really nice for keeping Energy up and replacing Eruption with Earthern Shackles helps snare the mobs if the spike isn't clean.

EDIT: Going to bed now, will be looking into more condition skills tomorrow see what we can get out of that Fragility ^^

AndrewSX

AndrewSX

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2010

Italy, Turin

Lake

E/

About the "Squishy Eles jumping in balls for spiking", couldn't be useful replace Earthbind for Winter and have all Eles wearing Hydromancer Insignas? +20 free AR vs cold, maybe not like AoE, but making Eles less oneshotted (they shouldn't get hit, but that's another story). Possible to add a off-hand/shield for extra protection instead of the 40/40 set too.

Maurice

Maurice

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2010

The Netherlands

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Mo/

Well, winter could come out handy, but Earthbind is just too good to take away. As the knockdown now durates 3 seconds, its the time of the entire spike.

So if UG is casted on a good target in the ball, they are all KD'd during the spike, which gives you no damage at all.

AndrewSX

AndrewSX

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2010

Italy, Turin

Lake

E/

No dmg at all - > Then why bother with AoE or Stoneflesh?





(jk)

Dutchiez

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2011

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A/N

Plus AoE gives 65 AR already, count the +24 AR from I Am Unstoppable, the 60 Base AR and you got 149 AR, adding 20 to that would be overkill imo. (Although I'm not sure about armor caps so I could be completely wrong here).

Maurice

Maurice

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Join Date: May 2010

The Netherlands

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Mo/

You got me there.
And i think you know why we use those skills. IF everything is done correct there is no need for them aswel. But there are always some moments when it just doesn't go correct. And for winter, it is a Wilderness Survival skill. Would you like to have an sos without a single attribute high, or you want to split them all?

EDIT: Dutchiez ninja'd me.

AndrewSX

AndrewSX

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2010

Italy, Turin

Lake

E/

Duh. WSurvival on Winter is something i forgot completely.

Dutchiez

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2011

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A/N

I now am thinking about Physical Resistance, seeing as that's in the same attribute as Channeling and gives a nice +40 armor bonus and lasts really long, although it does decrease your armor vs elemental dmg.

Maurice

Maurice

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Join Date: May 2010

The Netherlands

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Mo/

We are thinking about intensity on some of the ele's. Still have to check out which ones.

Gondrakif

Gondrakif

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2009

GMT +2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice View Post
Well, winter could come out handy, but Earthbind is just too good to take away. As the knockdown now durates 3 seconds, its the time of the entire spike.
If that's true 3 ADoT skills on the caller sound useless, by the time he's done casting the third the spike should be over.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex/Stuiver View Post
The Shockwave spiker has to use his spike skills in a certain order to work, Tenai's Wave -> Aftershock -> Crystal wave -> Shockwave. Well with that order you completely miss cracked armor on the spike, which is pretty important considering this is almost all elemental spike. The fire spiker should be done spiking by the time shockwave is casted and the caller should be done with most of his damage.

And if you add fragility to the mt it would be even better to have shockwave cast first so there is extra damage from crystal wave.

Maurice

Maurice

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2010

The Netherlands

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Mo/

First of all, the damage done by Tenai's and Crystal Wave are armor ignoring.
Nevertheless, the order for the SW spiker should be lik this : SW, Aftershock, Teinai/crystal, teinai/crystal.

We are also changing the caller build. We are still having our doubts about churning, but eruption has already been replaced for earthen shackles.

And the earth spiker may be just one second slower than the fire one, as most of the time, two cyrstal skills are overkill.

Gondrakif

Gondrakif

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2009

GMT +2

Sorry wasn't clear enough, what i meant was that crystal/tenai's will remove conditions if cast after shockwave so fragility will be triggered again and you get more damage. Also GoEP gives a nice +10-20 damage per skill to each spiker which isn't that bad. Tbh i would favor df @ 0 water over Earthen Shackles if the caller has enough energy for it the reason being when crystal/tenai's is cast burning is gone and the mob isn't slowed anymore.

Alex/Stuiver

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2010

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R/

The builds got adjusted a little bit, finding that eruption was a bit energy kill

Essence Snow

Essence Snow

Unbridled Enthusiasm!

Join Date: Nov 2009

EST

DPR

Any thoughts?




Also was thinking about the EoE...instead of vampirism maybe technobable for 40 dmg from skill + 17 dmg from daze condition. It might help with cleanup on casters as spikers can wand to rupt.

Alex/Stuiver

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2010

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R/

We made solo ToC possible with fragility, so if the EoE would take Technobably solo toc would probably suck a bit.
Gonna try those builds as soon as we can, looking forward to it

Dutchiez

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2011

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gondrakif View Post
Sorry wasn't clear enough, what i meant was that crystal/tenai's will remove conditions if cast after shockwave so fragility will be triggered again and you get more damage. Also GoEP gives a nice +10-20 damage per skill to each spiker which isn't that bad. Tbh i would favor df @ 0 water over Earthen Shackles if the caller has enough energy for it the reason being when crystal/tenai's is cast burning is gone and the mob isn't slowed anymore.
I agree tbh, DF would be a much better snare although I'm not sure if the energy can take it. But we've already taken out Eruption which costs 25 energy (same as Deep Freeze) so I guess it could work. We will test it out later

Also I'm not sure about Solo ToC with that bar especially looking at the more health update and the split attributes for Earthbind, I will test it myself see if it is possible with that build without pcons and possibly make adjustments.

The order for SW spiker was made up before we put Fragility in there, seeing as how both Crystals are armor-ignoring and remove the conditions put on by SW which would make cleanup a bit harder. Now that we use Fragility though it makes much more sense to just SW->Aftershock->Crystals.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchiez View Post
Also I'm not sure about Solo ToC with that bar especially looking at the more health update and the split attributes for Earthbind, I will test it myself see if it is possible with that build without pcons and possibly make adjustments. Solo ToC is near impossible with that build, Abyssals are just too tough to get down. I've messed around a bit with the builds and made it easier for the rit to Solo ToC, also making it possible for all the 3 spikers to move along and spike Battlefield instead of 1 spiker staying behind helping the rit.

Vampire of Bone

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2011

Desolation Lords [DL]

N/

You don't necessarily need a rit to solo toc, all the sos is really doing is providing Earthbind and Edge of Extinction. EoE could be moved to a spiker instead of fomf (if you are just running this in guild then using res scrolls shouldn't be a problem).

This would let you take anything you liked instead of the rit to do toc as long as they were /rt. Only thing you might lose is a bit of clean up though your builds look as if they wouldn't/shouldnt have a problem with cleaning anything leftover.

Ulfur Dreksbane

Ulfur Dreksbane

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2010

At home where I can play Guild Wars

[Myth]

W/

My idea for a eleway fowsc has the following builds:

E1 + E2


E3



MT is standard, but with wisdom
T1 Regular
T2 Regular
EoE with Earthbind (Probably solo ToC just cause)


It's pretty straight forward. SB spikers cast precast mimicry on eachother ---> Channeling --> IAU ---> Intensity ---> EE ---> Spam spike skills on nearby targets (exact target doesnt matter)

The SW spiker precasts, hops in, casts Tenai's first for damage, then SW for main spike+conditions, whirlwind for 3 second KD and then aftershock.

EoE maintains Earthbind in range.

Dutchiez

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2011

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A/N



Newest builds, spikes are awesome, Solo ToC=np without any pcons (maybe mysterious summon stone or something along those lines for the ppl who aren't that good at it).

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulfur Dreksbane View Post
My idea for a eleway fowsc has the following builds:

E1 + E2
http://i.imgur.com/ci6NK.png

E3
http://i.imgur.com/Vlm1w.png


MT is standard, but with wisdom
T1 Regular
T2 Regular
EoE with Earthbind (Probably solo ToC just cause)


It's pretty straight forward. SB spikers cast precast mimicry on eachother ---> Channeling --> IAU ---> Intensity ---> EE ---> Spam spike skills on nearby targets (exact target doesnt matter)

The SW spiker precasts, hops in, casts Tenai's first for damage, then SW for main spike+conditions, whirlwind for 3 second KD and then aftershock.

EoE maintains Earthbind in range. Builds look good, I'm just not a fan of Arcane Mimicry (except for copying something you can keep for a long time and don't need very often e.g. UA), because of it's long cast time, short duration, long recharge time and high energy cost. You do get a double elite though which always helps.

I do like Whirlwind, I thought about using it myself initially too but you will have to divide your attributes between Earth Magic, Air Magic, Inspiration Magic and Energy Storage (you are gonna like that Energy in Forge with Shatter Enchantment).

EDIT: Btw you said you were using 3 spikers + MT,T1,T2 and EoE which leaves you at 7 players, I hope you were planning on using a T3? Because Forest is a bitch with these builds especially Worms.

Ulfur Dreksbane

Ulfur Dreksbane

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2010

At home where I can play Guild Wars

[Myth]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchiez
View Post



Builds look good, I'm just not a fan of Arcane Mimicry (except for copying something you can keep for a long time and don't need very often e.g. UA), because of it's long cast time, short duration, long recharge time and high energy cost. You do get a double elite though which always helps.

I do like Whirlwind, I thought about using it myself initially too but you will have to divide your attributes between Earth Magic, Air Magic, Inspiration Magic and Energy Storage (you are gonna like that Energy in Forge with Shatter Enchantment).

EDIT: Btw you said you were using 3 spikers + MT,T1,T2 and EoE which leaves you at 7 players, I hope you were planning on using a T3? Because Forest is a bitch with these builds especially Worms. I just tested it. It went quite well. Arcane Mimicry is fine for this since you only need the duration to last a few seconds for the spike. When doing 360 it's not fantastic because it only lasts 1 or 2 groups, but 3x spikers still takes care of it.

The whirlwind is fine since I mainly use it to initiate the 3 second knockdown and activating the extra damage from aftershock. I haven't had any energy problems so far (and I was playing the less energy efficient shockwave build).

Oh yeah I forgot the 1 member. It can either be T3 or UA. We ran with a UA, but a T3 would work just as well. And yeah, wurms were a bit of a pain, but nothing horrifying.

WarcryOfTruth

WarcryOfTruth

Site Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2009

Atlanta

[LIFE]

P/

Not to sound dumb, but if I recall, doesn't Intensity require a targeted spell in order to do its damage? Looking at those Shockwave bars above, all of those damage spells are PBAoE. I could be wrong about how Intensity works, but I always thought it needed a target.

Maurice

Maurice

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2010

The Netherlands

The Resurrected Lions [TRL]

Mo/

sorry pal, you are wrong. Tested it, and works like a charm.

WarcryOfTruth

WarcryOfTruth

Site Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2009

Atlanta

[LIFE]

P/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maurice View Post
sorry pal, you are wrong. Tested it, and works like a charm. Well that's good then =)

I just went by how the skill is worded, when using Shockwave, there is no target so then how can "other nearby targets" from the spell take the damage? That's my point, the wording for Intensity isn't very good. If 10 foes are balled on you, and you use Shockwave + Intensity, which 9 of the foes take Intensity's damage? That's what i mean, at least for skills like Meteor Shower, Searing Heat, Teinei's Heat, etc, there is a specific target. I don't mind being wrong here, it's just that seeing that Intensity can trigger on spells without targets makes the skill description for it very misleading.