Seems to be a good update as long as onslaught and blinding flash are changed
However, i wonder if so many skill updates are really needed in PvP, it's not like there will be a sudden massive increase of players there as a result of it..
Preview of upcoming skill balances
Missing HB
Leohan
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* Wild Throw: added the following functionality: “All of your non-spear attack skills are disabled for 3 seconds” We’ve seen many Warriors taking this skill without investment in Spear Mastery in order to remove stances. Despite how innovative this is, we feel that this type of skill should require investment in Spear Mastery to be effective, but don’t want to link it to Leadership lest it take away from legitimate A/P or R/P builds. The disable time will make it less appealing to builds utilizing weapon swaps, but keep it viable on dedicated spear builds. |
The fail on less than 4-5 spear mastery sounds like a better plan to me than, making a Imba's build dead.
I know , I know, just don't take the skill. I just find this is the wrong way to change this skill because another class uses it, with no commitment to the attribute. I am talking about PvP and PvE. Yes I use a paragon in PvP.
Edited for a thought after wards:
The skill is called "Wild Throw" adding a fail to hit mechanic would not be to much of a stretch even from a lore perspective.
Skill Description:
"Spear Attack. If this attack hits, it deals +5...17...20 damage and any stance being used by your target ends. This attack cannot be blocked. (50% failure chance with Spear Mastery 4 or less.)"
keli
^Make it 9 and it's ok. On the other hand I don't know if we really need that much Dervish nerf.
DiogoSilva
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Originally Posted by Leohan
Um ok what happens if I am a Imbagon/damage reduction paragon and like to help out my team by taking Wild Throw?
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| But Assassins and Rangers with dedicated Spear Builds won't be hurt? Umm ok. |
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| The fail on less than 4-5 spear mastery sounds like a better plan to me than |
Edit: If anything, by using your Paragon for PvP and take with you Wild Throw, you'll be slightly more relevant because Hammer warriors won't have it anymore - and they'll need it.
AmoebaInfectionTechnique
"The disable time will make it less appealing to builds utilizing weapon swaps, but keep it viable on dedicated spear builds. "
It's explicitly stated in the blog.
It's explicitly stated in the blog.
DiogoSilva
Spirit Bond's change is both for PvE and PvP. The original text said otherwise, but it has been corrected by them now.
lemming
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Originally Posted by Kunder
One has to be impressed that the combo went so long before people started exploiting it though. Obviously the meta game still goes on in some form.
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Also, in the interests of promoting better discussion: http://www.teamquitter.com/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=28125
Ayuhmii Shanbwa
whoops, my bad, i didnt read well as i was tired at the time
but doesnt change the fact i'd like to see 100% pve/pvp splits
i didnt even know about builds which require that 1 spear skill and the rest other attack skills o_O
(i use own made builds)
i read "skills" instead of "attack skills"
well anyway, i think they shouldnt be in a rush with either changing stuff or release such info, until they know for sure its good
this list doesnt look bad, although that monk skill could use a split imo, as i dont see any problems with it as it is atm in pve, but its not that much of a problem to me
i still have faith in anet, even after GW2 for GW
but doesnt change the fact i'd like to see 100% pve/pvp splits
i didnt even know about builds which require that 1 spear skill and the rest other attack skills o_O
(i use own made builds)
i read "skills" instead of "attack skills"
well anyway, i think they shouldnt be in a rush with either changing stuff or release such info, until they know for sure its good
this list doesnt look bad, although that monk skill could use a split imo, as i dont see any problems with it as it is atm in pve, but its not that much of a problem to me
i still have faith in anet, even after GW2 for GW
Coast
most of these changes seem nice, maybe they could added aos and b stance nerf too tho(like max 2 kd's prevented or so)
Malganis
I'm glad to see Onslaught getting a slight nerf. I'm still surprised that Dervishes have such easy, maintainable IAS, while Warriors' & Paragons' IAS comes with drawbacks such as taking double damage or -20 armor. I dont even play a warrior character and I think its unfair.
DiogoSilva
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Originally Posted by Malganis
I'm glad to see Onslaught getting a slight nerf. I'm still surprised that Dervishes have such easy, maintainable IAS, while Warriors' & Paragons' IAS comes with drawbacks such as taking double damage or -20 armor. I dont even play a warrior character and I think its unfair.
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Axel Zinfandel
Guys, just throwing this out here, but most PvE paragons only use two attack skills. three at most. Few people run spear chucking builds in PvE. So yes, this affects PvE paragons a good deal. Another very unnecessary nerf.
Outerworld
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Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
Guys, just throwing this out here, but most PvE paragons only use two attack skills. three at most. Few people run spear chucking builds in PvE. So yes, this affects PvE paragons a good deal. Another very unnecessary nerf.
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jazilla
Kinda stoked on these changes. Really glad SS didn't take a hit. I am still enjoying my Double Dragon build atm though, but I will have to play with some of this stuff once it goes live.
MithranArkanere
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Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel
Guys, just throwing this out here, but most PvE paragons only use two attack skills. three at most. Few people run spear chucking builds in PvE. So yes, this affects PvE paragons a good deal. Another very unnecessary nerf.
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The change will only affect non-spear attacks. This means warriors can't use it as effectively instead their own stance removals without going fully spear.
I'm feeling a bit bad for warriors, though. I've never been killed by a warrior in PvP, ever, regardless of the profession I was using. They can do some stuff, but they feel like they can't do half the stuff others can, and others can do anything warriors can.
Xenomortis
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
and others can do anything warriors can.
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Seriously, in the entire history of this game, only one other profession has really put itself in competition with the Warrior, and even that hasn't been continuous.
Swingline
The Warriors low standing today is a product of massive power creep. He must rely on secondary profession skills and others to cleanse the all too common Blind condition and also knockdown chains to effectively kill enemy healers... woops the monk just used b stance.
PvE is where the Warrior needs the most attention. His damage has been pitiful ever since the AS nerf and hes been reduced to defy pain tanking, but then again a SF sin can tank better. To do any real damage he must have a support profession with S&H, Splinter and/or Orders.
PvE is where the Warrior needs the most attention. His damage has been pitiful ever since the AS nerf and hes been reduced to defy pain tanking, but then again a SF sin can tank better. To do any real damage he must have a support profession with S&H, Splinter and/or Orders.
Malganis
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Originally Posted by DiogoSilva
I guess being strippable, and requiring another enchantment to be maintanable, balances it out.
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Killed u man
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Originally Posted by Swingline
PvE is where the Warrior needs the most attention. His damage has been pitiful ever since the AS nerf and hes been reduced to defy pain tanking, but then again a SF sin can tank better. To do any real damage he must have a support profession with S&H, Splinter and/or Orders.
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It's obviously kinda "sad" that the Warrior class in PvE relies on buffs from other professions, but the same can be said about most classes. Look at Monks. Where would Monks be if they weren't allowed to take other professions in their teambuild, same said for mesmers.
I would focus more on the actual problem classes, which are still the Paragon and the Ranger.
jazilla
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
I would focus more on the actual problem classes, which are still the Paragon and the Ranger.
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I would love to see the Motivation line get some love in PvE. It would be great to see it reverted to its initial release state and split from PvP which I think it should have been when they introduced PvP/Pve splits and inexplicably wasn't.
I am posting this after they announced that GW2 is confirmed for release this year, so it needs love NOW. I don't see myself jumping in GW1 after GW2 is released except to see what my b-day presents are.
Gill Halendt
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Originally Posted by Killed u man
Yeah, but that damage outclasses pretty much every other damage other there. I alone, as a warrior, can kill 2 groups in Slaver's HM with no more than handfull of hits.
It's obviously kinda "sad" that the Warrior class in PvE relies on buffs from other professions, but the same can be said about most classes. |
Damage-wise it's still pretty competitive today, as you mention.
Other classes being grossly overpowered and versatile is the problem.
Skyy High
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
I'm feeling a bit bad for warriors, though. I've never been killed by a warrior in PvP, ever, regardless of the profession I was using. They can do some stuff, but they feel like they can't do half the stuff others can, and others can do anything warriors can.
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SerenityAlum
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Originally Posted by Leohan
Um ok what happens if I am a Imbagon/damage reduction paragon and like to help out my team by taking Wild Throw? But Assassins and Rangers with dedicated Spear Builds won't be hurt? Umm ok.
The fail on less than 4-5 spear mastery sounds like a better plan to me than, making a Imba's build dead. I know , I know, just don't take the skill. I just find this is the wrong way to change this skill because another class uses it, with no commitment to the attribute. I am talking about PvP and PvE. Yes I use a paragon in PvP. Edited for a thought after wards: The skill is called "Wild Throw" adding a fail to hit mechanic would not be to much of a stretch even from a lore perspective. Skill Description: "Spear Attack. If this attack hits, it deals +5...17...20 damage and any stance being used by your target ends. This attack cannot be blocked. (50% failure chance with Spear Mastery 4 or less.)" |
So why the overkill to a class that already has been nerfed to death; no to mention that the PvE environments has plenty of chant/shout counters. If I need stance removal I take my Paragon or assasin or warrior who has those skills in their primary class set, I certainly don't take my ranger (a class which due to nerfs has basically become one of apply condtions) with a bow - as there are no stance removals in that primary skill class.
This is a self-perpetuating problem - nerfs beget nerfs - thats why there is a beta period - not a game at its 6th year anniversary where there are only loyalist and beginners left.
The use of the "wild throw" cheat in the current PvP meta is typical abuse by the PvP'ers - why the overkill.
As the quote above suggests tie it a to rank in Spear Mastery (somewhere between 4 and 9) so the Primary profession for which it was introduced (Paragon - Nightfalls - let see it has functioned without complaints for what >3 years) can be more than a "support" character.
MithranArkanere
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Originally Posted by Xenomortis
No, they can't. They really cannot.
Seriously, in the entire history of this game, only one other profession has really put itself in competition with the Warrior, and even that hasn't been continuous. |
They have many options, but they are not obvious.
For example, instead having skills that remove conditions like all the others martial weapon users, they have a skill to endure while the conditions go away, or use a secondary profession skill to lose conditions.
Why was wild throw used instead the warrior's own stance removals?
Because switching to a spear and using it was more effective than using two skill slots for Wild Strike, or losing all adrenaline, or using up the elite slot.
Condition removal is a more extreme case, by not having a condition removal themselves, that limits their options when choosing a skill that removes conditions to those of secondaries.
This is not people using something that feels better, but something that they wouldn't have otherwise.
And that causes that 'feel' of limited options compared to other martial professions.
If, for example, warriors got a way to lose blindness and weakness, they would no longer need to pick a secondary that can remove conditions, and that gives them the freedom to choose something else.
Oh, well, that limits it to elementalists and mesmers, since all the other professions can remove conditions from themselves.
This issue is better addressed in GW2, by giving each profession a little bit of most things.
lemming
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
"Feel" is not the same as "fact".
They have many options, but they are not obvious. For example, instead having skills that remove conditions like all the others martial weapon users, they have a skill to endure while the conditions go away, or use a secondary profession skill to lose conditions. Why was wild throw used instead the warrior's own stance removals? Because switching to a spear and using it was more effective than using two skill slots for Wild Strike, or losing all adrenaline, or using up the elite slot. Condition removal is a more extreme case, by not having a condition removal themselves, that limits their options when choosing a skill that removes conditions to those of secondaries. This is not people using something that feels better, but something that they wouldn't have otherwise. And that causes that 'feel' of limited options compared to other martial professions. If, for example, warriors got a way to lose blindness and weakness, they would no longer need to pick a secondary that can remove conditions, and that gives them the freedom to choose something else. Oh, well, that limits it to elementalists and mesmers, since all the other professions can remove conditions from themselves. This issue is better addressed in GW2, by giving each profession a little bit of most things. |
1. they do less damage
2. they're harder to play
3. they're slower
don't take my word for it tho
DiogoSilva
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Originally Posted by SerenityAlum
The use of the "wild throw" cheat in the current PvP meta is typical abuse by the PvP'ers - why the overkill.[/B]
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Alathin
Yay, I think this update just went live, am I wrong?