Assassin
* Fox Fangs (PvP): reduced bonus damage to 10…25.
* Leaping Mantis Sting: reduced bonus damage to 5…15.
Dervish
* Crippling Victory: increased adrenaline cost to 6; removed Cripple from AoE component.
* Onslaught (PvP): removed 25% movement-speed increase.
* Twin Moon Sweep (PvP): reduced damage by 25%.
* Wearying Strike: increase adrenaline cost to 6.
Elementalist
* Blinding Flash: increased recharge to 8 seconds.
* Glyph of Sacrifice: added the following functionality: “Ends prematurely if you use a non-spell skill.”
* Obsidian Flame (PvP): split for PvP; reduced damage to 22…92.
Monk
* Shield Guardian: reduced cost to 5 Energy; increased casting time to 1.5 seconds.
* Spirit Bond: reduced healing threshold to 50 damage; reduced healing to 30…90.
* Spirit Bond (PvP): reduced healing threshold to 50 damage; reduced healing to 30…90.
Paragon
* Wild Throw: added the following functionality: “All of your non-spear attack skills are disabled for 3 seconds”
Ranger
* Melandru’s Shot: reduced recharge to 8 seconds.
Warrior
* Enraged Smash (PvP): split for PvP; increased recharge to 10 seconds.
* Yeti Smash: removed 1 second activation; reduced adrenaline cost to 6.
Update - January 23, 2012
lemming
Bristlebane
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* Spirit Bond: reduced healing threshold to 50 damage; reduced healing to 30…90. * Spirit Bond (PvP): reduced healing threshold to 50 damage; reduced healing to 30…90. |
Zylo16
Did this update cause anyone else's Guild Wars clients to stop working? Now mine won't load.
Elnino
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Originally Posted by Bristlebane
Ah so they did reduce both the PvE and PvP version. In the preview only PvP-version was mentioned. Now here's the 1 million ecto question:
What's the difference between the PvE and PvP version now, and why ain't they merged? |
Essence Snow
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Originally Posted by Bristlebane
Ah so they did reduce both the PvE and PvP version. In the preview only PvP-version was mentioned. Now here's the 1 million ecto question:
What's the difference between the PvE and PvP version now, and why ain't they merged? |
ninja'd ^^
Bristlebane
Alright, 3.15am and time to sleep. Should teach me to comment on skills this late lol.
Edited my original post. Winner can claim their 1 million ecto here, tell them Bristlebane sent you
Edited my original post. Winner can claim their 1 million ecto here, tell them Bristlebane sent you
Kunder
50 damage limit in PvE means that the average caster wanding probably activates it now. Probably works for decent healing under SY.
Other things have all been discussed in the preview thread, not much more to add. Still don't like the Wild Throw change, a warrior carrying a spear to throw before engaging in melee combat was historically a very often used combination, and mechanically it seems heavy-handed.
Other things have all been discussed in the preview thread, not much more to add. Still don't like the Wild Throw change, a warrior carrying a spear to throw before engaging in melee combat was historically a very often used combination, and mechanically it seems heavy-handed.
Swingline
The warrior needs to have some of his stance removals changed then. Wild Blow should not remove adrenaline.
Relyk
500/smite should be much easier on players now.
Hephaestus Ram
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Originally Posted by Zylo16
Did this update cause anyone else's Guild Wars clients to stop working? Now mine won't load.
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You might have to right click and "run as administrator" if you're set up
to keep programs from changing executable files.
lemming
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Originally Posted by Swingline
The warrior needs to have some of his stance removals changed then. Wild Blow should not remove adrenaline.
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MithranArkanere
The "Not bad" meme came to my mind for some reason.
Look at that. I may actually start considering Shield Guardian and Spirit bond for my monk and hero monk builds now.
I think it should, but not all adrenaline. I liked the change to exhaustion, it allowed better fine-tune of the effect. Maybe something like that could be done, replacing "Lose all adrenaline" effects with effects like, for example "Lose X strikes of adrenaline" or "Lose X% adrenaline".
I know how fast can warriors get adrenaline up again, but I still dislike absolute effects like that. They tend to break the flow, making things too much "all or nothing".
Look at that. I may actually start considering Shield Guardian and Spirit bond for my monk and hero monk builds now.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Swingline
The warrior needs to have some of his stance removals changed then. Wild Blow should not remove adrenaline.
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I know how fast can warriors get adrenaline up again, but I still dislike absolute effects like that. They tend to break the flow, making things too much "all or nothing".
Lanier
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Originally Posted by Kunder
a warrior carrying a spear to throw before engaging in melee combat was historically a very often used combination,
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That said, I remember once using a build on my warrior in PvE where I would go /p and start each battle with a Spear of Fury + some condition skill (maybe a find their weakness with moderate command spec?). It was kind of fun to roleplay with the whole "realistically using a javelin" bit, and it wasn't totally useless since I started each battle with a good chunk of adrenaline.
Swingline
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Originally Posted by lemming
or hammer warriors could do stuff other than hit monks exclusively
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Hammer Warriors do other things besides hit the monk. The good Warrior will put pressure on others then switch for the KD chain and spike and the monk will know when the Warrior is coming for the spike. The problem with Warriors is and always has been a lack of self profession support to remove blind and the lack of decent stance removal.
Wild Blow needs to change to Strength with a less than five fail component. Then it needs to remove the adrenaline loss. The skill already has a 8 second recharge. Most of the time if someone pops a stance in PvP they are invincible to melee. There should be better options for the Warrior to remove it. He is the master of stances after all.
Reverend Dr
I just checked crippling victory. The cripple mechanic is now tied to the "on hit" so it no longer cripples on a miss/block. A good thing.
For some reason it just now hit me. Spirit bond now triggers on regular axe crits. At 14 axe 60 armor a crit was 59 damage, just under spirit bond range.
For some reason it just now hit me. Spirit bond now triggers on regular axe crits. At 14 axe 60 armor a crit was 59 damage, just under spirit bond range.
IrishX
Does anyone actually have 60 AR anymore, though?
Slowpokeking
Skills balance only? When will we get WoC's last part?
Elnino
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Originally Posted by Swingline
lolwut?
Hammer Warriors do other things besides hit the monk. The good Warrior will put pressure on others then switch for the KD chain and spike and the monk will know when the Warrior is coming for the spike. The problem with Warriors is and always has been a lack of self profession support to remove blind and the lack of decent stance removal. Wild Blow needs to change to Strength with a less than five fail component. Then it needs to remove the adrenaline loss. The skill already has a 8 second recharge. Most of the time if someone pops a stance in PvP they are invincible to melee. There should be better options for the Warrior to remove it. He is the master of stances after all. |
Pew
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Originally Posted by Swingline
lolwut?
Hammer Warriors do other things besides hit the monk. |
Swingline
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Originally Posted by Elnino
A good warrior won't make it known when a spike's coming. Also, Forceful Blow.
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I see your Forceful blow and raise you a Protector's Defense.
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Originally Posted by Pew
Wild Throw meant that they didn't have to.
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Veldan
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Swingline
Wild Blow needs to change to Strength with a less than five fail component. Then it needs to remove the adrenaline loss. The skill already has a 8 second recharge. Most of the time if someone pops a stance in PvP they are invincible to melee. There should be better options for the Warrior to remove it. He is the master of stances after all.
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Besides, if warriors could remove stances like that and have all their adrenaline, there would be no protection possible vs warriors. They would just remove it, and spike you right after.
zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by Veldan
Wild blow needs to stay as it is. It's a great skill, being unblockable stance removal that always crits.
Besides, if warriors could remove stances like that and have all their adrenaline, there would be no protection possible vs warriors. They would just remove it, and spike you right after. |
There is no use-case for it:
Remove stance and then what ... build up adrenaline and spike after that? That is laughable - stance would recharge by time you regained adrenaline.
Or use it as finisher after spike? Yeah, right ...
Crit itself is not worth adrenal cost either, neither is unblockablity.
You might make it work on WE warrior, but why would you want to... Or you can slot it on some caster to help out with melee spike, but that one can as easily be done with wild throw nowadays. Or maybe on sin ... but they kinda have decent-ish stance removal already.
Veldan
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Remove stance and then what ... build up adrenaline and spike after that?
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Also, no adrenaline doesn't mean you can't attack, there's always power strike / bulls strike. It just means you can't make your most powerful combo, which is exactly how it should be, in my opinion. And it seems like Anet shares that opinion.
papryk
I bet that ppl will now start to use Forceful Blow
Fluffy Kittens
boring bbways and op balas will be back.. sigh (talking about HA)
Skyy High
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Originally Posted by IrishX
Does anyone actually have 60 AR anymore, though?
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Xsiriss
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Originally Posted by Veldan
And this is where many people forget something important: PvP is not 1v1.
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zwei2stein
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Veldan
And this is where many people forget something important: PvP is not 1v1. If you remove a block stance, that other warrior can suddenly also hit the monk again. That's why wild blow has always had its uses.
Also, no adrenaline doesn't mean you can't attack, there's always power strike / bulls strike. It just means you can't make your most powerful combo, which is exactly how it should be, in my opinion. And it seems like Anet shares that opinion. |
You can argue that someone can take it off-spec (casters/ranger), but that requires positioning that can be luxury. But theese offspec helpers are much better off with Wild Throw even after recent change.
As for power Attack & co: in order for warrior to function well enough to be worth party slot with energy attacks, you need to have bar dedicated to it and you need to waste elite skill on it (Warrior's Endurance). Or you can get alternative source of adrenaline (Rage of the Ntouka).
I do agree that warriors do not need easy to use stance removal, my main disagreement is that you called what they have Great Skill (which is way too flattering description, "Okay Skill" is being generous. And there is nothing wrong with okay skill...)
It is too similar to Glyph of Sacrifice / Glyph of Essence - really interesting functionality in theory, but which costs too much to use.
Essence Snow
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Originally Posted by Xsiriss
Warriors are countered the hardest by stances, dervish have higher attack speeds and more utility skill aside from attacks and the obviously it counters the niche of warriors KD'ing. Often warriors pressure people alone for just that, pressure rather than focusing. Removing stances is important and there isn't a reliable way of doing so without massive down sides (both grapple and wild blow), and this is meant to be the warrior's niche. It's a lot easier to do as suggested and move it to wild blow to strength and make it fail without investment than to keep hitting stances.
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Coast
Only wild throw could be considered an issue cause it was ranged and had no downside, imo it even was worth an elite spot.
Reverend Dr
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Originally Posted by Skyy High
My thought exactly.
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Swingline
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Originally Posted by Reverend Dr
People are caught in 40/40 sets more often than they would like to admit. My point was that the spirit bond change is (well assuming axe warriors come back) a fundamental change in warrioring vs spirit bond. As previously there was no way an auto attacking axe warrior was going to trigger spirit bond and now it is a possibility. I'm not saying anyone should run lower armor to trigger spirit bond, but getting caught in 40/40 is more of a possibility than many would let on.
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floor
I guess there is an argument that the Wild Throw Nerf could possibly be a bad thing from the point of view of RA, but then nobody really tries to balance the game around RA alone.
From an 8v8 perspective i dont see it being a problem, just run whirling axe on another melee and co-ordinate with ur hammer? In a team setting where you can choose ur team composition there are always ways of getting the job done, and if it requires more thought than just brainlessly prot camping then thats great
From an 8v8 perspective i dont see it being a problem, just run whirling axe on another melee and co-ordinate with ur hammer? In a team setting where you can choose ur team composition there are always ways of getting the job done, and if it requires more thought than just brainlessly prot camping then thats great
lemming
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Originally Posted by Swingline
It happens all the time. Players want to win but not everyone is obsessed with this e-sport fad. It takes time to switch weapon sets and sometimes I miss it by a mere 1/10th of a second. I welcome the new Spirit Bond.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by floor
From an 8v8 perspective i dont see it being a problem, just run whirling axe on another melee and co-ordinate with ur hammer? In a team setting where you can choose ur team composition there are always ways of getting the job done, and if it requires more thought than just brainlessly prot camping then thats great
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KotCR
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Originally Posted by Essence Snow
There are several instances in pve (shiro namely) where stance removal comes in great handy.
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Heck, you could just throw it on any of your caster heroes there to be fair, and just have them use it without difficulty.
I wouldn't object to a Strength-linked Wild Blow with less downside for PvE only though at all.
Martin Alvito
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lemming
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing; it's definitely a bit weird that it took them more than three years to acknowledge that Wild Throw on hammer warriors is something that might be worth toning down, though.
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Or, to put it another way: when everyone universally runs the same secondary for a given class (especially when it's a critical class like Mo), you have a problem. Mo/N OoB apparently wasn't fine, and neither was Mo/Me Mantra/PDrain, nor Mo/A Return/Dark Escape...but Mo/W is?
Kunder
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
Which in turn implies that the game should not be balanced around stances that never should have been buffed in the first place.
Or, to put it another way: when everyone universally runs the same secondary for a given class (especially when it's a critical class like Mo), you have a problem. Mo/N OoB apparently wasn't fine, and neither was Mo/Me Mantra/PDrain, nor Mo/A Return/Dark Escape...but Mo/W is? |
Mo/R Melandru's Resilience next?
HigherMinion
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
Which in turn implies that the game should not be balanced around stances that never should have been buffed in the first place.
Or, to put it another way: when everyone universally runs the same secondary for a given class (especially when it's a critical class like Mo), you have a problem. Mo/N OoB apparently wasn't fine, and neither was Mo/Me Mantra/PDrain, nor Mo/A Return/Dark Escape...but Mo/W is? |
I don't think stances are overpowered, though, because if you don't have stances, you just have more reliance on blind. No blind or cripple=you'll get pressured out. But then you just start running more prots. Prots are good; Guardian will see use again and Spirit Bond is looking nice at the moment. I think Shield Bash needs a nerf, and Mirage Cloak. Monking would be much more fun and involved if it wasn't just about redbarring, but players being good at kiting, crippling, blinding and Guardian placement. Dolyak Signet is fine because a monk self-snaring itself is hilarious.
bhavv
I still see monks with R, E, and A secondaries, and they work very well in a lot of situations. Mo/W isnt always the best chioice if an individual player is able to manage redbarring and keeping their team alive better with other secondary skill.
I always thougt that wild strike was the best stance removal in the game and always use it with golden fox strike when playing a sin in RA. Stances get removed with no difficulty.
Even if you bring stance removal, a monk could just use Guardian. TBH melee damage and particularly KD warriors can easilly shut down and kill a monk without any counters, and thats why we have and need block and blind skills.
The new spirit bond looks great, but its still 10e, if you have a semi capable e denial mesmer on your group, enemy monks should never be able to remain on 10e, they wouldbe stuck at 0 and needing to spam WoH as soon as they hit 5 energy (easy diversion for a slightly more capable mesmer).
Monks have the hardest time in PVP, so many people run anti monk shut down builds, and so many incompetent players always attack monks first instead of disabling / killing the enemy monk killer first.
I always thougt that wild strike was the best stance removal in the game and always use it with golden fox strike when playing a sin in RA. Stances get removed with no difficulty.
Even if you bring stance removal, a monk could just use Guardian. TBH melee damage and particularly KD warriors can easilly shut down and kill a monk without any counters, and thats why we have and need block and blind skills.
The new spirit bond looks great, but its still 10e, if you have a semi capable e denial mesmer on your group, enemy monks should never be able to remain on 10e, they wouldbe stuck at 0 and needing to spam WoH as soon as they hit 5 energy (easy diversion for a slightly more capable mesmer).
Monks have the hardest time in PVP, so many people run anti monk shut down builds, and so many incompetent players always attack monks first instead of disabling / killing the enemy monk killer first.
floor
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bhavv
if you have a semi capable e denial mesmer on your group, enemy monks should never be able to remain on 10e, they wouldbe stuck at 0 and needing to spam WoH as soon as they hit 5 energy (easy diversion for a slightly more capable mesmer).
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