let us open the gate by ourselves.(part 2)

I made a post about this but it was locked by a mod because there was another post about it but that other post is dead and I doubt Anet will see it so please dont lock this.


In guildwars prophecies pre searing you need another player to open the gate for you in order to get into the north to hunt charr, now I think this is an area of the game that does not resemble the adventuring not waiting model and more resembles games like WoW were players have to stand around for a long time saying over and over "looking for gate opener paying 100g".
Anet should simply just move the lever to right in front of the gate where any one person can open it by themselves.

I also think this promotes gold farming where anybody can create a new character and just stand around and spam opening gate for 100g and make super fast money without actually playing the game.
I hope there is nothing like this in gw2 because it would be a gigantic flaw.

I don't think it hurts the gameplay, pre-searing always has been a learning environment, getting people to learn the mechanics of the game. This being the only lever in Pre, I think it was put in to help people understand the use of these objects (they reappear in many Missions throughout Tyria)
People were never ment to stay in Pre Permanently, normaly you just move on with the game.

It is annoying yes, but it's a win-win situation for both parties. One gets the 100gold (which is a lot because you can find people willing to do it for less) And the other person gets a chance of farming Char and making 1k~ on a average run


Side note: making super fast money without playing? You can't earn money in that way. You know the price of a Goth? of a black dye? of a perfect Charr Shield? it would take a long long time making money this way

As above, this "system" has been used for ...ever, and does not need to be changed.
a "full" charr-run will net you (should if you pick everything up) over 100g, so yeah, you arent loosing that much.

Why want the change now in fact now there is not a great need to do so since the Dailys have been introduced.

You can hold onto any daily for days as long as you dont turn it in and just kill a few groups and go back out.

Casual players can get LDOA within a week without even going into the Northlands so keep it as it is .

Well duh dunno if another thread on the same old topic will be kept open, but...
I'm always very very pro this idea. I mean, they even put 7 heroes to help people do things by themselves, why do we still need someone else for a stupid lever?
And for people talking about how simple it is to pay someone for it - well it isn't. Not everybody plays in american district, and I don't want to be forced to hop on there just for someone to pull a stupid lever for me. In the most desert districts if you ask for such a service you either are going to be aswered with bad words, not answered at all, or helped by someone for free (I always helped for free). So you see it's not just about "spending 100 worthles gold".
I personally only went to charrlands twice, and it was cause of a friend playing with me, and this counting I made ldoa on a char and have another one whoìs perma-pre...and I won't ever be able to go there again unless they change it, just cause I don't wanna have to change districts just for that.

And oh please, the old motivation of "it's always been like that, so no reason to change it" it's totally stupid. If we should apply it to every suggestion this game would have never received a single update in all its history.

Half of us are running multiple accounts and opening the gate via GWMultilaunch. I'm also noticing a lot of people in pre having a hard time getting a GM due to a dwindling player base. I see no reason to keep up this burdensome policy (unless Anet is hoping it will encourage more gung ho pre-searing players to buy a 2nd account...).

/signed

Really, i think that they wount put up any minor updates untill gw2 comes out, and tbh i dont see this getting fixed either.

I agree with the OP....

It only takes once to get burned by someone who requires the payment first, then maps out before pulling the lever...or you state you will pay once the lever is pulled, and are accused of trying to cheat someone.

It also is a pain to get folks to open the gate if you're playing at the "wrong" time(s).

I had one person refuse to map out, several years ago, even though they received payment...they also wanted to go "farming"...I wanted to try soloing.

So, yes, even though the original intent of Pre was to introduce folks to the game before they went Post, the community has developed a fond appreciation for Pre...
It has got to be one of the BEST "tutorials" in a game I ever tried...
When I first started playing, I didn't even know it was a "tutorial", and was shocked when I entered the Academy, and didn't want to leave!

I now maintain a perma-pre presence, as well as my Post characters....
Again, whatever the original intent, something fun and unexpected developed and a "Pre-community" was created, and it would really be helpful and less frustrating if one could solo-manage the lever...or even "pay" Gate Guard Torin 50g to open it for us....

Nice post, Sonic

100g loss 1 outta 100 times and you think its harsh?

You do realize that playing in that area was designed to be a two person activity, right?
They never intended people to stay in pre-searing forever. For all intensive purposes, that area was designed for 2 players, as you aren't suppose to be able to do it on your own. It was intended to just be used for the one or two quests that take place there, because you are suppose to move on and play the other 99% of the game.

Anet has long aknwoledged that people don't use that place just as a tutorial anymore and that there's a quite big community there. And that's why they made the vanguard quests. Do you think that, if it was still intended for a tutorial only, they would have bothered putting effort into creating quests for lvl 10+? LdoA itself defeats it being only a tutorial....

Not a big issue, more of a quirk.
But as you say if its not suggested it won't happen at all.

/signed

same happened to me once payed 100g and *poof* gone like the wind.

I don't know if this was apocryphal or not, but someone was claiming that they lost a pre-update LDOA because some jerk joined up as a Gate monkey and then took the post-searing quest (but it seems like you could abort that).

My idea is that the guard will let you in if you're level 14 or higher. That way both system can co-exist.
* Gate monkeys can make still make some easy cash.
* New player will still *cough* "learn" about adventuring.
* Elder players have proven to the guard they can take care of themselves.

hmm, not bad, as in the future, i doubt many people will stay after GW2 is out

for those who wanna stay in pre doing charr killing or vanguard quests, it could be better to prepare for the future

i already am preparing for that, as i kinda need lot of help due to my handicaps, and i already have just a very few people ingame left who can help SOMETIMES
so i'm not gonna do hard stuff (hard for me), but pre sear should be easy

i first was "i'm gonna post something like i dont care" but after reconsidering, i think this'll be great for those few who stay in pre

timezones is bad, as i saw american full of afk-ers and a very few talking, or questing people at 1 time, but another time, i saw them gatemonkey-ing like mad

also good example, GW2 release + timezone difference = way less people in pre sear

we got res sig for teaming up, and if anet wants people to learn to work together with levers and using levers itself, they can open the door from lvl 10 on (when the vanguard quests start), so that people learn until the LDoA change will be enabled

but i think thats more work than just opening the door, or at least let it stay open until the person zones

my idea: let the lever stay, but let people use it to open the door (while the door stays open until you zone), that way they learn about normal levers

So, uh, has anyone here come up with a reason not to impliment this suggestion? I keep seeing "buts its been like that forever" or "pre was designed for 2 people parties", but haven't seen a reason why this shouldn't be implimented, and it would take a lot of the burden off of pre players.

/signed

Once the charr mission with Prince Ruric is over then yes it should be added that the guard opens the gate for you automatically.

Its really not a problem for players who are just following the storyline and moving on, its really for the players who are staying.

Would like it done if its only a minor programming problem.

This has been proposed so many times and each time it gets shot down. I don't understand why one would play a co-op game then refuse to co-op for one of the only two things that you must co-op for. Shesh... If you don't like the way it is, play another game. There are several instances where mechanics like this are used through out the game, do you want them to change everything so it is solo-farmable?
The only people that this is a problem for are those that are farming the charr. Get a partner and go at it or go away; your choice.

/not even close to signing.

Hmmm Just curious has anyone at Anet or affiliated w/ anet actually shot this down? (apologies if they have)
and-No. Just make this 1 gate solo-able...

Only reasons against it so far are..?
1) Its so you learn...
2) Its always been that way.
3) Noobs need gate money (even though solo farm gets you way more AND dye.)
4) Anet has bigger things.
ehhh i give up..

If this happened to be honest i would seriously look at getting a permanent PRE character. I love Pre! Any improvement is a positive one in my eyes. Doing this would not degrade anything, only improve some players experience.

Let's compare these 2 examples :
- some guy is playing( helping someone) and earns 50/100 gold every 5mins
- some guy is syncing codex with 4 accounts and earns title points , factions and a strongbox every 5 mins without actually playing

I surely agree that there shouldn't be 2 players needed to go there, but i don't believe that example is anything compared to all these abuses in the game..

It's still a sort of abuse, and that's not how the game should be played.
What you saying is like: "Oh, he robbed 10 stores, why wouldn't I go and rob 2 stores, it's not a big deal."
What I don't understand is, why doesn't Live Team make some time to fix those issues. It wouldn't take longer than few minutes.

Adding a lever to better place so people can open the gate by themselves = very simple

Since you mentioned codex, I'll go a bit off topic now.
Entering a codex match and banning those people (read: bots) who:
1. afk all the time but still somehow magically enter the match again right after they lost.
2. Have 55hp and a vampiric set so they die right when the match starts giving the opponent a free win.
3. Resign right away and re-enter again (and repeat that for like forever).

I know that proving that they really are bots may be difficult but they could at least use common sense and ban those accounts for match manipulation.

100g income every ~2 minutes is garbage. Thats 3k/hour, assuming you have a constant stream of people to open for. I don't know why you'd be jelly of that. If you are, you're an idiot.

/signed x 10 million

Nothing gets more boring than standing in town for 10 mins spamming 'lfgm 100g'

While I have never had to hang around very long before getting a gate Monkey to help me I still think it should be altered.

Prophesies may have the best storyline and the best learning curve for new players but it is showing its age.
There are some parts of the game that could do with being looked over to make them GW 2012 instead of gw 2005.
Each game brought in new innovations to hopefully improve the game.

Staying in pre was a quirk that only a few took part in but once titles came out and the hom more and more players are seeing it as a serious option.
Many players now stay to lvl 20 with at least one character, there is no longer a reason not to do this.

Not that I will use it much I have done all I want to in GW and am just awaiting gw2

Get a grip it's Pre Searing - it allready went ultra ultra easy mode with all the bags, kits, new quests etc etc.

Pull a lever make a friend it's the basic concept of team play in Guild Wars, you scratch my back I'll scratch yours. Try reinstating the LFP PSCGO ( pre searing community gate opener) system if that's fallen out of favour...

As I mentioned many times before, the only thing I would do is to make Gate Guard Torin pull the lever for you for 100g, AFTER you have completed Across the Wall.

After you bribe him, Torin's bodyblock is disabled, and he runs to the lever, pulls it, and runs back down to his spot, and his bodyblock is enabled again.
If you doze off and miss the door opening, you have to pay again, because you only paid Torin to pull the lever.

If you want it to be faster or cheaper, find yourself a gatemonkey.
If you can't find or don't want a gatemonkey, you still have this alternative.


That keeps both gatemonkeys alive, and those that want to go to the north to farm for items or do Vanguard quests still able to do so.

Yup I as well gave for granted the proposal was in this way, as this was pt2 and this is the way people more or less agreed on. Also supported by the fact Torin becomes a bandit after so accepting bribes at a certain point is coherent to the lore.
Be it after you completed Across the wall and you have reached a certain level (I'd say 10 or even 8 seeing that after lvl 8 there's few you can do other way, but not at much higher lvl like 14(which someone proposed) or just after you completed the quest but yeah, I'll say the quest itself should stay as it is as tutorial and only after that you can have shortcuts.

And, I think I'm posting too much in this thread (usually I don't post more than once in a suggestion anymore not to get into arguements) but I wanted to say, to those saying that it should stay as it is as it's a cooperative game and you should play with others...I hardly consider spamming in town, paying someone to stay with you for few seconds and then done much of a social aspect. Even a run is more of an interaction, at least you stay together more for that...but neither I'd call that playing together, IMHO.

Sell a 2 minute 33% IMS consumable in town for 100g. This would allow you to run to the gate and open the lever yourself before it closes.

Dude Usain Bolt wouldn't even get down there fast enough to go through after pulling the lever himself, it takes 2 seconds to close, even with 33% IMS its like a 20 second run at the least.

im sorry past your "im missing the concept their trying to drill into my head" speach, I got lost in your ramblings...

The whole point that was before the "ill pay x to get you to do bla" was to get "team work" instilled in peoples head so they didnt just do solo missions. the char lands were meant for two people....it was like how we use to use people to run fow...now we use heros...

/signed

Allow us to open the gate ourselves at level 14 or 15 since those level characters can handle that area solo well enough.

no, just allow us to open it by ourselves from the beginning.

I think people are missing the point of 2 people having to open the gate. Is it so bad to ask people to pair up for a simple task? Is 2 minutes lfgm too much? Really??? WOW. Much as I'm sure people hate hearing it, STOP BEING LAZY. If finding someone is too much trouble for you, maybe you are in the wrong type of game. Ascalon is brimming with players. Not as if pre is dead. Grouping(using the term loosely here as its a pair.) isn't your cup of tea, play a real RPG.

is it so bad NOT needing anyone else to go past the wall?

the gate monkey stuff is business now, not much learning or teamplay anymore
and those who wanna do charr killing easier, go with others anyway

i see lots of "LF gate monkey" but also "anyone wanna charr hunt?"
those "LF gate monkey" rather do stuff alone, which destroys several points like "northlands are made for 2 players in teams"
and those who say "anyone wanna charr hunt" like to go with someone else, so they will go do multiplaying anyway

if someone goes killing charr by him or herself, that person wont do multiplayer with that
if someone asks for help or team to kill charr, that player will do even if you could open the gate, as it may be too hard, or the person wants it to be easier

either way, it wont change much, except the people who like to gate monkey all day, maybe those will do something for themselves, like farming charr salavage kits or charr bags

also:
its not about making the game itself easier, as it wont be easier really, it just makes it easier to get to the charr, its not easier to kill the charr or anything, just some faster

so, gimme 1 good reason (i said 1 GOOD (meaning its better toward the game) reason (which is not an opinion) ) not to do this
it makes people happier that they can do whatever they want, just like 7 hero team did

i bet it'll have the same effect on the game as 7 hero did, and i even saw people returning to GW for that

7 hero reduced the amount of runs for fow and such, solo gate opener reduces the amount of money askers in pre

i'm not really against the way it is now, as i helped enough people for free, 1 even gave me something big later on
i'm just with the easier way to play the game, as i dont find asking for money to open a gate or trying to find someone just to open the gate, playing the game
playing the game in this case can be either
- kill charr without needing to ask someone to open the gate, which they even ask money for
- kill the charr with someone else, whether you need someone or not

i've learned in the past few years, that forcing people to join up, isnt even half as effective as giving people freedom (7 hero for example), and before 7 hero was announced, people left cuz they thought it took em too long to do a dungeon, which they already have done, so the game just gets boring

now giving us the possibility to open the gate ourselves, gives us a good feeling of doing something by our own, like 7 hero did, and will make the community happier
as i said: people returned after 7 hero to do stuff with them and try stuff (builds) out on em, either just for fun, or to get the rest of HoM without getting bored by doing loooong dungeons

ps. i am NOT using 7 hero JUST as example, i really saw people coming back

i'm hearing a bunch of moaning and b*tching from players who don't understand that GW was originally intended for group play and thus they wanted to instill that by making some one go with you.


Stop complaining about the easiest part of the game and just accept it.

waste of time and resources. go make a friend instead of making anet waste their time on shit like this.


this isn't comparable to 7h.

2 points:

1. "GW was originally intended for group play"
yes was, and now we have 7 hero teams we can use even with mercenary heroes

2. "Stop complaining about the easiest part of the game and just accept it."
so because its the easiest (to you), we cant have suggestions about it?
what about LDoA, charr bags, charr salvage kits and the new way to get higher lvls, with just quests?
oh and costume and festival hat npc's, which people thought was unimportant

guess the majority of pre sear-ers still think pre sear is important to enjoy, and Anet saw this, which is why it was updated several times, and the last and biggest one wasnt long ago, so i think its still an important area
it supposed to be a tutorial, now its a real part of the game

if Anet would think that everything was supposed to be the way they made it, GW2 wouldnt even exist, and GW would most likely close down (or already ahve been closed down)
so the "dont change it, cuz it was always like that" is not an option, Anet luckily learned that some time ago (like the 7 hero update time)

sry i was quoting to a post which just said "i dont like it, dont do it" but i just wanted to make my point a bit clear(er)

also as i said: people will leave when GW2 is here, maybe not all, but most will leave GW even if its only to see GW2
and most people i saw in pre are just there to take a break or something until GW2 comes out

pre sear is smaller than kamadan, so it'll die much easier
and now that pre sear is a bigger part in GW than it was supposed to be, it should be good enough for people to stay, some i seen even ONLY do pre anymore

ps. i know this as i have a pre sear char (perma, as it stays there)

pre sear has its own community too, not just talking about presearing.com, but the areas itself too, so its important enough
and if that community is gone mostly, then most likely getting charr kills will be impossible, or very rare, and anet didnt add the charr items for nothing

in post we can use a whole team of heroes (except urgoz and the deep) so why not being able to solo pre?

you can say: just ask someone
but its not really helping if you gotta pay for just a gate to open

1 more thing: most levers in GW are for once, and so people will learn about that
newbie: this guard wont let me through.... whats that? *using lever*
ohhhh, thats how
now the last line is: what does it do anyway? huh?? the door closed already??? i'm not that fast o_O

so its not about learning, as they learn how to use a lever alone too that way

i guess thats all i have to say anymore..... enough reasons to do it, and not even 1 really useful/good one NOT to do it

1 edit:
bolded my replies... /end here (for me)

Bit of invalid point seeing as
1. You use this argument for EVERYTHING and its getting a bit lame as a defense.
2. There are no heroes in Pre. Pre is still a learning area, and like every tutorial area in the game, most of the perks are missing(see when you acquire mercenary heroes) in order to get people playing the game as its meant to be played. What you do post tutorial is up to you.


To the bolded text

1. Another invalid point based on "they did x here, they should do x here as well" its getting to be a very tired response.

2. Oh but it is an option. Also see 1.

3. See 1.

4. It wasn't about the lever pull mechanic alone, its about grouping with other players. This is after all an MMO, not just an RPG. If the single forced grouping mechanic isn't important, what do you think the people who are new to the game ( and by the by, people will still buy and play this game even after the release of GW2, so crying "dead game" is a bit premature. Those people will still play Prophecies, They will still go to Pre, they will still need a tutorial. Just because some folks set up a permanent community does not mean that Pre-searing was intended to be permanently populated. You are still meant to move on).

5. As with most of your posts on here, even when given a valid reason you insist on denying it. You regurgitate the same excuses why (3 times in just the post I quoted, so they are underlined in case you miss them.) you believe its all a good idea, then do the whole hands over your ears "Lalalala I can't hear you" routine.

In short you follow the exact same pattern for every one of your posts, then when you don't feel any point meets whatever inane criteria you find acceptable, you reply with "Give me one GOOD reason." Though there are valid points on both sides of this argument, you will continue to view anything contrary to your opinion as bad.

1. there are much more serious things to deal with. It isn't worth appeasing the minority of people who think having someone open the gate is a great inconvenience.

2. You don have to play with anyone. Just pay a tiny amount of gold. its a minimal amount of interaction and you're playing an online game anyway.