What was the point of requireing henchmen/heroes for all PVE content?

Hello everyone, my wife and I recently purchased GW to tide us over until GW2 release and to work on our HoM, we enjoyed the game thoroughly until we realized that we would have to play the rest of the game with large groups of henchmen/heroes following us around all the time... What was the point of this?

I can understand requireing henchmen/heroes for dungeons and difficult areas but for just doing zone quest i would rather run around alone or with just my wife. How has everyone else just tolereated this for so many years?

My wife and I have been talking about giving the game another chance (SWTOR is completely unimpressive, wife doesnt want to go back to Rift, and if we go back to WoW we will have fun for a couple weeks and then sit around being bored in SW). But we starting hateing GW before we even go to max level.

We made characters in factions, I made a necro and she made a warrior. We were cruising through the content and then around level 17 we started wipeing on what seemed to be relatively simple pulls/groups, we put up with this until nearly level 20. Our guildies told us that it would get better after we got some elite skills, which wasnt going to be anytime relatively soon. We were also told that we sucked at makeing groups (suprised since we had been playing the game an entire week, shouldve been pros by then). we were also told that Factions is the worst campaign to start in.

What is a good group for leveling? there arent really that many henchman to choose from, we tried to get a good mix of tank/healer/mdps and rdps what more can go into building a group than that? I really dont want to babysit a group of AI all the time, I want to jsut play my character. Again I ask, what was the reasoning behind requireing henchman/heroes for the ENTIRE game?

I think GW was designed to be a game where all content required groups of players. Henchmen were a way to ease the problem of finding a big group. A group of players was supposed to be the default, not a group of henchies.

Heroes weren't added until Nightfall, and were an answer to the fact that people were playing with henchmen, and henchmen are kinda terrible. If you're gonna play the game with a bunch of AI characters, you might as well be able to monkey with their builds, gear, and control them better than just choosing a NPC at an outpost labeled "Healer" or "Domination" or "Curses".

Allowing seven hero teams were an answer to the fact that GW2 is on the horizon, and people are doing so much of the game solo.

Short answer, the game wasn't designed to require h/h. It was designed to be played by groups. H/H were an answer to the problems with that.

And GW2 is ANet's "back to the drawing board" with some of those very decisions.

You got it the wrong way around.

All content was balanced for a full player group, and then Anet provided henchmen "in case there were no people around to play with".

In time, however, many people started to prefer to play with AIs instead of with players (bad experiences with PUGs, lower and lower numbers of players etc.) and we got the ability to bring more and more AIs in to replace players.

Oh, and BTW, if you don't mind hopping around a bit between campaigns, you can grab many of the elites and heroes that people use as part of the meta pretty early on, then go back to finish up the campaigns. It's a smoother ride that way.

the thing about this game is that if you want to solo or duo in parties on some quests/missions, it would take a longer time/ might be impossible to complete unless you have very specific builds catered to that area/situation.

that is why heros/henchmen are there for you to make your progress much easier. player base has been dwindling, and forming parties with real people can be time consuming. some people prefer to "solo" without playing with other players, and just use the heros and henchmen.

heros and henchmen make it easier to just make your party and then go out quickly. also, with heros and henchmen, you don't have to worry about complaining to at other players for their actions and words. i guess in your case, blame the henchmen/hero a.i.

also, as far as heros and henchmen go, a lot of people think that the melee a.i are pretty terrible to use (because they don't use skill combos well) and they prefer to choose the ranged a.i. i've always played ranged characters but i never really used melee tank hero/henchmen much in my team composition. interrupts (mesmers) are also good to have your party. in parties, it can be useful to use two healers or one healer + one hybrid healer/protector.

i think you can get elite skills early on/mid point in game. just buy a signet of capture and then go out in the field to kill/cap skill of the boss pertaining to your primary or secondary profession. elite skills can really make a difference in your build.

If you play alone, the types of mobs you can fight are pretty limited. Look at the leveling content in WoW: enemies are restricted to "melee attacker", "ranged attacker", "ranged caster", and "healer" for 90% of the solo content, and you mostly fight 1v1 or 1v2. This is because the content has to be designed to be soloable by every class. You also can't face much in the way of coordinated defense or shutdown, because that'd be impossible for a single player to overcome.

GW alleviates this, by making it so you are (almost) always fighting in a group, the types of enemies you can face can be as varied as the types of parties you can put together yourself. You fight organized mobs in GW, with healers, support characters, different kinds of damage coming at you at once. You can face heavy shutdown that relies on your other teammates to cleanse you. Again, none of this is possible in leveling content that is meant to be completed by a single character.

That's why GW is built differently. If you're dying, it's (probably) not because of the henchman selection. They do their jobs just fine, and they don't really require babysitting (in NM, at least), beyond occasionally flagging them out of a big AoE attack....and even that isn't strictly necessary. What IS necessary is that you are capable of pulling properly without overaggroing (ie, don't fight more than one group at once), and that you focus your allies' fire by using ctrl+space to call out the priority target.

First of all, you won't be a "pro" after only a week in the game, especially if you haven't even picked up elite skills. The game is much more complex than one would think. You'll get a good idea of the base mechanics and gameplay in a week, but the deeper nuances and skill sets will take much longer.

As mentioned by the others here, the game was not designed to be soloable or duoable and cannot be played as such without using specific gimmick builds. The H/H were included in the game to make rounding out a full group easier. Also, your guildies are correct, Factions is probably the toughest campaign to start out in. You are better off starting in Nightfall (for early access to Heroes), or in Prophecies (slower pace and better learning curve). Plus in Prophecies, the tutorial area (Pre-Searing) is geared towards solo/duo play, so you might enjoy it a bit more if that's your thing, before you head out into the main campaign.

Hanok

Iuris speaks the truth, back in the days it was very possible to find players to group up with for most of the content. But with the game being old the playerbase have been reduced, and it didn't take that long until the beginnerareas was unpopulated enough for you to require henchmen in order to find a group sometime today. Heroes are just better than henchmen because you can customize your teambuild just as you can with real players (if they are any good), and was a natural step to take when the game got older because the most part of the game is balanced around a party of 8.

As for what good build there are for heroes, take a look at this and work from there: http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Player_Support it is quite fun to create and perfect your own builds though, so just take this as inspirement and/or a startingpoint. (the mesmers are especially useful for their ability to deal aoe damage and control large mobs at the same time; at least 1 minionmaster is recomended as well, for their ability to soak up damage as well as the aoe damage from death nova).

Like others above me said, I think Guild Wars was designed with team-play in mind. Especially later in the game, it becomes harder and harder to solo because the enemy mobs are just too varied alot of the time. Of course, with specific builds you can still solo some high-end stuff, but all-in-all, teamplay is recommended.

That's where henchmen and heroes come in. If there are no human players around, or don't want to play with other humans (like most of us), you can get AI to help you. In my opinion, henchmen are pretty bad. Since you started with Factions you will want to skip over to Elona or Eye of the North to get some heroes.

I think you'll find heroes way more fun to play with than henchmen. You can entirely customize their skillbars, give them your own weapons and boss them around a bit more than henchmen. You can tinker around with the skillbars and make a nice team build that will work in the area you want to fight in.

Hope you'll stay around, have fun!

It's how the game is played nowadays (less players, more heroes). Most players play with heroes or guildies. If you dont want to play with heroes, join a nice guild and play with guildies.

What I've been saying all along.
GuildWars = Single player game with optional multi-player.

I do not understand why you even need an internet conection to play this game unless you were playing with other humans.

GW has no enemy scalling like GW2 has.

When you are in an area of parties of 8, you are supposed to go with around 8 party members.


If you prefer more dinamic parties, so you can go either solo or with a friend or join lots of people, you'll love GW2.

What iv'e always said is: GW is a team game with no emphasis on Player Max Level, max weapon dmg, ect. These were all capped at a low number so that they are "insignificant".
This means Tactics, player skill level and build synergy all have a bigger influence and that this game wasn't turned into a level 99 grindfest for one individual character at a time. (rofl titles aside)
This is the exact thing that puts some people off the game though.
Most people can't stand the way this game is set up as a "team" game.

I think it requires the internet because in 2004~ it was one of the cheapest and best methods of getting:
1) Hack prevention (char files on server)
2) Update and maintenance file flexability.
3) Encouraging guild/team play
4) The obvious lag and time issues with Char files on a pc.
5) events..... ahhh the list goes on.

Yeah, the only thing more dumb would be requiring an internet connection to play Diab.....oh.

Lol, I really think it's appropriate to add this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC9hYBPd9C4
2 Man Deep HM in 14 minutes

But overall, this game is balanced for groups. And basically what you and your wife will have to do is to bring 6 heroes with you in to the game, 6 heroes on the necromancer would be the best choice. While the warrior tanks for the group

On the philosophy of grouping, instances are identical regardless of party size.
The henchmen are there to fill the roles that you don't have humans for. Plus, henchmen are way less likely to screw up than your average PUG....by, like, a factor of a thousand.

Factions is the best campaign to start in, in terms of pure levelling, but you're going to hit a learning curve that is almost vertical.

Since you mentioned you're wiping often, have you upgraded your armor to the best available in your location? It's a common mistake not to, especially in Factions because you should be swapping armor at least twice or three times over the course of getting to the mainland. Also, armor doesn't drop as loot in GW, so you need to be crafting/trading for it at NPC's.

A common source of wiping in the latter part of Shing Jea is AoE damage from Death Nova from the afflicted. Work around this by having the warrior charge in ahead (basically the entire aggro bubble ahead). Ease up the pressure by spiking individual targets down, then healing the warrior who should be taking most of the hit.

Another thing to bear in mind is that melee AI for henchmen is particularly poor, so stick to ranged/casters.

The necromancer player should also be using Animate Bone Minions, which is acquired from the skill chaining quest in Shing Jea.

One thing to bear in mind to is that Taya, the healer hench, lacks any protection abilities, so you'll want to pair her with Aeson, who uses Union as well as providing spirits.

As an aside, this seems a good point to note this : minions and spirits are your friends. Use them, a lot.

Also, whereabouts are you in Factions? You really should be lvl 18 or so before you get to The Marketplace, which is the first city on the mainland.

I completely agree with you on the point about GW requiring groups. One of the fundamental flaws of the game design was the intention that players would always play with a full group of people. Content was simply not designed for parties with less than the maximum number of people. The reason for this is that ArenaNet wanted to make a multi-player game - they wanted players to play together all the time for all of the content - that's why it's an online game. The problem arises when the population drops - parties of 8 people are nearly impossible to form for most content now that the player population is much smaller. It's important to understand, back in 2005/2006/2007 the game had a lot more people running around and it was very easy to form groups to complete content at any point in the game.

When the player population drops a new problem arises - the content still requires 8 people but you can't get that many. That's where heroes (customisable AI alternatatives to henchmen which can be obtained in Nightfall, EotN and new post-game content) and henchmen come in. In that past, henchmen were simply used to fill spots in a player's part (usually it was the monk or the necro henchman being used) but with less players in the game now, AI partners transitioned from being a supportive alternative option to filling out gaps in a players party to being the primary means of completing content. This was not due to the game's design - it wasn't intended to be that way - it's simply the best case scenario for an aged game with a smaller population. Personally I don't like babysitting seven AI partners (and with heroes and decent builds it often feels like they are babysitting you) and I'd rather play a game where my actions are more meaningful (it's hard to feel powerful or valuable in an eight player party) but that's the way Guild Wars was designed - it's always meant to be a truly co-operative game. There are just some flaws to that design which became more obvious over the years.

As far as henchmen party builds are concerned, one tip I can give you is to always bring two healers. Always. This will always mean at least one monk, none of the monk henchmen in the game are smiters (the offensive line in the monk tree) so any monk henchman will do. If you can - bring two, although sometimes there is only one available in which case you should bring the ritualist (I think they are labelled as "Spirit Henchman"). Most players will fill out the rest of their party with caster henchies. This means any combination of mesmers, necromancers or elementalists. The utility these classes provide is great and the AI is far better for casters than it is for melee. You don't need another warrior seeing as one of the players is playing that class. If your necromancer player isn't playing a minion master build, bringing Su the necromancer henchman is a very good idea - minions will act as a distraction from your party, they soak up a lot of damage and powerful spells and hexes. This relieves a lot of pressure on the rest of your party to do what they do well.

If you want the HoM you will need EotN. To get a lot of points it's easiest to have all campaigns. I strongly recommend Nightfall for heroes. You will spend a lot of time with AI companions in this game unfortunately, it can be a lot of fun with a friend though, but it also becomes much easier once you both have some heroes to customise. As you may have noticed, different builds work better than others, henchmen have OK builds but heroes have access to every build in the game, you can do some truly broken things with them.

The thing is though, are you really babysitting heroes and hench any more than you would babysit the other three members of your party in, say, any Final Fantasy game or Dragon Age?

I don't think so, and you certainly shouldn't be..... but that will depend on your build.

If you're just referring to having to haul them around with you as opposed to going off on your own, well, that's pretty much every game that employs a party system ever.

Personally some of us really enjoy having the Heros in the groups and such. I enjoy giving them specific builds, and just watching them run across the screen helping me out in quests and adventuring is a hoot. Koss has been by my side since day one of Nightfall, shooting his jaw off and getting into trouble. I think having them fight side by side.. seeing them in the cut scenes, and having quests around them fleshes out the game at a deeper level than a lot of other games I have played. Their AI is not perfect, as perfection does not exist.. but for me they bring way more good then anything else on many levels. It took awhile for me to acquire certain skills for them with signet capture or purchasing skills, but with proper builds on the Heros they are good allies. I will miss them in GW2.

Ten minutes after leaving Old Ascalon I realized that being able to form parties of 4 actually meant needing parties of 4.

Guildwars was designed to be played with full parties, in the olde days consisting entirely out of player characters but these days usually of one or a few player characters and filled up with henchmen and heroes.

If an outpost indicates a party size of 4 it is advised to venture out with a party size of 4 and while most regular Shing Jea content might be manageable solo the last missions and the continent following will not allow it.

So yes, since it is not likely you'll be able to create full player parties, you will most likely be playing quite a bit with Heroes and Henchmen.