Why am I getting slaughtered?

Ashanor

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Feb 2012

So I started an Assassin and so far I am level 17. I tried to do some EotN and I am getting slaughtered by these things.

http://imageshack.us/f/593/gw007t.jpg/

So I thought maybe I shouldn't be doing this content yet or something, even though I heard it was possible to do EotN first if you wanted. So I went back to the Factions areas and tried to do a Kaineng city quest and I get destroyed again. This time by mobs that have enough AoE to wipe every front line character I have in a few seconds. What am I doing wrong? lol

I also tried with a full group of heroes but all the rest of my heroes are level 11-16.

Dzan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

The Black Dye Cartel

Eotn is something you do after you beat one of the other campaigns and are level 20.

Ashanor

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Feb 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzan View Post
Eotn is something you do after you beat one of the other campaigns and are level 20. What about that other quest?

Strik3r

Strik3r

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Canada

Well, I think the major issue here is your party. It doesn't seem you have changed any of your heroes bar and you have henchmens too. A level 15 hero with a good bar would still be a lot stronger than a level 20 henchmen. I would recommend having 2 healers. Monks or Ritualists, to you preference. If one of them has protective spirit you can manually cast it on yourself whenever you run in and that should help a lot mitigate the damage your receiving. After that, people usually bring a minion master (necro) and a SoS Rit. These 2 will spawn minions/spirits and they will also mitigate a lot of damage for your party. The rest of your team should consist of casters. (usually mesmers since their pretty strong) For the bars I would recommend looking on guild wars pvx. Their not the best but their good for starters. Once you play more, you will really get a good feel in which skills you prefer and etc.

edit: Oh and I forgot. Obviously, if you have some spare money. Runeing up your heroes and equipping them with max damage weapons helps alot. Use survivors insignias if you think they are dieing too much. Giving your heroes runes (ex: rune of domination magic on a mesmer) will also help on the damage.

IchibanK

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2011

E/Mo

I might offer an alternative view here.

If your heroes are still below max level and/or you don't yet have the skills unlocked to give them some decent builds you may find that you're actually much better off with a full team of henchmen (and just a minimal number of heroes - a level 20 Mox can be useful).

You may find you have to let your henchmen do most of the work for a little while - but it shouldn't take you too long to get up to level 20 when the balance should start to restore. From there you can start working on builds for your heroes and things should start to get easier. Once you can start to unlock elites things will pick up.

Oh, and it's entirely optional to spend a lot of money fitting out your heroes - you can fit them with a cheap major rune on their major attribute for a very small cost. Anything more than that isn't really needed for normal modes. It's the build that makes the difference and spending a lot of money before you have the builds will be counter-productive.

Edit:
Also, have you made your way to Kaineng Center yet and got yourself a set of maximum armour?

Ashanor

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Feb 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IchibanK
View Post
I might offer an alternative view here.

If your heroes are still below max level and/or you don't yet have the skills unlocked to give them some decent builds you may find that you're actually much better off with a full team of henchmen (and just a minimal number of heroes - a level 20 Mox can be useful).

You may find you have to let your henchmen do most of the work for a little while - but it shouldn't take you too long to get up to level 20 when the balance should start to restore. From there you can start working on builds for your heroes and things should start to get easier. Once you can start to unlock elites things will pick up.

Oh, and it's entirely optional to spend a lot of money fitting out your heroes - you can fit them with a cheap major rune on their major attribute for a very small cost. Anything more than that isn't really needed for normal modes. It's the build that makes the difference and spending a lot of money before you have the builds will be counter-productive.

Edit:
Also, have you made your way to Kaineng Center yet and got yourself a set of maximum armour? Hey, thanks for the info, both of you. I couldn't afford the max armor but a member of my alliance gave me the mats, and a vigor rune, and 5 nightstalker runes. This happened since I made this post so hopefully it will help. I will try the strategies you guys suggested and see how it goes.

IchibanK

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2011

E/Mo

Your armour will be the main issue if it's not max yet. Work on that as your main priority. If its going to take a while to afford make sure you've got the next best from somewhere like Seitung Harbor.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Armorer

Dar Drakor

Dar Drakor

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2008

Ancient Dragon Disciples [ADD]

N/A

If you have the cash, I would recommend buying the skill packs from GW store. It'll make all of this a whole lot easier. Reason you are dying is probably because your heroes have partial and/or poor skill bars.

As has been said, if you're heroes skills are weak you'd almost be better off just using henchmen. The main benefit of heroes is that you can flag the top 3 separately (which helps against AoE damage heavy foes) but if they can't do much of anything you'd be better off with the clustering with all henchmen.

Based on the pic, you are looking at 2 separate mobs. You're not charging both of them at once are you? That's pretty much an automatic suicide for a poorly skilled and equipped party.

Also your choice of henchmen may not be the best. Eve doesn't summon minions and most of her damage is focused on single enemies. IMO kinda useless for most areas. In fact I've never used her ever.

If you feel the need to have a 2nd "melee" type to go with Mox, I'd suggest Devona over Talon for this area as Devona actually has multiple knockdown skills which will help against spell casters (who I'm guessing are the one's that are doing you in quickly). Talon's skills are kinda blah for EOTN unless you have a party that utilizes conditions to it's benefit.

Unless you have Vekk all skilled up with potent fire based skills (looks like he's holding either an air or water wand) you'd be better off taking Cynn as she's got a real potent mix of fire spells that so happen to do exceptionally well against water (ice) based enemies (what you're facing mostly here).

Same with Gwen if her skill bar is not built up, you'd be better off with Lo Sha (he'll help when you meet up with Giants with Ineptitude and Shadow of Fear). Also Herta, the earth ele, has a strong AoE attack skill in Sandstorm and the ability to cast anti melee ward that will help against giants as well as a good energy management mix of spells. The hardest part of Norhartt IMO for you isn't really the Avalanche mobs, but probably the wondering Giant mob led by the warrior boss Baglorag Grumblesnort. They are kinda relentless and will chase you down if you get anywhere near them and for poorly built parties they'll wipe you out over and over again.

Use no more than 3 heroes (again assuming they don't have a lot of skills). Only benefit then is really to just allow you to flag them separately so they can possibly take one for the team instead of your more powerful henchmen which will be balled up more likely.

Ashanor

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Feb 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dar Drakor View Post
If you have the cash, I would recommend buying the skill packs from GW store. It'll make all of this a whole lot easier. Reason you are dying is probably because your heroes have partial and/or poor skill bars.

As has been said, if you're heroes skills are weak you'd almost be better off just using henchmen. The main benefit of heroes is that you can flag the top 3 separately (which helps against AoE damage heavy foes) but if they can't do much of anything you'd be better off with the clustering with all henchmen.

Based on the pic, you are looking at 2 separate mobs. You're not charging both of them at once are you? That's pretty much an automatic suicide for a poorly skilled and equipped party.

Also your choice of henchmen may not be the best. Eve doesn't summon minions and most of her damage is focused on single enemies. IMO kinda useless for most areas. In fact I've never used her ever.

If you feel the need to have a 2nd "melee" type to go with Mox, I'd suggest Devona over Talon for this area as Devona actually has multiple knockdown skills which will help against spell casters (who I'm guessing are the one's that are doing you in quickly). Talon's skills are kinda blah for EOTN unless you have a party that utilizes conditions to it's benefit.

Unless you have Vekk all skilled up with potent fire based skills (looks like he's holding either an air or water wand) you'd be better off taking Cynn as she's got a real potent mix of fire spells that so happen to do exceptionally well against water (ice) based enemies (what you're facing mostly here).

Same with Gwen if her skill bar is not built up, you'd be better off with Lo Sha (he'll help when you meet up with Giants with Ineptitude and Shadow of Fear). Also Herta, the earth ele, has a strong AoE attack skill in Sandstorm and the ability to cast anti melee ward that will help against giants as well as a good energy management mix of spells. The hardest part of Norhartt IMO for you isn't really the Avalanche mobs, but probably the wondering Giant mob led by the warrior boss Baglorag Grumblesnort. They are kinda relentless and will chase you down if you get anywhere near them and for poorly built parties they'll wipe you out over and over again.

Use no more than 3 heroes (again assuming they don't have a lot of skills). Only benefit then is really to just allow you to flag them separately so they can possibly take one for the team instead of your more powerful henchmen which will be balled up more likely. Hey, thanks.

So this is what I switched to and it seems to be going a lot better. Was able to take out the groups with minimal deaths and didn't haven't had any other problems yet.

http://imageshack.us/f/824/gw012c.jpg/

I had some PvP faction on my account from years ago so I used it to buy some monk skills for the two monks (from a monk build on pvx). Seems to help a ton. Just need to pick up some elites for them. Thanks again for the help.

Which Henchmen would you suggest I replace Eve with by the way? Or do you think I should throw MOX back in there in place of Eve? If so do you have any suggestions on a build for MOX? The all ranged Henchman seems pretty nice so far. lol

Icy The Mage

Icy The Mage

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Canada

E/

I suggest you keep running heroes over henchmen, henchmen are not that great compared to heroes, even if you have iffy bars for them. And besides, it's nice to have all your heroes level 20 for when you might need them in the future!

Blackbirdx61

Blackbirdx61

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2011

Maryland.

Costumed Aggression. : )

R/E

I recently did pretty much the same thing, crossed over from Prophecies to Factions with my (then) Lv 16 Ranger, and Warrior; and got stomped. It takes a few trips out to get a good feel for the pace of Factions, but you will.

I find Factions requires a little more control in terms of moving up so Bad guys are at the edge of your Agg bubble, assigning initial targets. Then hitting hard in a coordinated attack. Afflicted explode when they die and its damaging, use range weapons on them as much as possible. If your fighting Jade Brotherhood they are spamming double dragon just now, so I try to pick out and take down their Mages first; once they are down the other Mobs are quite manageable.

Keep at it, the Brotherhood will be paying for your Armor Upgrade in a just a couple days. ; )

akelarumi

akelarumi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2009

E/

A lot of advise is already given. I agree that it's better to use skilled up heroes or henchman in EOTN. EOTN henchman are designed to that place and they have a poretty good skillbar.

The avalanches are hard and they whiped me a few times as well. I think your doing the quest for the ebon vanguard (to get to long eyes ledge). looking at your picture you can hug the right hand wll and slip past those avalanches.

Dar Drakor

Dar Drakor

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2008

Ancient Dragon Disciples [ADD]

N/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashanor View Post
Hey, thanks.

So this is what I switched to and it seems to be going a lot better. Was able to take out the groups with minimal deaths and didn't haven't had any other problems yet.

http://imageshack.us/f/824/gw012c.jpg/

I had some PvP faction on my account from years ago so I used it to buy some monk skills for the two monks (from a monk build on pvx). Seems to help a ton. Just need to pick up some elites for them. Thanks again for the help.

Which Henchmen would you suggest I replace Eve with by the way? Or do you think I should throw MOX back in there in place of Eve? If so do you have any suggestions on a build for MOX? The all ranged Henchman seems pretty nice so far. lol I would actually add Mox back. He doesn't have a full default skill bar but he can hit multiple targets at once and, more importantly tank a little bit.

Ogden is ok but I would take Talkhora out and put Mehnlo the healer back in. The secret of leveling up your less than level 20 heroes isnt necessarily to bring them with you when you are adventuring but rather just making sure you add them to your party when you go to receive reward for a mission/quest. It takes a bit longer but it's an easy way to add 1000xp, 2000xp, 5000xp or whever to those characters without ever using them until they are level 20.

But if you seem to be doing fine with Talkhora in the party then that's good enough. She'll just level up faster.

As far as replacing Eve goes? I would add Devona especially if you don't add Mox. Someone to draw some of the enemy fire would help, basically a meat sheild. Devona's got a lot of knockdown skills that will help minimize enemy casters a little and none shall pass will help prevent enemy melees from getting to your more squishy spell casters.

But play around with it. Ultimately the goal is to use heroes (GW allows you a full hero party) and a souped up hero is way better than any corresponding henchmen. To do so you'll need skills (elite skills in particular).

There are a lot of potent heroe builds that you can look up here:
http://www.gwpvx.com/PvX_wiki

You can get a good idea of which skills you should be looking to acquire based on what you think you best want to play and the heroes you have.

As far as getting heroes go, there are obviously certain heroes that are used a whole lot more more others and that are viewed as critical for a good number of the major team builds. So finding where each are and getting them unlocked would probably also be something you'd want to do.

In EOTN key heroes are: a) Gwen, who you already have, b) Xandra (a Rit) extremely easy or extremely difficult to get depending on how you are able to work the Norn Fighting Tournament and c) Livia (a Nec) who will join your party just by going through the Tarnished Coast missions.

In Nightfall key heroes are: a) Master of Whispers (a Nec), b) Olias (a Nec), c) Razah (a Rit) -- not available until after completing nightfall (and the quest to get him can be a pain if you aren't prepared for it) and, IMO d) Norgu (a Mes) as he gives you a 2nd Mes hero to work with (a lot of 2 Mes team builds right now).

Doesn't mean the rest of the heroes are not useful but most of the one's that you'll get quickly and easily are pretty much all you need (i.e. Ogden, Vekk, Jora, Dunkorro).

Experiment and have fun.

Skyy High

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

This is why I hate all those "new player guides" that tell people to get to EotN first. It is just too damn hard compared to the rest of the game.