Make Zei Ri available after NM WoC

I am having tremendous difficulty with WoC, but I don't want it changed. Zei Ri is a Rit hero. Unless he was a 4th mesmer (4th because I think most have put Razah as one) or necromancer, he's the profession most sought after for heroes. When I finally finish it, I want to feel like I accomplished something. That I have something to show off. Nothing of the sort shows that anymore, it's nice to finally have a trophy to be proud of again.

This may be the whiniest thread in recent memory. If you don't want the hero, don't put in the effort. Bellyaching on a forum just makes you sound 1. Immature 2. Lazy

I believe there is a special place in hell for whiners, crybabies, and the lazy. I swear some peoples children... OK to sum up, if everything is handed to you in the game, then calling it a game in a misnomer. The word game implies challenge. You however want to play Barbie's dress up. The "its not fair* stomps feet and pouts*" BS is about as annoying as it gets. /endrant

That's a BIG /notsigned btw

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+1 to you sir/ma'am! Thats the spirit of it! If more people looked at the rewards for challenges like this, the game would be a far better place!

Guild Wars is supposed to be a grind free game.

Max lvl characters - 3 hours
Max armor - even quicker than max lvl
Max weapons - 5 mins in a lvl 20 area, or basically free buying off someone else.
3rd rit hero - ~25 hours doing 35 quests 2x each.

Its not hard, its just painfully boring and long. People have better things to do than to C-Space for 25 hours straight for every character on their account. Again, Guild Wars is not about grind.

These heroes should really have an alternate way of unlocking them that doesn't require a huge time investment. Keiran should as well, though thankfully WiK isn't nearly as bad as WoC. At the absolute minimum to make this not completely retarded, we shouldn't have to do NM before doing HM, we should be able to just do the 35 HM quests and get both heroes.

In my opinion, there shouldn't be any rewards that are exclusive to the HM content. By this, I mean that while HM should have greater rewards than NM, there shouldn't be any tangible reward (like a hero) that can only be obtained by completing the quest line in HM. Just throw rubies and sapphires or like rewards at those who enjoy the "challenge" presented by WoC HM.

Again,no1 forces you to have all heroes on all chars. And since this is a new content I really don't see what other things you could beside rl.

Sometimes you really see the insults that fly in this community, in threads like this, and you can't believe it's the same community so incredibly nice to newbies in Q&A...
Really, sounds like Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde.

But on topic, as I already said elsewhere my opinion is this:
It's not whining, it's not a matter of things handled on silver plate, just a matter of basic principles of this game.
Also, if we wanna talk about effort, it takes almost less time to get all of the heroes of nightfall (13, right?) than this single one,,,just sayin'.

No one forces you to have max armor. What is your point again?

Nice analogy, only that it's completely wrong. You don't need the rit hero to play the game, it's a reward for the people that want it and want to do the effort to get it.

The analogy is flawed because no one is whining at the moment that getting max armor is too difficult.

I sorta feel that ppl saying that it's a balanced reward have no intentions to gain the new rit hero on that many characters. Atm I am staring down the barrel of 630 quests (already completed 140), which will take a completely disproportionate amount of time compared to anything else in game aside from title grind.

This. An extra rit hero is pretty useful in the current PvE metagame, and I'd love to have it on all my 10 characters. Do I have the time or the patience to do the entire WoC content(which sucks hard btw) TWENTY times just for the hero? No way.

As the quoted post said, HM rewards should be higher than NM ones, but not exclusive to it. Doing the WoC crap ten times on NM is a much more attractive idea.

/signed

I thought ppl complained about the meta cookie cutter builds?


Also I'm pretty sure that one extra rit wouldn't make you faceroll anything faster than without it.

And lol at the max armor post.

Another point to add is that not everyone has all three chapters with EotN on their account. If you don't have NF and EotN on the same account (or even worse, only have Factions), having Zei Ri will be a significant addition to your playing options.

In NF, there are points in the storyline where you can choose between two hero options (Margrid or Whispers, and Goren or Norgu). Maybe they could have used the same mechanic for the WoC end reward (choose which hero you would like)? The other hero would then have been the reward for completing the HM chain (for the completionists out there).

Absolutely not. Laziness should not be rewarded

I think some quest are ridiculous difficult, especially those with a party size restriction, and mobs should be toned down a LITTLE on those cases (and only those).
I'm actually finding the difficulty quite interesting and it's the only thing that is making me think about finally putting some runes on my heroes (so far i didn't see the need to).

Absolutely not signed, no one is forcing you to have another rit hero, and I agree completely that if the heroes were switched around, no one would care. There is no reason you absolutely need another rit hero, but if you want one, TRY FOR IT.

Easiest way would just be to let people follow the HM line from the start, no need to waste time on the NM versions that way. Then they can choose which hero they want and aren't forced to do the irrelevant stuff.

WoC HM currently requires all the NM quests as a prerequisite, which is just bad design. I'd like to see that NM prerequisite dropped, but keep Zei Ri as a HM unlock. Players should be able to play WoC in the difficulty they choose, not be forced to slog through double the number of quests if HM is desired.

No one is complaining about the time it takes to get Miku, and if we're looking at time taken to get a reward as the additional time it takes to get there from the previous award, then Miku and Zei Ri take roughly the same amount of time. If you don't like that definition, well, then you have to count all of Nightfall as the time it takes to get Razah, and I think that that's significantly longer than WoC.

Even better example: you have to play through all of WiK and HotN in order to get Keiran. That took a long time too, but no one cared because he's a paragon...the issue here really is a) Zei Ri is desirable so people care if they can't get him, and b) you can only get him by doing difficult content, not necessarily long content. It's not the grind that's the problem, it's the difficulty. In other words: don't bring up "grind" in this discussion.

I do think that making HM quests independent of NM completion is a good idea.

I also like this post from Widowmaker:

So you will support Razah require 4 gems?

I think it's not fair compare to how you get other heroes.

Take 4-5 hours to finish WoC is lazy? What's wrong with you?

Anet is not going to change it, suck it up.
And they shouldn't.
Everything in this game got dumbed down because of all the crying people that could not c-space something.
Finally there is this one thing that has a bit of meaning, to show you completed some challenging content..
And you want to dumb it down?
Leave Zei Ri alone, the guy is very comfortable with HM.

This is a good idea too.