7H for a melee player

UA is only good if you're planning on dying. C'mon how many times are people going to repeat this false bullshit statement?

If you have so much defence nobody ever dies, you have too much in the first place. Now and then, players or heroes die. You have bad luck, you get spiked, ST prot fails at shelter or minions get stolen.

Shit happens. And when it does, having UA is not an all bad idea. Not to mention that in a team with a single melee player you should have 1 smiter anyhow for the melee damage buffs along with the damage you get from usual smiting skills such as smite hex / condition and reversal of damage. And a UA + Smite adds almost the same amount of damage as a RoJ smite does unless you're balling up every single group.

C'mon how many times are people going to repeat this false bullshit statement? The best part about UA is the instant 100% rez. If that description wasn't in there, I highly doubt anyone would use that skill. Unless someone is dying, you are only making use of less than 50% of that skill's potential. In fact, if no one dies, you could also say that you are just running a gimped skill on the bar. That's why we say that the quality of that skill increases as the % chance of people dying in your party increases.

The best part about UA is the instant 100% rez. If that description wasn't in there, I highly doubt anyone would use that skill. Unless someone is dying, you are only making use of less than 50% of that skill's potential. In fact, if no one dies, you could also say that you are just running a gimped skill on the bar. That's why we say that the quality of that skill increases as the % chance of people dying in your party increases. WTF are you on about? "If that description wasn't in there nobody would use the skill?" Are you saying "If UA wasn't a rez nobody would use it!"?

Cause if you are, that's the biggest bullshit argument I've heard in weeks. And I heard some pretty bad ones last Monday. Of course nobody would use UA if it wasn't a rez, they'd use HB or WoH instead if they needed heals and RoJ if they needed damage and there wouldnt be any viable ressurection elites. Damn right they wouldn't use it.

But it IS a rezz, so lets stick with reality and not try to twist things around to make a point. Fact is a smiter with UA can retain a 85-90% effectiveness compared to a smiter with RoJ or Signet of Judgement and there's no other viable elites. Making it a very good support character and damage dealer just because of that alone.

The same goes for a healer with UA if you choose to use that, it delivers powerful healing without the use of an elite and there's not a lot of other viable skills to mix in there.

And yeah, the big selling point of UA is that you ressurect at 100%. Not 100% health though, that's not really a big deal. But 100% energy is, as especially heroes tend to give a very poor performance if ressurected with too little energy. It causes them to missuse a lot of skills and remain highly inefficient for the rest of the battle.

And in the end, if you have so much healing and prot nobody ever dies. You have waaaay too much.

When judging UA, you have to judge what you gain up against what you loose out on when dropping another elite. And very often you will experience that the loss is not a very big deal.

What zone would that be lol? Speaking HM i can't think of any. Not where there is absolutely no chance you wont be stuck between two groups and have someone get spiked to death. How often do you get stuck between 2 groups and someone gets spiked to death? If you're good at pulling, I can't really think of a situation where this would happen. Otherwise... well you should have enough heal/prot that no one dies when just facing one group at a time.

The only places where I can really justify bringing UA is in WoC HM or DoA (or another exceedingly difficult area). Everywhere else... well people shouldn't be dying, at all. If they are, then there is something wrong with the team's defenses. I'd rather just bring a mediocre damage elite like RoJ on a smite bar, and if a dedicated heal/prot monk is being used, I'd rather just take a skill that is better at keeping the party alive.

I'll have to disagree with you. UA is an ability you should only take when you can expect a few deaths (doing quests, vanqs and such at your leisure) but from my personal experience it's better to dedicate the elite slot for something that does a better job at preventing deaths when you're doing serious business PvE. My personal fave is WoH (I cleared DoA HM without cons/sy with a WoH/ST backline, WoH is strong), but Healing Burst isn't a bad alternative, with high DF you don't need so many party heals either. Ah, well I was referring more to the fact that I would only use UA if I were expecting deaths. In normal vqs, dungeons, missions, etc., my party members dont really ever die, so I dont even bother to bring the safety blanket. I do agree with you that WoH is a very good elite, and I would rather have one of those on a dedicated healer than any other elite (except Hburst in areas where the AoE heal is worth it).

My comments on UA were more in regards to smite bars.

Ah, well I was referring more to the fact that I would only use UA if I were expecting deaths. In normal vqs, dungeons, missions, etc., my party members dont really ever die, so I dont even bother to bring the safety blanket. I do agree with you that WoH is a very good elite, and I would rather have one of those on a dedicated healer than any other elite (except Hburst in areas where the AoE heal is worth it).

My comments on UA were more in regards to smite bars. We talked about this before. Any respectable general team build should have res which means they "expect deaths". If you don't "expect deaths" then there no point bringing a res.

In the 2 out of 3 scenarios that you mentioned above, it may not matter much even if you don't bring a res but on missions that would fail upon a wipe then bringing a res is worth while. If the mission is so simple then it doesn't matter what you put into that elite slot. If it is diffcult and fails-upon-wipe then I rather bring a res in case I make a mistake, so I can run through the mission as fast as possible instead of playing it safe all the time.

UA is arguably the best res in the game and monks already have enough good non-elite heals/prots. I don't see it as a big deal even using it on a smite bar. Balancing safety with the best speed is the deal in the hardest areas of the game. Just considering safety alone is not good enough. An overly-defensive build is not desirable as it is obviously safe but slow.

We talked about this before. Any respectable general team build should have res which means they "expect deaths". If you don't "expect deaths" then there no point bringing a res. My point is that outside of the elite areas, you shouldn't expect deaths. If you do, then your team has problems with its defensive capabilities.

Look at EFGJack's post above. UA is one of those skills that you should only bring when you expect deaths. When I'm doing a random VQ or dungeon and I avoid overaggro with simple longbow pulling, deaths do not occur. Therefore, having UA on my smite's bar would be a complete waste of a skill slot since it would never see use. As I have mentioned before, the only time that I could justify using UA is if I expected deaths, and the only time that I would expect deaths is when I'm doing elite areas.

My point is that outside of the elite areas, you shouldn't expect deaths. If you do, then your team has problems with its defensive capabilities.

Look at EFGJack's post above. UA is one of those skills that you should only bring when you expect deaths. When I'm doing a random VQ or dungeon and I avoid overaggro with simple longbow pulling, deaths do not occur. Therefore, having UA on my smite's bar would be a complete waste of a skill slot since it would never see use. As I have mentioned before, the only time that I could justify using UA is if I expected deaths, and the only time that I would expect deaths is when I'm doing elite areas. If you look at any of the rated 'Great' generic heroes team build in pvx, they all have a res in them and they are not ONLY meant for elite areas obviously.

Now having said that, if you play more defensively, you can still replace the res with another skill and accomplish your missions. Then the next question becomes, would you have accomplished your missions FASTER, if you have played less defensively? Maybe you would or maybe you won't.

In the end, it is a balance between risking a wipe and having zero deaths at all. Where that balance is can be very personal as it depends on your playstyle.

But as for a generic heroes team build for public consumption, I think it should include a res then people can see that if they want to bring a res this is how you can do it. And as far as what the best or one of the best hero res in the game is, one can argue, that it is UA, considering the alternative hero resses.

A good res reduces the "price of death" so much so that it gives you sufficient leeway to play more aggressively which in many situations, depending on the area and your build, implies a faster success for your mission/quest.

I'm perfectly happy to take a few deaths with ever more offensive teambuilds, utilizing UA to replace an entire defensive character. I guess it all comes down to a difference in opinion then on what makes a good team build...

it's definitely a playstyle difference. To me, a successful run is one where I have little no no deaths and no wipe. I know others judge success based on time of completion which is fine also. There's a big difference between wiping and having a death now and then though.

There's a big difference between wiping and having a death now and then though. This is true. Funny thing is that when I wipe, it's usually because they killed off my characters with the rez and I have to continue down two party members. I really think the enemy takes priority on your characters that have a rez skill on their bar.

This is true. Funny thing is that when I wipe, it's usually because they killed off my characters with the rez and I have to continue down two party members. I really think the enemy takes priority on your characters that have a rez skill on their bar. THIS! Fck yeah I've noticed this. And this is perhaps the biggest downside to bringing UA there is! I've often been completely shocked by how often my UA is targetted over other characters when I choose to bring it.

My personal fave is WoH (I cleared DoA HM without cons/sy with a WoH/ST backline, WoH is strong), but Healing Burst isn't a bad alternative, with high DF you don't need so many party heals either. Dumb question: Whats ST? Soul Twist?

Besides being an old player sometimes I'm away for a time and become kinda confused with all anachronisms of the meta.