Zei Ri aftermath

agrios

agrios

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

South America

Naked Stalkers of America[Nude]

W/

Now that I finally got tru WoC HM some questions arise:

1) What to do with 3 Rits? Is this setup worthwhile or should I turn Razah into another class ? (For example, a 3rd Mez to roll PVE with Psychic Instability/Energy Surge + Panic + Ineptude)??

2) Is a Rit primay as good as a Necro Healer with the Xinrae Weapon build? I tried this yesterday and found the results were good, and Zei Ri didnt seem to run out of energy - energy management goes with "Energetic was Lee Sa". So far I could say "yes" but I'd like to hear from you more experienced players.

Jeydra

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

At the moment this is what it looks like to me -

Having a ST in addition to SoS and SoGM can be useful in some select areas. Otherwise using the third Rit is typically inferior.

Having a third Mesmer is useful in some areas as well. A third Domination Mesmer overlaps a fair bit with having two other Domination Mesmers, Illusion Mesmers are typically unnecessary. There're a few more options out there like Extend Conditions and Panic and Psychic Instability but I find they're typically worse than bringing more straight damage ... but a third Mesmer has its uses in some areas.

Beyond that, there's not much difference.

If you're making a healer, know what you're aiming for. If all you want is pure healing, a N/Rt is probably unbeatable. It's not just running out of energy; you also want the hero to be able to cast all the time (Lee Sa takes 2s to cast, and it overlaps Kaolai, which is one of the most powerful skills out there - Necro energy management is almost entirely passive). You can also run some strong heals with a Necro that you can't with Rit i.e. Spirit Transfer.

If you want more than pure healing, then consider other templates. The N/Rt can't provide hex removal, and it can't provide "Fall Back!" or UA's instant res either. It can't maintain Strength of Honour the way a Smiter can, and so on. Know what you want, and choose your builds accordingly.

Relyk

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2008

W/

Switch to a Mesmer. sos+sogm+st is a very defensive setup, so there aren't many places where it would be suitable. Any other builds are just a gimmicky setup, except perhaps a resto rit lord. You'd probably use it in high damage areas, especially places you aren't familiar with such as DoA (Foundry and Veil), Urgoz, UW, and possibly 3-man areas like WoC content. In 3 man areas, you're better off with more offense or MM, but playing it safe never hurts.

It's a temporary setup at best, you should find that having 3 rits becomes unnecessary for most situations and go for more damage instead.

Sagittario

Sagittario

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2010

Czech Republic

The Dragonfly Effect [Phi]

Rt/

There's a big number of possibilities, SoGM low-energy spirits, RL low-energy spirits, ST high-energy spirits, ST prot, SoS, Wanderlust.
They can resto well, but it's waste because necros can handle healing as good as rits, but only rits can handle spirits well.

As for me, on rit I use Razah as mes and on mes I use him as rit.

InStars

InStars

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2011

Latvia

Tempus Omnia Revelat [TOR]

E/A

I wonder how heroes use Splinter barrage or DWG nowadays...

Has their AI improved after these updates?

Sagittario

Sagittario

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2010

Czech Republic

The Dragonfly Effect [Phi]

Rt/

Quote:
Originally Posted by InStars View Post
I wonder how heroes use Splinter barrage or DWG nowadays...

Has their AI improved after these updates? They use splinter awesomely on every ally/party member with psychical weapon.

agrios

agrios

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

South America

Naked Stalkers of America[Nude]

W/

So...a third Rit is basically useless and I should turn Razah into a Mez? It looks like it.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

I would say go for the third mesmer over the third rit. You can't go wrong with more dom mesmer goodness.

If you want to go with the third rit as a healer instead of a ST, for example you are already bringing a N/Mo MM with PS, an alternative is to make him a Wanderlust+Earthbind restore. Yes it is a little gimmicky and that added defense is not needed in most areas, but it works great and has some synergy with the other 2 rits.

Cursed Cobain

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Feb 2012

Would having a SoS, ST and SoGM be worth it if I bring a 16 command para hero with anthem envy. Or would it be better if i replace those with other dps?

WarcryOfTruth

WarcryOfTruth

Site Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2009

Atlanta

[LIFE]

P/

I have him on my Paragon, with which i use 3 paragons, an Orders, and two spirit spammers with Splinter Weapon. (Razah is set as Mesmer, for a different team build, so its why I don't use him). It works well, my damage is slightly lower than I'd like it to be, but I can't complain, no one dies

hunter

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth
View Post
I have him on my Paragon, with which i use 3 paragons, an Orders, and two spirit spammers with Splinter Weapon. (Razah is set as Mesmer, for a different team build, so its why I don't use him). It works well, my damage is slightly lower than I'd like it to be, but I can't complain, no one dies Untill paras are changed somehow, i would say having more than 1 is a liability. 1 para is all you need for any useful para skills you might want tbh. ANd that double splinter might be overkill. You are better off with an offensive communing rit instead of the second channeling.

The main problem with paras i find is the lack of hard dmg reduction outside of TINTF so even though you seem to be stacking on those nice armor buffs ( SY in combination with stand your ground) all it takes is 1 pack is ether beasts and your party goes poof. This is mainly because unless you wanna go ultra defensive on a 3 paragon party, you usually forego shelter, which is your main defense vs ether beasts
- yaya you can micro your heroes and spread em out but its a pain in the ass in the long run and different 7 hero comps completely forego the need to micro and spread heroes around

So basically, its like a catch 22, add in a ST defensive rit to survive armor ignoring dmg but ur build becomes overkill vs other non armor ignoring dmg. Don't add this ST, and you might as well skip some areas in Elona and prepare to have a miserable time...

(In before some smartass comes in telling me that you can micro and get stuff done with a full paragon party)

Morte66

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2008

UK

LF slightly hardcore UK/euro guild

For a heal and prot character, I'm partial to this Rt/Mo build:

12+1+3 Restoration, 10+1 Soul Twisting, 8 Protection Prayers
Spirit Channeling, Life, Protective Was Kaolai, Mend Body And Soul, Spirit Light, and 3 from Aegis, Shield of Absorption, Protetctive Spirit or Remove Hex to suit the team.

Solid healing, more reliable energy than a necro (it works with nothing dying), strong condition removal (assuming you have spirits elsewhere), hex removal for physicals, and monk prots beat weapon spells any day. I think it's the best single character heal and prot backline I've used. The issue with it is that I might prefer a pair of part-timers, so they can deal damage when not healing.

Jk Arrow

Jk Arrow

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2008

WI

Dark Phoenix Risin [DPR]

R/

I don't seem to find a 3rd Rit all that useful. After experimenting on my rit, Razah became a 3rd mesmer. And also for that reason, I haven't been motivated to do WoC in HM on any toon.

I also tend to prefer n/rt healer over rt/ healer. But to be fair, I typically don't run pure healer builds and run hybrids instead.

JK

Gabs88

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2011

Since I have 8 mercs my team setups might be a little different from many others here. But I do currently keep 4 mesmers, 3 ritualists and 1 necro. And when I play melee I bring a monk too.

The team setups I use are:

Player char: AP caller / caster
Panic
Esurge
Esurge
SB-Resto
SoS
SoGm
AoTL/ST depending on zone.


Player char: Melee
Panic
Esurge / Ineptitude / RoJ
SB-Resto
SoS
SoGM
AoTL/ST depending on zone.
RoJ / UA Smite

Anyhow, since I have the choice of bringing both multiple mesmers and multiple ritualists I don't really have to choose either or. But what I can say is that there are very few zones where the ST is picked over AoTL.

The SB-Resto (Shared Burden|Wandering Eye|Signet of Clumsiness|Accumulated Pain|Hex Eater Signet|Mend Body and Soul|Spirit Light|FoMF or Ress Sig) is definitely a very strong contender to the traditional N/Rt. I only bring 2 heals on this character + 2 heals on SoS + 3 Prot skills on MM as my entire backline when playing casters and IMO, that's more then enough. When playing a physical I add in a smiter or two and thats it. So if I had to restrain myself to 3 mesmers I'd bring either this or an esurge mesmer.

Pyrthas

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

Me/

Just to add my 2 cents, after getting Zei Ri on my mesmer, I am using four mesmers (including me), partly just because I like mesmers, but it's also good damage and great disruption. The full team is very basic.

panic/dom/overpowered pve skills (me)
2x esurge w/fallback
1x esurge w/fallback, never surrender, and stand your ground (and guilt instead of mistrust)
sos resto
sogm
aotl prot
curses resto

Because I'm usually too lazy to change bars around for specific content, and I'm just vqing right now, I leave pain of disenchantment and enfeebling blood on the n/rt all the time. It's all more defense than is necessary, but things die fast enough, and I get to play very sloppy without any real worry, which lets me watch movies while vqing.

I've thought about going illusion instead on the last esurge, maybe with shared burden or something, but I like esurge/unnatural signet spam too much, and melee isn't really a problem. I'm not sure all the shouts are necessary, but I'm too lazy to test it.

I'm not sure I'd have room to fit a fifth mesmer in, though, even if I had mercs.

Gabs88

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2011

Posted a Shared Burden-Resto build earlier in the thread, with 4 mesmers it's a viable option. IMO it has both better offence and defence then N/Rt resto. Not as insane energy management but buildt around coping with that.

Pyrthas

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

Me/

I saw your post and thought about trying it, but haven't actually given it a shot yet. It would let me replace the n/rt with an ele or something, I guess. (Mesmer #5 if I had mercs? Maybe! Edit: Actually, that would be kind of cute, and it's almost tempting...) I'm really not crazy about losing pwk, though. Life is good, too. Strong party heals let me be sloppy and not worry about flagging and microing.

Why no arcane conundrum, though? Seems like solid energy management to me.

Gabs88

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2011

Mesmer 3 on some physical builds and 4 on caster builds IMO. Still want AOTL / SoGM / SoS for the majority of all zones IMO.

Pyrthas

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

Me/

I meant #5 counting me on a mesmer. (I do agree that minions and spirits are strong in most places.)