Zei Ri aftermath
agrios
Now that I finally got tru WoC HM some questions arise:
1) What to do with 3 Rits? Is this setup worthwhile or should I turn Razah into another class ? (For example, a 3rd Mez to roll PVE with Psychic Instability/Energy Surge + Panic + Ineptude)??
2) Is a Rit primay as good as a Necro Healer with the Xinrae Weapon build? I tried this yesterday and found the results were good, and Zei Ri didnt seem to run out of energy - energy management goes with "Energetic was Lee Sa". So far I could say "yes" but I'd like to hear from you more experienced players.
1) What to do with 3 Rits? Is this setup worthwhile or should I turn Razah into another class ? (For example, a 3rd Mez to roll PVE with Psychic Instability/Energy Surge + Panic + Ineptude)??
2) Is a Rit primay as good as a Necro Healer with the Xinrae Weapon build? I tried this yesterday and found the results were good, and Zei Ri didnt seem to run out of energy - energy management goes with "Energetic was Lee Sa". So far I could say "yes" but I'd like to hear from you more experienced players.
Jeydra
At the moment this is what it looks like to me -
Having a ST in addition to SoS and SoGM can be useful in some select areas. Otherwise using the third Rit is typically inferior.
Having a third Mesmer is useful in some areas as well. A third Domination Mesmer overlaps a fair bit with having two other Domination Mesmers, Illusion Mesmers are typically unnecessary. There're a few more options out there like Extend Conditions and Panic and Psychic Instability but I find they're typically worse than bringing more straight damage ... but a third Mesmer has its uses in some areas.
Beyond that, there's not much difference.
If you're making a healer, know what you're aiming for. If all you want is pure healing, a N/Rt is probably unbeatable. It's not just running out of energy; you also want the hero to be able to cast all the time (Lee Sa takes 2s to cast, and it overlaps Kaolai, which is one of the most powerful skills out there - Necro energy management is almost entirely passive). You can also run some strong heals with a Necro that you can't with Rit i.e. Spirit Transfer.
If you want more than pure healing, then consider other templates. The N/Rt can't provide hex removal, and it can't provide "Fall Back!" or UA's instant res either. It can't maintain Strength of Honour the way a Smiter can, and so on. Know what you want, and choose your builds accordingly.
Having a ST in addition to SoS and SoGM can be useful in some select areas. Otherwise using the third Rit is typically inferior.
Having a third Mesmer is useful in some areas as well. A third Domination Mesmer overlaps a fair bit with having two other Domination Mesmers, Illusion Mesmers are typically unnecessary. There're a few more options out there like Extend Conditions and Panic and Psychic Instability but I find they're typically worse than bringing more straight damage ... but a third Mesmer has its uses in some areas.
Beyond that, there's not much difference.
If you're making a healer, know what you're aiming for. If all you want is pure healing, a N/Rt is probably unbeatable. It's not just running out of energy; you also want the hero to be able to cast all the time (Lee Sa takes 2s to cast, and it overlaps Kaolai, which is one of the most powerful skills out there - Necro energy management is almost entirely passive). You can also run some strong heals with a Necro that you can't with Rit i.e. Spirit Transfer.
If you want more than pure healing, then consider other templates. The N/Rt can't provide hex removal, and it can't provide "Fall Back!" or UA's instant res either. It can't maintain Strength of Honour the way a Smiter can, and so on. Know what you want, and choose your builds accordingly.
Relyk
Switch to a Mesmer. sos+sogm+st is a very defensive setup, so there aren't many places where it would be suitable. Any other builds are just a gimmicky setup, except perhaps a resto rit lord. You'd probably use it in high damage areas, especially places you aren't familiar with such as DoA (Foundry and Veil), Urgoz, UW, and possibly 3-man areas like WoC content. In 3 man areas, you're better off with more offense or MM, but playing it safe never hurts.
It's a temporary setup at best, you should find that having 3 rits becomes unnecessary for most situations and go for more damage instead.
It's a temporary setup at best, you should find that having 3 rits becomes unnecessary for most situations and go for more damage instead.
Sagittario
There's a big number of possibilities, SoGM low-energy spirits, RL low-energy spirits, ST high-energy spirits, ST prot, SoS, Wanderlust.
They can resto well, but it's waste because necros can handle healing as good as rits, but only rits can handle spirits well.
As for me, on rit I use Razah as mes and on mes I use him as rit.
They can resto well, but it's waste because necros can handle healing as good as rits, but only rits can handle spirits well.
As for me, on rit I use Razah as mes and on mes I use him as rit.
InStars
I wonder how heroes use Splinter barrage or DWG nowadays...
Has their AI improved after these updates?
Has their AI improved after these updates?
Sagittario
agrios
So...a third Rit is basically useless and I should turn Razah into a Mez? It looks like it.
Daesu
I would say go for the third mesmer over the third rit. You can't go wrong with more dom mesmer goodness.
If you want to go with the third rit as a healer instead of a ST, for example you are already bringing a N/Mo MM with PS, an alternative is to make him a Wanderlust+Earthbind restore. Yes it is a little gimmicky and that added defense is not needed in most areas, but it works great and has some synergy with the other 2 rits.
If you want to go with the third rit as a healer instead of a ST, for example you are already bringing a N/Mo MM with PS, an alternative is to make him a Wanderlust+Earthbind restore. Yes it is a little gimmicky and that added defense is not needed in most areas, but it works great and has some synergy with the other 2 rits.
Cursed Cobain
Would having a SoS, ST and SoGM be worth it if I bring a 16 command para hero with anthem envy. Or would it be better if i replace those with other dps?
WarcryOfTruth
I have him on my Paragon, with which i use 3 paragons, an Orders, and two spirit spammers with Splinter Weapon. (Razah is set as Mesmer, for a different team build, so its why I don't use him). It works well, my damage is slightly lower than I'd like it to be, but I can't complain, no one dies
Daesu
Morte66
For a heal and prot character, I'm partial to this Rt/Mo build:
12+1+3 Restoration, 10+1 Soul Twisting, 8 Protection Prayers
Spirit Channeling, Life, Protective Was Kaolai, Mend Body And Soul, Spirit Light, and 3 from Aegis, Shield of Absorption, Protetctive Spirit or Remove Hex to suit the team.
Solid healing, more reliable energy than a necro (it works with nothing dying), strong condition removal (assuming you have spirits elsewhere), hex removal for physicals, and monk prots beat weapon spells any day. I think it's the best single character heal and prot backline I've used. The issue with it is that I might prefer a pair of part-timers, so they can deal damage when not healing.
12+1+3 Restoration, 10+1 Soul Twisting, 8 Protection Prayers
Spirit Channeling, Life, Protective Was Kaolai, Mend Body And Soul, Spirit Light, and 3 from Aegis, Shield of Absorption, Protetctive Spirit or Remove Hex to suit the team.
Solid healing, more reliable energy than a necro (it works with nothing dying), strong condition removal (assuming you have spirits elsewhere), hex removal for physicals, and monk prots beat weapon spells any day. I think it's the best single character heal and prot backline I've used. The issue with it is that I might prefer a pair of part-timers, so they can deal damage when not healing.
Jk Arrow
I don't seem to find a 3rd Rit all that useful. After experimenting on my rit, Razah became a 3rd mesmer. And also for that reason, I haven't been motivated to do WoC in HM on any toon.
I also tend to prefer n/rt healer over rt/ healer. But to be fair, I typically don't run pure healer builds and run hybrids instead.
JK
I also tend to prefer n/rt healer over rt/ healer. But to be fair, I typically don't run pure healer builds and run hybrids instead.
JK
Gabs88
Since I have 8 mercs my team setups might be a little different from many others here. But I do currently keep 4 mesmers, 3 ritualists and 1 necro. And when I play melee I bring a monk too.
The team setups I use are:
Player char: AP caller / caster
Panic
Esurge
Esurge
SB-Resto
SoS
SoGm
AoTL/ST depending on zone.
Player char: Melee
Panic
Esurge / Ineptitude / RoJ
SB-Resto
SoS
SoGM
AoTL/ST depending on zone.
RoJ / UA Smite
Anyhow, since I have the choice of bringing both multiple mesmers and multiple ritualists I don't really have to choose either or. But what I can say is that there are very few zones where the ST is picked over AoTL.
The SB-Resto (Shared Burden|Wandering Eye|Signet of Clumsiness|Accumulated Pain|Hex Eater Signet|Mend Body and Soul|Spirit Light|FoMF or Ress Sig) is definitely a very strong contender to the traditional N/Rt. I only bring 2 heals on this character + 2 heals on SoS + 3 Prot skills on MM as my entire backline when playing casters and IMO, that's more then enough. When playing a physical I add in a smiter or two and thats it. So if I had to restrain myself to 3 mesmers I'd bring either this or an esurge mesmer.
The team setups I use are:
Player char: AP caller / caster
Panic
Esurge
Esurge
SB-Resto
SoS
SoGm
AoTL/ST depending on zone.
Player char: Melee
Panic
Esurge / Ineptitude / RoJ
SB-Resto
SoS
SoGM
AoTL/ST depending on zone.
RoJ / UA Smite
Anyhow, since I have the choice of bringing both multiple mesmers and multiple ritualists I don't really have to choose either or. But what I can say is that there are very few zones where the ST is picked over AoTL.
The SB-Resto (Shared Burden|Wandering Eye|Signet of Clumsiness|Accumulated Pain|Hex Eater Signet|Mend Body and Soul|Spirit Light|FoMF or Ress Sig) is definitely a very strong contender to the traditional N/Rt. I only bring 2 heals on this character + 2 heals on SoS + 3 Prot skills on MM as my entire backline when playing casters and IMO, that's more then enough. When playing a physical I add in a smiter or two and thats it. So if I had to restrain myself to 3 mesmers I'd bring either this or an esurge mesmer.
hunter
Gabs88
Pyrthas
Just to add my 2 cents, after getting Zei Ri on my mesmer, I am using four mesmers (including me), partly just because I like mesmers, but it's also good damage and great disruption. The full team is very basic.
panic/dom/overpowered pve skills (me)
2x esurge w/fallback
1x esurge w/fallback, never surrender, and stand your ground (and guilt instead of mistrust)
sos resto
sogm
aotl prot
curses resto
Because I'm usually too lazy to change bars around for specific content, and I'm just vqing right now, I leave pain of disenchantment and enfeebling blood on the n/rt all the time. It's all more defense than is necessary, but things die fast enough, and I get to play very sloppy without any real worry, which lets me watch movies while vqing.
I've thought about going illusion instead on the last esurge, maybe with shared burden or something, but I like esurge/unnatural signet spam too much, and melee isn't really a problem. I'm not sure all the shouts are necessary, but I'm too lazy to test it.
I'm not sure I'd have room to fit a fifth mesmer in, though, even if I had mercs.
panic/dom/overpowered pve skills (me)
2x esurge w/fallback
1x esurge w/fallback, never surrender, and stand your ground (and guilt instead of mistrust)
sos resto
sogm
aotl prot
curses resto
Because I'm usually too lazy to change bars around for specific content, and I'm just vqing right now, I leave pain of disenchantment and enfeebling blood on the n/rt all the time. It's all more defense than is necessary, but things die fast enough, and I get to play very sloppy without any real worry, which lets me watch movies while vqing.
I've thought about going illusion instead on the last esurge, maybe with shared burden or something, but I like esurge/unnatural signet spam too much, and melee isn't really a problem. I'm not sure all the shouts are necessary, but I'm too lazy to test it.
I'm not sure I'd have room to fit a fifth mesmer in, though, even if I had mercs.
Gabs88
Posted a Shared Burden-Resto build earlier in the thread, with 4 mesmers it's a viable option. IMO it has both better offence and defence then N/Rt resto. Not as insane energy management but buildt around coping with that.
Pyrthas
I saw your post and thought about trying it, but haven't actually given it a shot yet. It would let me replace the n/rt with an ele or something, I guess. (Mesmer #5 if I had mercs? Maybe! Edit: Actually, that would be kind of cute, and it's almost tempting...) I'm really not crazy about losing pwk, though. Life is good, too. Strong party heals let me be sloppy and not worry about flagging and microing.
Why no arcane conundrum, though? Seems like solid energy management to me.
Why no arcane conundrum, though? Seems like solid energy management to me.
Gabs88
Mesmer 3 on some physical builds and 4 on caster builds IMO. Still want AOTL / SoGM / SoS for the majority of all zones IMO.
Pyrthas
I meant #5 counting me on a mesmer. (I do agree that minions and spirits are strong in most places.)