Discontinuing support for older versions of Windows - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

jazilla

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Guernsey Milking Coalition[MiLk]

E/Me

17 Mar 2012 at 16:33 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

x1800 or GF7800 are both ANCIENT cards. Diablo 3 has much higher requirements and on max details those games don't differ in quality that much.

Honestly, I'd be surprised if you could run Windows 7 fluidly on those GPUs.

the people running those cards aren't running Win 7.

Mintha Syl

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2010

17 Mar 2012 at 16:40 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by JONO51

It is over 10 years old now....

10 years in which they only made win7 and only very recently...seeing as vista can't be considered at all...so age in this case doesn't show much.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

17 Mar 2012 at 17:09 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogre_jd

Here's hoping it's customer-friendly and not extremely scummy like having a monitoring program running in the background - about the only reason I can think of for dropping support for older OSes that the game already builds against. (and, if that is what ends up happening, NCSoft/ArenaNet won't be getting money from me for GW2, that's for sure, or any more purchases for GW1)

If anything, older OSes are more friendly towards monitoring software - it is just easier to hook stuff, so that is unlikely.

But I am quite interested in what those features actually are. Improved security seems like a good guess.

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

17 Mar 2012 at 17:41 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by jazilla

the people running those cards aren't running Win 7.

Frankly if in 2012 you can't run Windows 7, you shouldn't expect any AAA title to work on your PC.

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

17 Mar 2012 at 17:46 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mintha Syl

Come on, XP is not so old, like half of the population still uses it and every program still supports it...

XP has been around for more than 10 years already. I don't think you can even get free technical support for XP from Microsoft anymore as XP is in Extended Support now.

In another 2 more years XP will not be supported by Microsoft at all, meaning no more security patches, etc. This means if there are any newly discovered security holes, your computer would be open to all kinds of attacks that exploit those holes. You would be on your own.

Do Urden

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2008

Mo/

17 Mar 2012 at 19:52 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

On anything but Ultimate?

Virtual PC requires Win 7 Ultimate which makes it a lot more expensive then running a separate box with windows 98 - or multi-booting...

Running it with win 7 professional (service pack 1, 64 bit) in compatibility mode for windows xp like i do for system shock 2. But yes, you're completely right. It's cheaper to run it in a separate box or multi-boot.

eevee13

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2012

17 Mar 2012 at 22:16 - 47

I'm amazed even that many people still play GW on those old OS's. XP I can understand...but 98 and ME? O_O

Kelvin Greyheart

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2007

18 Mar 2012 at 03:01 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mintha Syl

Come on, XP is not so old, like half of the population still uses it and every program still supports it...

http://www.shatteredhorizon.com/

Quote:

MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS
Shattered Horizon requires DirectX 10 on Windows Vista or Windows 7. There is no support for Windows XP or DirectX 9.

This is but one example, and it's going to get far more common. You cannot guarantee that future titles will have dx9 support. You also sacrifice a ton of features by using xp, namely the lack of 64 bit support. No 64 bit xp does not count. It's a horror story waiting to be written if you want drivers. XP is serviceable for the moment, but even corporate environments are drifting away from it.

cosyfiep

are we there yet?

Join Date: Dec 2005

in a land far far away

guild? I am supposed to have a guild?

Rt/

18 Mar 2012 at 05:01 - 49

I had ME on my old laptop...loved the dang thing...went kicking and screaming to xp, where I will stay since I HATE vista and 7 (and yes, we have them on one laptop that my hubby uses for work--I hear such profanities when he uses it!)....have NO intentions of changing off xp (heck my laptop is still sp1!..so it wont be able to play gw2, ah shucks, since it can barely play eton anyways.--and no I wont upgrade).

(not a fan of changing things--hate it when the bank gets taken over and changes its name ---)

refer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2009

US

19 Mar 2012 at 23:44 - 50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

They have, or had, a contract - which they have now broken by dropping support for system with requirements that they originally promised to support.

It is something people will - and should - remember and take into consideration when considering buying another product. Ending their contract with non-NT users may have little consequences, ending support for XP (and Win2k) would.

i was only talking about 95, 98, me.

Voodoo Rage

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

Sacramento, CA

Geezers

R/

20 Mar 2012 at 00:58 - 51

My last PC (which my daughter still plays GW on) was originally set up with Vista but I actually rolled it back to XP and it runs like lightning comparatively. Hopefully, while not "supported" GW will continue to work on that computer.

Haggis of Doom

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2009

TGB

W/

20 Mar 2012 at 01:40 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

On anything but Ultimate?

Virtual PC requires Win 7 Ultimate which makes it a lot more expensive then running a separate box with windows 98 - or multi-booting...

I've been able to run that thing on both Vista and Win7 in compatibility mode, without any sort of Virtual PC.

Though there were a few crashes... maybe I should look into this background sky files thingy nedm mentioned.

Sirius-NZ

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

Bellevue, WA (I know ... but I moved out of NZ)

Xen of Onslaught

D/

20 Mar 2012 at 10:10 - 53

Quote:

Originally Posted by akelarumi

But on the other side of realism, I totally understand why they withdraw the support. This doesn't mean however it will stop working instantly on that date. It means when they make new builds or updates they won't test it on a windows 95 pc if it works. So a good change that if you still living underneath a rock in bikinibottom you can still play GW.

This doesn't look like the case. The versions they're phasing out are all the non-NT-kernel 32-bit versions of Windows (16-bit, i.e. 3.1 and older, obviously was never supported to start with). This most likely indicates they want to use some APIs that are only available in NT-kernel versions of Windows (NT4, 2000, XP and onwards). That would mean the game probably wouldn't even start in any of the 9x OSes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

x1800 or GF7800 are both ANCIENT cards. Diablo 3 has much higher requirements and on max details those games don't differ in quality that much.

Honestly, I'd be surprised if you could run Windows 7 fluidly on those GPUs.

I've been running Windows 7 on a laptop with an X1250 for years. Its requirements are actually fairly light (as they should be, it's an OS - not a video game).

Kunder

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2010

20 Mar 2012 at 11:53 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voodoo Rage

My last PC (which my daughter still plays GW on) was originally set up with Vista but I actually rolled it back to XP and it runs like lightning comparatively. Hopefully, while not "supported" GW will continue to work on that computer.

If you bought it with Vista pre-installed it was probably slow because all retailers load it with junkware that slows everything down.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

20 Mar 2012 at 14:48 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

I've been running Windows 7 on a laptop with an X1250 for years. Its requirements are actually fairly light (as they should be, it's an OS - not a video game).

Same here, my ultraportable 11.6" laptop runs on a low consumption Athlon L110. The GPU is an integrated X1270. Windows 7 runs just fine, even with Aero turned on.

Not sure wether dropping support constitutes a breach of contract. Software licences usually include clauses about continued support and the possible requirement of upgrades in case of additions and updates to the software.

Software is provided as-is and you're licensed to use it as long as the software house allows you to. They usually take limited or no responsibility at all if changes over time to the software break it for you.

From the GW User Agreement:

Quote:

11. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY

THE SERVICE, THE SOFTWARE, THE ACCOUNT, THE GAMES, CAMPAIGNS AND ALL OTHER SERVICES ARE PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" BASIS, PROVIDED AT YOUR OWN RISK, AND TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, NC INTERACTIVE HEREBY EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, WRITTEN OR ORAL, EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY OF TITLE, NONINFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY, QUIET ENJOYMENT, ACCURACY, OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Without limiting the foregoing, NC Interactive does not ensure continuous, error-free, secure or virus-free operation of the Service, the Software, your Account or the Game(s), and you understand that you shall not be entitled to refunds for fees based on NC Interactive's failure to provide any of the foregoing.

St??phane Lo Presti

ArenaNet

Join Date: Apr 2010

Seattle

20 Mar 2012 at 16:19 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by akelarumi

But on the other side of realism, I totally understand why they withdraw the support. This doesn't mean however it will stop working instantly on that date. It means when they make new builds or updates they won't test it on a windows 95 pc if it works. So a good change that if you still living underneath a rock in bikinibottom you can still play GW.

I just wanted to make it clear that past June 14, Guild Wars will actually no longer work on these systems.

Lykan

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

StP

R/

20 Mar 2012 at 16:46 - 57

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

20 Mar 2012 at 19:03 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

"...TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW ..."

A software company can not just say 'at your own risk' like a conman would. You really shouldn't bend over so easily.

It is just not going to happen. I just can't see Microsoft supporting IBM DOS 1.0, I mean comon, how many security patches they need to maintain to support ALL of their OSes. I think all their staff would be too busy to come up with any new products then and their technology would stand still.

No software company, in their right minds, would do that. After Aug 2014, XP would not be supported anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosyfiep

(not a fan of changing things--hate it when the bank gets taken over and changes its name ---)

At the risk of sounding philosophical, change is the only constant in this universe. As long as we still live in this same universe, we would have to change regardless of whether we like it or not.

Kunder

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2010

20 Mar 2012 at 20:38 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

"...TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW ..."

A software company can not just say 'at your own risk' like a conman would. You really shouldn't bend over so easily.

Well, the maximum extent would be the retail price of a GW game. Go ask a lawyer what their hourly rate for a lawsuit against a large corporation is and I think you will find the upgrade to Windows 2000 or later to be much more palatable.

Quote:

It just occurred to me, the box is still for sale on the shelves, and given it's position, it is still sold in reasonable numbers. With, I assume this hasn't changed, Win98/ME as a possible system on the box. Would you, or the retailers, somehow refund for the .05% that buys it and can't get it to work after the first update?

That's SOP for any product that doesn't perform to specifications, of course they will*.

*unless they get bought out by Sony.

cosyfiep

are we there yet?

Join Date: Dec 2005

in a land far far away

guild? I am supposed to have a guild?

Rt/

20 Mar 2012 at 22:08 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stéphane Lo Presti

I just wanted to make it clear that past June 14, Guild Wars will actually no longer work on these systems.

wow....I certianly hope you dont expect that .x% to buy gw2 (even though most of them dont have computers that meet the requirement---)...I would not upgrade JUST to play a video game.

Stolen Souls

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

21 Mar 2012 at 02:31 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosyfiep

wow....I certianly hope you dont expect that .x% to buy gw2 (even though most of them dont have computers that meet the requirement---)...I would not upgrade JUST to play a video game.

I hightly doubt anyone running those old OS's expect to be able to play GW2 on them. And I'm sure the requirements on the GW2 box will be XP or higher. If they want/expect to play GW2 (or any of the other new games coming out) on those systems they'd pretty much have to upgrade either way. :/

cosyfiep

are we there yet?

Join Date: Dec 2005

in a land far far away

guild? I am supposed to have a guild?

Rt/

21 Mar 2012 at 04:00 - 62

they have already stated that the requirements for gw2 are xp sp2 or higher...but just think about this:
I have 2 computers I like to play on, one is current (let's say 7) and the other is me (use it mainly for office/homework type stuff--but runs gw ok)....now let's say I was thinking about getting gw2....only one of my computers will be able to run it

do I really want to get a new game that I cant run on both of my computers?

or
a family: parents and kids playing....3 or 4 people (dad and son and son)....dad has been working on an older version since he only plays with his kids (they bought it for him to play with them)...will dad be getting a new computer so he can play with his kids gw2???? (will dad be buying gw2 for them?).

I just think its not a good idea to exclude ANY of your potential consumer base.

ruk1a

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2008

UR MOM LOL

ATTACK OF THE KILLER TOMATOES

A/

21 Mar 2012 at 05:58 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mintha Syl

Uhm I really wonder what those important features will be..hope good ones but can't think of anything.

And yeah...ME and 98 I can almost understand but 95...really?:P I think you get hardly any support from any program at all for that stuff...

I don't think you can get support for any of those old OS lol... no idea why anyone would still use it. You can buy a digital copy of xp or something for fairly cheap nowadays.

Sirius-NZ

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

Bellevue, WA (I know ... but I moved out of NZ)

Xen of Onslaught

D/

21 Mar 2012 at 06:49 - 64

If you buy a game off a shelf that you think will work and find it doesn't, yes, I believe in most countries you're entitled to return it for a full refund. This isn't likely to be a big deal since I'm pretty sure they don't sell a lot of games to people running Win9x.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosyfiep

I just think its not a good idea to exclude ANY of your potential consumer base.

If there weren't a cost to including them, it wouldn't be - but there is (extra development time), and companies are forced to make tradeoffs like this all the time. The technological tail-end of PC users is most likely either not interested in gaming (or else they'd be upgrading anyway because they're facing this problem with every other game too) or don't have any money, so catering to them doesn't make a lot of business sense unless the extra effort is minimal. For GW2 especially, it isn't.

If you get caught in the fallout from this, well, I guess you have some tough decisions to make... such is life.

Also, the number of people who have the hardware to run GW2 but not a new enough version of Windows is vanishingly small. Those kinds of PCs didn't ship with Windows 9x (it'd be XP at bare minimum), and anybody brave enough to put it on them (good luck getting the hardware to work) is probably not averse to dual-booting something newer anyway.
There are more people with neither the hardware nor the OS to support GW2, but they're just plain out of luck unless ArenaNet wanted to make the game engine scale down ridiculously far, which would hurt its ability to scale up - to the audience that would like the game to look good, which is far bigger.

betterjonjon

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2006

Knights and Heroes [Beer]

Mo/

21 Mar 2012 at 06:57 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

If you buy a game off a shelf that you think will work and find it doesn't, yes, I believe in most countries you're entitled to return it for a full refund. This isn't likely to be a big deal since I'm pretty sure they don't sell a lot of games to people running Win9x.

If there weren't a cost to including them, it wouldn't be - but there is (extra development time), and companies are forced to make tradeoffs like this all the time. The technological tail-end of PC users is most likely either not interested in gaming (or else they'd be upgrading anyway because they're facing this problem with every other game too) or don't have any money, so catering to them doesn't make a lot of business sense unless the extra effort is minimal. For GW2 especially, it isn't.

If you get caught in the fallout from this, well, I guess you have some tough decisions to make... such is life.

Also, the number of people who have the hardware to run GW2 but not a new enough version of Windows is vanishingly small. Those kinds of PCs didn't ship with Windows 9x (it'd be XP at bare minimum), and anybody brave enough to put it on them (good luck getting the hardware to work) is probably not averse to dual-booting something newer anyway.
There are more people with neither the hardware nor the OS to support GW2, but they're just plain out of luck unless ArenaNet wanted to make the game engine scale down ridiculously far, which would hurt its ability to scale up - to the audience that would like the game to look good, which is far bigger.

This. There are also a ton of things that without a huge amount of effort can't be added to the game if they allow it to be run on most of the older OS'. Yet again this leads to being inefficient time/cost wise. As someone who has to save up for a long time everytime I want to update my computer I have no sympathy for anyone who "can't" or won't. Honestly if you feel that way you probably shouldn't be buying and playing new games anyway(commence whining about elitism).

Stolen Souls

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

21 Mar 2012 at 10:26 - 66

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosyfiep

they have already stated that the requirements for gw2 are xp sp2 or higher...but just think about this:
I have 2 computers I like to play on, one is current (let's say 7) and the other is me (use it mainly for office/homework type stuff--but runs gw ok)....now let's say I was thinking about getting gw2....only one of my computers will be able to run it

do I really want to get a new game that I cant run on both of my computers?

or
a family: parents and kids playing....3 or 4 people (dad and son and son)....dad has been working on an older version since he only plays with his kids (they bought it for him to play with them)...will dad be getting a new computer so he can play with his kids gw2???? (will dad be buying gw2 for them?).

I just think its not a good idea to exclude ANY of your potential consumer base.

If you really want the game and are excited about it, I don't see the problem with "only having one pc that can run it". :/ As for the dad example, it would be a choice the dad would have to make. Odds are he knew all along that his PC/OS were becomming dated. He can easily upgrade to XP on his computer for like $30 now (though the old hardware on it would probably not support GW2 at all/very well anyway). It isn't just GW that's like this. I can bet some Diablo fans will be in the same boat. D2 was extremely resource friendly, but I can bet D3 will not run on those dated OS's either.

To not exclude ANY potential player base, a game company would have to make its games playable on ANY OS with ANY hardware, which just isn't feesable. :/

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

21 Mar 2012 at 15:48 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

If you buy a game off a shelf that you think will work and find it doesn't, yes, I believe in most countries you're entitled to return it for a full refund. This isn't likely to be a big deal since I'm pretty sure they don't sell a lot of games to people running Win9x.

If there weren't a cost to including them, it wouldn't be - but there is (extra development time), and companies are forced to make tradeoffs like this all the time. The technological tail-end of PC users is most likely either not interested in gaming (or else they'd be upgrading anyway because they're facing this problem with every other game too) or don't have any money, so catering to them doesn't make a lot of business sense unless the extra effort is minimal. For GW2 especially, it isn't.

If you get caught in the fallout from this, well, I guess you have some tough decisions to make... such is life.

Also, the number of people who have the hardware to run GW2 but not a new enough version of Windows is vanishingly small. Those kinds of PCs didn't ship with Windows 9x (it'd be XP at bare minimum), and anybody brave enough to put it on them (good luck getting the hardware to work) is probably not averse to dual-booting something newer anyway.
There are more people with neither the hardware nor the OS to support GW2, but they're just plain out of luck unless ArenaNet wanted to make the game engine scale down ridiculously far, which would hurt its ability to scale up - to the audience that would like the game to look good, which is far bigger.

Took the words right out of my mouth but I couldn't have said this better myself.

chaosincarnate87

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

Behind You ;)

DPR

21 Mar 2012 at 16:20 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius-NZ

If you buy a game off a shelf that you think will work and find it doesn't, yes, I believe in most countries you're entitled to return it for a full refund. This isn't likely to be a big deal since I'm pretty sure they don't sell a lot of games to people running Win9x.

If there weren't a cost to including them, it wouldn't be - but there is (extra development time), and companies are forced to make tradeoffs like this all the time. The technological tail-end of PC users is most likely either not interested in gaming (or else they'd be upgrading anyway because they're facing this problem with every other game too) or don't have any money, so catering to them doesn't make a lot of business sense unless the extra effort is minimal. For GW2 especially, it isn't.

If you get caught in the fallout from this, well, I guess you have some tough decisions to make... such is life.

Also, the number of people who have the hardware to run GW2 but not a new enough version of Windows is vanishingly small. Those kinds of PCs didn't ship with Windows 9x (it'd be XP at bare minimum), and anybody brave enough to put it on them (good luck getting the hardware to work) is probably not averse to dual-booting something newer anyway.
There are more people with neither the hardware nor the OS to support GW2, but they're just plain out of luck unless ArenaNet wanted to make the game engine scale down ridiculously far, which would hurt its ability to scale up - to the audience that would like the game to look good, which is far bigger.

Exactly... I realize that people do have the older OS's but honestly... IMO, if they're going to waste the money on a game, then they should have the little money it would take to upgrade the OS to one that functions under guild wars... not to mention how EASY it is to get a free copy of a new windows OS if you feel the need to not pay for one. They really should have done this a long time ago.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

21 Mar 2012 at 20:55 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

A software company can not just say 'at your own risk' like a conman would. You really shouldn't bend over so easily.

Yet they do on a regular basis.

Licence Agreements usually spend entire paragraphs of pseudo-legalese to say one simple thing: this is our software, you can use it, just don't expect us to keep it up forever with blood bond-like involvement.

It's called "limitation of liability" in contracts, it's called "common sense" in the everyday world: software and software support are discontinued everyday because, well, they're dated and supposedly not used that much anymore to justify it.

Using a software usually implies signing/accepting an End User Agreement. That agreement often explicitly declares that service and support termination can come at any time, for any reason. You're basically reminded that you don't own the software, you're just given limited (in time and scope) access to it.

cosyfiep

are we there yet?

Join Date: Dec 2005

in a land far far away

guild? I am supposed to have a guild?

Rt/

22 Mar 2012 at 05:35 - 70

(if you work just about anywhere in the usa you do---they have you sign something that says that can fire you for NO REASON ANYTIME THEY WISH).

(and for those wondering--I was being the devil's advocate, I just wanted people to see the other side of this. My computer can handle gw2 just fine (IF I buy it). All of my current computers fit within the limitations that have been restricted for further playing as listed by stephane...)

I just hope this doesnt come back and bite anet in the opposite end.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

22 Mar 2012 at 06:10 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

You find it reasonable and common sense to enter an agreement where the other party has no obligation to you whatsoever?

They have limited obligation, and yes, it's absolutely reasonable. They're offering a service, and services are subject to modifications and even termination.

Come think of it, you're arguing about an almost non-existent (0,5%) userbase, using an ancient operative system to play a pretty old game.

You can't expect things to work forever without adjustments. Not if you also expect tech updates and support to it.

Ayuhmii Shanbwa

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

Holland

[GaMe]

Rt/

22 Mar 2012 at 23:05 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

I am not talking about GW on win98, I don't find it unreasonable that, 7 years after the game released, they are ending support fro Windows 98. I do think it's reasonable that they refund new buyers with such systems.
I am arguing against your over eagerness to put aside any sense of self-esteem and statement that it would be 'common sense' to accept that it's ok if a service is enden on a whim.

They offer a service in exchange for payment. If the payment is made the service should be delivered, that's normal, that's common sense. It's not normal, common sense or reasonable that a service that was paid for can be terminated, or modified, just like that. If you don't deliver the goods or service that was paid for you're nothing more then a conman. If for some reason you can't continue to deliver the service you were paid for you are expected, and this is common sense, to refund a reasonable, proportional part of the payment you accepted.

i'd hate it if it were win XP, as thats the only windows i like.... and works good for me

but MMO's always have their changes, like i needed a new pc just to play GW on highest graphics, and my old pc plays it..... laggy, while in the beginning it played so easily through GW on that old pc

they at least announced it before changing, so its a nice way, too

EDIT: also, face it, such things happen all the time, i hope not anytime soon (or any time at all), but it may/will happen to XP one day
and not just GW

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

23 Mar 2012 at 06:22 - 73

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

I am not talking about GW on win98, I don't find it unreasonable that, 7 years after the game released, they are ending support fro Windows 98. I do think it's reasonable that they refund new buyers with such systems.

Retailers should.

Arenanet isn't selling these boxes anymore. Anything sold directly by Arenanet will have the system requirements updated to reflect that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

I am arguing against your over eagerness to put aside any sense of self-esteem and statement that it would be 'common sense' to accept that it's ok if a service is enden on a whim.

It isn't. Limitation of liability is applied in situations like this, not "on a whim".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

They offer a service in exchange for payment. If the payment is made the service should be delivered, that's normal, that's common sense. It's not normal, common sense or reasonable that a service that was paid for can be terminated, or modified, just like that.

It's been offered for like 7 years now. It's not even terminating.

It's part of the service to receive technical updates that can break the software in some peculiar situations. 7 years is a quite long life for a software to keep up with no change at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

If you don't deliver the goods or service that was paid for you're nothing more then a conman. If for some reason you can't continue to deliver the service you were paid for you are expected, and this is common sense, to refund a reasonable, proportional part of the payment you accepted.

You're comparing goods and services. Goods and services are not the same thing.

Customers retain possession on goods, which MUST be delivered once payment is accepted, or refunded. This is not the case with services.

In this particular case tough, the service WAS delivered.

Skyy High

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: May 2006

R/

23 Mar 2012 at 18:26 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosyfiep

they have already stated that the requirements for gw2 are xp sp2 or higher...but just think about this:
I have 2 computers I like to play on, one is current (let's say 7) and the other is me (use it mainly for office/homework type stuff--but runs gw ok)....now let's say I was thinking about getting gw2....only one of my computers will be able to run it

do I really want to get a new game that I cant run on both of my computers?

or
a family: parents and kids playing....3 or 4 people (dad and son and son)....dad has been working on an older version since he only plays with his kids (they bought it for him to play with them)...will dad be getting a new computer so he can play with his kids gw2???? (will dad be buying gw2 for them?).

I just think its not a good idea to exclude ANY of your potential consumer base.

I honestly and truly can't tell if you're serious anymore.

June Bug

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2008

W/

23 Mar 2012 at 18:42 - 75

From what I see WoW does not support Windows 98 anymore. How did Blizzard deal with it? They have a gigantic player base, maybe with a lot of people with old computers.

=HT=Ingram

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

Anchorage Alaska

Haz Team [HT]

R/W

23 Mar 2012 at 22:33 - 76

As I can understand the transition, I believe it is so they can make better use of the NCSoft launcher system as a portal... much like steam, ms marketplace, and Orion does... Then that allows better access to the micro transaction carts for their arenanet games. This leads me to believe now that GW will still exist for at least a little while after the launch of GW2. If they wereremoving support for XP that would be another thing cause even windows 7 has some issues when playing ANY games on older equipment (but on XP those games work fine). I will buy GW2 but I will not be able to play it at all prob for a year or so. They have their specs WAY WAY WAY higher then GW and as such I can only hope to continue playing the original till they turn off the servers. After that, IDK, feels like suicide on that day. the loss of characters that have been in game since the beginning will be heartbreaking... ;/

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

24 Mar 2012 at 09:21 - 77

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

I am not, if I pay for a service, or a subscription, I expect it will be delivered. If only half of it is delivered, I find it reasonable to expect compensation.

So, how to quantify a "full" service? When I bought the game in 2005, I surely wasn't expecting to be playing it in 2012 still...

Even if the game runs for just a single day and then is discontinued permanently, service has been delivered to you. Sure if that was the case, Anet would have some serious credibility issues (and legal consequences as well), which would obviously bother them more than refunding like 3000 people still running Win9x.

That's why I brought common sense into play. You can't really expect a service to be run for ever just because you paid for it once, as much as a company can't suppress it unreasonably "on a whim", like in the (admitedly extreme) example above.

Com'on, this is not the case and you know it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

It's still being sold, for those who just bought it it is not delivered yet.

As far as I know, boxed games aren't printed anymore. So let's assume some retailers still have copies for sale.

Two case scenario:

- Guild Wars is bought through digital delivery channels. Most of those do not list Win9x as a supported platform in the system requirements since like 2 years. Just to say, Steam is likely unsupported on these old platforms as well, so requirements are dictated by the Steam launcher anyway. System requirements listed on those delivery channels like GameFly that still mention 9x as a supported platform will be updated accordingly and even then, this announcement serves as a disclaimer for those considering the purchase in the meanwhile.

- A residual, boxed game with outdated system requirements is bought through a retailer. In that case, it's the retailer who should refund the purchase, as he should have got rid of the boxes and returned them.

Omar Charrbane

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2011

Imperium Von Aurion

W/E

24 Mar 2012 at 19:49 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

I concur. I have zero tolerance for that sort of invasive garbage. As much as I have enjoyed GW over the years, I'd quit immediately if they added something like that.

How would one know, do they have to display is somewhere obvious or will it be hidden on like page 34 of the EULA?

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Uhh what?
If Guildwars 2 doesn't come in a box that I can pick up at EB/Gamestop...
I'm not buying it.

AmoebaInfectionTechnique

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2008

24 Mar 2012 at 21:00 - 79

I worship those who still runs windows 95 in 2012.

AngelWJedi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2008

orlando,florida

Society of Souls [Argh]

Rt/E

24 Mar 2012 at 22:58 - 80

what?! it doesnt come in a box?! wth..then what would you do if something goes wrong..least box verson you can snap pics of the info o.o