american hour -- pvp == totally dead, and virutally impossible to get enough guests.
u face like 3 guilds that play, and henchways, and we all know henchmen are pretty bad.
- ask anet to bring back heros, so we have more guilds gvgin/ha'in.
bring back HEROs to pvp
TkDj
Nightfally
I'd love to have heroes back for atleast Zelite. So hard to find a group of people for that.
MithranArkanere
This has been suggested before.
I wouldn't be against them being back for skirmishes in the PvE-ish PvP (Zaishen challenge and elite), I would even improve Skirmishes so players could make Skirmishes choosing the area and the rules (e.g.: a HA King of the Hill Hall of Heroes skirmish , or a 4vs4 Annihilation Deldrimor arena skirmish), and bringing heroes there.
But the last thing we need is turning HA and GvG into another HB, and bringing back full hero parties there would practically do that.
I wouldn't be against them being back for skirmishes in the PvE-ish PvP (Zaishen challenge and elite), I would even improve Skirmishes so players could make Skirmishes choosing the area and the rules (e.g.: a HA King of the Hill Hall of Heroes skirmish , or a 4vs4 Annihilation Deldrimor arena skirmish), and bringing heroes there.
But the last thing we need is turning HA and GvG into another HB, and bringing back full hero parties there would practically do that.
TkDj
for gvg - its impossibble to bring full hero parties and win,
for ha - meh.
for ha - meh.
Lanier
maybe they could put a limit the number of heroes in a party for gvg/ha? Like instituting a 2 or 3 or 4 hero limit or something.
tealspikes
The old limit was 4, but the more heroes you bring to GvG the less you would win typically. It wasn't like HA where the enemy was stuck with you in a closed, tight environment against annoying tease bots, and couldn't split. But if more people are playing because of this, I guess you will both win and lose more in the long run. At the very least they should fix the henchmen bars, so terrible.
lemming
Would people in the PvEer rating brackets (<1050) really enjoy getting beat up on by hero teams?
Missing HB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lemming
Would people in the PvEer rating brackets (<1050) really enjoy getting beat up on by hero teams?
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If i can conceive that players find boring to have heroes every matchs, i think a game that looks active is better than a game that is inactive..
Heroes would just be a way to have some fun and have matchs easily... So, obviously, the easiest solution to not annoy everyone would be to have only one format with heroes :
- HB : the easiest solution
- Codex : would make the format played and not synced for once in 3 years almost
- Zaishens Challenges at least
I'm still finding pathetic that they introduced 7 heroes in PvE to help party formation, but that there isn't any single place in PvP we can do the same, it makes no sense..
Last but not least, heroes are probably the only solution to not make the PvP completly synced and abused after GW2 release... Besides, noone will care at that time, and some guys will sync Fame/Champion titles so easily, it will be a huge joke...I personnaly didn't really appreciate when some guys did get my commander title in a few days thanks to RR( we were probably less than 50 in game to have it...), and i don't believe many will appreciate players gaining champion 6-7 in the same way...
Jeydra
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lemming
Would people in the PvEer rating brackets (<1050) really enjoy getting beat up on by hero teams?
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/signed.
MithranArkanere
Heroes can use a few builds more efficiently than players. Spammable builds work particularly well with them.
That made people give them those builds, and even bring them instead players for those roles.
Yet for anything else they didn't use heroes.
So, instead filling 'holes' in the team when not enough people was found, teams were being made considering the heroes brought.
To have more people in PvP, replacing them with heroes won't be a solution.
Being more "casual-friendly" would be the solution.
Look at any FPS game.
You choose a server, you jump in anytime, play as much as you want, do stuff on your own without having to worry much about tactics or team building because anyone clearly knows the objectives and can leave anytime.
Yet there's still 'championships' and more organized matches.
Because of that, I strongly believe that there should be both team-formed and random-party versions of each Battle isles PvP mode.
The team formed would be automated tournament ones, that always require paying to enter, from the panel in the Guild Hall (or talking to an NPC in the respective outpost). People would practice for those tournaments with skirmishes, after any battle isles PvP mode can be replicated with skirmishes.
The random formed would be the ones you join by pressing the "join" button in outposts. The team you get would be random on each match, and each win and match counts by itself.
So if you want to choose your team mates, you go for the tournament version, and if you just want to jump in and have fun, you join the random version.
That would work better than adding heroes.
That made people give them those builds, and even bring them instead players for those roles.
Yet for anything else they didn't use heroes.
So, instead filling 'holes' in the team when not enough people was found, teams were being made considering the heroes brought.
To have more people in PvP, replacing them with heroes won't be a solution.
Being more "casual-friendly" would be the solution.
Look at any FPS game.
You choose a server, you jump in anytime, play as much as you want, do stuff on your own without having to worry much about tactics or team building because anyone clearly knows the objectives and can leave anytime.
Yet there's still 'championships' and more organized matches.
Because of that, I strongly believe that there should be both team-formed and random-party versions of each Battle isles PvP mode.
The team formed would be automated tournament ones, that always require paying to enter, from the panel in the Guild Hall (or talking to an NPC in the respective outpost). People would practice for those tournaments with skirmishes, after any battle isles PvP mode can be replicated with skirmishes.
The random formed would be the ones you join by pressing the "join" button in outposts. The team you get would be random on each match, and each win and match counts by itself.
So if you want to choose your team mates, you go for the tournament version, and if you just want to jump in and have fun, you join the random version.
That would work better than adding heroes.
Loki Seiguro
No thanks. You can bring heros to Zishen elite.
If you bring heros to GvG, HA, or Codex then its just all heroway. Mesmers that can rupt everything etc.
If you bring heros to GvG, HA, or Codex then its just all heroway. Mesmers that can rupt everything etc.
Spiritz
This is going to seem daft but way i see it - theres already enough complaints of bots in pvp - imagine then the pvp bots with heros - or even the hero scenario from loki.
Anet removed heros from pvp for a reason ( or several reasons ) - and to bring them back will probably be the final straw for pvp.It would go from player vs player to heros vs heros , why bother pugging when you have heros.And there we see pugging becoming extinct - may even end up with pure mes teams vs pure mes teams
Anet removed heros from pvp for a reason ( or several reasons ) - and to bring them back will probably be the final straw for pvp.It would go from player vs player to heros vs heros , why bother pugging when you have heros.And there we see pugging becoming extinct - may even end up with pure mes teams vs pure mes teams
tealspikes
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lemming
Would people in the PvEer rating brackets (<1050) really enjoy getting beat up on by hero teams?
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Heroes aren't difficult to beat. It would give the 8-man casual teams easy wins and boost their confidence. Of course many of those PvE teams wouldn't be there in the first place without heroes.
Wika Sham
Idk, the curses and fire henchies spread around more pressure than a human ever could..
Missing HB
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Originally Posted by Spiritz
This is going to seem daft but way i see it - theres already enough complaints of bots in pvp - imagine then the pvp bots with heros - or even the hero scenario from loki.
Anet removed heros from pvp for a reason ( or several reasons ) - and to bring them back will probably be the final straw for pvp.It would go from player vs player to heros vs heros , why bother pugging when you have heros.And there we see pugging becoming extinct - may even end up with pure mes teams vs pure mes teams |
Let's consider warcraft/starcraft : i decide where to send my units , i can just leave them there in auto attack( a + click)if i want to... but that's still considered as PvP, and there's even esports on it. Then, i have to micro myself if i want to get better, but that's the same case for heroes battles...
Actually, they introduced 7 heroes in PvE because, as you probably know, many places are completly empty . There were already henchmean helping to play, but they still changed it with 7 heroes... That's quite sad that there isn't even a place where you can fight a friend with 7 heroes no ?
jazilla
It would be nice just to have it for scrimmages against friends. my friends and i would totally fight each other 1v1 with 7 heroes each in the GH.
Franco Power
Heh, I think they should do this. Top gvg teams are already using Mesmer/Ranger bots any way and who is this going to hurt? With Guild Wars 2 on the way the game is going to be even more dead then it already is.
People are complaining that then everyone would be playing heroway, who is everyone ? Teams already playing GvG will not replace they're players with heroes, new teams forming in HA with a couple of heroes would not be a bad thing considering how dead the place is and how it's pretty much "fame farmed" by a few guilds at the moment. This would encourage new players who perhaps haven't made 8 solid friends with enough activity to play join PvP.
And the people complaining that it would stop people pugging because they can use Heroes, wth are you talking about? Who pugs GvG? Some people guest but they usually already know who they are playing with, pug HA ? 10 bucks says most people here that would pug HA would get farmed in Underworld, Codex Arena is deserted and you can't pug/form groups in RA, so, not sure what you're talking about.
Don't object to something without giving a reason or a valid reason as it doesn't add anything to the discussion
/signed
People are complaining that then everyone would be playing heroway, who is everyone ? Teams already playing GvG will not replace they're players with heroes, new teams forming in HA with a couple of heroes would not be a bad thing considering how dead the place is and how it's pretty much "fame farmed" by a few guilds at the moment. This would encourage new players who perhaps haven't made 8 solid friends with enough activity to play join PvP.
And the people complaining that it would stop people pugging because they can use Heroes, wth are you talking about? Who pugs GvG? Some people guest but they usually already know who they are playing with, pug HA ? 10 bucks says most people here that would pug HA would get farmed in Underworld, Codex Arena is deserted and you can't pug/form groups in RA, so, not sure what you're talking about.
Don't object to something without giving a reason or a valid reason as it doesn't add anything to the discussion
/signed
lemming
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
The fairer question is, would people in the PvEer rating brackets (<1050) really enjoy not playing more than getting beat up on by hero teams?
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Jeydra
I don't think your answer answered the question. Yes or no?
superraptors
just let the game die? is it that hard? or would you rather play some defensive hero shit all day? remember tease mesmers? do people actually find playing with/against heroes fun?
and tombs died 5 years ago.
gonna have to give you a -1 for this suggestion.
and tombs died 5 years ago.
gonna have to give you a -1 for this suggestion.
lemming
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
I don't think your answer answered the question. Yes or no?
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Missing HB
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Originally Posted by superraptors
just let the game die? is it that hard? or would you rather play some defensive hero shit all day? remember tease mesmers? do people actually find playing with/against heroes fun?
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Then, if it's about heroes themselves, let's use henchmen from Heroes Ascent or Guild Hall. I don't guess these are really overpowered.... I think players would even be satisfied being able to take 7 zaishen henchmen to go in..
@ last posts : let's make a poll to see if players would rather have no opponents than heroways then ?
Elnino
Instead of reintroducing heroes into pvp, why not let each of the current henchmen have 2/3 different, viable builds for us to choose from. This way there's a little more flexibility when running henchmen teams and none of the abuse that will surely come along with heroes.
Or we could just bring back those formats people used to play when there weren't enough people online to gvg/ha...................
Or we could just bring back those formats people used to play when there weren't enough people online to gvg/ha...................
Auron of Neon
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Originally Posted by Missing HB
It's not about playing any crap heroway, it's just about being able to do something quick and fun at anytime when i have less than 3 friends online
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If you want more, lower-quality games, heroes are definitely the way to go. If you want higher quality games, by any definition, heroes are not. They effectively destroy what is supposed to be PvP by adding PvE mobs in - they have their flaws and perks, just as any AI boss mob in PvE does, but the skill interaction and hellacious gimmicks people bring on hero bars drive any PvP match with heroes into the ground.
Basically it's what lemming is alluding to - if the PvP match has heroes, it might as well not be a PvP match. It's not fun, it's not engaging, it's barely even PvP. At that point, simply not playing is a better option.
InStars
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Originally Posted by Nightfally
I'd love to have heroes back for atleast Zelite. So hard to find a group of people for that.
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Missing HB
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Auron of Neon
Heroes did not make PvP fun. Split-second interrupts on every spell, hero bars with 3-4 enchant strips to keep all ele attunes down, flawless hex spreading with no duplicate/wasted hexes on a target, flawless minion summoning (in metas with minions, which was most of them when heroes were around).
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What the OP says isn't about replacing 2 henchs by 2 heroes, but the ability to go in with 7 heroes/henchs. Obviously, the first option wouldn't do anything toward inactivity...
But anyway, if it's about heroes being too OP( although they're not, and i know what i'm talking about : only half a dozen of players did manage to beat my build that had exactly 0 heal, too bad if players just want to run the same build over and over and call what they lose to overpowered...), i guess then taking those henchmen they addes would be cool ...
Sankt Hallvard
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lemming
Would people in the PvEer rating brackets (<1050) really enjoy getting beat up on by hero teams?
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There aren't any new pve'ers trying gvg. (I found the link you provided on guru with the guy teaching qstepping hilarious.) The plug in the bottom of the ladder has been pulled a long time ago. Now there are a handful of ladderguilds like my own and the same amount of smurf/reformers who start new guilds, farm them up, start losing to the true top 20 guilds, disband, repeat and feel good about themselves because after all their win:loss ratio is impressive.
Heroes destroyed pvp years ago, but now there's nothing left to destroy so who cares?
tealspikes
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Auron of Neon
Basically it's what lemming is alluding to - if the PvP match has heroes, it might as well not be a PvP match. It's not fun, it's not engaging, it's barely even PvP. At that point, simply not playing is a better option. |
The ones who would rather not play than play with heroes are either top players (which this change has little effect on) or the folks who left the game already. Who will this change scare away? Potentially some anti-hero players in the mid-level GvG? Oh wait, the mid-level doesn't really exist anymore. Low level players? Not only are they few in number currently, they're the ones with the thin guest list and the excruciating wait times, the ones who are forced to utilize henchmen on a regular basis, and the ones who are already accustomed to fighting against henchmen every other match.
Jeydra
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Originally Posted by lemming
I think that the answer is closer to yes, but I'm not sure.
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Listen to the players who are in the < 1050 rating bracket on this one. Conduct a poll, if you will. See the results.
Elnino
I think it's amazing that people seem to neglect that this would affect HA aswell.
Reverend Dr
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jeydra
I think your answer is wrong.
Listen to the players who are in the < 1050 rating bracket on this one. Conduct a poll, if you will. See the results. |
Jeydra
Or maybe they'd say one thing and then accuse ANet of being retarded for ever making the opposite decision.
Missing HB
We can't deny the fact that the PvP population drop occured right after they removed heroes from PvP and deleted TA/HB though ( especially along months)..
Besides, i don't see how an inactive format could be better as a format with just heroes parties.. :
- if it's fun, then there will be lot of players
- if it's boring, then there will be no activity ( same as today )
If nothing is done at worse, then they should just ban those players abusing match manipulation... If noone can enter formats, why should someone using 6 accounts be able to do so and get his hero title that way ?
Besides, i don't see how an inactive format could be better as a format with just heroes parties.. :
- if it's fun, then there will be lot of players
- if it's boring, then there will be no activity ( same as today )
If nothing is done at worse, then they should just ban those players abusing match manipulation... If noone can enter formats, why should someone using 6 accounts be able to do so and get his hero title that way ?
superraptors
thats why this game has been dead for so long, kids that still want to play with ai rather than players.
lol @ saying pvp population dropped after they removed heroes, population dropped well before removal, it already started dropping rapidly during late 6v6 HA and early when eotn was released and several other periods.
and using titles as an argument is utter fail.
lol @ saying pvp population dropped after they removed heroes, population dropped well before removal, it already started dropping rapidly during late 6v6 HA and early when eotn was released and several other periods.
and using titles as an argument is utter fail.
Qing Guang
Iunno, I could see heroes maybe breathing a little life back into Codex Arena.
TkDj
i have no problem playing with real people, just theres like 4 guilds that play, and its very very hard to find enough guests, and particularly those willing/can monk.
N E D M
why have heroes on my pvp char if i cant use em
bring em back in some way
bring em back in some way
Missing HB
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Originally Posted by TkDj
i have no problem playing with real people, just theres like 4 guilds that play, and its very very hard to find enough guests, and particularly those willing/can monk.
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On GvG you need on theory 2 players to play the format, and it's not really a consecutive wins system, so it's still playable.. On the other hand, for places like HA/Codex or AB, i let you count the number of required players to make the place at least look active..
Shalazar
I like this idea since if you just go to HA looking for a group it is unplayable. Even on the zaishen combat day when I tried to find a group a year ago nobody would take me since I was unranked. As you can tell by the "year ago" that sort of thing leaves such a bad taste that you never go back.
Even if a person with a hero team is really at a disadvantage maybe the super pro r999999 team might screw something up and forget to steamroll the nooby so hard they never come back.
Even if a person with a hero team is really at a disadvantage maybe the super pro r999999 team might screw something up and forget to steamroll the nooby so hard they never come back.
Azazello
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Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard
This proves top players/tk members/game balancers have lost all touch with reality. My guild is at 1031 rating atm and we've done nothing but gvg for 6 years. Same goes for the other guilds in the alliance, all in "pveer rating brackets". The only cases of pveers doing gvg that I know about is rating 800 for legit games and rating 200 with all the resign/forfeit bs.
There aren't any new pve'ers trying gvg. (I found the link you provided on guru with the guy teaching qstepping hilarious.) The plug in the bottom of the ladder has been pulled a long time ago. Now there are a handful of ladderguilds like my own and the same amount of smurf/reformers who start new guilds, farm them up, start losing to the true top 20 guilds, disband, repeat and feel good about themselves because after all their win:loss ratio is impressive. Heroes destroyed pvp years ago, but now there's nothing left to destroy so who cares? |
On topic: I'd like to see hero teams for AB, it's not like anyone plays it or even took it seriously when it did get played.