What is considered "Undead" - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Zodiak

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Gatineau, Qc, Canada

Kiss of Anguish [KISS]

P/W

09 Jan 2006 at 13:41 - 1

What is considered "Undead"?

I just purchased a +20% Deathbane pommel, which does +20% to Undead right? But I noticed there is a Skeletonslaying mod also.

So making asumptions, Skeletons should be Undead right? Also, shoudnt technically Everything in the Underworld and Fissure be considered Undead?

This Comprising the "Shadows" and various black knight dudes and monsters?

Also About the Dwarfslaying mod

I know this involves dwarves (lol), but it does also affect Dolyak and whatever monsters Dwarves ride on correct?

Thank you for your time

Former Ruling

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Cedartown, Georgia

R/

09 Jan 2006 at 13:49 - 2

If you are unsure if their undead, try to get them to bleed.

As for Dwarves, yes everything is effected. "Dolyak master" isn't the name of the animal - its the name of that little bitty guy riding the animal lol.

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

09 Jan 2006 at 15:21 - 3

Skeletons and Undead are two different categories.

jray14

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

NC, USA

Ohm Mahnee Pedmay [Hoom]

09 Jan 2006 at 15:29 - 4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

If you are unsure if their undead, try to get them to bleed.

Um, lots of monster types besides Undead are immune to bleeding (Ice Golems, Jades, Shadows, etc.). The best way to be sure is to hit them with holy damage and see whether it's doubled.

I've always assumed that Skeletons are a subset of Undead (where Undead includes other stuff like minions and Grasping Ghouls), and that consequently the Skeletonslaying mod is just silly, but I haven't tested that assumption.

Zodiak

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Gatineau, Qc, Canada

Kiss of Anguish [KISS]

P/W

09 Jan 2006 at 15:36 - 5

Um... I'm preatty sure Ghouls are undead (type of monster that usually acompany undead) and I think they bleed

Nobody I have seen can give me a straight answer, making it preatty hard for me to know the use of what I paid for.

Shadows have no flesh so they shoudnt bleed. But technically everything in the underworld and fissure should be undead, since it had to die to get there right?

And skeletons are undead, shoudnt that it be considered just as a sub-category to undead?

jray14

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

NC, USA

Ohm Mahnee Pedmay [Hoom]

09 Jan 2006 at 16:11 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiak

Um... I'm preatty sure Ghouls are undead (type of monster that usually acompany undead) and I think they bleed

Yep, you're right. I used sloppy wording in my post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiak

Shadows have no flesh so they shoudnt bleed. But technically everything in the underworld and fissure should be undead, since it had to die to get there right?

Shadows cannot bleed, but they are not Undead since holy damage does not do double damage to them. (I have tested this many times). Skeletons in FoW are Undead though.

I stand by my initial suggestion: Just equip any spells that do Holy damage (swap secondary to Mo and try some smiting). Double damage = undead, regular damage = not undead.

Caged Fury

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Hearts Of Fury [HoF]

09 Jan 2006 at 16:50 - 7

Skeletons are a sub-class of Undead. Therefore mods that does additional damage to undead will work on Skeletons, Gouls, etc. Whereas, the Skeletonslaying mod will only give the damage bonus against skeletons.

As for what are considered as Undead, here is a link:

http://www.guildwiki.org/wiki/Category:Undead

The one Casey Squid

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

The Northeast

Knights Of Thulcandra [KoT]

W/E

10 Jan 2006 at 15:44 - 8

Executioners bleed and there undead

Zodiak

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Gatineau, Qc, Canada

Kiss of Anguish [KISS]

P/W

10 Jan 2006 at 21:29 - 9

Yeah they look preatty undead at least. or maybe just smelly lol

ShadowStorm

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Take me where I cannot stand.

The Better Part of Valor

W/N

11 Jan 2006 at 08:36 - 10

There are 3 types of Undead in Guild Wars.

1) Skeletons. This includes the Skeleton enemies that you can't make bleed and all Necromancer Summoned Minions. These leave no corpses behind and cannot be affected by conditions that cause health degeneration.

2) Zombies. This includes the Executioners, Zombie Warlocks, Grasping Ghouls, Necrid Horsemen, and Damned Clerics. All five of these Undead leave corpses behind and can suffer from bleeding poison and disease.

3) Etheral Undead. This includes all Ghosts, Specters, Phantoms, Shadows, Shades, etc. These leave no corpses behind and cannot be affected by conditions that cause health degeneration.

Technically there is a fourth category, but that category includes only 1 enemy in the game: The Lich.

Edit: Added Damned Cleric to the second undead type. Thanks to Fyre Brand for this information. I forgot about the clerics too it seems. Got confirmation on the Necrid Horsemen. Thanks to Carinae Dragonblood for the confirmation.

Zodiak

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Gatineau, Qc, Canada

Kiss of Anguish [KISS]

P/W

11 Jan 2006 at 13:46 - 11

I'm happy with that responce

That being said, Deathbane seems to be THE most WIDE-RANGED selective damage based upgrade there is

Personally, the best for an offhand dedicated weapon

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

11 Jan 2006 at 14:52 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caged Fury

Skeletons are a sub-class of Undead.

Can anyone confirm this? I found this on another site, which lists Skeletons as a different class than undead.

http://gw.coldfront.net/index.php/content/view/302/77/

I would find it very odd that they would make skeletons a subclass of undead, since there is a separate weapon mod for it.

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

11 Jan 2006 at 14:58 - 13

It looks like Barazur did a test way back when to test the skeletons versus undead theory, and he concluded from his test that skeletons ARE undead, making the skeletonslaying mod somewhat worthless.

I have both, and will test them soon. I'll post my results later, using a sample size much larger than Barazur's.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...eletons+undead

Zodiak

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Gatineau, Qc, Canada

Kiss of Anguish [KISS]

P/W

11 Jan 2006 at 15:44 - 14

Well it woudnt make much sense if Skeletons WERENT undead. However, I do see ALOT MORE skeletonslaying mods popping up

Perhaps the Deathbane upgrades are simply harder to come by and more rare. I know I had to ask around for a LONG TIME before I could find a +20% Deathbane sword upgrade

If this is all true though, it would undesputibly make Deathbane, the ALL AROUND most versitile selective damage upgrade in the game since it affects so much and that there is so much "Undead" in the game

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

11 Jan 2006 at 15:55 - 15

I absolutely agree, Zodiak, but I don't believe that the deathbane mods are any more rare than the skeletonslaying mods from what I've seen.

That's why it doesn't make sense to have both out there, especially since both can go up to 20%.

Fyre Brand

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

Shadowlight Order [SoR]

11 Jan 2006 at 16:26 - 16

A decent Deathbane mod is extremely difficult to find. There are a fairly expensive mod to buy as well, especially compared to any other mod that deals increased damage to a monster.

I took my monk out to undeadsville last night with Shield of Judgement since the damage on it is consistant. Anything that took 100 damage was affected by holy damage. Anything that took 50 damage wasn't. Everything on ShadowStorms list (above) took 100 damage including Damned Clerics. If a Deathbane mod deals extra damage to everything that takes holy damage then every type of undead is affected. The OP will have to test the actual mod compared with a weapon that doesn't have a deathbane mod on it to verify.

ShadowStorm ~ Add Damned Clerics to #2 on that list as well.

Zodiak

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Gatineau, Qc, Canada

Kiss of Anguish [KISS]

P/W

11 Jan 2006 at 23:03 - 17

This info is the best. Someone should sticky this thread for everyone to refference to when fighting Undead

Carinae

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Inside

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

12 Jan 2006 at 21:42 - 18

You can definately raise minions from a Necrid Horsemen, so I'd count them in ShadowStorm's #2 above.

Also, what about 'Holy' Ethereal Undead? For example: Azure Shadow's that deal Holy Damage. Are they 'undead' also?

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

12 Jan 2006 at 21:54 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fyre Brand

If a Deathbane mod deals extra damage to everything that takes holy damage then every type of undead is affected.

This is the real question...I know the deathbane mod does not convert damage to "holy" damage, so I'm not sure if that's a valid comparison.

I keep forgetting to run this test...I'll do it soon, and will likely test it out on one of the Kryta missions (or maybe outside of Bergen Hot Springs).

Fyre Brand

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

Shadowlight Order [SoR]

12 Jan 2006 at 22:10 - 20

Outside bergen would be a great place because you have almost every type right out there. And if you want to test against Horsemen and anything that isn't there then you can just zone to the next area and the rest of them are just on the other side of the portal. I would love to get a +20% Deathbane axe or bow mod and try it out. If you do go test this please report back what you find out. I would be extremely interested in knowing.

And I totally agree the holy damage test doesn't really show what the deathbane mod applies to. It only shows what types of mops are affected by...... well, holy damage. haha.

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

12 Jan 2006 at 23:15 - 21

I have both a deathbane (19%) and a skeletonslaying (20% I believe) axe grip, so I should be able to run both tests pretty accurately. I'm just going to run it on a skeleton archer or something lowly as that to make absolute certain that I'm capturing the data consistently and correctly.