cons. party wide

ok, dont worry, i have my reasons for this

as you may guess from the title, i'd like to see cupcakes and such party wide, maybe let em nerf the cons. some, i dont mind, but since balance wont do much in the near future.... at least not with cons. which mostly already are insanely strong

so why do i want this? well, i dont see much use in having solo buffs with items if most people will be in GW2 soon, and most people left in GW do h/h (or just heroes) anyway

if you cant count on help much, you'd like to have some help from the game itself

other reason would be that these cannot be sold, or will be very hard to sell, as you may like honeycombs and such, so you sell user-only cons. to buy the stronger and party-wide cons. (or use the money for other uses)

but since they drop with events, i'd like to use em, too
if they would be party-wide, people would use em more often, and so they will have sweet tooth title done easier AND people who dont care or have that title already, can make good use of these events and their items

as i said: if needed, nerf em a bit, so that they wont be as strong/effective as the most expensive ones, making people still buy the stronger ones and use these weaker cons. either for title or maybe even for a small buff on them and their heroes

hope i explained my reasons well
in short:

- being able to use weaker cons. for whole team, meaning they are actually useful
- people use these more as they are effective, making sweet tooth title done easier, as they can do sweet tooth AND other titles at same time... and since its more useful they WILL do so
- then of course for those staying, it'll be a nice addition

I disagree,

Since they allowed for bringing 7 hero's the entire game can be done without help from others. That was the preparation taken for gw2 and the effect the game will loose members. The game is very doable all ready and shouldn't made easier. Only a few area's are actually hard, so lets keep them that way (and you can always use consets there). So /notsigned

None of your points have anything to do with OP's suggestion. The entire game can be done without rangers, but that's not an argument in favor of removing them.

i have no idea how you think the game gets easier (for those who find it easy) if weaker cons. would be party wide
remember that most people can do almost, if not, anything with that set of 3/4 (dont remember, i dont use em) so explain how it gets worse?

its just about making these items more useful (if they even are useful for anything but running, which already seems easy to alot)

so its NOT about the difficulty of the game, its about these items being the least useful, if useful at all

i hope its not cuz you cant handle changes, as that would be bad while playing MMO's (which i call GW right now... as its also online)

if its a big problem, plz explain

also, if the game can be done without help at all, it wont hurt the game, as most who have done all in GW, most likely go to GW2 anyway, if not, they go to other games anyway, whether this change would make it a tiny lil easier or not

hope i explained it better this time

Wow - i must be one of a few ppl who dont use cons - unless 4 leaf clovers are counted.
So far everything ive done has been conless and ive not yet felt the urge to use cons.I make consets to sell but not use them.
So making cons party wide has no use for me and i`ll guess quite a lot of others.
The only ppl i can see who need cons are sc`ers - maybe you should speak to them and get their views.

tbh, i use mine for parts which are lil harder than the easy/normal ones, like dungeons, so i have a buff on my party (with this suggestion) AND get my sugar build

as they are now, it feels like they are useless, like blue rock candies i wanna use and bday cupcakes

and if they would be too strong, i'd say: nerf em a bit
even though thats no problem, as you either buy most cons from others, or get em from events or if lucky, weekly nicholas (the traveler)

aagin: its NOT to make GW easier, its just to have a bit more use for most cons.
since most people who are doing SC's/runs lately know their ways already (so this change wouldnt do much to em), and most of em will continue doing the same whether these cons. get vparty wide or not, i thought it'd be a nice extra

again: not making GW itself easier, just adding a nice extra for these cons. by making em more useful, as most arent farmable, like the powerstones and such are, so it wouldnt do anything bad to GW, it may raise the prices from other people a bit, but thats the worst what can happen (and i only get stuff myself, unless someone wants to give em cuz he/she doesnt need em and would otherwise throw em away)

so making the sweet tooth title a bit more fun (imo) by adding some extra's which may be more useful as its party wide (or even make it "your own hero wide" for all i care)

note: i never used those consets myself, i did have the effects on me when with others, who used em, but i did everything without, or in some cases i only used honeycombs, like i do with some wanteds
so its not about me wanting GW easier, its more about the title + the extra's being also on my heroes, for fun and feels more useful to me

Problem here is, you don't need to pop cons to do ANYTHING. (exception UW, but someone has managed that without cons)

PCons are nice, sure, but they don't need extending to the whole party. You already have the standard conset which allows you to faceroll everything in the game.

IMO, party-wide cons are the cause for the current speedclear m'larkey we have.

I can't really find a viable counter argument, so i will say /signed... Some dungeons are still taking some time with heroes, i guess players will be happy having an explicit use of the items they pick up.

The point might be the consequences upon all consumables, especially bu's and other 2 prices..

problem is, that the SC-way we have in GW, wont disappear, i bet even without cons, they'd find a way
it is after all "Build Wars" so they'd find builds for heroes to SC stuff, maybe a lil harder, but that would be worse, as that would cause the SC runs to be more expensive, and so SC's would be even more popular

thats what i think, i also think that with no changes like these, which make people in general gameplay happier, that GW would be dead way earlier

i dont say that only this idea itself would save GW, but this "kind of" idea's in GW would let it stay alive for some longer

party-wide cons. would make anyone happy, and SC-ers would be happier with em, but nothing changes
if people want SC's, they'll ask whether there are cons. or not, and people who wanna play the game by themselves or with others for fun, will also keep doing so

so the only thing what could possibly change (not even sure) would be the SC prices, which may go down, as it becomes a lil easier
but i doubt that, as they already do ->speed<-clears fast enough to gain money from (talking about ingame money, of course)
so a few more cons. which may not be as good being party-wide, would do nothing to runners, and regular players, like myself, would use em for title and a nice extra buff

In many cases you do not want additional speed boosts active. This is true in speed clears, and outside of them as well. Mobs derping out due to excessive speed is irritating to deal with.

It might be nice to allow heroes to benefit from personals, either by having them consume them, or something else, but full party wide personals will create just as many problems as it will solve.

How about this: you have 8 cupcakes in invent, you click on them, your party get the buff and you consume 8 cupcakes. If you have 3 cupcakes only and you click, only three members get the upgrade.


Fair?

I like this, but is it randomly decided as to who gets them if you have less than the party size? And what if I use 3, and someone else uses 5, would they check to see if the effect is already on someone before applying?

this PLUS only being able to give your own heroes

and in order how the names are

- olias (first)
- ogden (second)
- jora (third)
- other player (fail, its not a hero)
- dunkoro (fail, as its not your hero)

but i think just your own heroes would do, even in 1 use

i dont mind, but its kinda annoying if you gotta watch 7 heroes and see if they have it (think about it, a bug could override the last used one)

either way would be fine with me, but i doubt it makes any difference

oh yea, about your idea: will you get all sweet points? cuz i wouldnt use 7 of em JUST to give my heroes each a buff and only gain 1 sweet tooth point

Firstly, only you and your heroes are affected. You'd have to trade cupcakes to your friend/pug to feed their heroes.

@Ayuhmii Shanbwa; you get as many sweet points as you consume (which is all that disappear from your stack).

Solid theorycraft is solid.

I hate consumables. They make the game less fun and serve as a crutch for players who don't want to bother to learn how to play. You're simply going to promote the use of consumables as a viable way to play the game, which I disagree with.

everyone plays his or her own ways

and i said its NOT about the cons. effects, but about the cons. targeting only yourself being rather useless, while it'll be fun (to me) if they gave my heroes something extra too

maybe for some runs (dunno about SC's) they come in handy, like movement speed increasing cons. but running is a very small part of what people in GW do

as for me, i'd just use them up at challenging places, like wanted on HM, for a small boost and sweet tooth points
but as most cons. are now, they are not even a nice extra boost to heroes

if people rather use cons. than teaming up, they wont team up much, or just not at all, even with the few party-wide cons. we now have, so that wont change, as i said

i see no bad points, just that people may do some stuff a lil faster, which may even make em play GW2 eariler, as they could need those last few dungeons

but my only reason to use em is to let my heroes work a lil bit better, and at the same time getting more sweet tooth points

and even though my own idea is best to me, i like the idea of using 1 for each hero, but also must work like honeycombs: they cannot be used if all your heroes have that certain buff on them, so that its easier to use, and more fun

hmm, now that i think about it, using 1 for each hero.... that'd be quicker sweet tooth o_O
so which would be better?
1. using 1 for you and all your own heroes (giving the amount of points once)
2. using 1 for each of your heroes (giving the amount of points 7 times)

ok, lets do nr 2, i changed my mind

its just that once Anet will do more for GW again, they will have to decide to either make this new way of using cons. (each hero getting it 1 by 1), or use the old way (1 use = all your heroes, and maybe other players and their heroes, too... which it is now)

in the end we will have to depend on Anet, whether they like to make a new way of using cons. or just use the old whole party-wide style... or none at all, but they are thinking about their community, even after GW2 release, so i think they could do it in 1 of these ways

we'll have to wait anyway, for now

/notsigned

not because I don't like your idea, since I honestly don't care, but as someone said before in this thread, there are reasons some people don't pop certain pcons in certain situations. In DoA, foes break when you have 2 speedboosts up (because they stack up until you have 33%) and I don't want to be crippled and having to run sideways the entire time because some moron popped a cupcake.

When Nightfall released I thought that dropping a consumable (wintergreen candy cane to remove dp hehe) on the face/portrait of the hero in the hero panel, will work.

I do hope you realise that there is only so much incentive Anet can give players to party together... Those being pcons and PvE skills. Do you want to kill pugging?

Shouldn't the incentive of playing together actually be..uh playing together itself? And, doesn't people pug unless they use cons and pve skills? If so it's realy sad...


Anyway I have mixed feelings about this suggestion. I hate consumables in general, but...
I must say I only use them when partied and in that case we use only the party wide ones anyway cause everybody popping one seems ridicoulous. And I use normal ones only to consume them for sweet points, when alone with h/h. In the latter case it effectively seems weird hyper boosting myself while leaving out the rest of the party, so I end up random spamming them when not even needed, as 1 out of 8 with some sweets on makes practically no difference anyway. For dp removers is even worse, I'm always the one with less dp but the only one who can have it removed, unless I waste something party wide when maybe only 2-3 heroes need it (but prob need it badly or they'll die from a touch).

So in the end, for how much I hate cons, I'd say this idea makes sense if applied with some criteria. It should only affect 1 party member per use and the target must be selected. As someone said someone popping a cons on you could do you harm in certain situations, maybe add if possible some sort of request "X want to use x on you, do you accept?" or something like this anyway.

In my books, there are about three incentives to play with a full team of humans:

1. No requirements with flagging/micro skill.
2. Access to pcons and more than three PvE skills.
3. Lulz.

1 and 3 can only go so far...

4. There are some things you just can't do with heroes?

Mainly speedclearing then. But yeh, besides that, you're pretty spot on. Besides speedclearing I have absolutely no incentive to play with other people outside of my friendslist/guild roster, by this I mean PUGing. There is nothing remotely fun or interesting about carrying a bunch of bad players through an area I don't even like. And anything outside of UW and DoA can be easily done with 7 heroes, usually even better with heroes than with players.

4. You can split your team.

5. You have more people to carry stuff (e.g. keg, or in Sunjiang District mission)

6. Heroes also don't get out of AoE attacks well which is why the need for flagging comes in the first place.

There are many missions that would be a lot easier with humans than with heroes because heroes need to be micro-ed in many of these cases.

For example, Eternal Grove would require you to run back and forth on both sides without humans, Divinity Coast would require you to prioritize healing on the villagers or fail the bonus, Jennur's Horde would require you to keep a lookout for spawned Margonite groups while killing the harbingers, prioritize killing the crystal carrier in Aurora Glades, etc. Heroes also can't have celestial skills. Heroes would kill the Sunspear ghosts in Jokanur Diggings mission, destroying your bonus, if they have the chance. In Moddok Crevice where you need to cripple the 2 runners, it is tricky to do it with heroes especially in HM.

Points 4, 6 and the WoT after that is all summarised in my first point.

I'll give you point 6, but for point 4, flagging alone is not going to help much in Eternal Grove since enemies can also come from north or south. You also need to prioritise killing turtles if you want bonus. You also need to watch out for luxons sneaking past you. So spliting the team is much more than just flagging.

In other words, it is hard to do this alone with just heroes in HM Eternal Grove with bonus.

Are you telling me you can't 7H Eternal Grove?

I didn't say it is impossible, I said it is harder than doing it with a PUG. Since I have done it myself it is certainly possible.

The problem with this forum is whenever someone says something is "harder", people always imply the word to mean "impossible".

So, better hero micro skill is called for, which isn't required in a pug. I was just proving my point.

If that was what you meant, then your point 1 should be 2 seperate points because flagging heroes to minimize aoe damage and splitting the team to accomplish mission goals are entirely different issues.

thx for saying i suck
and you're prolly the only one not understanding me

how can you see my idea is a failure? you said you cant read it

english isnt my native language, yet nearly all people i met on forums and in games understand me well, maybe cuz they think about what i could mean

this topic has changed into "with heroes is harder than with other "good" players" while making cons. party-wide cant harm the game... or whats left of it, especially after GW2 release (not beta, i mean the whole game being released official)

and people who stay in GW wont care much about balances, as most teamplay is gone anyway, unless you're lucky to find a nice guild+allies

making these cons. party-wide isnt to make GW easier, but its to make the cons. themselves more useful, as i find them kinda useless if playing with others who dont use em, and when heroes cant get the buffs on them

i guess i gotta repeat it, before the topic goes all offtopic

i also said something along the lines that my reason is not to make GW easier, but to give my whole team a nice buff (which make some parts going a lil faster) and getting my sweet tooth title going up at the same time

tbh, i'm not into spamming titles to the max (although honeycombs and rainbow candy canes sometimes do that when doing the not-so-easy stuff)

and of course newbies who get GW, also will see that GW2 is much bigger and more advanced, and so once they at least get HoM at 30/50, they mostly leave

PS. i never said that everyone one day will leave, but there wont be that many people staying in GW, as they either go to GW2, or play other games
meaning that GW will get emptier with time, and so the non-balanced stuff will hurt nearly noone anymore (which it already doesnt if talking about pve (which is the only option allowing cons. buffs anyway)

The only ones I would do account-wide are the DP-removal ones.
But make them be less effective for allies.
For example, if a DP-removal item would remove 15% from you, they'll remove 5% from party members, if all DP from you, only 15% from party members.

despite having partially agreed with your suggestion, I believe you are totally wrong here. Unbalance always does harm. Not just in competitive format but also in pve, not only when the population is big but also when there''ll be the few of us left. If powercreep gets too much out of control the game collapses on itself.

this small suggestion wont do any harm to the game... or whats left of it
besides, most unbalanced stuff in pve made lots of people happier for some years now

remember when they buffed the pve-only skills? those skills did more to GW that others, especially more than what cons. did

and i repeated my reason of making all cons. party-wide, was NOT to make the game easier, which i doubt will happen as much so that GW gets too easy, as most people found builds which already do that, making the game much easier

and even if GW would become a lil easier thx to this, there wont be any troubles, as the game wont ever get enough members who destroy any kind of fun to others, cuz of imbalanced stuff for example

GW will be for lore and fun it has with certain content (not just WiK and WoC, but anything), and imbalances dont harm because GW isnt as.... "serious" as back then anymore

but as i said: this game wont become bad/overpowered/imbalanced more with this suggestion
as i said (i repeat it just once more, after that you just gotta scroll up yourself) , this idea is to make cons. useful for at least your heroes, and maybe for playerteams, and giving you sweet tooth at the same time

note: PLZ read that last part very carefully, and dont ignore that most important part just to nitpick on other parts, as doing so wont make any good points, because.... *i gave the reasons before*

no repeats anymore, plz read the bolded part carefully before criticising half posts

man, cant anyone explain it a lil better, what i mean, so that my not-so-good english wont give the wrong ideas?

I had already given my opinion on the rest, no need to repeat it, that's why focusing only on part of what you said.

First of all, despite your english not being perfect, I am able to understand what you are trying to say quite well.

Now, about the ideas you mention in the quoted post:

People who play a game will always care about balance.
In order for a game to be fun, there should be some form of difficulty and a learning curve.
If this difficulty or curve is taken away, there is no real point in playing anymore ( example of this is the prince of persia game by ubisoft back in 2008 I believe, in which they made it impossible for you to die, meaning it did not mean shit what you did, as long as you bashed any button you would eventually win).

The current partywide effects are in my opinion powerful enough as it is,
There is a reason that a lot of players consider a conset cheating already because of its powerful effects that can turn a real challenge into a walk in the park.
I already feel like Guild Wars has no challenging content anymore outside of things like Domain of Anguish and the Underworld on Hard Mode.
If all cons would be partywide you would simply farm some money, buy all cons, and kittenstomp everyone and everything with heroes having 2k health, 500 energy, 100+ armor, and 20 in all attributes.

So it actually would make Guild Wars easier by a horrifying degree, and I cannot understand why you claim that it wouldn't since it is so obvious with all the bonuses consumables give you.

Even PvE needs some form of balance.

well, as far as i see, the "challenge" you mean is not for that many people, as if it were, 7 hero would NEVER been done in the first place

and if GW already is imbalanced and too easy to certain people (not to everyone, in which i dont even count myself)
and balance VS having with with the game itself and its items.... which do you think will win, after seeing what they done to make the game more accessible? (example again: 7 hero)

a game doesnt need to be only challenging, it also should be fun to play through without thinkiing about challeneges all the time, or else its just an "elitism" game (maybe you can find a better word for a game in which people only want it to become harder and having to become much better every once in a while), which forces players to be better than they already are, while having fun in different ways can and will have a better outcome

besides, since there's not much chance you can get a whole team of players anymore (who can all use all of the cons. on themselves) we'd be needing heroes in most cases, who suck at AI as they cannot think, they just react (interrupters interrupt a stupid skill, healers heal minions etc.) the way they are programmed, and they cannot uise any kind of cons.

also, i also said "nerf if needed" but could also say "dont let similar cons. stack" , like +1 attribute items cannot stack, so that it becomes more than +1

what fun will GW have in the future, when most people who know the game now, are gone, and newer people get sick of not able to get help and have to look at pvx to get through certain areas, while they get bored by doing so?

i'm not looking at GW from now, but at GW in the future (which may be nearer than we think it'd be)

people get bored and will play GW2 or other games, then the few people left in GW, which can be a decent amount, but far from enough to teamup (with people who are like "no thx, i've done that already, dont wanna" or "i'm a solo-er")
i already barely see experienced people wanting to teamup for fun or help, guess what we'll see soon (GW2, yea)

then there's timezones (i get help from 1, who lives far away, and barely can see him on, as he's busy in rl, and i'm gone once he's free) and people who want to speed though their HoM, then go to GW2, and last be not least (depends on how you see it) the ones who play through games for 100%, and then try out other games to play through for 100%

anyway, about the suggestion and its changes in ideas of how to use em (non-stacking and each use for each hero)
this cant ever break the game, even if its stackable and 1 use = whole team, as people dont NEED to use em

if people want the game to be harder, they go HM (which is optional) and wont use any kinds of cons. (also optional)
but i've seen so many who think GW is way too easy, still using those 3 (or was it 4?) cons. as set (which are party-wide)

you see, complaining about GW being too easy, yet trying to make it even easier (to them), is asking for more challenges, while they take away their own challenges

and people who dont wanna do it without cons. or dont wanna do it the hard way, will most likely ask for runs, and those are easy to find on forums and ingame

with this suggestion, people still can play their own ways, it just gives them more options to use

the party-wide style wont give runners (solo ones) any benefits, as they already use em on themselves, and go solo (so the effects on the others, are for nothing)

so last addition to this suggestion = "make them non-stackable with same kinds of cons. example: candy corn + golden egg = + 1 in all attributes, and same with candy apple + birthday cupcake = +100 max. HP, 10 max. energy and +25% movement speed

so all effects can be used once, and wasting same types of cons. would either be impossible, or just to get sweet points (in other words, the same effects would be ignored)

would it make the game easier? a little, but still balanced enough to have fun
and those who dont want this, can ignore em, or use them for sweet tooth title, and go back into an outpost/town to avoid the "easier gameplay"

also another addition in case: make the leader only being able to use it party-wide, so that the non-leading ones only use it on themselves (and maybe only own heroes)

see? we can get far with this suggestion, as long as people make their own challenges, and dont say NO to anything others will be happy about

example i used was 7 hero, but eotn only allowed lvl 20's before, and anet thought: people getting sick of training to max lvl before they can enter eotn, lets change... and buff them

note: non-stacking also means with items + god's favor buffs

this makes it easier to balance.... but takes more time, so we'll have to see what Anet's live team thinks about it (if they ever do it in the future... still busy with GW2 atm)

So if i was using heroes and didnt want to waste cons on them because i am the only one needing them, i would be screwed cause i just wasted 7 more instead of the just the ONE i wanted. Unless they wanna add a year long consumables crafter and completely remove special event drops then it would seem fine. What you are also implying with this is that they add a completely new range of pcons for user only.

^ There that better i removed 7 words. now its nothing to do about being easy. /facepalm

reread my posts "its NOT about makiing the gamje easier, but about making the singletarget cons. more useful for at least your own heroes"

please first read all points before replying without reading what i was going to myself
sure, some people who still would play GW would use it to make stuff easier, but they seem to do fine with the cons.sets right now, so adding these wouldnt hurt much

so even if it was to make GW easier (which its not for me), it'd be no problem

people either use "blindly pvx" or "party-wide cons." then

oh wait, the word people use about pvx is steamroll, isnt it?

anyway, i just like to see better use in those singletarget cons. whether its each use = 1 more hero having it, or 1 click = all your heroes or whole party

i just like to spend my time more useful with getting sweet tooth title and do some HM stuff at the same time (not that i do much hard stuff by myself, so its not the first priority)

i also said that it feels kinda empty to me, having cons. which only buffs yourself, and not the heroes

note: i dont use pvx or cons. (except for honeycombs and rainbow candy canes at some places) to get far in the game (or as far as i could go now, with so much done)

hope i made it a bit more clear now...

I, an ele can play SoS on one gate with 3 heroes and have the other 4 flagged at the other gate and still manage master's in HM, so I fail to see how it's hard.