7 Hero Meta Build for a Necro Player?

Lialith

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2012

N/

hello there,

once long ago i played GW and came back now to play nightfall, eye of the north, and to build up my hall of monuments.

now my problem is: i'm like a total noob, never really played PvP and i am not familiar with most of the available skills. (there are SO many of them!) i had quite a hard time completing the nightfall campain just now, wile i hear most of players have no trouble to go solo even through heroic areas accompanyed by their 7 heros.

so what i am looking for is a 7 hero meta build for my nekro, capable to manage most of the areas. cause i'm realy tired of dying and failing over and over again at quests like clensing shenzun tunnels where i can't even get past the first enemy group. :/ my hero group also just fell apart at the very first underworld enemys. an other player helped me then, just took out his heros and cleaned the underworld for me to get to the spider. thats demotivating. :/

so if you could help me find a decent 7 hero meta build, that would be great!

as of now i have these heros (havent played eye of the north much jet):
3x W, 3x R, 3x Mo, 2x N, 2x Me, 3x E, 1x A, 1x Rt, 1x P, 3x D

for the moment i play my necro as minion master and take a hero necro along with me for the support. (he kills himself quite often though ^^)

Player N: Hexe's Vigor, Putrid Bile, Animate Bone Fiend, Ebon Battle Standard of Honor, Order of Undeath, Blood of the Master, Verata's Sacrifice, Masochism
Hero N: Mark of Pain, Barbs, Weaken Armor, Plague Sending, Foul Feast, Blood Bond, Blood is Power

i like playing a MM, but any build for my own character to fit the new hero group build would be perfectly fine! so if you could tell me a decent hero build that works well with a nekro as a player character, i could go and get the needed skills and missing heros to build it! and i think that would help me a lot.

Darkicon

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2006

Take It Eazy

W/

For awhile I was using the 7 Hero Player Support build at PvX:

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Player_Support

It's a pretty good build, able to clear through just about anything easily, including UW.

Lialith

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2012

N/

looks doable at first sight.
but what skills do i take with my character? since the one necro is a minion bomber i cant go as a MM.

enter_the_zone

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2007

R/

This works especially well on a necro because the e-mgmt is insane..

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_3_Hero_Discordway

Just fill in the other spots with Rits and Mesmers from the build in the post above. I'd also tweak the necro builds to be a bit more aggressive if you're using 7 heroes.

And, depending on the area, you might want to replace the SoGM rit from the 7 hero build with the ST prot rit

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Rt/any_Soul_Twisting_Hero


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lialith View Post
looks doable at first sight.
but what skills do i take with my character? since the one necro is a minion bomber i cant go as a MM.
Most places have enough corpses that you can have 2 MM's. Otherwise, I'd tend to run this

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:N/A_Mark_of_Pain_Nuker, with enfeebling blood

Frangeo Munda

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2007

Granitic crust

Killer Green Buddah

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by enter_the_zone View Post

Most places have enough corpses that you can have 2 MM's. Otherwise, I'd tend to run this

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:N/A_Mark_of_Pain_Nuker, with enfeebling blood
I'd just want to note that this DOES restrict your build to having an assassin secondary. That's fine usually, but you may wanna consider other feeder hexes for Discordway (see below).
Quick note: I'm not on my home Computer right now, so I'm salvaging the builds from GWPvX.
Ok, looking at your hero list, there's a two missing that might halp you: one necro and one rit. I'll assume, for the sake of argument, that you have gotten Razah (the rit hero from the end of NF), and not Xandra (the rit hero from EotN). Second, I would guess that you have not obtained Livia (N hero from EotN) I mention this because, quite frankly, necro and rit heroes are utterly pwn in pve. See if you can get these heroes: if not, PM me @ Portable Healy Unit and I'll provide healyservices.
I personally find running an MM on my character (i.e., not a hero) very boring, so see if you can relegate that to a hero. Heros are also quite good at managing minion support skills like Death Nova, so there's that too.
I recently completed yet another GWAMM on my Moldy Unit, and I pretty much ran one (brand of) build the entire time: an Icy Veins nuker with Discordway. As enter_the_zone mentioned, discordway is pretty much the meta for everything pve. However, it requires a quickly renewable hex and condition to work. IV works great here, as not only does it recharge quickly, but it also does damage on target's death (speeding up your kill rate). Skilling these heroes also isn't too nasty, since they all use the same elite (Discord, cap-able in Factions)
Now, what about your other heroes? Let's talk about rits. Rits are wonderful with their native spirit-wrangling abilities. Rangers can manipulate spirits somewhat, and there's one profession-independent skill, but only rits can really do as much with creating, maintaining, using, and destroying spirits. As such, I usually bring two rits:
First is an SoS/Resto rit (OACjEqiMJOXzyJGzbyMlmTuhJ is the build). This, along with the MM and heals from discord, completely replaces any monks. Poor monks. Please don't forget to feed your monks; they need love too.
My second rit is the ST rit, or as I call it, the "my monk is bored" build: OACiAyk8gNtePuwJAAA4MBAA. This build reduces incoming damage to very manageable levels (no nasty 600-hp HM spikes!). Remember that the spirits themselves are NOT under their own effects (i.e., Shelter and Union can lose more than 10% hp per hit), so it's often a good idea to watch where your hero is plopping these down. The optionals here can be energy management (Signet of Creation, mez interrupts, etc), more utility, or speed boost.
I'll finish with the final 2 heroes (Panic mez and Inept or Psychic Instability mez) later.

Markaedw

Markaedw

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

N/

I used the 7 hero markway build to complete almost all of WoC in both hard mode and easy mode

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Markway

I did switch to discordway for the final boss fight.

I also used a regular MM build for the 2 quests where I needed to lure vital NPCs away, but if you go that way, make sure you bring skills to kill minions because the NPC healers will follow you back into battle.

HigherMinion

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

N/

I'm a massive advocator of Markway. It works best when you micro splinter on both dervs, but the mobs go down soo fast you'll think you're FoWSCing. Part of the theory of kill before you get killed, really.

To compare Discord with Markway;Discord is a caster cluster team so AoE damage will screw you faster. Condition removal can potentially kill your damage (Shiverpeak Centaurs did that to me quite often) You also only have two sources of AoE damage yourself (Putrid Bile, Death Nova) apart from Mark of Pain which is only triggered by spears and minions. Not good enough when minions don't focus.

On the other hand, Markway gives your AP-MoP hexes purpose and 100x more damage capability. The great thing is you lose no single-target damage because scythes train for a lot.

But for areas where it doesn't work so well, just slap 3 mesmers and an ST rit and cspace through PvE.

Lialith

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2012

N/

thank you alot so far guys!!
i just got my two missing heroes, razah and livia (getting the razah quest done was quite hard with my current hero setup...), now lets see what skills i dont have jet. (probably all the ritu skills :/)

Sethellington

Sethellington

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

nn

N/

I got bored of my usual team set up so I tried something new today... I ran this:

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:N/Me_Feve...ms_Necromancer

and my hero team build was based around this:

http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_SFway

except take out the Fevered Dreams mes hero, since you're playing this. Then replace it with an Ineptitude mes. So all in all you have:

You N/Me FD
E/P SF
E/P SF
Rit/ SoS
Me/ Panic
Me/ Ineptitude
N/Rt Healer
N/Mo Minion Bomber Protter

If possible, wait for a mob to ball up. Cast FD on one of the central foes, then follow immediately with YMLAD! to snare them all. By this point one of your eles will have cast SF, meaning the whole mob is crippled, on fire and dazed. From here they go down in no time. Use FH! on the foe you originally targeted to get Deep Wound on the entire mob. The pressure is huge with mass blind, weakness, degen, daze, DW and a lot of direct damage. I was amazed at the survivability of the whole thing as well. Have a go, see what you think.

Lialith

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2012

N/

that sounds like a realy funn to play build sethellington! ^^

i spend my evening trying to customize your suggestions so far.
thats what i came up with.

please let me know what you think!
(didn't try it out, cause i dont have many of those skills yet. ^^)



N (Player, IV): OABBcBVzUHoAuFGTeDaT2WC
N/P (MB): OAlBYBFzcUhGsFmUpAWjtjB
N/Rt (Discord Heal): OAhAMxM7AiQaO5GmU7LG
N/Mo (MB Prot): OANB8CFzUFgGsF2ScXVPEQA
M/Rt (Dom): OQhAM0gpnpLHMEyAL/LG
M/Rt (Illu): OQhAQvArA5ZIgkAZALfXM
Rt (SoS): OACAMXzyJGTaO5GmMTvJ
Rt/M (Spirit Spamer): OAWAMYTr3jLc6MzA9gRI

Premium Unleaded

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

ST is useless with minions because they're going to eat up the spirits faster than discord's rc.

Sethellington

Sethellington

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

nn

N/

Yeah ST will fall immediately with minions - pick one or the other. Also, your team focusses very much on killing 1 enemy at a time (Discord, Necrosis, YMLAD!, FH! etc.). Meta shifted a long time ago from things like Discordway to doing a lot of damage AoE instead. The skills readily exist (ESurge, SF, Ineptitude, MoP the list goes on and on). Discordway works, but it's a lot slower killing 1 enemy at a time than 1 mob at a time and taking out the odd survivor if you see what I mean?

Lialith

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2012

N/

sorry i am not familiar with ritus, why does ST not work with Minions?

Rushin Roulette

Rushin Roulette

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2007

Right here

Ende

Soul Twisting itself is not the problem, but the spirits needed in the build loose Health every time they have to heal or reduce damage from any party member or ally. Now picture what happens if you have 8 party members plus 15-30 small mininons with health degen running around? Yup. its like trying to organize a snowball fight in Death Valley or the sahara desert .

Lialith

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2012

N/

ok, i understand... but i would prefere Discord over Markway because in a hard fight the hero group can last longer? ... but if i cant use the prot ritu, what would you suggest to put in instead?

aspi

aspi

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

eeew

N/Rt

Hi Lialith, just one thing for general PVE, AOE spells and skills are far superior over single target damage. You cannot compare general discordway(it does work in almost the entire game) to an exploding aoe like markway. Markway will mop the floor with most if not all content, while discord is slow but steady work.
I am not sure why this markway build has a lower score on pvx...

Lialith

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2012

N/

so basicly you say that this is a good way to go? :
http://www.gwpvx.com/Build:Team_-_7_Hero_Markway
thank you guys so far! i will try to setup my heros in that way.

HigherMinion

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by aspi
View Post
I am not sure why this markway build has a lower score on pvx... I can answer that: There is a voter on the build who doesn't trust physicals, and downvotes any build with them in. Bit of a bugger, since it's the best necro-specific hero team.

Sethellington

Sethellington

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

nn

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion
View Post
I can answer that: There is a voter on the build who doesn't trust physicals, and downvotes any build with them in. Bit of a bugger, since it's the best necro-specific hero team. I've yet to try it but I will for sure. Have a look at what I posted a few comments above. Try it out and see what you think. It's about as efficient as I've seen a team with a Nec primary. Seems to tick all the boxes. Will try Markway too and see what happens.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion
View Post
I can answer that: There is a voter on the build who doesn't trust physicals, and downvotes any build with them in. Bit of a bugger, since it's the best necro-specific hero team. That is probably the general distrust of melee heroes AI that we have all come to accept. Melee heroes sometimes run around doing nothing in the middle of an AoE, sometimes they get stuck, etc.

Personally, I would replace the dervishes with mesmers and just use spears on my casters to trigger MoP. But if I don't have mercs, I would replace them with a mesmer and necro.

Lialith

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2012

N/

hm...

* what i absolutely don't get is why this build uses Drain Delusions? Wouldn't the Hex Eater Signet or Inspired Hex be better instead?

* what does that mean?: 'Silencing spear of defence for Technobabble; Cruel spear of defence for "Finish Him!"'

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lialith
View Post
hm...

* what i absolutely don't get is why this build uses Drain Delusions? Wouldn't the Hex Eater Signet or Inspired Hex be better instead?

* what does that mean?: 'Silencing spear of defence for Technobabble; Cruel spear of defence for "Finish Him!"' Drain Delusions are used against enemies for energy management. It lets you remove a mesmer hex on the target foe, to get back energy.

Kind of iffy on a hex-based mesmer hero build unless you are using fast recharge hexes (e.g. Overload) or hexes that gain you a benefit upon its removal like Phantom Pain or Ether Phantom.

Silencing spear allows the wielder to extend the length of time that daze would be in effect, upon casting Technobabble. Cruel spear allows the wielder to extend the length of time that deep wound would be in effect, upon casting "Finish Him!".

Lialith

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2012

N/

ah, waepon mods ;D i didn't get that...

And for Drain Delusions: Wouldn't the Hex Eater Signet or Inspired Hex be better instead?

Premium Unleaded

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Drain delusions targets hexes on enemies.
HES & inspired targets hexes on your allies.

Different mechanics.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lialith
View Post

And for Drain Delusions: Wouldn't the Hex Eater Signet or Inspired Hex be better instead? Drain Delusions returns more energy than inspired hex and has a faster recharge because, unlike inspired hex, it doesn't get replaced with the hex that was removed for 20s.

Inspired hex would be better in areas with monster-only hexes because the skill recharges immediately since inspired hex can't be replaced by the monster-only hex that it removes.

In most general situations, however, Drain Delusions would be better than Inspired Hex on a human mesmer or a hero mesmer with a suitable skill bar.

Hex Eater Signet can be used too and it can potentially remove multiple hexes from multiple allies, but it has a much longer recharge time. In the case of Markway, you do not want the mesmers moving to the frontline just to remove hexes from the dervishes since Hex Eater Signet is touch-ranged.

HigherMinion

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu
View Post
That is probably the general distrust of melee heroes AI that we have all come to accept. Melee heroes sometimes run around doing nothing in the middle of an AoE, sometimes they get stuck, etc.

Personally, I would replace the dervishes with mesmers and just use spears on my casters to trigger MoP. But if I don't have mercs, I would replace them with a mesmer and necro. If you don't abuse MoP with VoS ,Sand Shards and Reap Impurities, you're not going to see an exploding mob, and the relevancy of MoP diminishes. But you're right, it was downvoted because he didn't test it and went with the general consensus that melee heroes suck. They can be unreliable in certain areas without micro, but in most of the game the theory of smash before you get smashed works fine.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion
View Post
If you don't abuse MoP with VoS ,Sand Shards and Reap Impurities, you're not going to see an exploding mob, and the relevancy of MoP diminishes. But you're right, it was downvoted because he didn't test it and went with the general consensus that melee heroes suck. They can be unreliable in certain areas without micro, but in most of the game the theory of smash before you get smashed works fine. Yes I have tried Markway before and it did perform well in most areas. It is a good and fun build.

I wouldn't call it a "glass cannon" but there are more melee shutdown skills and the melee AI still have some issues, so I continued on my old tried-and-true SoGM rit and ES/Mistrust mesmer. I can still trigger MoP and Splinter with casters wielding spears and minions.

Lialith

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2012

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu
View Post
Drain Delusions returns more energy than inspired hex and has a faster recharge because, unlike inspired hex, it doesn't get replaced with the hex that was removed for 20s.

Inspired hex would be better in areas with monster-only hexes because the skill recharges immediately since inspired hex can't be replaced by the monster-only hex that it removes.

In most general situations, however, Drain Delusions would be better than Inspired Hex on a human mesmer or a hero mesmer with a suitable skill bar.

Hex Eater Signet can be used too and it can potentially remove multiple hexes from multiple allies, but it has a much longer recharge time. In the case of Markway, you do not want the mesmers moving to the frontline just to remove hexes from the dervishes since Hex Eater Signet is touch-ranged. but you undo your own hexes with Drain Delusions? hm... isn't that a big downside?

aspi

aspi

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2010

eeew

N/Rt

With so many mesmer hexes in the markway build I would not worry about removing on of them.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by aspi
View Post
With so many mesmer hexes in the markway build I would not worry about removing on of them. I don't think that is what Lialith is asking about. If the mesmer hero manages to cast a well-placed Panic, and another mesmer hero Drain Delusions it for energy wouldn't that be a downside?

If you list the mesmer hexes in Markway, you have:

1. Panic
2. Mistrust
3. Shared Burden
4. Clumsiness
5. Wandering Eye
6. Fragility

If the mesmer hero happens to drain Fragility, that is probably fine since Fragility has a low cost and fast recharge. But if the mesmer hero drains one of the other mesmer hexes, then there maybe a downside. I doubt the mesmer hero AI is smart about which mesmer hexes they choose to drain.

On the other hand, it may not be as big of a drawback since these hexes should recharge quite fast with fast casting. Furthermore, hexes like Mistrust, Clumsiness, and Wandering Eye do not stay on the foe for long anyway even without Drain Delusions.

With these mesmer skill bars, there are some downside to using Drain Delusions, but it is not deal breaking. I wouldn't use Drain Delusions on these bars since there are other alternatives.

HigherMinion

HigherMinion

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2008

East Anglia, UK

Order of [Thay]

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu
View Post
I don't think that is what Lialith is asking about. If the mesmer hero manages to cast a well-placed Panic, and another mesmer hero Drain Delusions it for energy wouldn't that be a downside?

If you list the mesmer hexes in Markway, you have:

1. Panic
2. Mistrust
3. Shared Burden
4. Clumsiness
5. Wandering Eye
6. Fragility

If the mesmer hero happens to drain Fragility, that is probably fine since Fragility has a low cost and fast recharge. But if the mesmer hero drains one of the other mesmer hexes, then there maybe a downside. I doubt the mesmer hero AI is smart about which mesmer hexes they choose to drain.

On the other hand, it may not be as big of a drawback since these hexes should recharge quite fast with fast casting. Furthermore, hexes like Mistrust, Clumsiness, and Wandering Eye do not stay on the foe for long anyway even without Drain Delusions.

With these mesmer skill bars, there are some downside to using Drain Delusions, but it is not deal breaking. I wouldn't use Drain Delusions on these bars since there are other alternatives. I feel like we should move this discussion to the Markway thread, but of all the hexes you named, some are going to be impossible to Drain.

Clumsiness, Wandering Eye and Panic are all going to be triggered before the hero needs energy. Shared Burden and Fragility are fine to be stripped because they are both AoE hexes and fast recharging. Drain is single-target, so it's all good.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by HigherMinion View Post
I feel like we should move this discussion to the Markway thread, but of all the hexes you named, some are going to be impossible to Drain.
Yeah you are probably right. Chances are they won't be the ones that get drained because they don't last long.

Quote:
Clumsiness, Wandering Eye and Panic are all going to be triggered before the hero needs energy. Shared Burden and Fragility are fine to be stripped because they are both AoE hexes and fast recharging. Drain is single-target, so it's all good. Yes the downside is not as bad assuming that the hero manages to cast it on a number of nearby foes. The hero AI doesn't consider those decisions when it casts spells so I expect there will be times when Shared Burden or even Panic would be cast on single targets. But like I said, there is a downside but it is small.

Lialith

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2012

N/

i used the markway build now for some time and it works nicely most of the time. ... thank you guys! ... today i totally failed in the gate of anguish areas though... :/
is there a better build for that? or is it just not possible to do that area with heros? or should it work and i am doing something wrong?

Lialith

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2012

N/

ok, thank you!